BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 20 May 07 - 04:37 AM

If they are made legal, they will have to pay a fine of $1000.00 right off the bat. Then, after a series of trials and a number of years, they can return to Mexico and apply for citizenship after paying another $4000.00 fine, passing an English proficiency test, and accumulating points based on their education, skills or profession.

SUCH A DEAL!

Leave it to Bush to take a very good, Liberal rationale (amnesty) and turning it into a cash grab.

How many illegals do you think can afford to pay the fine just so they can be denied citizenship on the basis of poverty?

What a stupid system! The hard-working father trying to feed his family will never be able to scrape together the money while the drug dealer will have no problem, as long as he does not have a previous record.

The current attempt to solve the problem of illegal immigration will solve nothing. It will only provide another level of bureacracy.

The only way to solve this problem is to fine employers for hiring illegals or to give the illegals amnesty so that they will have to be paid a a minimum wage.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Peace
Date: 20 May 07 - 12:56 AM

'but I've been reading about the "Mexican Billionaires," and while there don't seem to be a lot of them, they have all the resources tied up so the working people don't have a chance.'

Must have been a short read . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 May 07 - 12:39 AM

And, BTW, emergency rooms have become the poor man's only access to health care regardless of race, cred or where you are from...

Thanks for pointing that out, Bobert. It has been that way for far too long, imo.

Wow, TEN Mexican billionaires to America's FOUR HUNDRED, oh my!

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Dickey
Date: 20 May 07 - 12:11 AM

Bobert:

Obviously you are a shill woking for Boss Hogg. Just tell the cheap bastard you want a raise.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 May 07 - 10:42 PM

Taxes in the US are going to go up, probably with the next president, because we have this tiny little debt to pay off....

Get used to the idea -- we can't continue with this "borrow and spend" economy.

Personally, I like the "tax and spend" concept, because at least you're paying for for it up front instead of foisting it off on those who come after.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Peace
Date: 19 May 07 - 10:27 PM

Mexican Billionaires.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 May 07 - 09:59 PM

"...but I've been reading about the "Mexican Billionaires," and while there don't seem to be a lot of them, they have all the resources tied up so the working people don't have a chance."

             "I hope this was posted tongue-in-cheek?"


                No it's not tongue-in-cheek. It's factual. Forbes has a list of Mexican Billionaires. I've never been able to make that "blue clicky" gizmo work, but google them. They're out there, and they control so much of Mexico's economy that virtually no capital is made available for other activities.

                Call them Mezo-American robber-barons.

                They need a Teddy Rossevelt; it's a large part of the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Bobert
Date: 19 May 07 - 09:51 PM

Okay, let me restate my question once again...

Where were you folks who ***now*** want to enforce the law 10 years ago when the economy was flourishing with cheap Hispanic (not necessarially Mexican) labor???

I mean, isn't this the corporate model???... Use people and then try to dodge any benefits that these folks might have coming??? I see little difference between the Hispanics who are now under attack by "Boss Hog's" goon than the labor union folks who were beat up in the 30's by "Boss Hog's" goons, or the UAW folks who are about to get a butt whup put on them by the new owners of Chrysler...

Like I said... This ain't about enforcing laws or not enforcin' 'um... It's about money...

And, BTW, emergency rooms have become the poor man's only access to health care regardless of race, cred or where you are from...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 19 May 07 - 09:13 PM

McGrath, does the open door policy just apply to Romanians, or are all immigrants welcome regardless of nationality, criminality, valid passport or lack thereof? Is there any such thing as an illegal immigrant in Ireland? Do you have an extra room?

"Speaking of the Irish, there were once the same hysterical fears being expressed about massive Irish immigration to the USA. That was back in the mid-to-late 1800s." That's true. But the government and the taxpayers of the United States weren't asked to feed, house, and provide health coverage for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 May 07 - 05:51 PM

But don't worry--not only are dead-enders like our own dear Doug R, totally opposed to the deal, but quite a few illegal immigrants have concerns too. So would I, if I were an illegal immigrant. The $5,000 fine is a problem, but surmountable. But all heads of household would have to return to their "country of origin" for the stupidly artificial "touch-back" provision. Then they have to trust that the US will let them in again--and very quickly, since otherwise they may well lose jobs and their families will suffer.

