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BS: Football without tears
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Den Date: 22 Jun 00 - 08:54 PM Well said Ickle. Den |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Linda Kelly Date: 22 Jun 00 - 02:00 PM I think the problems that we have seen manifest themselves on the pitch go far deeper than football, any town centre on a Saturday night will be witness to that. Much as I hate to say it, and please god that I might be wrong, but our whole history and tradition is based on defeating our European brothers and sisters and on our success in doing so since century upon century, on confrontation and on disrespect for others. Thatcher threw the evil of Europe in our faces for 18 years, the tories continue to breed distrust and to cling onto soveriegnty, our press and media including the BBC do nothing but harp on about the war and the defeat of Germany or about our imperial past as if we did nothing else.Tony Adams, it was reported in the press was reading Henry V (which was a surprise since he looks like he can barely read at all) and was seen dressed like Richard the Lionheart in the papers. The abuse of other nations inthis country is terrible and it has to stop. We need to clamp down on our military traditions our trooping of the colour and frankly the Royal family has to go. Labour is too slow in transforming these things. The history we should be teaching our children should not be about what our fathers did in the war but the thousands of achievements that we have made through the centuries. We are all guilty of generating this climate of confrontation - do you know I cannot remember the last time I had a conversation with my father and he didn't mention the war -how sad is that . it's as if nothing else in the fifty years since has justified his existence. Meanwhile while we've been looking back, the rest of Europe have been getting on with there's and moving forward. I know that this is a bit of a rant, but I saw Panorama and I was ashamed that these people took pride in calling themselves English - they were disgusting pigs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: The Shambles Date: 22 Jun 00 - 04:27 AM I do not wish to give the impression in any way that I am defending the behaviour of the type experienced by Mrs Mcmoo above and that we saw for ourselves on TV. Some of their reasoning was simply surreal but it has to be recognised that they are certain that they are right.
I think this bizarre concept of being 'at war' with the rest of the world. Expecting gratitude from Europe for 'liberating' them and at the same time being proud of being thought of as the scourge of Europe, is fortunately confined to England. It is to England's shame that we have not been able (or willing) to deal with and contain it, up to now.
However the problem does not go away because England are no longer in the competition, though judging by some of yesterday's games the football has certainly improved.
At one of the matches yesterday, two angry supporters came on to the pitch. One of them was only prevented from assaulting the referee by one of the opposite team's players. Very bravely, as this player was the one that had just scored the winning goal. The referee was later seen to be bleeding from a head wound after having been hit by a missile thrown from the crowd!
It is how the authorities deal with these incidents, directly connected to the football that will be watched very closely. For genuine supporters of English football can only imagine the reaction had these incidents been inflicted by 'the English'? I can't even imagine how 'the mob' will view it?
