Tone Deaf Leopard (note spelling)

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST,Colin Stanford
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 08:34 AM

Geordie Porgie I'm afraid you are quite wrong MOST decent musicians now avoid the place. If you don't believe me, here is a quote from Sue who runs the Orpington Liberal Club:

"The cost of advertising the club has risen again. Again we are absorbing it. It is easy to do this when we have a thriving, well-attended club.

HOWEVER! Apathy strikes again and attendances are at rock bottom."

This has been cut and pasted from their own website!

Nuff sed!

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 07:16 AM

Aa'hve kept oot of this thread recently coz it got a bit too 'heavy handed.

But if, as Guest Mary Snoggins (Aah bet that's an ussumed name!) says, "If all folk clubs took that attitude then the folk scene would dissapear" (sic)

Most folk clubs DO take that attitude and a lot of folk clubs DO disappear - But the majority disappear because they are BORING the arses off people with their 'No Humour, No fun, Only Tragi-ballads sung here' attitude than with having a laugh on a night oot!

Aah attend a number of folk clubs locally (Hampshire & West Sussex) and the majority of them are fun nights oot where a bunch of 'pals' get together and have a laugh & a sing - One or two clubs take a dim view of any sort of humour or light-heartedness and aah have to say that they are the ones with the poorest 'turn-oot' on a weekly, fortnightly, monthly basis.

The best attended clubs have a range of floor artists from excellent (local and nationally known names) to (very) beginner - But that is the joy of it - watching people develop no matter how long it takes.

One club has such a strong 'fellow-feeling' that they have 3 or 4 BBQ's a year, meals-Out, Christmas party and a BIG New Years Eve Party. Individual birthday/anniversary/etc parties tend to have the same 'usual suspects' attending as go to the club weekly - They have even formed a dance troupe AND a shanty crew

The clubs who have a 'no humour' policy have the same bunch of people every week who (and I've heard one attendee admit) cannot stand each other's company BUT feel that their choice of music would be ridiculed by the 'comedians' at other clubs so will not attend another

I am happy to say that this particular person accepted my invitation to a party at my house where the so-called 'comedians' were also invited and he had a great time with lots of positive interest in his 'style and choice' of material - He was also amazed to be expected to join in and jam - he still goes to the 'old' club but also attends the 'other' to have a laugh and improve his picking style

So let's give TDL a break - Sue is a lovely person, a canny club organiser and who gives a fish's tit if they make people laugh

Rather that than sitting in a club where everyone is so far up themselves that they could wear themselves as wigs - You knaah you are oot there! Syrups !!

And Finally...... Aa've not noticed a marked drop in attendance at Orpington Liberal Club on a Friday night - What I HAVE noticed is that there appears to be less 'drone after drone' of boring 'up-me-own-orifice' tw*ts

Gerruptivit ye big Ponce!

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: breezy
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 06:32 AM

well Guest Boggled, youve obviously seen them for yourself, they've left an impression.

they sure put a song over and leave one spellbound, dont you agree?

P M me for further advice, my rates are reasonable.

Long live T D L

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST,Boggled
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 10:16 AM

Nope, no axes to grind here. I just really wanted to know if Tone Deaf Leopard were some kind of in-joke, the kind of thing that people who have known one another for a long time create that makes people new or returning to a scene not understand it-- or if they and others actually took TDL seriously as a band.

I have learned the following things:

1. Tone Deaf Leopard really appears to take itself seriously as a band, in that it considers itself to be a band.

2. Some members of this community do actually appear to like them and what they do.

3. There are a number of people out there who found them every bit as distasteful as I did.

Assumptions of mine that have been corrected:

1. I assumed TDL couldn't possibly take themselves seriously as a band and really were just around to take the piss out of the folk scene and mock folks who do what they love sincerely. I was wrong. TDL appear to believe they are making a contribution, and their vocal fans agree.

2. I assumed many of the tongue-in-cheek-sounding replies and comments from above in the thread were indications that the entire community realised the band was a joke. I was wrong. These ambiguous responses are apparently completely straightforward, sincere expressions of genuine love for this duo.

3. I assumed that some kind person and straightforward person would come out of the woodwork to explain to us all how this all got started. It seems that no such explanation is necessary, as TDL are a completely sincere part of the local folk scene, and their only wish is to entertain and delight the other deeply committed and sincere fans of folk music in the southeast.