The government will carry out a brand- new bureaucratic procedure with exemplary efficiency.

Right. About that bridge I have to sell Teribus.....

And that assumes that illegal immigrants will trust the government at all. And what reason have they been given so far to trust the government?

If I were an illegal immigrant, no way would I sign on to a procedure that requires me to leave the US. I wouldn't come out of the shadows for this.

So, all you giant intellects who wave the bloody flag of "amnesty", don't worry. The bill as it stands is going nowhere---especially since Pelosi is insisting on a guarantee by the White House of 70 House Republicans before she'll bring the bill up. For a glimpse of the likely reception in the House, look for instance, at the calm measured response by that paragon of clear thinking, Doug R, to support of the bill by Senator Kyl.

We'll just have to wait a few more elections, til the growing electoral influence of the fastest growing ethnic group--legally-- has its results.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 May 07 - 04:50 PM

Speaking of the Irish, there were once the same hysterical fears being expressed about massive Irish immigration to the USA. That was back in the mid-to-late 1800s.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 May 07 - 04:33 PM

Ireland does share a border with Romania, politically if not geographically.

If you are Romanian you can come to Ireland any time you want and live there, in the same way that if you're Irish you can go and live in Romania.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 May 07 - 03:51 PM

LEJ--

I agree you need some type of enforcement mechanism. But ask yourself:   in the case of hiring of illegal immgrants, who will turn in the employer? The employer itself will not, nor will the illegal immigrant hired. But if the employer does not pay mimimum wage, the worker has powerful incentive to turn in the employer--and will do so--if the worker himself or herself is legal--and therefore does not fear deportation if they rock the boat. Which is why they should all be made legal--through a gradual process of citizenship.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 May 07 - 02:23 PM

GUEST,Anti-Im, you are a mine of misinformation. "Secret?" Then how is it that everybody knows about it?

And last night, there was a lengthy discussion of the ins and outs of it on PBS's "Washington Week in Review."

It has not been passed yet. And it is bi-partisan. Bush wants it. Some Democrats like it, some Democrats dislike it; some Republicans like it, some Republicans dislike it. So your thread title is misleading.

It's a bad law from a number of viewpoints, but for Chrissake, Anti-Im, try to learn some facts before you point with alarm and scream like an air-raid siren!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 19 May 07 - 02:13 PM

Ron, good points. But isn't a Minimum Wage requirement based on employers complying with law? And if they are hiring illegal aliens, they are unlikely to break one law and comply with another, are they?

And I am not saying "the poor" should not be using emergency rooms. They must have recourse. But hospitals are not equipped to handle the numbers of poor citizens PLUS millions of another nation's poor. Also, E-room treatment is NOT a taxpayer issue. This is a cost primarily absorbed by private industry, then passed on to Insurance companies, and then to employers and their employees, employees who, should they need emergency care, may not even have reasonable access to it. This is fair how?

And McGrath, come off the "The American colonies, and their successor, the United Sates, were and are only there in the first place as a consequence of illegal immigration from Europe" stuff. Ireland has experienced many waves of "illegal immigrants" from the Norse, to the British, to the Celts, to whoever pre-dated them. Somehow I think the Irish Republic also has borders, visas, and checkpoints that demand passports before entry. Maybe if Ireland shared a border with Nigeria, Vietnam, or Romania, the problem would be a bit less philosophical.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: DougR
Date: 19 May 07 - 02:01 PM

I don't think it is a good law. Those who entered the country illegally will be rewarded and those who have gone through the legal process to obtain citizenship get the shaft. The illegals are a drain on our healthcare system and our educational system.

I am not opposed to legal immigration. That's what this country was founded on.

