BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 22 Jan 16 - 04:55 AM

It,s HiLo Jiim . I believe I have always called by your chosen name. I would appreciate the same courtesy, it is what grown ups do.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jan 16 - 04:11 AM

"Like the "eye witnesses" at Jenin, and the nurse "eye witnesses" on the MV Marmara who saw bodies thrown over the side. All liars."

That is as squalid and as desperate as it gets Keith - all the witnesses were liars
Ellen Siegal is an American Jewish nurse who was present at the massacre - she is a "liar" because her story doesn't corroborate the account given by the regime that has led to the present state of affairs in Israel that has not long perpetrated the massacre of 1,462 civilians - 344 children And 110 women
"You Redmond Report would not say that Israel was "directly responsible."
In your own words:
"The Redmond Enquiry found Israel guilty either "directly or indirectly" of the Sabra/Shatila massacre - guilty as that"
You have opted for "indirectly responsible" on the basis that all the witnesses were "liars"
Hope you never get to serve on jury duty in a British court Keith
Sickening!
It is only the lying enemies of Israel who say it is guilty of any massacres.
And that ends the official announcement from the Israeli terrorist regime

"No, Jim, you do not know.... but I am not surprised that he is your hero."
Then perhaps you might enlighten me Lilo - or is this to be yet another of your hit-and-run visits?
Jim Carroll

"ELLEN SIEGEL: I think what should happen to him is what has happened in our history, in Jewish history. Ever since I was a child, I have learned that what happened during the Holocaust happened because people were silent, people did not speak up. People allowed bad things to happen to other people and did not do anything about it. We should be the last people on Earth that should allow that to happen. Simon Wiesenthal continues and the Jewish agencies continue to look for Nazi war criminals, and indeed they should, and bring them to justice. Ariel Sharon is a war criminal. And the legal aspects of this, I understand, as a non-legal person, put him in that category. He allowed innocent people to be murdered. He did nothing to protect it. He knew that they were the sworn enemy of the Palestinians. And so, he should be tried."

"AMY GOODMAN: That was Ellen Siegel, the nurse who worked in the Sabra camp at the time of the massacre in 1982. Professor Rashid Khalidi, also with us, your relative headed that hospital called Gaza Hospital?AMY GOODMAN: That was Ellen Siegel, the nurse who worked in the Sabra camp at the time of the massacre in 1982. Professor Rashid Khalidi, also with us, your relative headed that hospital called Gaza Hospital?"
Chomsky

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 02:34 PM

Eye witnesses swore that soldiers stood by while the killing was taking place and refused to help.

Like the "eye witnesses" at Jenin, and the nurse "eye witnesses" on the MV Marmara who saw bodies thrown over the side. All liars.

You Redmond Report would not say that Israel was "directly responsible."
Israel has always accepted indirect responsibility.

It is only the lying enemies of Israel who say it is guilty of any massacres.
No respectable democracy does.
Try not to be so gullible Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 02:19 PM

what are your answers to the questions

42

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 02:07 PM

So what,

So what? Fascinating, Beardie. You really are a some king of a jackass, aintcha?.

Now, that being said, what are your answers to the questions posed on 21 Jan 16 - 10:21 AM   & 21 Jan 16 - 01:14 PM ??

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 01:59 PM

Its in the multiple thousands, as can be documented with very little effort.

So what, I'm sure that multiple millions in the US oppose Obama's actions and policies. That just shows how fortunate we are to live in a democracy where leaders are put into office by the vote of a majority and we have the freedom to oppose them if we wish. Would that Israel's enemies had the same rights, the Middle East would be better for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 01:37 PM