The team in question (although they did not realise it at the time), have qualified for the next stage. Had The England team qualified and this had happened at their match, I suspect that the England team would have already been thrown out of the event? Watch this space……………………… |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Terry K Date: 22 Jun 00 - 01:28 AM Well-meaning liberals in the 60s and 70s took a deal of social order and discipline out of the schools in particular and out of society in general in the cause of "civil liberties". The resulting increase in hooliganism is a natural by-product. The police and the Courts have been forced into taking a namby-pamby approach to miscreants so there are no longer the same disincentives to bad behaviour in England. When I am in other European countries I can sense a more defined social order - people just seem to be more self-disciplined. I don't say that the 60s revolution was wrong, but am not surprised that there have been some predictable downsides. Terry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: GUEST,Mrr Date: 21 Jun 00 - 01:30 PM And what does everyone think about the LA riots? Basketball riots? What's next, tiddlywinks riots? Maybe the LA cops should have been blowing a different kind of smoke... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: GUEST,Airto Date: 21 Jun 00 - 10:31 AM Fionn, Perhaps you didn't see the Panorama programme last night, which showed footage from a hidden camera which followed England supporters around for the last ten days or so. It seems that many of them were not as blissed out in Eindhoven as we thought (see the start to this thread). There might have been only a few arrests and no large outbreaks of violence but it's not true that there was no trouble. Arthur O'Malley |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Lady McMoo Date: 21 Jun 00 - 07:24 AM Fionn, As someone who lives in Belgium I would be interested in your views as to why there was trouble in Belgium (not yesterday I note) and not Holland. Peace mcmoo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Lady McMoo Date: 21 Jun 00 - 07:24 AM Fionn, As someone who lives in Belgium I would be interested in your views as to why there was trouble in Belgium (not yesterday I note) and not Halland. Peace mcmoo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 21 Jun 00 - 07:05 AM Arthur, Eufa's problem was solved for them the right way, on the pitch, but expelling England would indeed have been passing the buck. Note that there was no trouble in Holland, only Belgium. Even more significant, there would have been no trouble if the tournament had been in England. Witness Euro96, when it actually was in England. It went like a dream, as the World Cup will if it gets here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Wolfgang Date: 21 Jun 00 - 05:25 AM Following McGrath: Maybe next time we should sing the infamous first verse of our anthem ("Germany above all") instead of the now official peaceful third verse. Or even better, we adopt the GDR's National Anthem for our team for it starts like that: "Resurrected from ruins..." Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: GUEST,Airto Date: 21 Jun 00 - 04:10 AM Billy Connolly reached the same conclusion as you, McGrath, about God Save The Queen. His proposal was to have her gracious majesty come onto the pitch on horseback singing la la la-la la la la to the Archers theme tune. While still on the subject of anthems, the very fact that you could hear the Romanian one being sung loud and clear last night was refreshing. Normally at England matches the opposition anthem is drowned out by whistling. Not so last night. Something else very refreshing was Kevin Keegan's reaction to England's defeat. I thought he was very frank and realistic about his team's ability. He said his team wasn't good enough and first class commitment couldn't compensate for lack of technique. Another refreshing thing was BBC having Johann Cruyff on their studio panel. Paying a Dutchman to tell some home truths. And nobody blamed the referee either. Things are looking up. The decent, broad-minded element in English football are starting to assert themselves. Arthur O'Malley |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Jun 00 - 07:10 PM And here's a link to a site with the words in Romanian as well as English, and with the tune, midi or choir versions.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: The Shambles Date: 20 Jun 00 - 07:05 PM That explains it. Please don't let our 'yobs' get hold of it. Ah but there are far too many big words there for them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Jun 00 - 06:51 PM Ah, but didn't the Romanians make a far better hand of singing their national anthem? I reckoned they couldn't lose after this. And checking out the words just now, I see why:
"Awaken Thee, Romanian!"
Awaken thee, Romanian, shake off the deadly slumber Thta's what I call a stirring set of words to get the old sinews going. And I'm sure they work a lot better in Romanian. And the tune matched it for fervour.
God save our gracious Queen... - just doesn't really measure up, does it? It means the poor old English team effectively start a goal down.