Both McCain and Kyle (who I voted for in the last election) are on my s---t list.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Peace
Date: 19 May 07 - 01:41 PM

I can understand anyone's concern about a large influx of people. However, if indeed the situation is inevitable, then someone in the USA ought to get proactive and educate the new rash of folks to BE Americans and not some marginalized sub group that keeps to itself. Anothere however however is this: the bill will not reach Bush's desk because there is no way Congress will pass it that far.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 May 07 - 01:39 PM

The American colonies, and their successor, the United Sates, were and are only there in the first place as a consequence of illegal immigration from Europe.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 May 07 - 01:36 PM

Nobody argues that use of emergency rooms by illegal immigrants is not a problem. However, the solution is not some neverland idea of sending them all back, or presenting them with a list of absurd preconditions for becoming citizens--like "touch-back"--or huge fines--but rather a more reasonable process: a proficiency in English, no criminal record (the act of illegal immigration itself should not disqualify), etc.

And a push to raise the minimum wage should be part of it. This would help get them on the road--as so many immigrants before--to climbing the economic ladder. And would eventually allow them to have their own health care--as would universal health care itself (which is of course another topic.).   The poor in the US already use emergency rooms disproportionately--as their last resort. And taxpayers pay for it. But trying to deprive them of it is no solution to the problem.

As I've said before, it's because the illegal immigrants are are illegal that employers can exploit them. The solution is not to try to punish them, but to make them legal.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 19 May 07 - 01:14 PM

America is actually pretty important to those of us who live here.

I don't think illegal immigrants are out to destroy America. They are doing what makes sense to them. If I lived in a country where I made $10 a day, where there was no health care, no social safety net, I would probably hike three miles through the desert to get to one where I could make $8 an hour and have a guarantee of at least minimal housing and health care. The question is whether the United States, as a sovereign nation (Like Canada, Great Britain, and, well, Mexico) has the right to establish its own rules about allowing immigrants in. Despite any nebulous theories about one world government, such a thing doesn't exist, and governments are supported by the effort and money of their citizens, and have an appropriate obligation to them. We have as much right to maintain our border with Mexico as Canada has to maintain their border with us.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 May 07 - 12:45 PM

Send "Anti-Im" back to his home country, assuming they'll let such slime back in.

Are we all having fun?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 May 07 - 12:39 PM

America isn't important enough that the whole world has to figure out how to invade and destroy America. Sorry to tell you this, but you're just not that important, okay?

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 19 May 07 - 12:21 PM

A direct impact of unfettered illegal immigration in the US:

Most illegals are working "off the grid", and don't have health insurance or the funds to pay for medical treatment. Hospitals in the United States are compelled to treat, at no charge if necessary, anyone who enters their emergency rooms. Because of this fact, E rooms in most large hospitals in major cities are clogged with illegal aliens seeking treatment for everything from the flu, to minor cuts and sprains. Emergency rooms are often treated as Doctor's offices would normally be, for repeat treatments and visits.

The impact has several facets. For one, Emergency Rooms are so crowded that standard procedure for someone who is in need of actual emergency assistance is to take a number and get in the back of the line. In addition, between the stress of handling actual emergencies and dealing with scores of routine minor ailments, the E room is becoming an area that many Doctors avoid at all costs, an unfortunate situation since E rooms provide a vital contribution to a Doctor's decision-making and triage skills. But perhaps the biggest negative is the cash drain on hospitals. Many have eliminated Emergency Room service because of the funds hemorrhage that happens there. And the ones that continue Emergency Services must cover this cash loss by jacking up fees in other areas, resulting in sky-high medical costs, out of control health-insurance premiums, and so on.

Illegal immigration is not the sole factor in the escalating crisis in our hospitals here, but it is a major one, and anyone who thinks the presence of 20 million mostly uninsured illegals in this country is only resented by ignorant rednecks, needs to delve deeper into the issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: GUEST,Anti - Im
Date: 19 May 07 - 12:05 PM

Yes, let's make everyone get along. And those who refuse should be killed or locked away from the good people.

The world could be a beautiful, peaceful heaven if we just got rid of the troublemakers.

Half the people I see every day are hispanic. Their ancestors came from Mexico. A quarter of the couples I know are hispanic/anglo. The problem THAT ALL OF US HAVE with the Bush/Kennedy blanket amnesty is that the illegals don't want to live here. They're here TO EARN DOLLARS, which they send money back to their families in Mexico. We, as Americans, resent them taking the jobs that our families would be doing if there weren't so many freakin' illegals around (construction jobs, food service jobs, "manual" type jobs).

