Eliza Carthy in the Guardian

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 03:57 PM

oh and the word FOLK is not a rude one, so you can print it in full *LOL*

Charlotte R

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 03:55 PM

who's we, oh great troll, Guest Ed? You in your mind may have decided, but the debate, clearly is, a never ending one and most likely will always be so.

Charlotte R

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 03:47 PM

This thread is hilarious.

I thought we'd agreed that 'f**k' isn't definable?

Clearly not....

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 03:27 PM

It would be very interesting to her from such singers and musicians (who can play classical etc from dots and folk without them) about the way they approach each type of playing/singing, and the extent to which each style informs the other.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 03:18 PM

I think it's great that there are classically trained singers and musicians who can perform and improvise folk song and music and sound really good without the dots....

Kitty

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 03:11 PM

for completists:

Paul Sartin

Charlotte R

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Surreysinger
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 03:08 PM

Kitty - unless I'm mistaken, doesn't Paul Sartin still perform in the realms of classical music as well ?? I had the feeling that he was part of a male singing quartet, not to mention being involved with music for series like the Vicar of Dibley

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: mattkeen
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 02:56 PM

Chris Wood was a chorister too, and Tim van Eyken studied and sang at Wells Cathedral as a boy.


John Dipper plays like he could play anything at all with grace and brilliance.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 02:39 PM

I just pictured Sir Martin in a frock with frilly collar....

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 02:36 PM

Re Bellowhead - Paul Sartin was a classical musician and choral scholar until he heard Ian Giles in a pub in Oxford..... and Eliza's dad was a chorister too!

Kitty

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 01:57 PM

Canticles of Ecstasy, recorded by Sequentia in 1993. The next oldest music to that I love is the Cantigas from 13th century Spain. I have a wonderful CD by Ensemble Alcatraz with Kitka (women's vocal ensemble) which contains Cantigas de Santa Maria and the seven wonderful Cantigas de Amigo of Martin Codax. It's a 2000 recording on the Dorian label. Classical meets folk, after a fashion. ;-) It's fabulous stuff.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 12:26 PM

So what Hildegard CD were you listening to, Steve? My favourite remains Sequentia's original 1982 recording of Ordo Virtutem, which I have in the vinyl boxset.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 12:09 PM

Hey Eliza.
Can we use the quote?
"Some patronising, low brow Housewives' Choice that everyone knows in their heart of hearts is a bit desparate"
Couldn't have put it better myself!
Baroque and Roll
Onwards with a grin.
Ralphie

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 10:26 AM

"I thought that Hildegarde von Bingen was 'early music' rather than 'classical' according to current clsifications, and I wouldn't think of that as the same sort of music. I would think that most people don't think of anything earlier than perhaps Purcell as 'classical'."


Aargh!

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 10:13 AM

"There is nothing in Traditional Folksong to compare with prescriptive right-on proslytisation as purveyed by Billy Bragg, VOTP. We find narratives, experiences, regrets & reminiscences - but messages? Maybe not, at least none so overtly declaimed, and certainly none so political, Lord preserve us, unless in their interpretation, but never in their intention."

I think you may be missing something about contemporary folk song. It ain't just Billy Bragg who breaks your rule. Why, Christy Moore, Leon Rosselson, Dick Gaughan and Roy Bailey do it all the time, to name but a few. I mean, is it folk? ;-)

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 09:57 AM

Well, having pulled down Roy Palmer's excellent collection "A Touch on the Times" from my bookshelf, there are dozens.

Striking Times (1850s), with the chorus "And it's high time that working men should have it their own way, And for a fair day's labour receive a fair day's pay," could be right out of the Billy Bragg songbook.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Sarah the flute
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 09:57 AM

Political songs?

What about The Cropper Lads

That would appear to be inviting luddite behaviour amongst the masses

Just a thought

Sarah

Who actually quite likes some classical stuff and sings in a choral society before going on to an Irish session in a pub.
Diversity is the spice of life

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 09:49 AM

I would have thought Purcell was decidedly Baroque; it's not until the middle of the 18th century that classical music kicks in, which, oddly enough, is where I generally stop listening...

