You guys've stood in my way long enough

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Marion
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 02:40 PM

Dude, I know what the Fourth of July is! (The day you celebrate the independence of your country by blowing up a small part of it.) I'm just teasing you for forgetting that I'm Canadian. And you're my mentor; Fielding's my cautionary example.

June 24 is St. Jean Baptiste, Quebec's national holiday, and is a much bigger deal to them than Canada Day is to the Rest of Canada. I lived five years in Montreal and remember the parades fondly.

Marion

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Genie
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 01:19 PM

Hi, Marion,
One hazard of picking up a thread where you left off is forgetting how it started. You did, of course, say at the outset that you were going to try to do the professional musician thing in Toronto!

(From the "Nursing Home", etc., threads where I was 'talking' to both you and Ferrara a lot, I just sort of got the connection of you to Washington DC stuck in my head, by association with Rita. (Yes, I DO know which one is which, and I know you have Rick F. as a sort of mentor, so I should remember where you live. I probably will now, after suggesting that you work up a July 4 program! *G*)

Anyway, I seem to recall being asked to do some spontaneous busking at a cafe in Montreal in the summer of 1973 for La Fête de St. Jean Baptiste (Batiste?).
There was a helluva party going on in the streets for the holiday. How about that for a special program? It's only about 3 hours to Montréal from Toronto, IIRC.

Genie

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Genie
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 04:32 PM

Glad your Irish gigs are a bit spread out, Marian.

BTW, I found that the retirement and nursing home folks love "Mary Mack," "The Sick Note," "Gilgarra Mountain," "Star Of The County Down" and some other non-Tin-Pan-Alley songs, even though they may not have heard them before.

What's July 4?
Surely you jest? I forgot where you live (are you in Canada?), but even if you're not in the US... (I mean. I know the significance of July 1 and July 14, even though I live in the US.) If you are in Canada, of course, you wouldn't be getting a lot of requests for July 4th programs, but how about a Canada Day program?

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Mark Clark
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 03:48 PM

Marion, I'm glad to hear of the St. Pat's gigs and delighted you're having a great time with them. Keep this up and we'll all be buying your CDs.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Marion
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 03:19 PM

Hi Genie. No, not all nine gigs were yesterday, and some are still in the future. On the 17th I had three hours of gigs, and busked for another three hours. Very tiring, but I feel rich.

What's July 4?

Marion

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 09:13 AM

Well since you're Canadian (but really an international citizen) perhaps you should learn songs for:

May day

Gay pride day

Burns day!!

Re: Bar(re) Mitzvahs.....that was something I never played as a front guy, but did quite a few as a band player. You got the same seven or eight requests over and overr!

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 08:16 AM

Rick, how do you play a Barre Mitsvah?

GO MARION! I wonder if there exists a list of places where busking is legal and no formal approval or license is required. I know in the US, it's up to local law, and those laws vary widely.

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: M.Ted
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 02:52 AM

Tourist season, with many many, many places to play--Bruce's beloved Asbury Park is not really very well attended, but every other shore town has bars, bandshells, restaurants, and clubs of every sort that are jammed with people waiting to be entertained--a lot of opportunities for dance bands, of course, but there are a lot of gigs for singer guitarists, providing they've got a powerful enough amp to cut through the crowd noise--you'd need a car though--

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Genie
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 08:57 PM

Good on ya, Marion -- nine St. Pat's gigs!

I do hope they aren't ALL ON the 17th, though--at least not if they're each an hour or more! (I have 5 on St. Patrick's itself, and even that will leave my fingers as bloody stumps by the end of the evening, a few a capella songs notwithstanding.)

Now, how's your repertoire for:
Mother's Day
Cinco De Mayo
July 4
Oktoberfest
Christmas Eve
Veteran's Day
New Year's Eve
Valentine's Day?

(These are pretty big days at retirement homes.)

Genie

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Willie-O
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 04:43 PM

Re: Jersey Shore

Umm,Marion, you need to listen to more old Springsteen.

The Boardwalk.

But I realize yer too busy out playing right now.

W-O
I have one St Pat's gig, anyway...

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: GUEST,Marion
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 04:07 PM

Are you converting, Rick?

Marion

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 03:55 PM

Ooga booga! I'm soooo proud!