"But still, you could find nothing written in twenty years that agrees with your old beliefs, but I posted many historians who called them myths."
The pills Keith - the pills!!
"Yes, and "eye witness" reports of bodies trucked away, but it was all lies."
Doesn't make any difference that, with its record of terrorism and rigging its enquiries Israel is not to be trusted - we saw Israel's terrorist activities and yet iy#t declared itself not guilty on the grunds of a rigged enquiry - never again
"The Redmond Enquiry found Israel guilty either "directly or indirectly" of the Sabra/Shatila massacre - guilty as that"
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but whatever way you read it - that's guilty one way or another.
Israel facilitated the massacre - it provided transport for the killers, opened the gates for them and left them at it for three days - it even provided illumination so they could continue their slaughter through the night.
When the slaughter was over they drove the killers away, provided bulldozers to conceal the dead and eventually built a stadium over the mass graves.
Eye witnesses swore that soldiers stood by while the killing was taking place and refused to help.
Every bit of this was covered by the Redmond enquiry and/or eye-witness statements (including from Israeli soldiers on the ground - the experiences of one of them was made into a film. It was established beyond doubt - the only bit Redmond didn't establish was Israel's possible hands-on involvement and that's far from unreasonable given their record of slaughter
To add icing to the cake, the man held as being overall responsible was made Prime Minister - talk about rubbing the world's nose in it - you'd think they believed they had God on their side - oh, some of them do, don't they?
Now, which part of that is "not guilty"?
We really are done here Keith - you are trying to appease too many atrocities at the one time.
Sit back and drink your cocoa and maybe I'll read you a story before you go to bed.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 01:14 PM

Are you sure it's not billions?

Yes, I am, Beardie. Its in the multiple thousands, as can be documented with very little effort.

By the way, I suppose those Jewish Israelis who oppose the actions of the Israeli government are also anti-Semites, right?.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 12:52 PM

Jim,
Yeah Keith - you've told us this a hundred times - nobody believes you.

But still, you could find nothing written in twenty years that agrees with your old beliefs, but I posted many historians who called them myths.

I know there were reports of Israelis bulldozing homes with families still in them.

Yes, and "eye witness" reports of bodies trucked away, but it was all lies.

contradicted by the Redmond Report, which found that Israel was guilty of war crimes.

Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 08:45 AM
"Not true."
The Redmond Enquiry found Israel guilty either "directly or indirectly" of the Sabra/Shatila massacre - guilty as that

Yes Jim, and Israel accepts indirect responsibility as the authority in Lebanon at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 12:50 PM

No, Jim, you do not know.... but I am not surprised that he is your hero.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 12:32 PM

"Vanunu was a PROTESTER ? you really are desperate Jim. I suggest you read a bit more about him."
I know exactly who Vanunu was - he is my hero - when Israel fell into the hands of the right wing he grew uneasy about them having nuclear weapons so he made us aware of the fact.
Israel attempted to encourage South Africa to become nuclear facilitated - such people need to be exposed so they can be constantly monitored.
Personally I will be eternally grateful that be blew the whistle on these bastards.
As far as protesters are concerned, the Palestinians are protesters objecting to their homes being stolen and their people being murdered in their thousands and we know what happens to them - they get murdered in their thousands
a href="http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.585842">Haaretz
AMNESTY
More
While I'm at it
MoreSuppression
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 12:12 PM

Something to ponder, written by a friend, who is an Arab BTW: Inside the minds of racists: the "war crimes" accusers of Israel

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 12:02 PM

not "some" but multiple thousands.

Are you sure it's not billions?

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 11:53 AM

There are presumably some Israelis who oppose some of the government's actions

No, Beardie, not "presumably" but actually.

And No, Beardy, not "some" but multiple thousands.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 11:34 AM

Vanunu was a PROTESTER ? you really are desperate Jim. I suggest you read a bit more about him.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 11:13 AM

"This is normal and healthy in democratic systems unlike, may I point out, in Israel's neighbours where opposing the government gets you killed quickly, if you're lucky."
It can get you locked up for life in Israeel - ask Mordechai Vanunu.
Israeli is noted for carrying out assassinations of those they don't like
You pair of David Irvings really aren't going to respond to Israel's being condemned for terrorism - are you?
Debating with you is like ten-pin-bowling - you put 'em up, we'll knock them down
NEXT
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Brian May
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 11:09 AM

Drop in time again. . .