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: The Shambles Date: 20 Jun 00 - 06:32 PM We won a game against a team that played worse than we did and lost two games to better teams. End of story Now hopefully everyone else can enjoy themselves and the football? Is there ever foorball without tears? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: GUEST,Phil Neville Date: 20 Jun 00 - 04:48 PM "I was alright, for a while, I could smile for..or..or a whi.i..ile." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Brendy Date: 20 Jun 00 - 02:14 PM Is there life after Rodney Marsh? B. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: The Shambles Date: 20 Jun 00 - 01:46 PM Good points. Nice to find another QPR supporter too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Brendy Date: 20 Jun 00 - 01:01 PM I saw an interview this morning on BBC World, where Tim Sebastian interviewed the author of 'The Crew', and 'The Barmy Army' (I forget yer man's name, now). But yer man was of the opinion that peer pressure, exerted by the fans themselves, could hold the key. Interesting point, given that the guy is a self-proclaimed National Front sympathiser, and therefore, probably knows what he is talking about. B. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Lady McMoo Date: 20 Jun 00 - 12:39 PM Living in Brussels I have witnessed some of the behaviour of these louts. Alcohol may well have something to do with it but that's not the whole story. I have watched Ireland play several times where the fans (true fans in this case) have had plently to drink but without the slightest hint of any trouble or unpleasantness. Mrs McMoo took a school party to Ostend last week and had the misfortune on their return to be sharing a carriage with some so-called English fans. These individuals distinguished themselves with a barrage of beer swilling (stuff they brough with them in this case) belching, farting, shouting, insults to the locals, e.g "...If it wasn't for the English you'd be Krauts..." before picking on and intimidating a half-Belgian, half-Japanese female student in my wife's group and scaring half to death a couple of young asian moslem girls who'd just made their first visit outside Brussels. Up in town on Saturday many hundreds of English fans arrived during a very hot afternoon. There were high spirits and a lot of drinking and chanting but no trouble that I saw then. I'm sure the majority were perfectly genuine and normal fans although a clear minority were already out of their heads at this stage. This however was probably five or six hours before the match on a very hot day. I'm quite sure the vast majority of fans are quite innocent. However it is also clear that there is a significant minority who come looking for trouble. The same element can be seen in almost any decent-sized English town late on a Friday or Saturday night around pub closing time. Solutions? I don't really know but would be interested to hear suggestions. It seems to me that there are many countries where this football thuggery seems much less prevalent. However it seems to have become an integral part of the English football scene. Peace mcmoo (expatriate Irish Londoner and QPR supporter - no don't mock the afflicted as Frankie Howard used to say!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Grab Date: 20 Jun 00 - 10:30 AM Morris dancers aren't sheep. They're like little lambs, skipping and jumping, bless their little fluffy ears... Grab. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: The Shambles Date: 20 Jun 00 - 02:15 AM I thought that was a reference to 'New Labour'? After last night's events, will Turkey now be kicked out too? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Jun 00 - 08:19 PM "Mindless moronic sheep who go around dressed in red-and-white shirts getting pissed and chanting outside the pub." - Why do unkind remarks about Morris Dancers have to get dragged into this?...
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: sophocleese Date: 19 Jun 00 - 07:24 PM I think perhaps the gov't should introduce a mentor program for the fans. They should get a profile of a typical fan/hooligan and only allow those who fit the profile to matches as long as they are paired with another atypical fan. So if, say, most hooligan style fans are young men using football as an excuse to let loose than every male between the ages of 18 and 36 should not be allowed into a match unless accompanied by a woman at least 40 years old who they must sit beside. Give me five years and I'll volunteer to chaperone. Or maybe for every English game you travel to see live you must sit in a frilly living room drinking nothing stronger than tea and watch a game that doesn't involve England at all. Perhaps the fear that others have of the fans (fear which is well founded, I'm not arguing that) adds fuel to the situation when it leads only to increased isolation. More thought, and creative thought, needs to be put into prevention, rather than retribution, and England does need to take responsibilty for the persistent illegal actions of its citizens abroad. I like the Dutch approach because it was aimed at preventing the vandalism before it started and tried to cut down on the momentum that mob activity develops. Just so English Mudcat posters don't think that I only consider English fans awful I'll let you know that in Canada we have running debates about the acceptable and unacceptable levels of violence in Hockey. This led to the famous joke "Hey did you see what happened last night, I was watching a fight and a hockey game broke out!" In Canada a few years ago I watched hockey on television and was appalled at what the Canadian team did on the ice and what the Canadian commentators were saying about it. The team was frequently in flagrant violation of the rules and yet the commentators were complaining about the referee. At the same time as this was happening the local newspaper was running a three part series asking why young hockey players were showing less and less respect for the referees. And then again look what the Belgian goalie just did to the Turkish player. Yikes! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: GUEST,The Shambles Date: 19 Jun 00 - 06:51 PM Sorry about the above. It was me honest. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: GUEST Date: 19 Jun 00 - 06:49 PM As far as the football goes, I look forward to the England team's departure for then I can enjoy the tournament. It is a great shame that the media do build up the games to be battles and encourage the idea that we have some God-given right to be up there with the best. The view should be encouraged that if we lose, it is because the other team was better. Other countries do not seem to have a problem with this concept.
