BS: Sunni-Arab-U.S. coalition forming

Subject: RE: BS: Sunni-Arab-U.S. coalition forming
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 01:09 AM

I find it interesting that there is so much focus on the revenge killings by Shiites. If you google, you'll find that although 70 Sunnis were killed, it was after the Sunnis killed about 200 Shiites. Why are the Sunnis killing Shiites, Ron?

That is a generalization but why does the U.S. focus on Shiites when it is only after a Sunni masacre that the Shiites retaliate?

Believe me, if the Pesh Merga and the Mahdi Militia join forces, the U.S. is in real trouble. Once they gain strength its only a matter of time before the Sunnis join in, too. Only this time they'll all be fighting the infidel.

Subject: RE: BS: Sunni-Arab-U.S. coalition forming
From: Peace
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 11:55 PM

Sunnis, Shi'ites, Kurds, Americans

Rooster, Dog, Cat, Ape

Huh!

Subject: RE: BS: Sunni-Arab-U.S. coalition forming
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 11:43 PM

Iraqi police--at this point almost entirely Shiite. Murders of Sunnis by Shiite militia in the Iraqi police--no hard facts that I know of. But US commanders have been told of being called by the Iraqi police to fights in Sunni mosques--always Sunni, never Shiite. People are killed. And the cause of the disturbance is never clear.

I bet you can find articles (on the problem of killing of Sunnis by Shiite militias in the police) on the net. Maliki has often promised to purge the Shiite militias in the police--and there's been no follow-through that I know of.

My source--as usual, the WSJ.

Subject: RE: BS: Sunni-Arab-U.S. coalition forming
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 10:00 PM

He has obviously sold his soul to the devil.

Isn't that part of the Skull and Bones oath, where the pledges swear to put the good of the elite ahead of God, Country, and legal or moral right?

(Excuse me please, just a sarcastic comment.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Sunni-Arab-U.S. coalition forming
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 09:47 PM

Fair enough, Ron. Any policeman implicated in the murder of anyone (including Sunnis) should be prosecuted. I doubt if this is going to happen if Blackwater's people are beyond the law or if the U.S. can detain people illegally.

I didn't know the Shiite militia had infiltrated the Iraqi police. I thought the militia was acting on it own. Have there been Sunni murders by Shiite policeman? Is it common or have there been a few incidents or what? I want to know more about this.

What is the composition of the Iraqi police? I figured that there were not too many Sunnis due to the their disbanding when Saddam was overthrown. I didn't realize they were still being discriminated against. I thought they were actively being recruited.

Just how many innocent Sunni deaths have been attributed to Iraqi police?

Subject: RE: BS: Sunni-Arab-U.S. coalition forming
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 08:11 PM

How can you purge the Shiite militias from the Iraqi police? By prosecuting any policeman implicated in the murder of any Sunnis not accused of any crime.

And if you don't, what kind of police force do you have? Would it be OK with you if you were targeted for being Protestant, Catholic, atheist, French, English, etc.--and not for any crime you personally were accused of? Would you trust the police? And if you were armed would you be willing to give up your weapons? I wouldn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Sunni-Arab-U.S. coalition forming
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 03:10 PM

I can split normal Sunni Iraqis from al-Qaeda and I do think Maliki can. What confuses the situation is that Sunnis cannot separate themselves from the militant Sunnis. How do you distribute the oil income fairly if that income goes to those who buy weapons to oppress Shiites?

Its the U.S. who is confused and continues to fuel the divisions. Iran wouldn't need to protect Shiites by providing weapons to them if the U.S. would allow the current, democratically elected government to do their job. How can you purge the Shiite Militia from the Iraqi police? Whats left? Sunni terrorist?

I think these decisions are best left to the Iraqis. Its their country. We've seen where backing Sunnis has led us before. Remember Saddam?

Subject: RE: BS: Sunni-Arab-U.S. coalition forming
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 02:08 PM

Any solution that excludes Sunnis condemns rump Iraq to constant war--until "ethnic cleansing" is complete. If you don't want Iraqi Sunnis to give any support to al-Qaeda, you have to give them some assurance their interests are not ignored--specifically by purging Shiite militias from the police--so Sunnis can trust the police--and by addressing the oil income problem, which I've noted before.

And the US military does target Sunnis--as you yourself have noted, al-Qaeda is basically Sunni--though mostly not Iraqi.

If you can't split normal Sunni Iraqis from al-Qaeda, you can't understand Iraq--and if Maliki and the US can't split them, the war will never end.

Subject: RE: BS: Sunni-Arab-U.S. coalition forming
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 01:35 PM

Ron - This is the only evidence I have, "the Israelis understand that it's in our interest and their interest" that the United States try to shore up military systems for Sunni Arab allies."

I may have made an assumption that 'Sunni Arab allies', included Iraqis but not necessarily Sunni Kurds. I have always wondered why the U.S. military seemed to target Shiites when the majority of the democratically elected government were Shiite. Why not target Sunnis?

Sure, it would be very nice if Iraqis included Sunnis, economically but after Saddam and the U.S., that isn't going to happen. Dream on. Why should it? At this point, their best chance is an Iranian, Kurd, Iraqi Shiite coalition.

Bush is doing everything he can to prevent that from happening.

Subject: RE: BS: Sunni-Arab-U.S. coalition forming
From: Peace
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 01:26 PM

I still think he will try a coup d'etat before his term is up.