See you guys are all getting on well still . . .

Hi Musket! Nice to put a face to a name (Strummers).

BFN

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 10:57 AM

the thousands upon thousands of Jewish Israelis who oppose the actions of the Government of Israel

There are presumably some Israelis who oppose some of the government's actions just as in all other democratic states. This is normal and healthy in democratic systems unlike, may I point out, in Israel's neighbours where opposing the government gets you killed quickly, if you're lucky.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 10:22 AM

"Nothing was put up to contradict my claims.
Plenty was put up supporting them and calling your old beliefs "myths."
Yeah Keith - you've told us this a hundred times - nobody believes you.
All "ignormous Muppet" eh - ah well.
I really don't know enough about the enquiry into Jenin to contradict anybody, - I know there were reports of Israelis bulldozing homes with families still in them.
My point was, and remains, that the recent fiasco of a report on Gaza has called into question how all of these reports are carried out.
The Arab claim is that Israel had the right to select who served and who didn't on the enquiry team.
That was certainly the case in Gaza, where only Israeli politicians and military men were interviewed.
It was also the case in Sabra/Shatila when the Israelis own Kahan report was totally contradicted by the Redmond Report, which found that Israel was guilty of war crimes.
Israel does not favour independent enquiries to the extent that it wants the International Criminal Court closed down, which would mean, of course, there would be no way of bringing Isis to justice - it is putting its own self-interest before that of the rest of the world.
Whenever the Arab report was written, Israel's behavior has borne out the accusations made.
Israel is a terrorist state with U.S. backing that is beginning to crumble.
You have never once responded to any Human Rights accusation,(not your thing- human rights)
All of them without exception condemn Israel - you prefer to believe the politicians - there's a word for that you know
"Everything in the state". The Government is supreme and the country is all-encompassing, and all within it must conform to the ruling body, often a dictator."
Benito Mussolini's definition of fascism
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 10:21 AM

how haters like Carroll are so easily duped by the amateurish propaganda

Presumably the thousands upon thousands of Jewish Israelis who oppose the actions of the Government of Israel are also so duped, Beardie?

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 09:57 AM

This 60 Minutes segment exposes how haters like Carroll are so easily duped by the amateurish propaganda churned out by Pallywood. It includes a clip of a "corpse" being carried away on a bier from the Jenin "massacre". The "corpse" falls off the bier twice and immediately jumps back on. It doesn't take much to stir hatred in haters.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 09:45 AM

Jim
are you waiting for your "real historian" to get back to you or just leaving a big enough gap to claim that nothing ha been put up that contradicts your claims?

Nothing was put up to contradict my claims.
Plenty was put up supporting them and calling your old beliefs "myths."




Now how about you reading and responding to the the load of links outlining Isreael's behaviour .

Your Arab News link was to something written in April 2002 before the UN and other agencies had proved that it was all lies.
You are so gullible Jim.
The enemies of Israel lie and lie, and you suck it all up without question.

Human Rights Watch completed its report on Jenin in early May, stating "there was no massacre," and Amnesty International's report concluded "No matter whose figures one accepts, "there was no massacre."
Within five weeks all but one of the residents was accounted for."[81] A BBC report later noted, "Palestinian authorities made unsubstantiated claims of a wide-scale massacre"

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 09:24 AM

Anything that putz and gonif Sheldon Adelson has to say is not worth listening to - piece of dreck that he is.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 09:17 AM

"Terrorism, Again (Israel)......indeed!!"
As you say "indeed"
Your quote comes from pro-Israeli newspaper, Israel Hayom (history below
Israel Hayom was launched on 30 July 2007 by American casino magnate Sheldon Adelson. At that time, the newspaper competed directly with Israeli, another free daily previously co-run by Adelson. The same year, Maariv editor Dan Margalit left the newspaper to write for Israel Hayom. A weekend edition was launched in October 2009. In 2014, it was believed that Adelson invested in total at least $50 million in Israel Hayom."
The speaker quoted is Ismail Haniyeh, a politician who is not, as described in the article "a political leader", but has been dismissed from his post and has been denied re-entry into Gaza - his views are nobody's but his own
Don't suppose you are going to respond to any of the facts either.
You must have a terrible headache trawling the net for insignificant opinions.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 08:49 AM

The current wave of terrorism is not about a lack of jobs, a poor economy, or any of the other excuses we've heard. Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh declared just Tuesday that the motive behind the current wave of violence is "jihad."

