Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 05:05 PM

I have pondered on the origins of the melody Dylan used for " The House of the Rising Sun". It has been written in many books on Dylan that he got his version from Dave Van Ronk, But, of course, Dylan might have changed it. And , of course, The Animals, got it of Dylan's first album. I love Dylan's version, the slow build up, the little folky turns in his voice. The Animals , unfortunately, took a hammer to it - talk about lack of subtlety!

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From:
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 04:44 PM

My take on this song has always been that it was kind of like "Hotel California" by the eagles- that it was about the pain of hell.. anyways thats just my opinion

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: Billy the Bus
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 01:05 AM

Whewww... Great song, with a great history!

Of the above posts, there was one that caught my eye.

Abby Sale - please expand on your message.

Did you really manage one of the four (or more) HotRS in New Orleans in 1966? If so, we could start a Rampsrt St Parade!

I can't add a sausage to this thread, but, methinks Abby can ... ;0

cheers = Sam

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jun 03 - 07:53 PM

Three years ago, Alison mentioned that the hymn, "There Is A Green Hill Far Away," had the same melody as "House of the Rising Sun."
The hymn is in Cyberhymnal, but I can't see the resemblance. Of course, there may be more than one tune used for the hymn. The tune in Cyberhymnal is right perky. Give it a listen. Green Hill

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 11 Jun 03 - 06:41 PM

Rising Sun.

As opposed to full moon.

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: GUEST,Mandrake
Date: 11 Jun 03 - 05:56 PM

More info here:

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mrisingson.html

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 29 May 03 - 12:20 AM

The tune comes from a very ancient Roman Dirge, sung by the Maidens while tipping out the Pewspots , later it was grabbed by Tweediddlums an English songwriter in the rain of K Henry 8th. This fellow was later ripped off by a Scottish chap called Wadkins. Wadkins sang a Hymn -Thee Rising Early I Pray - later bawlderised by drunken minstrels into a Jousting Song 'Faith I thee deflowered nicely'. Next mention occurs in Notcott's edition of Newcombe's Tunes for a Lute, 'a sweet refrain' probably means 'theme'. Then finaly in common circulation as a drinking song, 'Ale, riseth my heart's desires on me' and last into the above mentioned cradle song.

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 28 May 03 - 08:14 PM

Charlie, you made mention of Gen. Washington's chair awhile back on this thread. Ben Franklin made that observation about the sun after the Continental Congress approved the Constitution to be distributed among the states for ratification.

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 28 May 03 - 03:06 AM

Mine does every day too ... must be all those emails I get!

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: GUEST,daisydeadpetal
Date: 27 May 03 - 11:05 AM

tori amos has performed a version in concert that is quite long with a different vocal melody than others i have heard. she adds the lines: "he will rise, he will rise, he will rise, they prophesize. for he rises, mine does, everyday.. everyday." (or something like that). its quite a haunting version that really gives the lyrics a depth of emotion that most other versions havent really. it can be downloaded at: http://www.hereinmyhead.com/sounds/sw.html

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: GUEST,Eric Chomko
Date: 19 May 03 - 12:18 PM

Not directly related to the orgin of the song, I do feel the need to mention a rendition of the song by a band called "Frijid Pink." No one has mentioned them and I think that they did the best version of the song. That is my opinion of course. Their version is more like something from Iron Butterfly or Vanilla Fudge (i.e. Acid Rock). Anyway, I prefer their version over the Amimals' or Dylan's.

Check out this link:
http://music.lycos.com/artist/default.asp?QW=Frijid%20Pink

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: Stewie
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 10:55 PM

Hardly new. It is from Fiddlin' Arthur Smith who recorded it in 1936. Smith's original is not on the recent excellent County reissue compilation of Smith and his Dixieliners [CO-CD-3526], but it is on Various Artists 'The Early Stars of the Grand Ole Opry' Catfish KATCD203.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 09:35 PM

New song out to the tune of "The House of the Rising Sun."

"Chitlin' Cooking Time in Cheetham County," John Cohen, on "Stories the Crow Told Me."

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: GUEST,Nerd
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 04:24 AM

Seems we have two different authoritative statements about the Burdon/Dylan Genealogy:

Burdon-Dylan-Jack Elliott-Nawlins Busker

Burdon-Dylan-Van Ronk-Gooding-?