Also, Mexican nationals (through no fault of their own) tend to be INCREDIBLY racist. America's been leash-broken on "political correctness" issues, but Mexicans have been media-fed hatred of whites and blacks. They call blacks "blackbirds" and see nothing wrong with it.

I have no doubt that the hispanics are being sucked into the country to be used as pawns in race wars. When Paris Hilton and Britney and the others lose their diversionary appeal, the media will start hyping the "unforseen difficulties" that have arisen from legalizing 30 million criminals. Tuberculosis and leprosy will then be revealed as the epidemic it is (brought here by unscreened criminal illegals), and internment of the "diseased" will begin, then the CIA will stage riots and more hispanics will have to be locked up, and they'll start filling up the concentration camps that litter America with "undesirables." Then the CIA will stage some killings by "Christian hate groups," and THAT'S where they'll make their mistake. Whites and blacks will unite and that'll be the end of the tension between whites and blacks in America, thank goodness. We have more in common than we have differences. Unfortunately, we'll have to unite in order to destroy an aggressive foreign occupation force brought here by our own treasonous government.

Listen to the Terry Anderson Show. He broadcasts on the internet. Black man from southern California. His single issue is immigration. "If you ain't mad, you ain't payin' attention!" He says if he parks on the street in front of his nice little suburban house he gets a ticket. Has to park in his driveway. But just a few blocks away is a huge area of land the environmentalists succeeded in making off limits to building. A nature zone or whatever. And he says it's crawling with hundreds of illegals camped out, cooking, crapping, etc. Broken down cars in the weeds, goats, chickens. And the police are under orders not to bother them, while Anderson gets a ticket if he parks on the street in front of his house.

Illegal immigration and amnesty have nothing to do with race. It's all about waging war against America.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 May 07 - 11:54 AM

Dickey--

Neither Bobert nor anybody else needs to line up scapegoats--we know you have the art of lining up scapegoats mastered. Since that's your answer to any problem you have.

At some point you might want to start thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Bobert
Date: 19 May 07 - 10:45 AM

Dickey,

My standard of living has been going down steadily for the last 6 years... I don't know who has changed the definition of "inflation" under the Bush/corporatist/globalist administartion but it sho nuff ain't the same when "inflation" was one of the things the Repubs beat Jimmy Carter over...

Gasoline prices 2000 were about $1.50... Now they are over $3.00 a gallon...

Health insurance in 2000 was $300 a month... Now it's over a $1000 a month...

Food, electricity, cars, farm machinery, housing, perscroption drugs, etc, etc have all risen much faster than the so called 3% a year that the Bush statisticans have thrown out as if Bush has actually kept prices in check... He hasn't... You know it... I know... Donald Duck knows it...

The standard of living for the average American has been in decline for the last 20 years and especially so under Bush...

No, I'm less worried about taxes than I am "Boss Hog" having unfettered access to power and my money...

And, fir the record, how many Hispanic immigrants are there out there who have become billionaires, por favor??? Sources, por favor???

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 May 07 - 10:18 AM

but I've been reading about the "Mexican Billionaires," and while there don't seem to be a lot of them, they have all the resources tied up so the working people don't have a chance.

I hope this was posted tongue-in-cheek?

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Dickey
Date: 19 May 07 - 09:36 AM

Bobert:

I hope you have your scapegoats all lined up for the time when your taxes triple and your standard of living goes down.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 May 07 - 09:16 AM

"...why not establish more equitable standards of living and more equal rates of pay and generally good conditions around the globe?"

    "Hispanics have become assimilated and aren't willing to work for slave wages anymore..."

          I agree with all of this, but I've been reading about the "Mexican Billionaires," and while there don't seem to be a lot of them, they have all the resources tied up so the working people don't have a chance. That's why I think the world would have been a much better place if Lopez Obrador.
          All of this is beginning to look like Florida 2000. The people vote and somehow the champion of the globalists emerges as the winner, and...