So.....Can you play a Bar Mitzvah?

Rick

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Marion
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 03:43 PM

M.Ted, what happens on the Jersey shore from May to September?

Marion

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: M.Ted
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 06:06 PM

Congratulations! you're on your way! Used to know a piper who could play everything he knew in 30 minutes--he made a bundle every St Patrick's Day by playing for 30 minutes in many different pubs in his corner of Brooklyn(and, if I recall correctly, most weren't even Irish)--

Now get ready for the other annual events--start lining up the June weddings, New Year's Eve, and brush up on your favorite Serbian tunes for St. Sava's Memorial(Jan 14 on the Old Calender, 27 on the new one)--if you were here in the States, you could head for the Jersey Shore and gig from May to September, as well--

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: alanabit
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 04:28 AM

Mooman lives about a two hour train ride from me Marion. It's west rather than north, but it's not a huge detour.
Hi Richard. It's time I came out to see you too, isn't it?

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: mooman
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 03:26 AM

Power to your elbow Marion and good luck!

When you plan to tour mainland Europe, give me a PM and I'll try to suggest or help with some venues!

moo

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Marion
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 03:14 AM

I come for the service, but I stay for the leg room.

Last year I didn't have any paying gigs for St. Patrick's, and this year I have nine - what a difference a year can make. And it was all just a matter of calling people up and asking for the gigs; I didn't even send any demo tapes or references for these bookings.

I can still hardly believe that people are paying me to do this (this month, for the first time, I'm earning enough from music to pay my living expenses), or how much people seem to appreciate it. Jeez, all I'm doing is singing and strumming my guitar.

Marion

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Fortunato
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 12:50 PM

Marion, sorry to arrive so late, the title of the thread didn't hook me at first. I want to wish you the best of luck. It'll be a grand experience I'm sure. Keep us posted. Chance

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 12:37 AM

I come here for the Eccles cakes.

Merry Christmas (and jeri, who just got here, says hello)

Rickie Lake

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Marion
Date: 22 Dec 02 - 08:47 PM

Willie-O:

Have you come here for humiliation?

















I bet you're wondering what that was all about, eh? I don't know either. But Rick thinks it's a perfectly normal way to start a conversation.

Anyway, "a folk music nerd" I'll give you (and consider it a compliment as well), but "the ultimate folk nerd" - that's going a bit far, don't you think. I mean, I liked Riverdance, and Oh Brother Where Art Thou...

God rest ye merry,

Marion

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Willie-O
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 04:07 PM

Mariodonna:

Cool. Thank my old friend Roland Kushner for that B part. (The one that starts with open d-G-B on guitar?) He disowned it and said it was all wrong shortly after showing it to me, but it was much too late.

However, regarding your comments on Mr R Fielding. I kind of think of you as the ultimate folk music nerd, (yes I mean that in a good way!) with much more passion for it all than I can exert these days. But I generally think I DO understand what the hell he's talking about. Now you've got me worried about myself.   

W-O

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Marion
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 12:47 PM

PS to Willie-O: I used your arrangement of Ste. Anne's Reel for a demo recently; the weird B part continues to perpetuate itself.

Cheers, Marion

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Marion
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 08:22 PM

Well Mick, if I'm going to pick on either you or Rick, obviously it's going to be you. First, I've gotten used to never knowing what the hell Rick's talking about anyway; and second, I'm sucking up to him at the moment so I can keep borrowing all his stuff.

I've been thinking more about what Mark Clark said about his friend who quit the day job to study his instrument. In a sense, that's what I'm doing too. In my mind there's a clear distinction between a musician-as-entertainer and musician-as-artist. An entertainer's main "selling point" is the repertoire itself (as opposed to how the repertoire is performed), as well as being dependable and on time etc., whereas the artist is in demand for his or her unique ability to write songs and/or perform them at a certain level of skill.

What I want, long-term, is to be an artist, but I'm not ready to do so yet. So I've made being an entertainer my day job while I study to be an artist. I figure this will be more fun than other day jobs and will teach me some transferrable skills (business skills, PA use etc.), and I prefer the seniors' market route to the more common bar route since I hate smoke and I know more older pop music than current pop music anyway. But there are certainly some songs that I'm doing now that I could happily do without.