Anyone have any more info on this?

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: Mark Ross
Date: 01 Jan 03 - 05:23 PM

Frank,
      The Animals definitely got their version from Dylan, who got it from Van Ronk, who told me that he'd come up with his version after hearing Cyntia Gooding's. Parenthetically, Dave told me that he had a photograph of the door to the Women's Prison in New Orleans which had a rising sun carved into the stone over the entrance. Dave said that the song is definitely NOT about a whorehouse.

Mark

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 01 Jan 03 - 11:15 AM

M. Ted,

I bet the Animals got their minor version from Joan Baez and Josh White. Josh was there in the forties. Other versions of the song to that time had been in major.

Frank

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: Mark Ross
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 05:51 PM

Woody played it in a major key, I, IV, and V, but sang a modal melody.


Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: GUEST,ghostofdreams
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 05:42 PM

as a beginning guitar player my ear is not well, so I need some help. If anybody knows the chord sequence to Woody Guthrie's version of the house of the rising sun I would greatly appreciate it if it was posted. thanx

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From:
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 02:43 AM

The Animals were, perhaps, the sweatiest live act of all the British R'n'B groups of the sixties. They came from Newcastle and by the end of 1963 they had established themselves as the leading band in the North East. Under the guidance of producer Mickie Most, their first single Baby Let Me Take You Home, which was an adaptation of a track from the first Bob Dylan album, almost made the Top Twenty. The following release was also taken from Dylan's debut, this was an adaptation of House Of The Rising Sun, which shot to the top of the charts in the UK and the USA. {source: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Villa/9500/animals.htm )

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: Stewie
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 01:53 AM

I found the following useful summary posted to the rec.music.folk newsgroup a few years ago by a Michael Thilo. I could not find the earlier messages by Blech and Suffet:

As I have posted a while ago Clarence Ashley said he taught 'Rising Sun Blues' aka 'House of the Rising Sun' to Roy Acuff "shortly after WW I". Now this must have happened after 1924, when Acuff graduated from high school in Knoxville and joined Dr Hauers Medicine Show" (OTM 12, 21).

Alan Lomax in The Penguin Book of American Folksongs gives these notes to the song (The Rising Sun):" A ragged Kentucky Mountain girl recorded this modern white song for me in 1937 in Middlesborough, Kentucky ... This blues song of a lost girl probably derives from some older British piece. At any rate, the house of the Rising Sun occurs in several risque English songs, and the melody is one of several for the ancient and scandalous ballad Little Musgrave". (Could this "ragged Kentucky Mountain girl" be Georgina Turner?, cf. Stephen Suffet in a previous posting).

R. Shelton has in the 'Josh-White-Songbook' (Quadrangle Books Inc. 1963) the following information:" He (i.e. J. White) learned Rising Sun from a white hillbilly singer in either Winston-Salem or High Pont, N.C. A few years ago he had to 'convince' a folklorist that he hadn't learned it from one of his books or recordings." I guess the 'folklorist' was A. Lomax. But more interesting is, that Josh White learned it from a "white hillbilly in N.C." Josh White went north to Chicago in the winter of 1924 with Blind Man Arnold (Josh White was then only ten years old) and stayed in the north except for a short interlude in his hometown Greenville, South Carolina in 1928. His only time in North Carolina was in 1923 and early 1924, when he had been leased out by Arnold to Blind Lemmon Jefferson whom he led through the major cities of N.C. , the same area Clarence Ashley toured with am medicine show since 1911. Ashley might have been the "white hillbilly singer".

Now what have we got so far?:

1905 : HoRS is said to have been known at that time by miners(?)

1923/24: Josh White learns it from a "white hillbilly singer" (C. Ashley ?)

1924/1925: Clarence Ashley teaches it to young Roy Acuff, who had just joined Dr Hauer's Medicine Show

1928: recorded by Texas Alexander (?), ca. 1928 (?) by Ashley and Foster (cf Kerry Blech in a previous posting)

1936 recorded by E. Tubb (maybe he got it from Acuff, when both where on Grand Old Opry?)

1937: A " ragged Kentucky Mountain girl" sang it to A.Lomax

1942: recorded by Josh White, copyrighted by Leeds Music Corp., N.Y.

