BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: GUEST,sinky
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 03:52 PM

God is our conscience,thats all.Just be a good person and heaven will be yours on earth,simple as that.

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 03:32 PM

And sometimes what they say and what they do - have nothing in common. We've all been guilty of that - myself included.

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 03:18 PM

Well said, Frank! As you say, it's not what people profess to believe that matters, but how they behave.

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 02:57 PM

I went through a period sometime recently where I was a little too beligerent when it
came to the discussion of religion. I have met some fine people who I admire that have their religious beliefs inform their behavior in positive ways. If I have offended any of these people, I apologize profusely.

I believe the First Amendment to the Constitution is a Golden Principle. It defends the
rights of people to believe whatever they want. I don't think it is constructive to belittle
anyone's belief system if they are committed to it on a personal level.

I have been mistaken in finding it necessary to defend my non-belief through a negative discourse. The bottom line for me is how do people behave? If they are loving, socially constructive, good human beings then what does it matter what their personal religious beliefs are?

I think that when people who are non-believers such as myself become aggressive and nasty it accomplishes nothing useful. There are those who are believers that I love dearly. I believe that love and a nurturing community are the real "values" that make sense to me.
I am more impressed by how folks behave then what they profess to believe.

I have found folk music to be a great healer. It brings people together of all persuasions.
Animosity and differences melt away when folks sit down to sing and play together.

In short, anger doesn't get it. Only reason and responsible behavior are the best allies.

Apologetically yours,

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Art Thieme
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 02:54 PM

Wishful thinking...
Grasping at straws...

Deathbed conversion = cramming for finals.

Life after death? Wishful thinking...!

What goes around...

...comes around.
Art

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Amos
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 02:42 PM

And God never made no little green apples,
And it don't rain in Minneapolis
In the wintertime....

(I always thought rhyming "apples" and "Minneapolis" was a ballsy move....)



A

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: M.Ted
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 01:10 PM

I've heard it all before--there is no God. No such thing as Love. Jazz isn't music, and Chocolate doesn't make you feel good.

I almost believed it, too, til they tried to sell me a carburator that could get you from Pensacola, Florida to Kenosha, Wisconsin on one tank of gas.

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 12:07 PM

I 2nd Amos' & Susan's applause of Janie's post. That was coherent, meaningful and worthy of saving & re-reading....especially the last part.

therefore:

"Religion is not faith. Faith is not spirituality. Concepts of God or Not-God or No-God, are not religion, faith, or spirituality.   Beliefs are anything one accepts as fact or as true without proof that it is. No man or woman operates in the world without beliefs. We all have beliefs about ourselves, others and the world that largely, and often unconsciously, determine how we interact with others and the rest of creation. I don't know about the rest of you, but I have yet to encounter any human being who moves through the world and interacts with other people in such a way as to suggest they are completely free of all cognitive distortions, or completely aware of all the ways their cognitive distortions interfere with their perceptions.   

Thus the tenet, common in the social sciences, that what one believes to be true has real consequences.

I used to grade essays in a beginning Philosophy class, and I often prayed wished for someone to show that kind of insight. The value of it is, that she managed to clarify the description of how we DO function, without presuming any specific belief system to be 'better'.

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Bert
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 11:49 AM

Your baby has gorn dahn the plug'ole

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Amos
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 11:32 AM

Janie,

Beautifully put.

The inherent origin of the apparent duality? BIG question, yes?

A

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 11:27 AM

coorex

meNtal drains

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 11:26 AM

T-shirts I'd LIKE to see available online somewhere:

1) Rude Agnostic: I don't know and you don't either!
2) Rude Apatheist: I don't care about your silly god!
3) Rude Atheist: There's no goddamn god, goddamn it!

What I find rude is the insistence that someone else ought to tell me when I'm being dumb, and in what way.

And BTW, Anglican spirituality and theology DO deal with the scientific "realities" so many "militantly rude atheists" ASSUME have not been considered.


It always surprises me to see so much perfectly good bathwater being thrown out, given the worldwide concerns about water shortages. ;~) And quite often, there are puir innocent babies in that bathwater, too, swirling down the metal drains of these rude militants. ;~)

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: GUEST,Mrr (at home, who ate my cookie?)
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 10:54 AM

T-shirts available online somewhere:

1) Militant Agnostic: I don't know and you don't either!
2) Militant Apatheist: I don't care about your silly god!
3) Militant Atheist: There's no goddamn god, goddamn it!

What I find dumb is the denial of reality to allow for your faith. If believers would accept reality, and believe that their god created the world to seem to have that reality, that would be fine. E.g. - the Earth is 6000 years old and Humans were created on the 6th day of creation and it was made to appear as if evolution and geology were true. That seems fine. The denial of evolution or deep time, though, is worse than ignorant.

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 10:42 AM

So if you're a dyslexic follower of Gos do you stay awake at night wondering if there is a Sog?

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: GUEST,Peace
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 10:36 AM

Yo:

"apps for the masses"

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Amos
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 10:23 AM

Put your faith in Gos, and you will find Her/it soon enough. She/it appears to those who have faith in Her/it. Gos helps those who help themselves, but not too much.