"This intifada is not the result of despair. This intifada is a jihad, a holy war fought by the Palestinian people against the Zionist occupation. Only a holy war will drive the occupier out of Palestine," Haniyeh said.

Terrorism, Again (Israel)......indeed!

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 08:27 AM

"Read Teribus' post 20 Jan 16 - 06:32 guest."
Read it - answered it - it's a load of crap.
Now how about you reading and responding to the the load of links outlining Isreael's behaviour - are you waiting for your "real historian" to get back to you or just leaving a big enough gap to claim that nothing ha been put up that contradicts your claims?
Aswer the points - they are there for the knocking down by your claimed superior intellect.
Yours
Muppet Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 07:57 AM

Read Teribus' post 20 Jan 16 - 06:32 guest.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 06:52 AM

I really don't care about the reason. You accused Jim of mentioning WW1, he did not, you did. I seem to recall reading a post of the YAY thread when again you brought up WW1. Take responsibility for your own actions.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 06:36 AM

For crying out loud Keith, give it a rest - you've "lost" (to borrow your own phrase
Jim Carrroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 06:34 AM

""Two State" solution"
The Arabs have proposed a solution based on returning to the 1967 borders - that is not acceptable to Israel - simple as that.
The constant factor in this conflict has been the ongoing seizure of Palestinian land backed by military force.
U.N. report
Until the disputed territories become undisputed, there can be no solution.
The Palestinians would have to be out of their minds to accept anything less, there are already 6.5 million Palestinian refugees in the world today without adding to them.
I "witter on" about land theft because the stealing of Palestinian land is now an increasing act by expansionist Israel.
The reality of expansionism
The reality again
Israel has refused to set borders because, it claims, the Palestinians would not accept any borders - the truth is, that they will not accept borders the Israelis insist on.
Israel's demands
Sort of like a burglar saying "we won't give you back what we've nicked, but if you agree not to make trouble we won't come back".
What the Palestinians want can be found here
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 06:27 AM

Guest,
Keith, He could of accused you of being a bed wetter

He accused me of resorting to his style of personal attack when I referred to people who knew nothing of recent WW1 history as "know nothings."

I just refuted it, making no other comment on the war.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 05:47 AM

Having read through the contributions to this thread looking at references both veiled, oblique and direct to WW1 there appeared to be a great deal of wittering on about "land theft" by Jom the infallible and in support of this Jom was awfully keen on people looking at maps. Now Jom wasn't all that keen on maps in the past especially when asked to produce maps from either the Palestine Authority/Hamas/Fatah/Islamic Jihad/The Muslim Brotherhood/Hezbollah showing the boundaries and borders of this "Two State" solution they say that they are fighting for. Jom has a bit of trouble producing such a map you see as no such map exists, as NONE of those "organisations" have any desire at all to embrace even the remotest possibility of a "Two State" solution, they didn't in 1937, they didn't in 1947 - no doubt Jom can come out with some highly implausible reason for that that has nothing to do with statements about "driving the Jews into the sea" and "wiping Israel off the map".