1940ies: Leadbelly and Woody Guthrie learn it from Lomax and/or Josh White in New York City and so on into the wide, wide world of folk and pop.

All this seems to point to the medicine show / vaudeville milieu in the North Carolina- Tennessee-Kentucky area in the early years of the century as the origin of HoRS.

Texas Alexander recorded 'The Risin' Sun' on 15 November 1928 [OK 8673]

Tom Ashley and Gwen Foster recorded 'Rising Sun Blues' on 6 September 1933 - issued in February 1934 as Vocalion 02576.

Homer Callahan recorded 'Rounder's Luck' on 11 April 1935 - issued on ARC in February 1936.

Roy Acuff recorded 'Rising Sun' on 3 November 1938 - issued as Vo/OK 04909 in August 1939.

For articles by journalist, Ted Anthony, on Georgia Turner story see HERE and HERE. I have no idea of the accuracy of these articles.

For further discussion of the song put House of the Rising Sun (no quote marks) in the 'Search the Archives' link at Ballad-L site. Messages from John Garst are of particular interest. Ballad-L site.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: Susan A-R
Date: 12 Nov 02 - 10:13 PM

It certainly is a song that has travelled. I was just in a small town named Kutna Hora in the Czech Republic, hanging out in a bar where a group of folks were sitting around the table with guitars singing. They were doing House of the Rising Sun in Czech, They seemed to have a lot of verses. They did other familiar-sounding songs in translation. Hurrah for the folk tradition.

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Nov 02 - 12:46 AM

Maybe it's worth posting the entry from the Traditional Ballad Index, although most of the information in this entry has already been posted above.
-Joe Offer-

---

House of the Rising Sun, The

DESCRIPTION: The singer laments, "There is a house in New Orleans / They call the Rising Sun / It's been the ruin of many a poor girl / And me, O God, I'm one." She tells of her troubled childhood, laments that she cannot escape her life, and warns others against it
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1941 (Lomax/Lomax, "Our Singing Country")
KEYWORDS: whore lament
FOUND IN: US(So)
REFERENCES (5 citations):
Randolph-Legman I, pp. 250-253, "The House of the Rising Sun" (5 texts, 1 tune)
Lomax-FSNA 151, "The Rising Sun Blues" (1 text, 1 tune)
PSeeger-AFB, p. 18, "House Of The Rising Sun" (1 text, 1 tune)
Silber-FSWB, p. 184, "House Of The Rising Sun" (1 text)
DT, HOUSESUN*
RECORDINGS:
Roscoe Holcomb, "The Rising Sun" [LP] or "House in New Orleans" [CD] (on Holcomb-Ward1, HolcombCD1)
Almanac Singers, "House of the Rising Sun" (General 5020B, 1941; on Almanac01, Almanac03, AlmanacCD1)
Pete Seeger, "House of the Rising Sun" (on PeteSeeger18)
Notes: Legman offers extensive, if rambling, notes in Randolph-Legman I. - EC
File: RL250

---

Go to the Ballad Search form
Go to the Ballad Index Instructions

The Ballad Index Copyright 2002 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: Joe_F
Date: 11 Nov 02 - 07:30 PM

A few years ago, when I mentioned Dave Van Ronk's story about the women's prison on rec.music.folk, somebody was rather snooty about it; but I forget the details.

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: AggieD
Date: 11 Nov 02 - 12:31 PM

Joan Baez did a female version of this. Looking at her discography it was recoreded on several of her records. She has it listed as traditional.

It looks at the subject from the ruined woman's side.

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 11 Nov 02 - 10:51 AM

My understanding of the line “One foot on the platform and one foot on the train” is that it's an African American folk reference to pregnancy. I got that understanding from some long forgotten but surely authoritative <g> source. Does anyone else have that understanding or know of any scholarly source for such an association? I've tried searching the Net for some discussion but so far have come up empty.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: JedMarum
Date: 11 Nov 02 - 09:47 AM

Thanks for bringing this thread up again. Good disucssion here, and good info.

It always bothered me that a singer of this old song would have a mother that sewed new blue jeans. It didn't strike me as blue jeans would have been something that a tailor would have been sewing, in those days, in that area ...

I learned the song first from my Art of the Folk Blues book (Jerry Silverman) when I was 11 or 12 years old. It was listed as the version that Woody sang and was indeed a major key version of the melody, otherwise similar to the popular version the Animals sang.