Marion

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Benjamin
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 02:06 AM

Ah yes! There are so many lines that can be taken from the Simpsons! Opportunities to quote one never seem scarce. I wish I would of caught on sooner! That actually is really funny (remembering that priceless moment and all that lead up to it)!
How have you done so far? Just curious!
Benjamin™

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Genie
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 09:24 PM

M. Ted, thanks for sharing your "MADONNA LESSON" , i.e., that "ambition makes more difference than talent," when it comes to getting bookings.

That's been my credo for the last 10 years, and I can vouch for it.

Although I've never heard you, Mariodonna, it sure sounds like you have a lot of BOTH!

¤;-D

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 10:28 PM

You made me laugh out loud with that "Mariodonna" signature. And give my memory a little break here. I am old and the memory doesn't work well sometimes. But I could swear you came down to the table in Rick's and sang shortly after his surgery.


Beside the point, eh? To quote Rick Fielding "........when I see something intangible in another person.

For what it's worth, of the thirty four folks I've taught and worked with this year, I've told two of them (naturally you were one) that if they wanted to earn their living with music exclusively they could. Of the remaining thirty two, there are some pretty fine musicians, and a few folks with great potential. But still.....there've been only two who I think don't NEED a day job.....yup, it's the intangibles.

If I have to be wrong, that is great company to be wrong in..........hahahahaha.

I don't think we really are disagreeing. You are speaking of the business end, and I am speaking of the performing end. I am not speaking of practice, but your way of interpretation.

Anyway, I can't wait to see you again, and hear you perform. Or maybe we should just go to the corner and do some illegal busking together.

XOXOXOXOXOXO right back atcha,

Mick

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Marion
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 03:31 PM

Thanks M.Ted.

Mick, you certainly haven't offended me, nor has it been my intention to offend you (I hope you realize I'm teasing you about the once vs. several thing, though I am right). I like what you said about my playing and I genuinely hope that the quality of my music is always what it's finally about for me.

The thing is, what Ted calls the Madonna lesson - and what Willie-O expanded on - is a point that circumstances have really been driving home to me lately. So what you said struck me as nice but beside the point. The other thing is, since I've realized that an hour on the phone will go a lot further in getting me gigs than an hour practicing, I've been spending a lot more time on the phone and a lot less time practicing, which is bound to make anyone cranky, right?

XOXOX,

Mariodonna

PS We did meet each other twice; besides at the Mills', we saw each other at Rick and Jed's radio show. But that time I wasn't able to stay very long, and didn't sing anything. That's probably what's confused you.

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: M.Ted
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 10:03 AM

Congratulations Marion, and, at least for my part, I was only standing in your way to strengthen your determination to get past me!;-)

I have always admired your courage and persistance--which presented itself in Mudcat as the courage to ask "dumb" questions, and the persistance to get the answers you wanted, in spite of the flak--

Sadly enough, I haven't had a chance to hear you play, and can't give you any feedback on your performance, but in the many years I have spent on the fringes of the music world, I have learned the MADONNA LESSON, which is that ambition makes more difference than talent--Now go for the windmills!

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Willie-O
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 09:10 AM

Settle down kids! You're both right!

There is nothing intangible about taking care of business.

Mick's talking strictly about a performance value; you can call it intangible, or a connection to the music. It's something that'll definitely help you succeed in your calling (along with the aforementioned dedication to the craft), and it's the reason that people like Rick and me and your old fiddle teacher in CB, who have had the pleasure of helping you develop your talent, enjoyed it so much. Some of your audience will realize this, some will INTERNALLY realize it without quite knowing, and a bunch of them won't get it at all.

But it won't get you gigs, as such. As you know, that's about making phone calls, putting promo together, and making more phone calls. Then making follow-up calls. (A process I've never had any patience for, that's why I generally make my living another way.) Once in a while you get lucky and find a booker who actually recognizes the intangibles that make your performance something special, but those people are few and far between. Most of them just want what they think of the correct "type of music" for their venue, presented by a reliable person who will not cause them a lot of extra work.

So Mick and Marion, would you PLEASE kiss and make up and quit sniping at each other while trying to apologize, or I'll ask Joe to put you in separate threads!