Although I remain Boggled, every learning experience is a good learning experience, I suppose.

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST,mary snoggins
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 09:34 AM

Sorry I am not the same person as Baron Donglar

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: Funny Farmer
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 04:13 AM

It's obvious that baron donglar and mary snoogins are the same person!

That person along with boggle have a peronal axe to grind with certain individuals on the SE London folk scene. I would suggest that they deal with these issues face to face. This forum and thread are just for a bit of fun and for sharing information.

I have seen this duo perform at Dartford. We all thought they were great. They have some excellent material and I'm sure that if they get the exposure that they deserve, then they should reap the financial reward that is long overedue.

If they are worried about publishing their songs or legal stuff to do with using known melodies for parody, then I would be pleased to point them in the right direction, as I worked in the music business for over 30 years.

Just send me a PM.

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST,baron donglar
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 02:36 AM

shows the mentality of some people they think that this is good for them

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST,mary snoogins
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 02:35 AM

thats the point if you dont like it dont come. If all folk clubs took that attitude then the folk scene would dissapear and probably if folks outside of this thread saww you perform there would be more complaints. Maybe you do run a good club stick to tjat dont make folks suffer

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: Girl Friday
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 08:36 PM

We'd like to thank those of you, who have sent messages of support. It seems that most of you unhappy ones don't wish to be identified. I have been running the Folk Club at the Liberal Club for nearly 19 years. It is a popular venue for guest performers. As I do all the bookings, take the money, pay the guests, and when required accomodate them, I have every right to sit at a table of my choosing with my partner. Or is that wrong? If you don't like what we do, don't come. I don't hear anyone complaining outside of this thread.

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST,mary snoggins
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 03:27 PM

Unfair to them how unfair of them to put us through what they obviously beleive is music. I can only reitterate what has been said before please retire before you drive all sensible people away from the folk scene and we end up with no decent clubs to go to.
Its got to the stage where the saying KILROY WAS ERE is to be changed to TDL was ere and everyone has gone away. Dont let that happen retire and leave us happy

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: woodsie
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 02:45 PM

I think you lot are being very unfair on TDL. They try hard and have a good canon of material. They certainly brighten up many a dull evening in otherwise boring folk clubs.

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: breezy
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 12:54 PM

Poor guests, no appreciation of the finer points of T D L

I was like that about Punk , till I too saw the light.

Folk on TDL,

Must tell the Stanfest organisers bout T D L

been a while since I got my last ficks

Claw and draw

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST,mary snoggins
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 10:01 AM

I have read all that has been said and I agree they are and always will be bad beyond belief and after a while it grates on you.
I fthat is what folk is comming to count me out

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 09:45 AM

you say you manage a annual pilgrimage to that club have you read what a regular said they left because of TDL once in a while seeing them OK every week everywhere you go I dont think so even yuou would be pulling your hair out. Please Please TDL RETIRE and give us PEACE

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: stormalong
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 09:26 AM

Let me confess to being an ultra-traditional purist with regard to the material I perform myself (apart from some Peter Bellamy songs which almost amount to the same thing), so there are lots of things I could take exception to and I probably wouldn't feel at home in the majority of folk clubs with their seeming bias towards contemporary material or IMO over-instrumented revivalist approaches. However, I also have a sense of humour and I'd hate to see the folk scene completely dominated by people like myself...

The TDL 'so-bad-they're-good' cult is side-splittingly entertaining, and IMO a lot less irritating than, say, the naff humour attempted by some folkies, the rendition of 'pop' songs or reading from lyric sheets. I manage only an annual visit to the Friday Orpington club, but let me add that Sue is a friendly host who gives a lot of space and encouragement to new faces. There are some very good residents at the club (though not necessarily conforming to my own style preferences), but it is also a great place for newcomers to try out their skills as I did myself.

At the end of the day "talent" as perceived by the voyeur isn't the only thing in folk music. If your only value is expertise you should find another genre, not just another club.