I have to say the Animals introduced a song to the Pop culture that has resonated for years ... sit in any pub in the western world and play the first couple bars of the arpeggiated(sp?) chord progression and you'll have half the room on the edge of their seats in anticipation of you playing that "Animla's" song! If you're asked to play the song, and you give them on of the earlier versions, they'll feel cheated! Eric Burden and the Animals have given us the House of the Rising Sun that the world wants to hear!

And that's OK with me too. I've had fun playing with this song over the years - trying a few variations (mostly on the Animal's/minor key tune). It has a real bluesy/folk bluesy quality and is a great tune to sing.


... there's much gold among these Mudcat threads!

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: fox4zero
Date: 11 Nov 02 - 03:26 AM

Cisco Houston recorded it in a minor key on a 10" Stinson 33 1/3 disk in the late 40's or early 50's. He was a buddy of Woody Guthrie in the WW II merchant marine. He described Woody boarding ship with all his instruments as a "walking pawn shop window"

Larry

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: Mark Ross
Date: 11 Nov 02 - 01:31 AM

Dylan's version was a direct steal from Dave Van Ronk, who told me that he learned the song from Hally Wood's recording. Dave also told me that the House of the Rising Sun was the womens prison in NO,he had a picture of the doorway with a rising sun carved in stone above it.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: GUEST,ted andrews
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 02:30 PM

Think again as 90% of all american folk and early music is based on or basterdised versions of origonal europion songs and poems

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 02:17 PM

Or, more likely, in the nearby town of Legpullan...

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun?
From: GUEST,ted andrews
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 02:04 PM

I heard many years ago that this song was origonaly a cornish song reffering to a house of ill repute in polppero cornwall ?

Subject: RE: Origin or title of House of the Rising Sun
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 02:02 PM

The oldest versions of the song are posted in this thread by Arkie ("Rounder's Luck") and by Stewie ("Rising Sun Blues"). These date from the 1930s.
John and Alan Lomax published the song, with music, in "Our Singing Country," 1941, under the title "The Rising Sun Blues." The version in the DT is similar, but is one verse shorter.
Lomax obtained the song from Georgia Turner, from Kentucky, in 1937. Some verses he obtained from Bert Morton, also of Kentucky. Lomax notes that a few jazzmen from "before the war have a distant singing acquaintance with the song, indicates that it is fairly old as blues songs go. None of them, however, has information ... about the mother who ran a 'blue-jean shop ...or about the "house they call the Rising Sun." "We have heard it sung only bt southern whites."
Lomax was not a documenter, and seldom looked into the background of the songs that he collected.

Subject: RE: Origin or title of
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 03:27 PM

The verse is actually Iambic Heptameter--The shape note terms are based on the terms for analyzing verse but they are a bit ideosyncratic--check here Terms for Poetic Analysis">Click here when we talk about folk songs, we are really talking about poetry, and the terminology can be very helpful--

The melody features a a rest at the end of each line that is the equivalent of an eight iamb which is one of the little tricks that composers used to even out the odd length phrases that were standard in poetry and the older type of music that accompanied it, back in the Renaissance--

Those of us who lean "Balkan" know that the iamb translates into a 5/4 musical measure, and that there is a Bulgarian Folk Dance called Pajdushko(spell it like you want--Bulgarians use Cyrillic characters) that accompanies the singing of iambic ballads--

Weirdo that I am (b), I started playing this in 5/4 and it is a perfect Bulgarian Pajdushko!--This may not be big news for anyone normal, but there is basically only one 5/4 Bulgarian melody that anyone much uses, so it is sort of cool to find another one--

Mark mentions that this is called common meter, and it sure is--and has been for along time--most interesting thing to note is that, most likely, common meter songs were originally in 5/4--

Subject: RE: Origin or title of
From: GUEST,The Burren Ranger.
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 04:59 AM

Check out the amazing version (which they call 'Rising Sun' ) by Snakefarm from their album 'Songs From My Funeral' (BMG). TBR.