Bill

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 08:38 AM

OK.........apparently my trying to convey a compliment about something I like about your performance style has offended you. I apologize.

Mick

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Marion
Date: 08 Dec 02 - 04:56 PM

OK Mick, I see what you're doing there. Sure, if you count the one time we jammed in reality (at the Mills') AND the times we jammed just in your mind, then you can call it several times.

Further on the subject of tangibility: there's someone I know here in Toronto who's five times the fiddler I am. On the way to one of my gigs last week I came across him busking on the subway, which I found a little depressing (note: while I think that busking on the street is a proud activity, I consider it a little degrading for a fine musician to go through the TTC process and pay for the privilege of a licence). Also, I recently asked him to fill in for me on a relatively low-paying gig that I couldn't do because I was already booked; he accepted the gig and thanked me for it, saying that his bookings had dried up lately.

So why am I tossing this guy a loonie - or a referral - while I'm on my way to a gig? It's nothing to do with technical ability or mysterious performance qualities. It's because in recent months I've spent a lot more time than he has in the library researching prospects, and on the phone introducing myself to strangers. Intangible my ass.

Cheers, Marion

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 08:26 AM

Oh - would that my ass were that intangible   :@)

That sounds like fantastic praise Marion - if you've got that intangible thing then you are a true magician. And if you've got the tangibles too then you are doubly blessed. I hope its going well.

Kris

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 08:14 AM

Ease up there, woman. I have heard you sing in Rick's backyard, as well as Paul's backyard. I think that qualifies as several.

And bless your heart, but you need to understand that you do have that intangible that comes from ones life experience. The things you describe fall into the "commitment" category. The way you turn a phrase in your songs, interpret the lyrics, conveying sincerity and understanding the lyrics, losing yourself in the yarn you are spinning.......those are the intangibles. Ever seen a performer who was technically great on the instruments, memorized all the lyrics, and came off very sterile, or worse as a cookie cutter version of the original lyric? Those don't have the intangible.

And I still love you too...........even though you were very curt. I guess I have done that a few times, eh?

Mick

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Marion
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 02:21 AM

PS to Mick: Upon rereading I find that my last post may have been a little more curt than was strictly necessary. I still love you (even if you don't know the difference between "once" and "several times" ;)). Marion

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Marion
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 02:17 AM

THANK YOU, Benjamin, I was waiting for someone to ask about the thread title. It's from a classic episode of the Simpsons, where Homer suddenly stands up at the dinner table and announces to his family, "You people have stood in my way long enough! I'm going to clown college!"

There's that word "intangible" again. No, what being able to go pro came down to was totally tangible; a little planning, a little practicing, a lot of promotion, and a little selling out. Intangible my ass.

Cheers, Marion

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Benjamin
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 12:28 AM

Hey, I've never stood in your way! Nor do I plan on standing in your way! I'm also content to move if asked! Good job!

Benjamin

All your dreams are on their way, see how they shine!!!

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 12:15 AM

This one doesn't surprise me. I have had the good fortune several times to hear Marion play and sing. She has that intangible that good performers have. For me, it is the way she works a lyric.

I envy you, my dear. And I am anxious to hear you again. You are going to be fine. I hope we sing together again, soon.

All the very best,

Mick

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Mark Clark
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 05:21 PM

Congratulations, Marion. I know you're going to be a big success. Your enthusiasm and dedication reminds me of an old friend who quit his job about twenty-eight years ago now and has made a successful living at music ever since. The difference between you and my friend is that he quit his job to learn to play his instrument. He figured it would take complete focus and dedication to learn to play at the level he wanted and he never looked back. He's taken his band all over the world and recorded many successful albums so I guess he did the right thing.

I guess you did too. Best of luck,

      - Mark

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: meatrail
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 04:45 PM

Congratulations on your decision. Best of luck an all. I've busked on ann off for moor years than I can reemmber. And I've quit some jobs when they got in the way of my life. I've been accused of never haven had a impulse I didnn't act on, but you sound like you've thought this through an done what is good for yourself. there'd be more happy people in this ould world if more people "followed their bliss." Hell,ain't hardly nobody goen to get out of this life without working so you might as well work at what' enjoyable.

Good on yer, Marion! and go build some great memories.