The mob has very little to do with the football. Excluding the England team would not hurt the mob. It would only mean that the mob will have won. I always thought that it should be the guilty that receives the punishment? Why are we looking around for someone to blame? Is it not obvious who is breaking the law? Do we now look to blame and punish the criminal's country or team, for their crimes?
I do not wish these parasites on anyone and I wish that they were not doing what they are doing but is it really that difficult to deal with a relatively small number of law-breakers? There will be further incidents. The only question will be is, to what scale?
There is a strange sort of justification that they use. They think that they are no worse than the other country's' crazy fringe and that they have been singled out. The European ban on English club sides was considered to be unfair and that fuels them on. Banning the national side would really give them a cause to fight for. They don't appear to be bright enough to realise that their actions are just confirming everyone else's view.
The obvious answer, is it always the best one? There is not easy-fix to this one. The situation that Arthur describes has not changed from before the event started. Whoever decided that the selected towns were OK to stage the event must stick to that decision and take that responsibility, right through to the end. They and we may have hoped these scenes would not happen but are we really surprised now they have? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Woozel Date: 19 Jun 00 - 03:56 PM Why not just take their passports away? OK they'll have already committed some act of hooliganism, but if passports were taken away for a period of say five years (meaning they couldn't even go abroad for a legitimate holiday) then they might start to think before they throw!! Imagine having to stay here 365 days a year with our weather! I seriously think there's a lot more our authorities could do to help the situation. It would be a shame for the majority to have to suffer for the acts of the minority - but then what's new in that? I deal with it all the time as a teacher.
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: GUEST,Airto Date: 19 Jun 00 - 01:18 PM Shambles, I can understand perfectly well that throwing England out of the competition would indeed be unfair on the England players and on the majority of people supporting the team. And I'm sure you're right that the whole controversy must have a negative effect on the team's performance. But would it really be passing the buck to throw them out? If the English can't/won't sort the problem why should it be left to others? Think of the town of Charleroi. A depressed place with 20 per cent unemployment trying to develop new industry to replace the old. Its delight at being included as a host venue and given a chance of positive publicity immediately turns to horror on learning that England will be playing there twice. Anticipation turns to apprehension. Extra security measures cost millions, never mind the damage caused. The population stays indoors for the weekend or gets the hell out of town. Nobody comes to visit. Who should be responsible for this? Already this year there were vile happenings in Istanbul and Copenhagen. People in Belgium still haven't forgotten the 30+ deaths in the Heysel stadium. I haven't forgotten a match being stopped and abandoned in Dublin. The common factor in all cases was involvement of English fans. Brendy above has a point. The tabloid press express the same sort of attitudes to England victories as the hooligans. The people we see on our screens causing this mayhem do not spring from a vacuum and the English need to take the problem more seriously. Meanwhile, if necessary the rest of Europe should be allowed get on with the party in peace. By the way, LTS, I think the fans would go home if England were no longer involved. People tend not to book for fixed durations when going to events like this. Arthur O'Malley |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Grab Date: 19 Jun 00 - 12:19 PM I don't see why anyone should really care, deep down, who wins, unless you're actually playing or you're a personal friend of the guys playing. Whilst it's nice to have 'your' team win, it's much better to be watching an interesting, exciting game with ppl demonstrating some real skill, even if it's the other side. Maybe I'm just too reasonable. And as far as supporting a team goes, I'm an anti-supporter. I don't care who wins, but I'd like England to lose, horribly, bcos it'll really piss off those mindless moronic sheep who go around dressed in red-and-white shirts getting pissed and chanting outside the pub. If anything gets under the skin of these obnoxious animals, then I'm all for it. No joke. England getting chucked out of the competition bcos of the behaviour of those so-called 'fans' would suit me down to the ground - maybe it would get them a dose of reality and raise their mental age. It amazes me that the western world slates Africa for tribal violence, whilst football is such a source of irrational violence over here. Grab. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Liz the Squeak Date: 19 Jun 00 - 09:09 AM It won't solve the problem. If you have booked 2 weeks abroad to follow a team and they are knocked out in the first three days, would you just go home? LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: The Shambles Date: 19 Jun 00 - 09:01 AM The idea of throwing a team out of a sporting competition that they have qualified for, IS unfair, a knee-jerk reaction and it is 'passing the buck'. Even if this reaction is a completely understandable one.