Subject: RE: Origin or title of
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 08 Apr 00 - 11:15 PM

All the songs mentioned are (more or less) in what is known as Common Meter, for obvious reasons. If you look at a shape note book, many of the songs will have the meter, that is, the rhythmic structure, listed as a parenthetical abbreviation after the title. This helped (and still helps) with tune switching. Love the words but not the tune? No problem, find another C.M. tune and dive right in. I can't remember the other meters and don't have my shape note book with me. Now where else but on the Mudcat can you go from Animals to brothels to Gilligan's Island to shape note hymns?

Aloha, Mark

Subject: RE: Origin or title of
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 08 Apr 00 - 06:53 PM

I read somewhere that it might have been a woman's prison. It would explain the last verse on a version: One foot on the platform, the other on the train, Goin' back to New Orleans to wear the ball and chain.

On the other hand, other verses point to the brothel.

As re: the Animals, if you study the chord progressions for Josh White's interpretation, you will find similar ones to the Animals. They changed some of the chord structure but it's easy to see where they got it.

Josh was the one who did it in a minor key.

Roy Acuff did a major version as did Woody and others.

Frank

Subject: RE: Origin or title of
From: Eluned
Date: 07 Apr 00 - 10:53 PM

Petr, that was redundant! (wasn't it, though?)

Subject: Lyr Add: RISING SUN BLUES (Clarence 'Tom' Ashley)
From: Stewie
Date: 07 Apr 00 - 10:23 PM

Back in October, in a thread started by Rick about Fred Hellerman's vesion of 'Rising Sun', I posted the following note and Clarence Ashley's version. My authority for saying it was the first commercial recording is Ralph Rinzler (Notes to 'Old Time Music at Clarence Ashley's Vol 2). It is interesting to compare it with the Callahan Bros version posted above by Arkie:

The first commercial recording of the song was by Clarence 'Tom' Ashley (guitar and vocals) accompanied by Gwen Foster (harmonica). I don't know the date, but it was probably 1931. Ashley has said that he thought he recalled his grandmother, Enoch Ashley, singing it to him when he was a young boy. Ashley taught it to Roy Acuff at medicine shows and Acuff also recorded it. It was also recorded by the Callahan Brothers in the 1930s. I think Woody, Josh White etc recorded it later in the 1940s. The Library of Congress also has some early recordings, all from Kentucky singers. In the country scene, it was a 'rounder' song. Here is Ashley's version which is interesting to compare with the wellknown version in DT:

RISING SUN BLUES

There is a house in New Orleans
They call the Rising Sun
Where many a poor boy to destruction has gone
And me, Oh God, I'm one

Just fill the glass up to the brim
Let the drinks go merrily round
We'll drink to the life of a rounder, poor boy
Who goes from town to town

All in this world does a rounder want
Is a suitcase and a trunk
The only time he's satisfied
Is when he's on the drunk

Now, boys, don't you believe what a girl tells you
Let her eyes be blue or brown
Unless she's on some scaffold high
Saying, 'Boy's I can't come down'

I'm going back – back to New Orleans
For my race is almost run
Gonna spend the rest of my wicked life
Beneath the Rising Sun

Source: 'Old Time Music at Clarence Ashley's Vol 2 Folkways LP FA 2359

Subject: RE: Origin or title of
From: Petr
Date: 07 Apr 00 - 08:52 PM

Hey speaking of gilligans island, did anyone see that episode where they almost get off the island but gilligan bungles it up. Petr

Subject: RE: Origin or title of
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 07 Apr 00 - 03:35 PM

Oops, posted before I finished---Arkie, thanks for the Rounder's Luck--it is very interesting!! Too bad they didn't say more about the sources of the songs--

Subject: RE: Origin or title of
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 07 Apr 00 - 03:32 PM

The funniest thing of all is that, if you didn't know Gilligan's Island, you wouldn't know it was funny!

Subject: RE: Origin or title of
From: GUEST,Amazing Grace/House of the Rising Sun
Date: 07 Apr 00 - 03:07 PM

You can sing the four songs Amazing Grace, Gilligan's Island Theme, House of the Rising Sun, and Stairway to Heaven all to each other's tunes. It's my favorite party trick, actually.

Amazing Grace to Gilligan's Island is probably the funniest. Try it!

Subject: ADD: Rounder's Luck (RisingSun Blues)
From: GUEST,Arkie who has lost his cookie
Date: 07 Apr 00 - 12:26 AM

Here are the words to Callahan's version of Rounders Luck. The best I can figure them out. The place where I really had trouble is in ().