Subject: RE: BS: Sunni-Arab-U.S. coalition forming
From: Stringsinger
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 01:20 PM

This is one of my theories. Bush is hiding bin Laden. bin Laden is probably in Saudi Arabia. That's where his family is. Bush's motivation is to keep an enemy alive. He got rid of Saddam which inflamed the Sunnis. Now bin Laden is an ace in the hole (so to speak). He can point to an enemy to scare people.

Another theory, Bush really doesn't know what's going on in Iraq at all. Remember that Reagan had problems separating reality from fiction in his "wartime exploits". Bush is doing the same.

Saddam and bin Laden didn't get along. Bush doesn't seem to know this or care.

Another theory, bin Laden may not really exist any more. Who knows who's really sending those tapes to Al Jazeera?

Bottom line: Bush is the guy who wants to be dictator. He'll use wars and enemies to get there. He wants to be perceived as a great leader and a pres with a legacy.
His legacy will be there all right. Murderer, gangster, insane power hungry incompetent.

Hail to the Thief.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: Sunni-Arab-U.S. coalition forming
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 12:15 PM

"turns against the democratically elected majority Shiite government by arming the Sunnis"--sorry, Dianavan--you know I'm not exactly Mr. Bush's biggest fan--but we'd need some evidence for this charge.

As I've said more than once, the key to peace in Iraq--- (at least the rump state--"Kurdistan" is gone)---is that the Sunnis don't feel excluded.

There's an awful lot of sloppy thinking going on--by lots of posters--when talking about Iraq. Admittedly it is a complex situation--with all sorts of variables. Among other things, the situation is different in various parts of the country. For instance, it's my understanding that in Anbar, many local Sunnis are tired of al-Qaeda attacks--and al-Qaeda-though ostensibly Sunni--are mostly not Iraqi. So some local Sunnis are teaming up with US forces against al-Qaeda--there--but not necessarily anywhere else.

In Baghdad, one of the main reasons the body count may be going down in some areas is that Sunni sections are being walled off from Shiite sections--not precisely reconciliation. And the official Iraqi police are not allowed in the Sunni sections without US accompaniment--since the Shiite militias in the police can't be trusted by the Sunnis. But the Sunni population can't trust the Sunni militias either--if those Sunnis have been working with the US.

And when projects funded by the US are going on (factories etc), the US sometimes has to stage a fake raid on the project--if it were known the project is supported by the US, those working on it would be in danger--that's how popular the US is.

And as you know, in the recent poll cited, over half the population felt it was fine to kill Americans--again that's how popular the US is.

Bush is drowning in the river of denial.

Subject: RE: BS: Sunni-Arab-U.S. coalition forming
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 03:20 AM

Lets see if we can figure this out...

If Bush arms Sunni Arabs and Iran arms Shiites, who do you think arms al Qaeda?   

Hmmm - Isn't bin Laden a Sunni Arab?

Subject: RE: BS: Sunni-Arab-U.S. coalition forming
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 10:16 PM

Tom Lehrer in Send the Marines

...till somebody we LIKE can be elected!

Subject: RE: BS: Sunni-Arab-U.S. coalition forming
From: Arkie
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 09:58 PM

Bush intends to keep us at war until he leaves office, then it will be someone else's mess to clean up.   Meanwhile a lot more Americans and allies as well as Iraqis die.   It is a shame that murder does not inflame people as much as sex. I was a bumper sticker last night that said "I Miss Bill". He wasn't one of my favorite presidents, but I am beginning to miss him too.

Subject: RE: BS: Sunni-Arab-U.S. coalition forming
From: Peace
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 09:52 PM

I'm hear you, Barry.

Question: Can the American Congress do nothing to stop this guy? He is leading your country to ruin.

Subject: RE: BS: Sunni-Arab-U.S. coalition forming
From: Peace
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 09:50 PM

Recall that the King of Saudi Arabia said he'd side with the Sunnis if the Yanks pulled out of Iraq. He said that because Iran has been getting armaments to the Shi'ites, and he was worried that Iran would begin to give SA a close look. So, along comes Bush who was taken by surprise by the SA King's statement, and all of a sudden, he's arming the opposition to the Shi'ites and Iran. The whole thing is a mess, but in this case, lotsa people helped create it. Bush is only one of the players.

Subject: RE: BS: Sunni-Arab-U.S. coalition forming
From: Barry Finn
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 09:50 PM

Great Peace, I'd get down on my knees but I'm not taking this one on for the troops, the nation nor the citizens of this nation, I feel like I've already taken it up the ass.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Sunni-Arab-U.S. coalition forming
From: Peace
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 09:43 PM

Will someone PLEASE give Bush a blowjob so he can be impeached?

Subject: BS: Sunni-Arab-U.S. coalition forming
From: dianavan
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 09:39 PM

Bush has absolutely no scruples. I don't even know where to start on this one. He invades Iraq to set up a democracy and then turns against the democratically elected, Shiite majority government by arming the Sunnis. Now, even Israel is shaking their heads in amazement and wonder.

Maybe its not all about oil, maybe its about arms sales as well. This is absolutely diabolical. How can he justify destroying the Middle East. He has obviously sold his soul to the devil. No wonder terrorism is growing! Why should the U.S. and Britain get off scott free?

"It's not like the Israelis are going to end up with nothing," said a senior administration official, adding "the Israelis understand that it's in our interest and their interest" that the United States try to shore up military systems for Sunni Arab allies. But Israel is also concerned that the Bush administration's ambitions for an American-Israeli-Sunni coalition allied against Iran may never materialize, or that there could be a revolution in Saudi Arabia that would leave the mostly American-made Saudi arsenal in the hands of militant Islamists, the paper said."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/845893.html