A

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 10:21 AM

Let us all kneel before Gos and offer thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Peace
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 10:02 AM

Hallaluyah/halalooyuh/hallaylooyah/ JOY!

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: TheSnail
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 09:55 AM

Peace

Gos DOES exist.

I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT! I WILL SIN NO MORE. PRAISE BE TO GOS.

(Is there an alternative OD?)

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Peace
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 09:42 AM

Sorry, Snail, but

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

gOS is a Linux distribution created by gOS LLC, a Los Angeles-based corporation[1]. The company advertises it as "An alternative OS with Google Apps and other Web 2.0 apps for the masses."[2]


Gos DOES exist.

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: TheSnail
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 09:23 AM

Sorry, Amos but Gos does not exist!

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 09:17 AM

Go Janie!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Amos
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 08:11 AM

There is no reason to limit the set of possible solutions to (1) there is a Gos )2) we arw just matter only.

There may, as a third option, be billions of gods, doing a giant averaging act.


A

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 08:05 AM

I have faith in human nature.

Faith that there are good people out there and shits who live off that. What faith doesn't give me is the insight to spot the shits. Experience did it. And not very well.

And yes Mr Sagan was ............. sagacious.

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Stu
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 04:11 AM

Carl Sagan summed it up for me (and I am paraphrasing here).

If there is no God, no omnipresent, omnipotent divine entity in the universe and each of us is nothing more than an aggregation of elements and compounds, our thoughts and dreams simply electrical impluses speeding through synapses and nerves that owe their existence to chance and chemistry, then consider this. We are made up of the elements that comprise the whole universe - these elements were created in the exploding hearts of supernovae, in the fiery cauldrons of gas and plasma where stars are born, in the depths of volcanos and driven from the nuclear core of a thousand million suns.

We are the stuff of the universe, made of it's raw materials and we are conscious of it. We can contemplate our own existence and stand on our small planet and question our very reason for being. We are the universe itself made conscious, the universe contemplating itself, and that makes each one of us so valuable, unique and so full of potential it is truly staggering to comprehend. All this, at the very least. If we are just biomechanical machines. No God(s).

To my mind, that is truly wondrous and inspirational.

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Janie
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 12:16 AM

Thanks for that link, Amos.

As I've followed this thread, I keep thinking that it is no more, and no less, than a reflection of the the dynamic that exists within the duality of freedom - control.    I know virtually nothing about any of the sciences, but my impression is this duality is inherent in all the known processes and systems of the known universe. It seems to me, (and this may simply be my ignorance,) that this duality, and the paradox it embodies are an essential component of all the dynamic systems that make up creation, whether one is considering particles, molecules, genomes and amoeba, or stars, solar systems and universes.

If all that existed was One (and one what doesn't matter, all that matters is that whatever it is, it is all there is, there is only one of it, and it is made up of only One - no component parts or internal systems) then the freedom-control duality would not exist. Add something else, anything else, and the duality and the accompanying paradox are there. It seems to me to be pure logic.

Religion is not faith. Faith is not spirituality. Concepts of God or Not-God or No-God, are not religion, faith, or spirituality.   Beliefs are anything one accepts as fact or as true without proof that it is. No man or woman operates in the world without beliefs. We all have beliefs about ourselves, others and the world that largely, and often unconsciously, determine how we interact with others and the rest of creation. I don't know about the rest of you, but I have yet to encounter any human being who moves through the world and interacts with other people in such a way as to suggest they are completely free of all cognitive distortions, or completely aware of all the ways their cognitive distortions interfere with their perceptions.   

Thus the tenet, common in the social sciences, that what one believes to be true has real consequences.

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 08:39 PM

Liar, liar, pants on fire! Ya can't fool me that easily. ;-)

(that was directed toward Peace)

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Amos
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 07:42 PM

"n a case now pending in a federal court in Brooklyn, Mamie Manneh of Staten Island stands accused of having brought smoked bushmeat – known colloquially as monkey meat – into the United States without proper permits, in violation of the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species.

Ms. Manneh's defense is that in her religion the eating of bushmeat has both a cultural and a spiritual significance. In an affidavit, 17 of her co-religionists declared, "We eat bushmeat for our souls." Manneh's lawyer, Jan Rostal, has analogized the African-based practice to the consumption at a Passover seder of foods like bitter herbs "that might have some reference to the Exodus." In a motion to dismiss, Rostal said that the case, while apparently novel, "represents the sort of clash of cultural and religious values inherent in the melting pot that is America."

No, it doesn't. It represents a more fundamental clash: between the imperatives of religion and the rule of law. The question raised by the case is whether the fact of a religious belief is sufficient to exempt the believer from the application of generally applicable laws — laws (like driving on the right-hand side of the road) that apply to every citizen no matter what his or her religious, ethical or moral convictions. Is religious belief a special case, so special that the devout practitioner gets a pass?"

