O Brother vs. Morons

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: Matt_R
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 06:17 PM

Music changes through time! Get over it!

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 06:14 PM

A thing much worse than having commercial country radio ignore your favorite music would be to have them embrace it. Can you imagine if the Nashville recording community tried to turn out their version of Ralph Stanley and Emmy Lou? The resulting all-pervasive Muzak versions of "O, Death", performed by a bunch of bargain basement Boxcar Willies, would constitute a whole new circle of hell.

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 06:01 PM

I saw the video yesterday and rushed out to buy the CD today -I doubt whether any of the CD would ever be played on British radio .

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: chip a
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 11:47 AM

I lived in Boston for several years back in the sixties. I even remember some of it! In fact , I was raised on the South Shore. Back then, I could listen to all sorts of alternative stuff on the radio. I bet the choices are even greater now. But, that doesn't help all of us who are out in the country now. The best I can find on todays radio where I live is a country oldies show on Friday night out of Atlanta. Whistle Stop, I don't guess I'd trade the Ga. mountains for Boston but I wish I had your radio!

Chip A.

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: First Amendment
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 11:45 AM

Alex/Mousethief may have called Midchuck a liar, and then lied about calling Midchuck a liar, but it is my job to preserve and protect Alex/Mousethief's right to call Midchuck a liar and then deny that he did so.

First Amendment

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 11:44 AM

Ah, yes, the HORROR of commercial radio. I NEVER listen to it by choice. I have it foisted on me in stores and restaurants, even in a natural health clinic!!! (how ironical)

And the utter banality of what passes for "country" music these days. What a joke. Go wind up your Garth and Shania dolls, and put them beside Barbi and Ken.

Willie Nelson, Johhny Cash, and Emmy Lou Harris play real country music. Remember? Hank Williams did too. That was then.

But Big Brother is minding the till now, folks, and has been for a long time.

God help humanity.

- LH

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: mousethief
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 11:40 AM

Midchuck, I never accused you of lying. I just said it didn't become you, and further hoped you were instead misinformed.

Alex

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: Midchuck
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 11:33 AM

Lying? For stating the impression I got of what she was trying to do?

A lie consists of an intentional untruth, told with the intent to deceive. You can never call another person's statement about his subjective impression a lie unless you can read minds.

I will go so far as to confess to expressing myself badly. I should have said: "...who, it appears to me, made it her mission to decide...."

But there's a difference between sloppy self-expression and lying. To most of us.

Peter.

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: mousethief
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 11:16 AM

Well, Al Gore is the husband of the woman who made it her mission to decide, on behalf of every American, what music it was appropriate for us to listen to,

No, this is not true. She was working for a labelling/rating system, much like we have for movies. Then every American could decide, based on a more accurate appraisal of the contents, what music they would listen to (or let their kids listen to, which was more the issue).

Lying about Tipper Gore doesn't become you, Midchuck. I hope you were just misinformed.

Alex

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 10:53 AM

I think the shift in country music programming was more gradual than was suggested earlier. In fact, Chet Atkins has long been regarded as one of the driving forces behind the commercialization of country radio in the 1960's and 70's (not as a performer, but as a producer). I see it as the inevitable product of the corporations that control radio getting larger, and hence exerting greater control and making safer choices. To beat my earlier McDonalds/food-based analogy to death, imagine a multinational corporation acquiring the local diner -- how long do you think the food would stay the same? At best, they would try to co-opt the "atmosphere" of the place, so as to replicate it on a large scale. They would give you artificial diner food (served by someone named "Alice" in an "authentic" old-fashioned waitress outfit), just like country radio sometimes attempts to give us artificial "down-home pickin'," complete with cowboy hats and "aw shucks" posturing. It's pretty transparent, really.

The good news, at least in my part of the world (Boston, Massachusetts, USA), is that there are alternatives on the airways. Many of the public radio stations (some of which operate under the auspices of local colleges and universities) are heavily into acoustic programming, much of which is quite good, and is run by people who have a real love for (and knowledge of) the music. Programs like Mountain Stage are routinely broadcast around my area, featuring some of the best acoustic, folk, blues, etc. performers around. And some of the other programming (Prairie Home Companion, etc.) also features some outstanding people. The good stuff is out there, as long as you know where to look. Why would anyone with ears even bother with big commercial country radio?