However England have yet to qualify for the next stage and may do everyone a favour by now not doing so. It must be very difficult to motivate yourself to a victory when everyone but you and your genuine supporters obviously want you to lose and go away.
English club teams have in the past been excluded from European events over the conduct of their, so called fans. I feel this ban is one of the reasons why the current situation is now so bad. This stupidity may sadly be the only thing that the English are now accepted as being the world leaders in but it never was just confined to the English.
Ironic indeed that the England football teams, whilst not winning the tournaments do usually win the trophy awarded for 'fair play'.
In fact little if any of the trouble now occurs at or on the way to the football match. A person who starts or takes part in a riot, assaults another person or damages property is not a 'fan' but a criminal.. There are procedures in all European countries to deal with criminals. Why then are the 800 or so 'fans' deported back to the UK not, even now criminals?
The authorities that want the UK authorities to prevent people leaving England, when they have not yet committed a crime are now returning them, after they have committed a crime. As far as I am aware these people can just go back?
The issue is not really whether excluding The England team is unfair but whether it will solve the problem long term or make it worse? I can see the attractions this measure holds for our political leaders but it is their problem to solve, not one to pass to the football players. I don't really think the rest of the world understands how people in England feel about inflicting these parasites on them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Brendy Date: 19 Jun 00 - 08:49 AM Headline of 'The People' on Sunday: HUN NILFootball isn't a game to the English, it's a war, and the English media, and many of it's fans treat it as such. Who else but the English would think of playing 'The Dambusters' incessantly, intermingled with 6 or 7 run throughs of 'God Save The Queen'.It was an interesting development that many of the English 'fans' deported from Belgium never had any prior history as 'hooligans'. Does this mean that all English fans are now regarded as potential hooligans? Has the 'profile' changed? I have been waiting years for FIFA, or UEFA to come up with this suggestion. Had it not been for the huge sponsorship of the likes of MacDonalds, Pepsi, Sony, who, I'm sure, don't want their brand names associated with violence, this move would have been longer in coming. The English have to change their attitude to sporting events, from the media to the man on the street. And they have to stop believing they are so damned superior in everything that they do. B. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: GUEST,Airto Date: 19 Jun 00 - 04:41 AM Liz, I don't think UEFA, in threatening to throw England out of the competition, are acting unfairly. The record of English fans abroad is uniquely bad going back over decades. When the World Cup was held in the US in 1994 the organisers expressed relief that Iran had failed to qualify and said this news was only bettered by England's failure to qualify as well. It is not good enough for British governments to say to the Dutch and Belgian police we can't stop our troublemakers travelling but when they terrorise your cities we'll tell you, after the event, how we think you should have dealt with it. Ickle Dorrit, you're right, Portugal beat England because they were better. Having beaten a poor German side on Saturday night the English media (alright, Sky News, I shouldn't generalise) have already taken it for granted that they will now proceed to beat Romania. Do they never learn? Shambles, I too go through similar anguish and elation when Ireland are involved in big matches and I don't consider myself a nationalistic type. Like yourself, I don't have any reassuring explanation for it. All I can say is that the Irish team's successes a while back gave the whole country a lift. Its failures, on the other hand, are not treated as national humiliations. As McGrath says, it's easier when expectations are not set too high. Arthur O'Malley |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Liz the Squeak Date: 19 Jun 00 - 03:27 AM Just heard last night that EUEFA are planing to chuck England out if there is any more violence. I trust that this will apply to all teams when their fans misbehave.... The suggestion of playing the matches closed (i.e., no spectators) and having it televised in coffee bars, school playground or those rooms with the padded walls, hasn't occurred to them yet.... Personally, I read a book, looked at the telly occasionally and just said 'oh' when we scored... boring fart, aren't I?! LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Terry K Date: 19 Jun 00 - 12:54 AM "....the red and white train