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 05:43 AM

Keith, He could of accused you of being a bed wetter but he did not mention WW1, you did that. Take responsibility for your own actions.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 05:18 AM

I've usually avoided putting up what the Arab Press has to say on these matters, but maybe it's time they were given a voice in these arguments.
This from The Arab News that I came across the day before yesterday.
Arab News
It was be good to hear a response to what is being said rather than the old usual of who is saying it.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 05:12 AM

Doesn't make any difference Keith - all combatants exaggerate their figures.
An Israeli spokesman during the Gaza massacres claimed to have killed 1000 "terrorist" - work it out for yourself.
What the Observer "opined" is immaterial - the number of people slaughtered by 1000 heavily armed Israeli teoop at Jenin constituted a massacre to ordinary human beings.
It has become fashionable to refer to all opposition to Israeli terrorism as "terrorism".
Whatever we may personally think of Hamas, they are the only ones standing between the Palestinian people being ethnically cleansedd and slaughters and their persecutors.   
Counties with a record of war criminality themselves, like the U.S. have made sure that the Palestinians have no outside support from politicians in 'The Free West'.
When push comes to shove, there is little difference between Hamas and the Israeli Freedom Fighters of the 1940s
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 04:54 AM

Jim,
Similarly, the Jenin massacre that wasn't- based mainly on the statement of an American military man who declared it wasn't a massacre.

That dishonesty merits a dedicated post Jim.

The UN report to the Secretary General noted "Palestinians had claimed that between 400 and 500 people had been killed, fighters and civilians together. They had also claimed a number of summary executions and the transfer of corpses to an unknown place outside the city of Jenin. The number of Palestinian fatalities, on the basis of bodies recovered to date, in Jenin and the refugee camp in this military operation can be estimated at around 55."[79] While noting the number of civilian deaths might rise as rubble was cleared, the report continued, "nevertheless, the most recent estimates by UNRWA and ICRC show that the number of missing people is constantly declining as the IDF releases Palestinians from detention."[4] Human Rights Watch completed its report on Jenin in early May, stating "there was no massacre," but accusing the IDF of war crimes,[80] and Amnesty International's report concluded "No matter whose figures one accepts, "there was no massacre."[1] Amnesty's report specifically observed that "after the IDF temporarily withdrew from Jenin refugee camp on April 17, UNRWA set up teams to use the census lists to account for all the Palestinians (some 14,000) believed to be resident of the camp on April 3, 2002. Within five weeks all but one of the residents was accounted for."[81] A BBC report later noted, "Palestinian authorities made unsubstantiated claims of a wide-scale massacre,"[15] and a reporter for The Observer opined that what happened in Jenin was not a massacre

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 04:42 AM

'The Friends of Israel' relised it needed investigation; that's why they commissioned an enquiry and mocked-up a report absolving Israel.

Yes, but there was nothing mocked up about the report.
Top military leaders, all from democratic countries, and not a Zionist or even a Jew amongst them.

It was Hamas who flouted International Law, which put their own civilians in harms way and whose consequent suffering they cynically exploited for propaganda.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 04:15 AM

"Everyone knows what IDF strategy was, so what is there to investigate?"
Then why not drop them a line explaining the situation and tell them too ask you if they need clarification on anything and save themselves all that time and money?
Don't be stupis Keith, if you think the death of 1,462 civilians - 344 children And 110 women doesn't need investigation and can be settled by asking the IDF why they did it, you are beyond help.
'The Friends of Israel' relised it needed investigation; that's why they commissioned an enquiry and mocked-up a report absolving Israel.
The U.S. have always realised that Israel has been breaking International Laws in their treatment of Arabs - that's why they have been forced to use their veto so many times to protect them from prosecution
Obama was so appalled at what happened in Gaza that he threatened to withdraw the protection of the American veto.
Israel realises that their actions breached international laws - that's why they have attempted to get the International Criminal Court closed.
We all know that an enquiry is necessary - we saw it on our televisions and read it in our newspaper daily throughout the period that the slaughter and destruction was taking place.
Since the Friends of Israel whitewash came up I've been poking around some past evens.
Th Kahan investigation held by Israel to absolve itself in a similar fashion - no evidence of proper research - just politicians and soldiers explaining why they allowed the massacre to happen.
Similarly, the Jenin massacre that wasn't- based mainly on the statement of an American military man who declared it wasn't a massacre.
Israel has powerful political allies who have spent much time and effort keeping them from being prosecuted for war crimes and atrocities.
Hopefully, this was a far too public display of international criminality to get them off the hook on this occasion.
"You can fool some of the people some of the time"
I see Terrytoon hasn't been taking his pills again!
Jim Carroll