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: artbrooks
Date: 19 May 07 - 08:23 AM

The US legislative process: (1) the originator(s) of an idea (in either the House or the Senate) come up with a bill, (2) this bill is discussed in the appropriate Committee, or is agreed upon in some kind of closed-door session, (3) the bill is introduced on the House or Senate floor, (4) is debated, (5) is (probably) amended, and (6) finally is either passed or not. Then the entire process is repeated in the other side of congress (7-12). After the two Houses of Congress have each passed their bills, which are certainly different, they (13) go to a joint Senate-House Conference Committee which (maybe) reconciles them and (14-15) sends them back for a vote on the compromise legislation. Assuming both houses agree on the compromise, which is far from certain, the approved legislation then (16) goes to the President for signature.

This bill hasn't gotten to (3) yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Bobert
Date: 19 May 07 - 07:53 AM

Yeah, LH...

If the consumption countries were to come up with a "value added tax", meaning that labor would be taxed as a "value added" part of manufaturing at levels that were equal to what labor would cost in the consumption countries, then corporations would take a second look at having goods produced in sweat shops...

Globalization has become another name for exploitation...

One of the reasons that there are so many folks on the send-um'-back-bandwagen is that as Hispanics have become assimilated and aren't willing to work for slave wages anymore...

This isn't about law... It's about money...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 May 07 - 01:59 AM

Rather than trying to figure out who was where first, which can never be sorted out to anyone's satisfaction, why not establish more equitable standards of living and more equal rates of pay and generally good conditions around the globe? Then people would not by under so much pressure to emigrate out of poor countries into rich ones.... ;-)

Oh, but that would mean acting like one united human race, wouldn't it?

Hmmm. Too radical an idea, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: GUEST,Anti - Im
Date: 19 May 07 - 01:51 AM

Figures? We don't need no stinkin' figures. This is the new America, man. Maybe I'll get you some figures manana.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Peace
Date: 19 May 07 - 01:47 AM

OK. Likely not going to get an answer to the question, so I will leave with the following stated: There is NO WAY the bill will get the votes it needs to pass. Have a nice evening, all.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Peace
Date: 19 May 07 - 01:33 AM

What is the source of your facts and figures?

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: GUEST,Anti - Im
Date: 19 May 07 - 01:29 AM

The bill is still "secret," so nobody's sure what's in it. It will be presented at the last minute so all the people in congress can say they didn't have a chance to read it, and some of the riders to the bill will be bank-busters.

And every time you spend money you pay a tax--gasoline tax, road tax, licensing fees, and so on. The trade-off of paid in to paid out for the average immigrant is 1:3. This will bankrupt social security, for starters, with each criminal illegal suddenly able to import 10 family members. Chain immigration worked in Europe, so now it's being used in America. The Norta American Union pact was signed in May of 2005, at Waco, Texas, and this is a way to help the plan along.

For you people to be REALLY politically correct, even American Indians should leave, so the bison can have it back. What a bunch of philosophers.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 May 07 - 12:02 AM

"That's what I think, by God! America for American Indians!"

                      Those of us who are direct descenents of Kennewick Man want to send the Indians back.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 May 07 - 11:59 PM

"Hey, I could get this if these folks had spoken out 10 years ago but I don't get it now other than it sniffs of followerism and racism..."

               1986 is when it really got going. If you didn't hear all of the protest against illegal immigration in the 1990's, I can't imagine where you were.

               The amnesty legislation of 1986 was just one of the many efforts Ronald Reagan made in his never ending attempt to destroy America. So far we've survived it, but this Senate proposal might finally be the end of the world as we know it.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Donuel
Date: 18 May 07 - 10:45 PM

the mex election was stolen in classic W fashion. They stopped all counting closed down media and
VOILA 2 weeks and 4 days later they had a winner.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 May 07 - 10:38 PM

Send 'em all back, I say! If they didn't evolve here, why, send their butts back to where they came from!