ROUNDER'S LUCK
(Rising Sun Blues)
from Homer (Bill) Callahan's 1935 Matrix recording

The only thing that a rounder wants
Is a suitcase and a trunk.
And the only time he's satisfied
Is when he is on a drunk.

He'll (loft) those glasses to the brim
Let the drinks go merrily round
We'll drink to the health of the rounder poor boy
Who hobos from town to town.

My Mother she's a seamstress.
She cuts and sews them jeans.
My Daddy he's a gambling man.
He gambles in New Orleans.

Oh Mama, mama how could you go
And treat that rounder so cold.
(For he's a rounder for all his strife)
And to wear your crown of gold.

Theres a place down in New Orleans
That's called the Rising Sun.
Where many poor boy (to judgment have gone)
And me oh lord for one.

O tell my youngest brother
Not to do what I have done
And to shun that place down in New Orleans
That's called the Rising Sun.

I'm going back to New Orleans
My race is almost run.
Gonna spend the rest of my weekly pay
Beneath that Rising Sun.

Subject: RE: Origin or title of
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 06 Apr 00 - 06:43 PM

I finally had a chance to check on the Callahan Brothers and found the following: The song "Rounder's Luck", also called "Rising Sun Blues" is on the Old Homestead LP OHM-90031. The album is entitled The Callahan Brothers. While the album notes are short on the songs, they are long on the brothers. The brothers were originally from Madison County in North Carolina but played on the radio in many states. They started recording in 1933. Rounder's Luck, according to album notes was orginally recorded April 11, 1935 on Matrix No. 17289-2. Homer (a pseduonym sometimes used by Bill) Callahan is credited on the record with vocal and guitar. The words and tune are a little different from the better-known versions but are close enough to be identified with "The House of the Rising Sun". I will post the words when I get a chance.

Subject: RE: Origin or title of
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 01:00 PM

As I remember it isn't the same melody at all--Unless I am very much mistaken, that version uses the major melody, and is similar to the Woody Guthrie version...

Subject: RE: Origin or title of
From: GUEST,Ritchie
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 12:46 PM

Sadly the Animals bassist, Chas Chandler, is now no longer with us. Chas after leaving the Animals went on to manage Slade & Jimi Hendrix...a very shrewd and sensible man (Chas that is, not Jimi !)

Ritchie (not a real guest) my PC's crashed again.

Subject: RE: Origin or title of
From: Terry Allan Hall
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 09:38 AM

Eric Burton & the Animals stole their version from Bob Dylan's 1st album, who in turn learned it from Ramblin' Jack Elliott, who in turn learned it from a New Orleans busker...

So why does the Animal's bassist has the copyright?

Hmmmmmmmm..........

Subject: RE: Origin or title of
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 05 Apr 00 - 01:55 AM

I am curious as to where the Animals got their melody, as well--I don't remember any one else using quite that one-- Was the tune that Chet Atkins used to do, called "Rising Sun Blues" the same as the Clarence Ashley melody?

Subject: RE: Origin or title of
From: Doctor John
Date: 04 Apr 00 - 01:49 PM

The red light district of N.O. - Storyville - was closed down by the authorities around WWl. There's a good song about this called "Farewell to Storyville" about the whores moving out. I think I have a recording of it by a jazz singer with the Kid Ory band but that's the only time I've heard it. Dr John

Subject: RE: Origin or title of
From:
Date: 03 Apr 00 - 03:51 PM

The best history I've heard about the origins of the song "House of the Rising Sun" goes like this. Originally written by a black musician named Sam House His mother was a freed slave who became seamstress in a New Orleans brothel in the late 1800's. The brothel itself burnt to the ground around the turn of the century and a new hotel was built on the site with a new name. Sam House performed at the brothel as well as other places around N.O.

The line in the song which referenced his real mother, was changed Eric Burden when he recorded it. His version has a line that ends with "she sewed my new blue jeans", originally went "she sewed dem fancy things".

There are several other phrases that were "cleaned up" by Eric Burden during the recording process because they were "too black".

I wish I could remember where I got this information, but I've "known" this history of the song for over 20 years and I doubt I could ever prove any of it or discover its source. At any rate it was fascinating at the time I heard it.