Richard

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST,baron dongler
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 07:31 AM

Its just a case of getting people to tell the truth the brits are good at not upsetting things but its time we made a stand and got tone deaf leppard of the scene. Lets face it Colin who obviously used to go to Orpington liberal folk club has left because of them. If they were a business they would end banckrupt very quickly.reading girl fridays comments about we are just there to entertain??? what!! PLEASE DONT we dont want it anymore take it to a different country PLEASE

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST,Boggled
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 07:22 AM

I dunno. I'm not deeply concerned about the fact that they perform parodies, just that they perform them badly. I've known a lot of musicians who are a fair hand at parody, and some parodies are funny and some parodies are not, and it is my understanding that as long as no substantial money is being made off the lyrics, arrangement or performance, there is no legal issue (I Am Not A Lawyer). It also doesn't concern me what they wear. I wouldn't care if a singer wore clingfilm or sackcloth, as long as they were good. I am just surprised at the size of their apparent fanbase, though I am beginning to have faith that there are more people out there like me after seeing the last few posts to this thread.

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST,baron donglar
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 07:16 AM

and how many others have gone from the folk scene because of this duo
it does not take too long for the word to get about and colin does have a point you should have the consent from the original composer before bastardising their lyrics still with luck they will get a court order from one of them for a lot of money and then maybe they will stop I will go to church sunday and pray

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST,Colin Stanford
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 06:34 AM

Yes my partner and I stopped going to the Orpington Liberal Folk Club about 6 months ago because of this embarracing duo. They have completley taken it over with their claptrap "PERFORMANCES" which I find insulting to the composers of the original songs which they try to parody. They should be reported to the PRS for destroying songs without the composer's permission. They sit like royalty in the middle of the room, at a special table dressed in their weird stuff. They also have started introducing other acts and compering! I have also noticed that the good performers who used to frequent the place on a regular basis have all gone. I'm thinking of writing to the Liberal Party to see if I can get them chucked out!

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST,baron dongler
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 06:16 AM

The point I was trying to make is they make a mockery of the members of folk clubs you know the grass route ones the ones as so plainly put by boggled the ones who pay for a night out and have to listen to that crap and he is right Im sure there are many out there that have turned up for the night seen TDL and walked away thinking what the hell was that and never returned. its acts like Tone Deaf Leppard who have and are giving our great Folk Scene a Very Very Bad name. Give us a break and stop trying to be something you are and never will be any good.Sorry Richard it matters not about the material to some it is funny so get someone else to perform it. If its that good artists will be swarming to perform it?

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 05:37 AM

But the material is funny.

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST,Boggled
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 04:16 AM

Of course things don't have to be played with perfect rhythmic accuracy. In fact, there are a small number of very good novelty acts (Lou and Peter Berryman come to mind) who do perform very funny and entertaining shows built around doing some things badly. However, the difference between an act like the Berrymans and Tone Deaf Leopard is that to begin with, Lou does know how to sing and sings very well; her ability to sing slightly sharp (difficult for a good musician) when a song calls for it makes it funny. Not being able to keep a beat or sing in tune to begin with and continuing to perform anyway is a trick more suited to the karaoke bar than the folk club scene, in my opinion.

I'm sure that TDL's friends will take more issue with this, but I begin to see that's what this really is about. It seems to be about friends continuing to indulgently let an act that isn't very good perform, relying on, as Baron Dongler said above, the good nature of the club atmosphere, to ensure that people will clap politely and make clever jokes about the 'genius' of the material and performance.

And Girl Friday's right, none of the clubs I might not visit because TDL are there or are likely to be, would miss me. I'm not a performer. I'm just someone who sits at the back of the room, pays money to be there, participates in fundraisers and raffles, and enjoys listening, because I love folk music and listening to real people perform it well. Ten or twenty of me, I guess, they'd miss. I wonder how many people like me have walked in and walked out without returning and without saying anything?

In the end I just could not help myself and I had to ask this question. Now after seeing the response above from B.Dongler, I wonder how many people are just too polite to say it and to loyal to their clubs to vote wit their feet. So they sit there, night after night, praying for it to be over quickly. And then they do applaud, because, thank God, it's over.

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST,baron donglar
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 03:17 AM

What a load of cobblers They are and Will always be the laughing stock of what they call the folk world.I believe that this is taking it too far its lke a parent with a child we laugh when we should be
crying and that is what ( if they were honest ) most sensible people do when they see tone deaf leppard for the first and with luck the last time.They use the good nature of the folk clubs to perform.sory wrong word not perform??. the adage once bitten twice shy should be used in this case,once seen never again. Please please please give us a rest and retire. and stop thinking that floor spots are suppoting gigs they are not you get paid for supporting.look at the film quo vadis and listen to the letter sent to nero after the death of a senator. Dont ruin the arts dont perfom anymore give our ears a rest.I know this will start others talking but please be honest with yourselves and TELL THE TRUTH

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 07:34 PM

Me too, Woodsie.