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 10:38 AM

Well, I enjoyed the movie, primarily the music rather than the cow (udderly distasteful) and frog abuse (rivetting), and just maybe some old time country music/revivalist groups will get more serious consideration from major record labels. Of course, lord knows if they'll be able to deal with their success any better than any others, but good folk musicians deserve a crack at it, and who knows, maybe it will be a new wave!

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 10:05 AM

I find it interesting that, in this case, de-regulation is being blamed for the lack of diversity. According to most of the de-regulation arguments, "open markets" foster competition which brings us lucky consumers more choices. How will the de-regulators (most often from the Republican camp) spin such obvious empirical evidence refuting one of their primary arguments?

By the way - Nashville has always tried to exclude what they couldn't control. That's why you rarely here Waylon or Willie on the radio, and why the best country music comes from Austin, Texas and has for a very long time.

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: Midchuck
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 09:28 AM

I don't consider myself a Libertarian. It was just less repugnant than either the Demmicans or the Republicrats, and I've never forgiven Nader for killing off the VW bug because he was uncomfortable with a final-oversteering car.

As near as I can figure, Libertarians-with-a-capital-L are simply anarchists who figure that if government is eliminated, people will all, by some magic, start behaving decently of their own accord.

I call myself a Rational Anarchist. Heinlein originated the term, as far as I know.

Anarchist = government is evil.

Rational = as long as people are imperfect, some government is a necessary evil.

Rational Anarchist = The function of the political process is to determine how little government we can get away with, and still have society function acceptably - not to solve all of society's problems by passing more laws.

Peter.

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: kendall
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 09:05 AM

Chuck, what is the difference between a libertarian and an arnachist?

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: kendall
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 09:04 AM

Check out my contribution to the DT. It's called "It sure as hell aint country"

Saw a bumper sticker, STAMP OUT INCEST BAN COUNTRY MUSIC

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: LR Mole
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 08:56 AM

Looking to the movies for music is like looking in a brothel for true love. There's some in there, but the owners would really rather you spend money. And radio is just a fecal siphon; is's just difficult to determine which end is which (not that there's anything wrong with money, but in large amounts it's bad for people).

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: GUEST,Midchuck upstairs
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 08:55 AM

Well, Al Gore is the husband of the woman who made it her mission to decide, on behalf of every American, what music it was appropriate for us to listen to, and didn't get around to asking whether we wanted her help. I'd have voted against him just on that basis, to keep her from acquiring any real power. (Before you start yelling, "You think Bush is better!?" I voted Libertarian.)

The thing with Country radio is especially sad because the point when it changed was so obvious. It was when they revamped the procedure for tracking record sales, and got it into a massive computer database, which established that Garth Vader was really the best-selling recording "artist" in any genre at that time. That told the money boys where to go and what to do. Now you can't get country radio play unless (if male) you're under 40 and have a butt less wide than your hat brim, and sing recycled '70s rock; or (if female) are under 30, have a real cute belly button that your outfit always shows, and sing recycled '70s rock.

Remember when you turned on Country radio and got Willy or Waylon or Emmylou or The Possum? A lot of us do.

"...there's been an awful murder, down on Music Row...."

Peter.

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 08:02 AM

The Al Gore reference is unfortunate, but otherwise the article is right on target. The folks on this forum have known this for a long time, of course. Country radio (like other formats) is to music what McDonalds is to cuisine -- safe, predictable, and ultimately not very satisfying. The good stuff is out there, but first you have to learn where NOT to go looking for it.

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 07:57 AM

Rick,

Crap that is well marketed and backed by huge corporate dollars will always sell. Unfortunately the reverse is usually true.

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: Banjer
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 03:44 AM

Old news here...I haven't listened to commercial radio in years. It is an insult to my intelligence. I listen to cassettes when I drive and CD's or cassettes at home. (Sometimes I'll even drag out some of those old 45 and 33 1/3 records to play)

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: GUEST,Judy Predmore
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 12:40 AM

Interesting article Evy / Ukelady. I've got to get out & see the film, because I hear there's some good music in the film that's not on the soundtrack. I heard the Kossoy Sisters, (Irene Saletan & her sister Ellen...) are in the film but not the soundtrack...

Judy

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 12:16 AM

Sad but oh so true.

By the way, what DOES Al Gore have to do with boring narrow sound-alike Country music? It was headin' in exactly this direction before he came on the scene. Plus, it's exactly the same in Canada. Did he fuck us up as well when we weren't looking? He must be a lot more powerful than I thought. I would have put the blame squarely on the white on white corporate Station Owners. Shania Rules! Awesome! I guess Crap will always sell.