Tunney

P.S. I liked the Tom Robbins story real well.

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 03:39 PM

Marion, I've been doing it for over 30 years now, and I've loved every minute of it. Of course there were some hard times, but the good - no make that GREAT - times, far outweighed the hard ones.
Stick with it, enjoy every day, let the naysayers and begrudgers wash off you like water off a duck's back, and welcome to the club.
Incidentally, to correct Sorcha; one must never say "Break a leg" to a musician. That's for actors. To a musician one must say, "Break a finger!" *G*


Seamus KennedynottheSeamusupabovethere.

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Genie
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 03:14 PM

Marion, I actually did live in Toronto (Downsview) for 3 years, but I seldom used mass transit because I lived and worked in the suburbs.  Sounds like TTC's attitude is similar to Portland's Gestapo re buskers!

And, when you said your birthday was "coming up soon," you didn't say HOW soon!

So here's a belated

Happy Birthday, Marion!

Knock 'em dead, girl!

Genie

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Marion
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 02:04 PM

Thanks, Willie-O, I like your post a lot.

Jed, don't worry, this was a well-planned decision. For the past few months I've been working every minute I could; there far too many days when I worked a day shift at one job, then a night shift at another, then went out to a gig the next morning... but it means that I've saved a lot. In the unlikely event that all the bookings I have now are cancelled, and both my students quit, and I don't get another gig for the next five months... I can still pay rent and buy groceries till next busking season.

Cheers, Marion

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 30 Nov 02 - 05:19 PM

Wonderful Seamus!

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Seamus
Date: 30 Nov 02 - 05:13 PM

The last time I held a "real" job was for a Construction Company. The man called me in and told me it wasn't working out. I said thanks, that we're still mates, and that I'd clean out my desk. He came out to me about a minute later. "Here" he said holding out a piece of paper. "if any one asks why you were let go..." It was a piece of scrap paper written in pencil. I read it and nearly pissed myself laughing. I made him sign it, and signed it as well. It now hangs in a frame above my writing desk at home. It reads: We have agreed that Artistry and Construction are incompatable.

Good luck!

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: GUEST,Jeep Man
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 08:39 PM

Go for it!! Don't look back 30 years from now and wonder if you could have done it. Don't get to serious and have fun now. Jim

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: JedMarum
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 01:03 PM

Wow - Marion, I was surprised to see my name here!!

Thanks for the comments - I am not sure if I should offer congratulations or my condolences, though!! Having made the move myself just a couple of years ago, I suspect you're in for some very tough times making ends meet; hence my condolences - but if you're really determined and really lucky, you'll manage, I'm sure! Still it is good have your fate in you own hands, be your own boss, wok hard at what you love, and develop your music to a serious level. All of these things make me say congratulations.

All the best with your new venture!

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Willie-O
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 10:01 AM

Marion, I am so proud of you. You have both the talent and even more important, the dedication to the craft, to go a long way.

And you have inspired me.

I'm gonna have to practice more.

Bill

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 09:58 AM

L'Chayim. Go for it. The only things in this life that I regret are the things I haven't tried.

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Marion
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 09:15 AM

Thanks Greg, I'm sure I'll be consulting the Cat about European busking and couches. Think I'll wait till after Christmas to think about that though!

Marion

Greg: "When they say 'Follow your bliss', they make it sound like it's going to be fun."

Charma: "Yeah, that's how they suck you in. It's kind of like the army and 'Be all you can be'."

Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Nov 02 - 02:18 PM

Legend has it that Tom Robbins, author of such literary snickers bars as Another Roadside Attraction and Even Cowgirls Get the Blues, worked at the Seattle Times newspaper and did his own writing on the side. But he felt like he didn't have enough time to devote to his own writing and feared that he would never accomplish anything worthwhile. Frustrating! One morning while driving to work, he made a decision. He pulled his car over to the curb, got out, went into a phone booth, and called the paper.

"I'm not coming in today."
"Oh. You're calling in sick?"
"No, I'm calling in well."
"What? What do you mean 'calling in well?'"
"Let's put it this way: I've been sick for a long time. But not anymore. So I'm calling in well. I quit."

He went home and sat down at the typewriter. The rest is history.

Don Firth