As for Guest(boggled) and the comment "Luckily, I'm good at finding gardens more carefully tended. ;-)", you will find a carefully tended garden in almost any cemetary, but there are very few people queueing to pay for an evening there.....too few laughs!

The fact that you don't like it doesn't make it crap. It's just your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but tolerance, like courtesy, costs nothing.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: woodsie
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 06:51 PM

I second that!

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: Girl Friday
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 08:07 PM

Keep it up you lot, even bad publicity is good publicity. I don't see why Trevor and I should have to defend ourselves, especially as we have a lawyer sticking up for us! We do what we do and if you don't like it Mr Boggled, you are no miss to any of the clubs at which we are welcome! We do what we do and it works for us. Anyhow, who says anything HAS to be played in strict tempo? We set out to make people laugh, and they do plenty of that. It's not easy to win over audiences at top folk clubs, but they love us at Dartford. Everywhere else we play are small, friendly clubs where the audiences are very open minded. We never proffessed to possess any great musical skill, we just set out to entertain. IT SEEMS TO WORK!!!

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: melodeonboy
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 06:25 PM

On the songwriting front, TDL's material stands up well against much of what I hear at folk clubs, and at least gives me a chuckle. "Born to Drink Mild", for example, is a very funny song and could easily have been written by Brian Damage or Peter Buckley-Hill, or even early Mike Harding or Fred Wedlock for that matter.

As far as I know, rude and puerile comedy songs have been part (and an important part) of folk music for generations; they're hardly anything new or shocking. Anyway, if they got rid of them, it'd knock the guts out of my repertoire!

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST,Boggled
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 07:51 AM

Luckily, I'm good at finding gardens more carefully tended. ;-)

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 05:19 AM

You will have to step VERY carefully as TDL play at nearly all the main venues in the south!!!!

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST,Boggled
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 05:00 AM

'Didn't like' is too mild, Guest. I have seen plenty of floor spots I didn't like and I do return to clubs where singers and musicians I don't personally care for play. These two were just unmusical together. It was horrible, awful. I couldn't get away from them fast enough after only two songs.

I will concede on the fellow's guitar playing- it amazed me that he could keep a beat at all with that racket going on so close to his ear. I think if the drummer really wants to come along great, she should learn to keep a steady rhythm and not even attempt syncopation until she can manage to tap along in time with whatever somebody else is playing.

Anyway, I have the answer to my actual question, which was whether or not this 'band' is some gratuitous in-joke among the local mudcatters, or whether people really do enjoy such a tuneless, tasteless novelty act. I remain boggled, but I have to assume that it is the latter, in which case more power to them and I'll be more careful where I step around the folk scene in future.

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST,Mr Grumpy
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 04:57 AM

Look, let's get this straight. Trevor can play some guitar - floorspot level, although he would be better with a better guitar. He can sing in tune (largely) but his voice is not particularly melodious. Sue's timing and pitch are entirely random.

But the material can be very funny. If you find the irony of the 50s/60s rebel now being senile enough to have no bladder control too senstive to be funny, I regret you are being too PC.

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 04:08 AM

Mr Boggled:

You say that you never returned to a folk club because you didn't like one of the floor spots! - I've seen lots of bad floor spots at great clubs and if that had put me off returning I would have missed out on some of the best times of my life!

You say that the Sex Pistols couldn't play or sing! Well I saw them live several times and although I didn't like much of their stuff much, they could certainly play and sing.

Trevor (guitar player with TDL) can certainly play the guitar at a level that is more than acceptable and Sue (who does have problems with syncopation)is coming along great on the precussion.

I admit that the song about incontinence is probably their worst,
but songs such as "Born To Drink Mild" and "Roadkill Cafe" are masterpieces!

Mr Boggled - I'm boggled.

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST,Boggled
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 03:25 AM

Witty and entertaining? I don't find songs full of toilet humour witty, but I know that many people might disagree with me on this, we live in a world full of people who think reality tv is great. What I really don't understand is how people who can't sing or play their instruments can get spots at folk clubs and festivals? OK, sure, the Sex Pistols couldn't sing or play their instruments either, but at least there was a relevant message in there for some. TDL's message seem to be, 'We like to piddle on other people's furniture!'