Rick

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: mousethief
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 12:05 AM

I love the way that this is all Al Gore's fault. I'm sure he used to lay awake nights wondering how he could prevent good music from being played on the radio.

Anyway, what right does such a political cheap-shot have being in an article about music?

You'd think the writer was a Mudcatter or something.

Alex

Subject: RE: O Brother vs. Morons
From: Troll
Date: 23 Apr 01 - 11:11 PM

Yer preachin' to the choir, Babe.

troll

Subject: Dave Marsh Article
From: ukelady
Date: 23 Apr 01 - 10:48 PM

Here's an interesting article.

Marsh on Music Dave Marsh - Monday, April 16, 2001

For the past eight weeks, the number one selling country album in the United States has been the bluegrass-based soundtrack to the film "O Brother, Where Art Thou?" The record also is charting in the mid-teens on the pop album chart.

Maybe that doesn't seem like much to you but consider that the most important bluegrass artists of all time - Bill Monroe, the Stanley Brothers, Jimmy Martin and Flatt and Scruggs - never cracked the pop hot 100 at all. Ralph Stanley, the star of O Brother's soundtrack, has been making solo records for about 35 years without ever charting either an album or a single; the Stanley Brothers had only one chart single in 20 years.

Yet country radio programmers recently told the Washington Post they consider this music "poison." Absolutely nothing from the album is being programmed, not even the stuff by the Soggy Bottom Boys, which is a hit on Country Music Television (CMT). If you were already under the impression that there is no more stupid group of people in America than country radio programmers, consider the point proven.

Country radio asks and receives allegiance from its hitmakers that no other format can command. In return, it consistently rewards mediocrity. Mediocrity is exactly the difference between Jessica Andrews' personable 1999 debut album, "Heart Shaped World," and her current "Who I Am," whose title track is the current No.1 country single. Who I Am is so generic that I felt like the title really ought to be Who Am I?

Andrews at No.1 counts for something. But the real story is told by the album charts, where radio airplay is not a factor; only sales count there. There, O Brother is perched at No.14 as I write, gazing down at the Andrews album at No. 56.

Yet no one in country radio is even taking a fling at the O Brother material. Maybe the programmers talk themselves out of it because O Brother also includes some black gospel performances, or because they agree with me that the best thing on it is Stanley's unprogrammable "O Death." But what about the Alison Krauss / Gillian Welch duet on "I'll Fly Away?" What about the novelty potential of "In the Highways" by the pre-adolescent Peasall sisters?

Those can't be played even though they might work, because they might not. Mistakes are fatal to the careers of program directors, even though an environment in which mistakes can't be made is fatal to everything else. Every one of America's 148 country radio stations is being programmed in an environment that forbids such risks. That's because the buying and selling of radio stations in the "deregulated" world brought to you by Al Gore - a politician largely created by wads of Nashville cash - has spawned huge loads of debt and an army of brokers and bankers demanding it be "serviced" (a euphemism in both finance and brothels).

This situation doesn't exist only in country radio. It's worse there - but not much worse. All across the radio spectrum, you can hear almost nothing but nothingness. America's radio is at war with America's music. Broadcasting is sick and getting sicker. But if you're willing to work at it a little, the music - all kinds of it, especially the stuff that can't get airplay - is getting healthier and healthier. Learning to live without commercial radio is forcing people to make smarter records and to be aggressive in seeking alternate paths to their audiences.

This is the final measure of O Brother's triumph. To have broken the stranglehold of the programming morons in the most reactionary bastion of America's music world and gone all the way to No.1 may not be the story of the year, but as a harbinger, it might be the story of the decade.

(c) Copyright 2000 Dave Marsh Syndicated by ParadigmTSA

Here are the threads that have been started on this movie:
1. O Brother, Where Art Thou
2. Lyr Req: o brother
3. Lyr Req: O' Brother, 'rocky candy mountains'
4. New Film, Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?
5. Oh brother where art thou ?
6. O Brother, where, etc.:Soundtrack/conc.
7. Lyr Req: o, brother where art thou soundtrack
8. I've just seen O Brother Where Art Thou
9. O Brother vs. Morons
10. BS: OH BROTHER VIDEO
11. 'Oh Brother' on stage
12. Oh Brother...
13. BS: o brother, where art thou
14. O Brother, Where Art Thou Video
--JoeClone, 19-Dec-01.