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 09:44 AM

Nice one, Ruth! But Rigs of the Time doesn't strike me as being political in the slightest, just a realistic overview of the sort of shit that invariably goes down in an open market economy. We could put an anti-capitalist gloss on it, but it's the quality of basic human decency that's being lamented here, rather than free-trade per-se, and one still gets the impression it's just one person's experience.

I thought of a few other exceptions to what I said earlier on too, but I stumbled on trying to fix any secure provenance on any of them, saving the odd Corn Law or Chartist anthem which are politically overt but not necessarily folk songs, even though they might be (convincingly) sang as such.

Decidedly off thread, as ever, but if any one's got any more...

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: mattkeen
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 08:32 AM

A lot of traditional songs surely were, to some extent, in code. They simply couldn't be as politically overt as Billy Bragg

For instance - don't you think that a lot of the songs admiring Napoleon were phrased as they were because it would have been dangerous to say "Lets have a revolution like them French geezers - that'll show the bastards".

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 08:06 AM

I thought that Hildegarde von Bingen was "early music" rather than "classical" according to current clsifications, and I wouldn't think of that as the same sort of music. I would think that most people don't think of anything earlier than perhaps Purcell as "classical".

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 08:04 AM

"There is nothing in Traditional Folksong to compare with prescriptive right-on proslytisation as purveyed by Billy Bragg, VOTP. We find narratives, experiences, regrets & reminiscences - but messages? Maybe not, at least none so overtly declaimed, and certainly none so political, Lord preserve us, unless in their interpretation, but never in their intention. "



No wonder butter's a shilling a pound,
See those rich farmers' daughters how they ride up and down
If you ask them the reason they'll say, "Bonny lass
There's been a French war, and the cows have no grass."

Chorus:
Singing, honesty's all out of fashion
These are the rigs of the time,
Time, my boys
These are the rigs of the time.
Now here's to our landlord, I must bring him in,
Charges tuppence a pint and yet thinks it no sin.
When he do bring it in, the measure is short
And the top of the pint is all covered in froth.

And here's to the butcher, I must bring him in,
Charges four pence a pound and yet thinks it no sin.
Slaps his thumb on the scales and makes it go down
He declares it's full weight yet it lacks half a pound.

And here's to the baker, I must bring him in,
Charges a ha'penny a loaf and yet thinks it no sin.
When he do bring it in, it's no bigger than your fist
And the top of the loaf has popped off with the yeast.

Now here's to the tailor who skims with our clothes,
And here's to the cobbler who pinches our toes,
Our belly's all empty, our bodies are bare,
No wonder we've reason to curse and to swear.

Now the very best thing that I could find
Is to toss them all up in a high gale of wind.
When the wind it do blow, the balloon it would burst,
And the biggest old rascal come tumbling down first.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 08:02 AM

Not all traditional songs, Sedayne, but some, surely. Some of the Jone O'Grinfilt variants are taking digs at the government of the day, individual politicians and even Royalty... Surely, that's political.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 07:58 AM

"Ruth Archer makes a great deal of the posh people who make up the classical world, and the common people who make up the folk world. In fact, that split seems to be the whole thrust of her argument."

No, Greg, I was pointing out the historical situation which has led us to where we are now. If you don't believe me, look at Keynes or Reith and their respective views on the founding of the Arts Council and the BBC. My version may have been pretty potted and simplified, but as I used to teach this stuff I feel pretty confident that it's accurate.

The middle classes are largely the patrons of the arts in general (including folk), so one could argue (and my students used to have to write an essay on this very topic) that the National Lottery is a tax on the poor to subsidise the entertainment of the middle classes. Again, I'm not going all class war - I absolutely believe in public subsidy of the arts. But that's another debate.

I'm also not really trying to pit classical against folk - at least not as artforms. I haven't said that I think folk is better than classical music - all I've said is that it deserves equal visibility and status. Not very contentous, really, unless you're a classical bod who sees such statements as a threat to your annual funding bean feast.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 07:54 AM

...the 'folk' songs that we sing now came from the real experiences of the people who 'wrote' them, which is just what Billy has been doing.

There is nothing in Traditional Folksong to compare with prescriptive right-on proslytisation as purveyed by Billy Bragg, VOTP. We find narratives, experiences, regrets & reminiscences - but messages? Maybe not, at least none so overtly declaimed, and certainly none so political, Lord preserve us, unless in their interpretation, but never in their intention.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 07:47 AM

"Unlike folk, it only seems to cover a period of about 200-300 years:)"

Haha, good joke! I'll have a belly-laugh just after my Hildegarde von Bingen CD has finished...