Rafah

U.N. report

Jerusalem Post (can't Clickie it)

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/ICC-opens-inquiry-into-possible-war-crimes-committed-by-Israel-in-Palestinian-territories-387988

Human Rights Watch

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 02:32 AM

Guest,
Jim may have copied from another thread but he made no mention of WW1

He quoted from the just closed WW1 thread, accusing me of indulging in the kind of personal abuse he routinely employs.
I just explained why it was not. It was a factual description of their absence of any knowledge of recent (twenty years!) work on WW1 history.

Jim,
The International Criminal Court is in the process of investigating whether Israel should stand trial for War Crimes

Is it?
Everyone knows what IDF strategy was, so what is there to investigate?
In war there are always war crimes committed at unit and sub unit level, and that may be the investigation, and I hope any culprits are punished.

International law is there to minimise civilian suffering.
There is no question that Hamas flouted that law. You can see missiles and mortars being fired indiscriminately at civilians, from civilian occupied areas.

But for those war crimes there would be no civilian deaths in Gaza.
Why do they have to attack Israeli civilians at all? That is the cause of all this suffering.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 08:30 PM

Jom I have very little interest in anything you say on any subject as experience has shown me that it is basically all falls into one or more of the following categories:

1: Made up shit

2: Baseless biased bigotry fueled from a well of anglophobia that defies description

3: Unsubstantiated newspaper reports

4: Unverifiable "quotes" that no-one else has ever heard.

When all these have had holes shot in them and your arguments had been destroyed you resort to throwing out baseless allegations.

Carry on whinging Jom, but in 1948 it was Egypt and Jordan who invaded and stole "Palestinian land" (Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem). Now did either the Egyptians and the Jordanians "give that land to the Arabs of Palestine in 1948? Did they heck as like - what they did do was imprison self same Palestinian Arabs in refugee camps, ensure that they lived their lives in poverty because that is what suited the pan-Arabic cause.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 08:07 PM

"A senior official from the Palestinian political party of Mahmoud Abbas (Fatah) recently stated that Adolf "Hitler was not morally corrupt"
Bruce - you and Israel have constantly hidden behind accusations of Antisemitsm to defend Israeli atrocities - it is little wonder that soem of the more impressionable Palestinians have taken yours and Isreal's cue that those atrocities are not Israeli but Jewish - your antismitism is bound to instill antisemitism in others.
Following the invasion into Gaza before last, prominent figures in Israel were demanding that all Palestinians should have the electricity and water cut off and they should be driven into the desert to let their Muslim neighbours take care of them.
You have constantly told us that the Arabs have no right to their territory and have said they should be driven out.
Wiggle away, but you have not responded to one single example of Israelis murdering Palestinians
Wonder whether you are going to argue that the baby who was burned to death in the Israeli arson attack was a member of the Hitlet Youth.
What kind of people are you!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 07:49 PM