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 07:27 PM

Oh, let us be fair - their composition is very witty and entertaining. Sure, it is in bad taste, but if humour has to be in good taste it will fly like a plaster duck. Were ANY of the comedy greats (NB, TDL may not be great comedy, but the jury is out on the magnitude) in good taste?

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST,Boggled
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 06:24 PM

This thread fascinates me. I can only hope it is some kind of joke gone too far. I moved back to London this year after several years away and one of the first folk clubs I went to featured this "band" in a floor spot. It's been a long time since I heard anything so awful. I never went back to that club and I never will. Surely people don't really book this duo as a serious band, but more as some sort of tastless in-joke comedy act that isn't really all that funny? I really don't understand it at all. Perhaps they are meant to make beginning and weak performers feel more confident (since nothing could possibly be WORSE than their combination of poor taste and lack of musicality)? I remain boggled, but I keep this thread around-- it helps me plan where NOT to go.

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: Girl Friday
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 03:34 PM

Had a great time at the Greyhound on Saturday. Thanks a lot. I think we're going to make a folkie out of cub Ben. He actually asked for chords to "Rare Ould Times", sourced from digitrad of course,and we suggested "Fiddlers Green" after I'd a call from John Conelly.He is booked in for Friday Folk Orpington on October 27th. Don't forget T.D.L. July 21st same place.

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: Girl Friday
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 09:18 PM

Wow!!! What a great few days!!! First Knockholt, where we were able to be with friends and sing round a bonfire, also put together and rehearse our 30 minute festival spot for Sunday. We had a great time at Leigh - lovely festival.

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: Girl Friday
Date: 08 Jun 06 - 08:06 PM

Hello Jo-Jo and all you T.D.L. Fans. We love coming to Essex!!!!
Thanks for your messages on the Guestbook. It does work. No-one else can be bothered to sign it. We've given cards to Les Barker and Martin Carthy. Hope they can be arsed!!!!

Sue and Trev

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: jojofolkagogo
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 11:54 AM

They keep coming over to ESSEX !!!!    GREAT FOR US !!!


hELLO sUE AND tREVOR

jO-jO

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: Girl Friday
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 03:35 PM

We wish! It gets to Wednesday, and pisses with rain, and we think "Can't be arsed - arsed - arsed -arsed." We will however try to come to the Dealers concert. They were very good at Rochester.

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: Kenneth Ingham
Date: 02 Jun 06 - 02:37 PM

They haven't been at the Tudor Barn for a while now, we miss them. They must be on the way to stardom!

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: Girl Friday
Date: 21 May 06 - 05:01 PM

There is a more up to date programme of events for Leigh on Sea Folk Festival with several links on both websites. www.orpingtonfridayfolk.bravehost.com

www.tonedeafleopard.bravehost.com.

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST
Date: 18 May 06 - 02:46 AM

Yikes!

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: Girl Friday
Date: 17 May 06 - 08:11 PM

Hello all you lot. Keep the good work up.All publicity is good, and frankly, as long as we can make you smile, we don't care. Breezy - if you want another gig, there's no trick to it- you know the phone number, or, go to "20th anniversary" and sign the guestbook. Just as long as you don't publicise yourself all over Orpington and get me into trouble with The Management, again. Be afraid- our first c.d. is in the making!

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: The Barden of England
Date: 15 May 06 - 12:37 PM

Oh they're real all right - and they come with a health warning.

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 May 06 - 05:41 PM

Depends on your definition

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 06 - 12:42 PM

Is this a real band?

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: breezy
Date: 13 May 06 - 05:32 PM

at your peril !

When's breezy on ?

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: Girl Friday
Date: 13 May 06 - 05:29 PM

Both the Tone Deaf Leopard and Friday Folk websites are being regularly updated, with new pages added. www.tonedeafleopard.bravehost.com

www.orpingtonfridayfolk.bravehost.com

View them now.

Subject: RE: Tone Def Leppard
From: Girl Friday
Date: 16 Apr 06 - 02:44 PM

We've been told that the train is starting from North Weald Station. This is very near to the M25, which, I believe,intersects the M4 at Heathrow. It may be even possible to re-route the train...
             BE AFRAID!!!