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 07:45 AM

Strange indeed, not, but you can't beat a bit of balanced thinking. We're not writing letters to Take That's fanzine, you know.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 07:45 AM

Back in about 1970 to my delight one Prom concert was presented by "Soft Machine" with "Badger" as a support act, and there was all sorts of comments made then about how standards were falling etc.

The experiment was not repeated as I recall.

Anyone think that this will become a regular part of the Proms?
If it's an attempt to get more people into classical music by putting on one event from another style of music I think it is doomed, back in the 70s I only listened to the "Soft Machine Prom".

Or with the present declining status of classical music will other inclusions be made. After all, classical music could be a passing fad; Unlike folk, it only seems to cover a period of about 200-300 years:)

Robin Madge

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Banjiman
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 07:41 AM

Steve Shaw,

"But we're also reading stuff on this thread that seems to pit classical against folk, and that is not right."

I guess in terms of accessing funding, that is entirely right. With a limited pot it is competitive.

Strange that on a mostly "folk" forum that the majority of posters come down on the side of folk! Not.

Paul

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 07:36 AM

Well, Greg, I read the article and took umbrage at the final paragraph, which I thought was ill-considered. It's a simple as that. Yep, hands in the air, I started it. I like the fact that luminaries from the world of folk music get articles in newspapers and I like the fact that the Proms is reaching out a bit. The general tone of the article was just fine - until that dig at the end, which was predicated on a very limited knowledge of the Proms, as Eliza later admits. Maybe I should have said that to balance my first post but there was plenty of balance coming from elsewhere at the time. Right? But we're also reading stuff on this thread that seems to pit classical against folk, and that is not right. Tell me where I wasn't listening.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: GUEST,Meggly
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 07:30 AM

"The idea that Folk Music has to be 'relevant' is a politically correct, Twentieth Century fabrication."

Ummmm, wasn't it 'relevent' at some point back 'in the day'? Where did all the songs come from if it wasn't? What about the ballads of people being pressed into the Navy for example? Did that not happen?

As I saw it, the 'folk' songs that we sing now came from the real experiences of the people who 'wrote' them, which is just what Billy has been doing.

But more than that, I don't see that just becuase a song was written about the Napoleonic wars it isn't relevant today; we still have wars; lovers still head off into the blue (albeit with better telecommunications); people still have one-night stands (although not in hay-ricks with Grenadiers). Although, I suppose, at least we don't get pilloried for haveing sex out of wedlock these days; but then I also find it hard to notice a lovely May morning, living in the smoke as I do, so there's good and bad in the modern world.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: the button
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 07:30 AM

Good points from Greg, I reckon.

Maybe folk & classical share a common problem, in that there's a perception from a lot of people that they're "not for the likes of me." As much as I love (some) classical music, this was very much the feeling I had the first time I went to the Royal Festival Hall, even though (at £6 for the cheapest seats) it was one of the cheapest nights out in London.

The "not for the likes of me" factors might be different in folk (FWIW, I think it's largely a question of image), but they're there all the same.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 07:23 AM

Bit of a non-row this thread really, not sure that people have fully listened to what Steve Shaw is trying to say, or that Steve Shaw fully listened to what Eliza Carthy had to say.
   Anyway,I would like to raise a couple of related points. Ruth Archer makes a great deal of the posh people who make up the classical world, and the common people who make up the folk world. In fact, that split seems to be the whole thrust of her argument. I think that is largely wishful thinking, making up facts to fit a theory. Now, I know people in Bellowhead, and I know classical musicians, not to mention lots of other genres. I do not honestly think there is that much difference between the average cultural and social backgrounds of those in Bellowhead, and those in the Halle orchestra or whatever(or at least in the backgrounds of the classical players of comparable age to Bellowhead). Folk music obviously originally came from, on average, a lower social class than did classical. But the current practitioners of folk-related music(or at least those selected to be at the proms)are converging, as regards class, with the classical world.
    Obviously I am speaking generally, there are some working class classical people, as there are working class young folkies.But times have changed.
    My other, and very similar point, is that it is great there is a folk day at the proms, but it is only a start. There has always been some folk related stuff available in the "respectable" music world. Composers and performers have often chosen to perform, and experiment with, folk related material: they do this in music, as they do in the visual arts world, or in literature. The folk revival of the 50's and 60's did this and has developed into the "folk scene" of today. But the real breakthough will occur when "actual" folk music is shown and made available in these settings, on an equal footing with the processed and reworked and developed versions. Then we shall really see some eyes being opened!