"You and your pals have been baiting at least two threads to try and get it back onto WWI "
You and Keith - totally on your own, dragged your antiquarian jingoism over at least four threads - you got no support for your arguments - all your own work.
Even after you had been pasted to the wall, Keith was safely entrencehed in his 'real histoian' dugout and you had both resorted to making up ridiculous (even for you) statements (prosperous Liverpool, democratic early 19th century Britain and a historical method whereby as a young historian appears the older ones commit HaraKiri and fall on their swords (still get a chuckle from that one) - you continued - Keith even reopened a thread after the other had been closed.
Failed - you're 'avin a larf - who did you convince?
""Go off and find one of your "real historians" who sell their books in "real bookshops""
Sod all to do with World War One Terrytoon - Keith started this back in The Irish Famine debates.
The guest posting refered to the subject of this thread - Palestine - sod all to do with WW1 arguments
All of these quotes you give refer to Keith's dishonest argiong technique - every single one.
Keith on the other hand attempted to reopen the WW1 thread and painted himself into a corner.
The fit posting attempting to reopen the lost cause of WW1 was Keith's the subject of World War - "Know nothing" referred to the fact that some people attacked my knowledge of WW1 history" - every other was aimed at his disgracefully dishonest behaviour - nice try - no cigar.
I'm sure that, now this pair of terrorism deniers have had their combined arses kicked good and proper over Israeli massacres you will now make an effort to divert the discussion to who said what first - nice try - another no cigar.   
"From the beginning of World War I, however, part of Palestine's land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80 percent of the Palestinian Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins.""
Are you seriously suggesting that this was about WW1 and not Israel? ---- Jay-sus!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 06:32 PM

GUEST - 20 Jan 16 - 07:31 AM
"The first mention of WW1 unsurprisingly came from Keith at 9.12am on the 19th."

Ehmmm NO GUEST - First hint and veiled reference to the recently closed WWI thread:

Jim Carroll - 12 Jan 16 - 02:29 PM
"Go off and find one of your "real historians" who sell their books in "real bookshops"

Second

Jim Carroll - 13 Jan 16 - 08:36 AM
"Wot - no historians!!!!! I have no doubt they're waiting in the wings to be called."

Third

GUEST - 14 Jan 16 - 08:13 AM
"From the beginning of World War I, however, part of Palestine's land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80 percent of the Palestinian Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins."

Fourth

Jim Carroll - 17 Jan 16 - 02:48 PM
" - bit like asking General Haig's opinion on the rights and wrongs of WW1, doncha think Keith."

Fifth

GUEST,Musket - 18 Jan 16 - 02:28 AM
"There again, neither do any of the tactics employed in an adjecant thread discussing 100 years ago."

SIXTH

Keith A of Hertford - 19 Jan 16 - 09:12 AM
"Know nothing" referred to the fact that some people attacked my knowledge of WW1 history without having read any history about it themselves. That is as personal as I get."

Seventh

Jim Carroll - 19 Jan 16 - 01:45 PM
"Nothing written for twenty years disagreed any of my points."
Really not going here again Keith"

YOU'VE GOT TO BE JOKING JOM – You and your pals have been baiting at least two threads to try and get it back onto WWI – and as in most things you lot attempt you have failed. Best try something else to get this thread closed as you are being routed by fact, reasoning and logic as usual.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 04:28 PM

No Keith. You were the first to mention WW1. Jim may have copied from another thread but he made no mention of WW1 that is purely down to YOU.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 03:13 PM

guest,

The first mention of WW1 unsurprisingly came from Keith at 9.12am on the 19th.

Wrong. That was me responding to Jim's quote of 19 Jan 16 - 07:58 AM .

He made up the "moron" but "know nothings" was a quote from the just closed WW1 thread and no other.

I responded and Jim kept it going.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 12:04 PM

Just in case you still think it's one sided
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 11:49 AM

"Terrorism, Again (Israel)......indeed!"
Two wrongs don't make a right, but neither does pretending it only happens on one side.
Jim, Carroll
Abu Khdeir
Arson kills child

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 11:27 AM

It is sometimes the weakest members of the Palestinian society who are incited to kill, and then be wounded or killed themselves. It's a tragedy on their side as well that young Palestinians—youth– are brainwashed to give their lives to murder Jews when their violence only ensures that peace will not be found. Where are the voices crying out against this society's abuse of children? Against a society that glamorizes its killers, naming streets after them, celebrating their deaths?

Child Abuse: The World Must Stand Up Against the Incitement of Palestinian Youth

Terrorism, Again (Israel)......indeed!

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 07:58 AM

"unsurprisingly"
Now there's a surprise!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 07:31 AM

The first mention of WW1 unsurprisingly came from Keith at 9.12am on the 19th.