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 May 07 - 10:31 PM

I like our senator, Ken Salazar, from Colorado and I respect his judgement. He is Hispanic and a rancher who employs migrant workers. He is reaching out in a bipartisan effort, but also waiting to see how the new bill shakes out:

Sen. Salazar Statement on Today's First-Step Agreement on Immigration Reform

WASHINGTON, D.C. – United States Senator Ken Salazar today released the following statement announcing a broad, bipartisan, first-step agreement on immigration reform legislation:

"Today, we have finally reached broad agreement on immigration reform.

"I have spent countless hours working with my Republican and Democratic colleagues to reach an agreement on a plan that first and foremost secures our borders.

"This bill secures our borders, has tough enforcement of our immigration laws on the border and in the interior, brings the 12 million undocumented workers in our Nation out of the shadows and creates a real immigration system for the future.

"This compromise includes an agreement on a guest worker program that will help our farmers, ranchers and businesses across Colorado and the Nation.

"While I still need to see the final language, today's agreement is an important start in the process of moving this bill forward. This is a compromise that we can take to the floor process where I look forward to working with my colleagues to further improve it."

And, he will improve, I have not doubt.

As to the originator of this thread...phffffft!

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 May 07 - 10:18 PM

I think that the folks who were here first should send ALL the johnny-come-lately immigrants back to where they came from: the Irish, the Germans, the Swedes, the English, the Spanish, the Chinese, the whole bloody lot!

That's what I think, by God! America for American Indians!

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 May 07 - 10:13 PM

Arcturus 12, I think. But it would be interesting to know where Aunty Em got them.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Peace
Date: 18 May 07 - 10:11 PM

Well, I'd like to know where the facts and figures are from.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 May 07 - 10:11 PM

The $5,000 was for illegal immigrants who are already in the country who want to become citizens. They will have to pay a $5,000 fine, leave the United States, and then move to the back of the queue of those who are trying to enter the country legally.

I can see a lot of illegal immigrants just jumping at the chance to do that!!

Great law, that one.

"The law is a ass!"
             —character in a Charles Dickens novel.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Bobert
Date: 18 May 07 - 09:08 PM

Ahhhhhh, not to be splittin hairs, rigster, but I said the 90's...

...not 1986...

This was not only the decade with the largest immigration but also a decade where Hispanics playued a large role in fueling a red hot economy...

Where were the send'um-all-back crybabies that we now hear crying at the top of thier little lungs today back in the ****90's****... It wasn't on their radar...

This is just another round or racism disguised as well-Ralph-we-gotta-respect-the-law folks who don't have a clue what they reaslly believe or they would have been on Clinton's butt over this...

Problem is that history don't lie and the crybabies who now so indignantyly ***demand*** that the law be followed to the tee didn't say jack in the 90's...

Hey, ain't like most of us weren't here in the 90's and they didn't say jack...

Oh, but now we are to get on their 10-years-too-late-bandwagen???

Hey, I could get this if these folks had spoken out 10 years ago but I don't get it now other than it sniffs of followerism and racism...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 May 07 - 08:47 PM

refried beans with maple syrup? oh, no...

I haven't read the bill yet but we were told the other night that it legalizes 12 million, not 30 m, already in the country, provides for a guest worker program but stops illegal entry (yeah, right!)

I understand it does not address the danger of splitting up families. And someone said the other day that each applicant for entry will have to pay $5,000 before getting in. That part doesn't sound logical. Or legal.

Above, Q remarked that we need immigrants to close the shortfall between our retirees and those fewer innumber who will be working to support them. I agree. Immigrants may be our ticket out of that jam.

But $10,000 in taxes? Guest Anti-Jim, when in your whole life have YOU paid a $10,000 income tax?

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 May 07 - 08:15 PM

Just wait. The Mexican are gonna hit ya from the south. Canada's gonna hit ya from the north. You will all be made to eat refried beans with maple syrup on them!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 May 07 - 07:54 PM

Projecting the drop in birth rate in USA, we need every one of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush & Democrats to legalize criminals
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 May 07 - 07:49 PM

"Din't hear any crybabies during the 90's when Hispanics were very much part of the engine that fueled a robust economy..."

          You must not have been listening. The 1986 Reagan amnesty was the biggest disaster in history. A lot of people said so, and the current proposal will just make things worse.