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 07:17 AM

Who?

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: GUEST,Confrontation Viper
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 07:15 AM

Nice to see those Ghastly Geffs staying out of this thread, what?

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 07:13 AM

QUOTE "And I happen to think that Billy Bragg is truly a folk performer in the best sense of the term. He sings great songs about CONTEMPORARY issues that affect real people. If there had ever been a golden age that's what folk singers would have been doing."

Says who? UNQUOTE

Oh, for goodness sake, there wasn't a golden age so just allow me my reverie. As for relevance, there's room for a bit o' that and there's room for a bit of irrelevance. As long as we shut up about Willie Taylor every now and again. It is perception you know. He even puts me off, and I'm a folkie. For want of a much, much better word.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 06:58 AM

There's none so blind as those that won't....


    C !!!

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Willa
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 06:51 AM

"The orchestral bods were also very sniffy aboutt he project being folk-led, and at the idea that they could learn anything from the folk side of things."


Clearly they don't relise that many composers of classical music did feel they could learn from the'folk' and did so!

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 06:49 AM

"And I happen to think that Billy Bragg is truly a folk performer in the best sense of the term. He sings great songs about CONTEMPORARY issues that affect real people. If there had ever been a golden age that's what folk singers would have been doing."

Says who?

Oh how I hate the idea that music has to be 'relevant'! The idea that Folk Music has to be 'relevant' is a politically correct, Twentieth Century fabrication. It's a load of sanctimonius twaddle! The only things that Folk Music is, or has to be, relevant to is the human heart and imagination. Let's have less f*cking 'relevance' and more skill and passion. Over to you, Eliza ...

I stand by everything I said!

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: mattkeen
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 06:47 AM

As the old album title goes:
"Hull 4 London 0"

I think its brilliant

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 06:42 AM

EC didn't front any of 'Folk Britannia', she co-presented the 'Daughters of Albion' concert and her 'episode' isn't on either of the two series recordings I made!

Is 'Visual Comprehension' not taught in schools at all?

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 06:29 AM

If someone employed me to do it, Steve, I daresay I could. Irish music didn't get to where it is without national government intervention.

If the government recognised traditional culture as part of the heritage industry, and promoted it accordingly (perhaps starting with the brilliant folk festivals we have), it would raise the profile of the music and dance both within Britain and beyond.

If money was spent on teaching children GOOD QUALITY traditional music and dance in schools, it would begin to form part of a national identity.

Two quick ideas, as I'm just off out. But honestly, it's not rocket science.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 06:18 AM

Of course, we could start by not calling ourselves "folkies." Just like Irish music should avoid referring to itself as "diddley music."

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 06:16 AM

But I'm saying we have to ask ourselves why the nation doesn't fall over backwards to give us some dosh. I't's no good keeping complaining that it just ain't fair. We have to address the reasons for the reluctance. Folk music is seen by a lot of non-folkies as inhabiting its own strange, cliquey world. You know it's wrong, I know it's wrong, but if that's what people think the government is not going to throw money gleefully in our direction. I mean, can you demonstrate how folk music can be used to help define our "national identity," still more drag in the tourist quid? You've got a job on there!

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 06:06 AM

"Whining on about lack of subsidy of folk is a perfect manifestation of one of the symptoms of the problem."

I'd love to see how the classical community would start whining if their subsidy was cut back so that it was commensurate with other artforms.

The whole point is that the lack of subsidy reflects the lack of priority placed on our national music by the government - a huge missed opportunity, as was mentioned earlier, in terms of tourism and national identity.

While Cecil Sharp House in London struggles to even be fit for purpose, Ceol, the recently-opened Irish Traditional Music Centre in Dublin, received something like £4m in public subsidy. Its opening was attended by the Minister for Culture. Apparently it's a fantastic building with great facilities - a showcase for the country's traditional culture.