came over the hill Eng-er-land one, Germany nil and she blew, blew, blew, blew, blew". Seriously, I'm getting pissed off with people who denigrate (a) sport in general (b) English team performances in particular. What would you think of sports fans who denigrate music? On Saturday, England played the West Indies in a Test Match (that's er cricket), South Africa in a Rugby Union Test, and Germany in the Euro 2000 football. Now tell me, how are the West Indies at Rugby Union and how are they at football? How would South Africa get on at football? How about a West German Test cricket side - or Rugby Union? And of course we'll be at Wimbledon and our lads will get stuffed but at least we enter everything and give it a go. I guess this is NOT the time to mention the World Series which nobody else in the world gets to enter. Cheers, Terry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Rollo Date: 18 Jun 00 - 08:27 PM Har! Now I got the answer! Cannabis! For a terrible moment I thought our boys didn't even try to defeat the english on saturday because they can't do better... But hark! Now I find out that you anglosaxon tricksters had bought a container of graas in holland and smuggled into the german team cabin... But you all have made one joke too much! But we will take revenge... next time our teams meet again we will stuff all your players with Kraut and Wurst until they can't do anymore than roll around a bit! *BFG*
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Jun 00 - 08:12 PM I'm afraid the stick-with-your-team thing only applies to fans - the star players move around to follow the money, or their contracts are traded off by the owners.
It's an odd blend of big business and tribalism, and other things get caught up in it, like fascists using football hooliganism as a stomping ground and a recruiting ground, and that gets linked to particular teams at various times.
Latest thing now is the English team has been warned that, if there's any more trouble from the fans in Belgium, they are likely to be excluded from the competition, which would really make the shit hit the fan.
Meanwhile, so far as I've seen, there's been no significant trouble in Holland, taking us back to the opening post in this thread. And some of the countries who've been playing their games in Holland have fans with reputations pretty well as bad as the English.
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Den Date: 18 Jun 00 - 07:57 PM Actually Mark the poor guys only crime was to score an own goal in the game against the USA. Den |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Mark Cohen Date: 18 Jun 00 - 06:43 PM This is wonderful, it's like being at a party where everybody's having fun but they're all talking a different language, one you barely know. It reminds me a little of the Marmite thread, though not quite as colorful. I'm probably a little more familiar with The Game than many Americans, as I referee youth matches (under 12 -- I can't keep up with the big kids!) Sadly, in the States, the old "live or die with your team" allegiances and rivalries have become less meaningful, with players hopping from team to team in search of bigger bucks, and the hell with the fans. It's not what it was when I was a kid. But then again, what is? I think the Women's World Cup final in Los Angeles had some of the excitement that is seen elsewhere in the world, and I think that's because of all the young soccer players coming up in this country. Still, there is something scary about the level of fanaticism of some football fans in Europe and Latin America: didn't somebody shoot the guy who missed the penalty kick in World Cup '94? Cannabis, eh? Maybe then we should have a Hawaiian team...! Aloha, Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Jun 00 - 06:12 PM Don't analyse it, go with the flow, Shambles. It's to do with solidarity, and that's not the same as nationalism. You don't have to come from a particular locality to support a particular football team - but once you've decided to support one, you're stuck with it for life. It's to do with bonding, like baby ducks... Anyway, if you haven't got a team to care about in a contest, there's no fun in it. Though having a team you desperately want to lose can be as strong a bond. I once asked mey son if he'd sooner Spurs won or Arsenal lost, and after a bit of hesitation he said it was more important to have Arsenal lose. (Any Americans wading through this, these are two London football teams with a strong tribal antagonism. Well founded antagonism...) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: The Shambles Date: 18 Jun 00 - 06:23 AM I wish that it didn't but the fortunes of the England football team really matter to me. There is no rational explanation for it, it just does. I sit and go through agonies and get totally exhusted. It is also so much at odds with my generally anti nationlist views? Can anyone help explain this?