THAT's why I'm "whining on". Because if English music were properly valued and funded, it could stand shoulder to shoulder with any other music this country produces. You may call it whining - I call it lobbying.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 05:46 AM

And I happen to think that Billy Bragg is truly a folk performer in the best sense of the term. He sings great songs about CONTEMPORARY issues that affect real people. If there had ever been a golden age that's what folk singers would have been doing. Yes, that could get up some traditionalists' noses I suppose. Of course, if we WANT to sideline anyone with electric pretensions or regional accents...

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 05:42 AM

political punk

Shimrod doesn't seem to be aware of the range of Billy Bragg's songwriting output.
Long may King James' Version stay in Eliza's set (and indeed St Swithin's Day in her mother's).

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 05:38 AM

Dave. I'm not saying that all is sweetness and roses in classical either. But chucking in a long-time legend like Christy in to demonstrate how to get audiences is like me saying we'll get Simon Rattle and the Berlin Phil, fill the Bridgewater three times over and lo! See how all's well in the world of classical!   And the Hallé playing Messiaen or Shostakovich will never fill the hall but that is not a reason for not airing less mainstream, less popular works. Without subsidy you'd have to ditch them (no loss to me in those cases as it happens but that's hardly the point is it. Had Bach been left to "market forces" in the hundred years after his death instead of being advocated by a few aficionados with vision we would scarcely have heard of him now). A big promoter in London can fill the Albert Hall every week as long as puts the all-bells-and-whistles 1812 on the menu. The subsidies for classical help to preserve diversity. I hope you can see it's not the same perception problem as with folk music. Anyone can quote exceptions that prove the rule. I happen to think that we need to preserve culture, even minority culture, and that will usually require taxpayers' dosh. Jeez, if they can do it for Northern bloody Rock... The problem with folk is that it has yet to prove (not to you, not to me, not to each other!) that there is culture worth preserving. To the general public, even to the reluctant Beeb. Traditional Irish has big problems of perception (and the rapidly-changing nature of the country) too but they are not the same as here and there are several regular (and good) radio slots on RTE and on local radio. It's what people think of us at the end of the day innit. We can't expect either them or even the Beeb to make all the running in getting the perception right and fair. It has to come from within.   Whining on about lack of subsidy of folk is a perfect manifestation of one of the symptoms of the problem.   Anyway, the Barn Concert is great and will do good. I didn't haven't a pot at Eliza's article because I have a problem with the gig.   I just don't. I didn't have a problem with the article either apart from the snipe in the final paragraph. We need good airings by good people. All power.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 05:28 AM

With the greatest respect to Eliza, Shimrod, I think English traditional music would be in a pretty parlous state if its future rested on a single pair of shoulders. Billy Bragg notwithstanding, there are a host of young(ish) performers who are making positive contributions to the future of the music (and dance). Yes, Eliza takes risks and is innovative while remaining true to the tradition, which is not an easy feat to pull off, but she had some pretty good teachers in the previous generation of her family (not least in Lal Waterson).

But let's not forget about the rest of the young English folk scene. If the music has a future, it is going to rely on a critical mass of solid young performers, and from what I observe at festivals and events around the country, the scene is in rude good health. There are many of them whom I'd be happy to see as ambassadors for English folk music.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy in the Guardian
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 05:17 AM

"Which version of Folk Britannia is Shimrod talking about? The one in his/her head or the one that was actually broadcast on my TV?"

My point is that, in my opinion, Eliza C. is one of the few people uniquely qualified to 'represent' English Folk Music. I watched the 'Folk Britannia' programmes with some dismay. In one episode we had Billy Bragg, who seems to think he represents English Folk Music, hogging the stage (in my opinion Mr Bragg's output has very little to do with Folk Music - 'political punk' might be a better description - nothing wrong with that, if you like that sort of thing - I can't stand it!).

On the other hand, during Ms Carthy's episode, my recollection is that she sang a couple of songs but spent most of the programme introducing other performers.

I know that Ms Carthy reads this, and I really don't want to come across as some sort of 'starstruck fan', but I do think that, of all the younger performers, she is the most talented and most innovative, as well as the performer who gets closest to the emotional heart of English Trad. music. We need to hear more of Eliza Carthy and less of the likes of Mr Bragg! You are our great hope, Eliza - go for it!