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: The Shambles Date: 17 Jun 00 - 05:54 PM I think they must have followed my wife's advice. She said they should not try to score too early. I am very sorry for inflicting our rubbish on Europe and I am not referring to the football team. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: The Shambles Date: 17 Jun 00 - 05:49 PM The German team was worse than we were?
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Woozel Date: 17 Jun 00 - 06:58 AM Yes the Foxes are none other than Leicester City. I'm still sobbing in my beer at the departure of Martin. But it's nice to see that some of our players are taking part in the Footie. I think Holland must have been taking some of their freely available stuff if last nights match was anything to go by. So far I think the whole things been disappointing. What happens if Holland end up playing their matches in Belgium? Can they take the odd spliff with them and their own weak beer? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 16 Jun 00 - 07:42 PM It's not all bad the footie fever. I was driving back home today through a small Essex town when I see this big fella waiting to cross the road - a Sikh, with the headgear and a beard and all.
And as I pass by, I see he's wearing a T-shirt with a big English flag on it. (I don't mean the Union Jack, but the Red Cross of St George.as illustrated on this page)
It's going to be interesting to see how the violence compares in Belkgium and Holland, the two host nations - Hollands got a ban on anything other than weak beer, and no hassles about the odd spliff; Belgium they're selling Belgium beer freely, which gets up to 12% at times - but striictly no dope. So far the only violence seems to be in Belgium. How surprising.
I want to see Slovenia win myself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: GUEST,Den at work Date: 16 Jun 00 - 03:43 PM Wasn't that Sweden v Turkey game absolute misery. It was as much a bad advert for international football as the Slovenia v Yugoslavia game was great. I don't think we have any worries about England and Turkey meeting up in the tournament. Neither one has a chance of progressing in my oppinion. For what its worth Den. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Brendy Date: 16 Jun 00 - 08:45 AM OK, now. A big drag.....Hold it in.....hold it in.... keep it there....yes, that's right....and.. Exhale!!! And then a few Cokes, or Pepsis, or whatever your non-alcoholic poison is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: GUEST,Ickle Dorritt Date: 16 Jun 00 - 07:41 AM Fortunately, I am psared england v germany due to the Beverley Folk festival -far more civilized but thesame quantity of alcohol. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Skipjack K8 Date: 16 Jun 00 - 06:48 AM Ickle, I had to ask around here, but apparently the foxes are none other than Leicester. Another paint drying excercise, perhaps. I watch Leeds a bit, including the disgraceful Galatasaray debacle, so, yes, I would sooner see England crash out than meet Turkey, as that will surely be a bloodbath off, and probably on the pitch. Echo your sentiments, there, Airto. Hope the dope works again for the Germany England match tomorrow. Skipjack |
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Subject: RE: BS: Football without tears From: Wolfgang Date: 16 Jun 00 - 03:50 AM Some of you English (British?) Mudcatters sound more desperate than needed. If you happen to have seen how the other two teams in your group played that should give you a lot of hope. Wolfgang |