The above introduces a long and thoughtful essay by Stanley Fish in the New York Times on the delicate balance between the commons and acts based on faith. I recommend it for a wide background on the isue. It can be found on this page. It is entitled

"Monkey Business: RELIGION AND THE LAW"

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Peace
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 06:53 PM

Click the link, LH. It is a nude Winona.

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 06:51 PM

The thought of either Orson Welles or Oscar Levant in a tutu is a little more than I can handle.

Pass the Rolaids, please!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 05:48 PM

Well, of course, shimrod. ;-) Everyone has faith...only in what(?) is the question? And by their faith are their actions steered as long as this life endures...and perhaps beyond it as well. But we'll have to wait and see about that, right?

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 05:44 PM

Hi LH,

I admire (and respect!) your eloquence and your passion - but it sounds a bit like faith to me ... But that's a bit churlish - sorry that I'm such a grumpy old materialist.

And thanks for that review, 'Amos' ... what can I say but "Amen" to that?

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 04:37 PM

God is Orson Welles playing Oscar Levant in a tutu?!?!?

Hm, that actually works...

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 03:36 PM

that's Oscar Levant? I thought it was Orsen Wells.

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 03:22 PM

Well, too bad for you! You've just missed seeing Oscar Levant in a tutu.

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 03:14 PM

I refuse t click on a unknown suspicious link to the exstence of someone's god.

You can lead a horse to water
but you can't make it click a link.

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 03:09 PM

Cool! ;-) Sounds like a movie I'd love to go and see.

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Amos
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 02:55 PM

The San Francisco Chronicle's Mark Morford is a trouble maker, that much is for certain. HEre's some commentaryhe make on organized religion and a newly released film, The Golden Compass, excerpted from his column:

"

The sum of all fears: organized religion

Mark Morford

Friday, November 30, 2007


It has become a rule, some sort of law of the popular culture upon which any open-minded human worth her soul can rely with utter and perfect clarity.

It goes like this: If there is a piece of art, a TV show, a column, a book, a movie, a blog, a movement, a wine bottle or sexual position that somehow deeply threatens the various ultraconservative sects of Christian-blasted America to the point where their pale, dour representatives demand boycotts and distribute angry pamphlets to try to stop people from experiencing said hunk of culture because of how negatively it portrays their seething, condemnatory God, well, it's time to break out the Champagne. Or buy that book. Or get very, very naked. Or all of the above.

So it is with the first movie made from Philip Pullman's astonishing "His Dark Materials" trilogy, "The Golden Compass," a complex, mystically gorgeous, spiritually dense, big-budget fantasy epic so far removed from the cute wizardry of Harry Potter and the thin, childish, monochromatic Christian morality of, say, "The Chronicles of Narnia," that it might as well be a Coen brothers movie. On acid.

Oh my God yes - they are protesting. They are pamphleting. From the Catholic League and Focus on the Family to evangelical/fundamentalist Christian blogs from here to Colorado Springs, they are calling on their trembling armies to boycott the film because they believe that Pullman's brilliant books - which, by the way, if I had the power, I would place in the eager hands of every youngish human on the planet, especially the girls - are not only aggressively anti-Christian, but that they also describe, as their grand finale, nothing less than the death of God. This is what they say.

And here is the terrific thing: They are absolutely right.

But let's be a bit more specific, shall we? Because as any fan of "HDM" knows, it ain't really about God, per se. Pullman's luminous novels have nothing to do with rejecting faith or destroying the spirit or inhibiting the exploration of what it means to be divine. They are, in fact, the exact opposite. They relish spirit and the magic of belief and love, are soaked through with divine inspiration of a kind any intelligent Christian (or honest spiritual seeker of any stripe, for that matter) should crave. This is what makes them so incredible.

The nefarious thing the books aim to kill is religious authority. It's about the destruction of dogma. It's about power, about who wants to control and manipulate life on Earth, about the blind, ignorant, even violent adherence to insidiously narrow codes of thought, belief, behavior, sex, desire and love.

This, of course, is the God of organized religion. This is the false deity that promotes numb groupthink, inhibits growth and abhors the feminine divine (perhaps the books' most beautiful, inspiring theme), the same paranoid, dreadful God that votes for George W. Bush because he will smite the icky gays and protect us from vile pagans and Buddhists and Muslims and feminists and frumpy genius atheist British writers. If humanity is to flourish, to get over its addiction to war and guilt and fear, this is the false God that should - that must - die.

Although the books have as their evil antagonist a sinister cabal called the Magisterium (obvious parallel: Catholic Church), they also have a slew of dark characters in service of the Magisterium, various assassins, double agents and robot drones running around trying to annihilate the children's spirit, destroy magic and lock down faith forever. Let us call these robotic drones, oh, say, the Catholic League. Or Focus on the Family. Gosh, no wonder they're a little peeved.

But it's almost too easy, is it not? Even a child can see that these people are so far from true spirit, so far from open consciousness, it's a bit like comparing a lint ball to a cloud bank, a dung beetle to a flower bed. They are spiritual caricatures, the creepy clowns in organized religion's gloomy circus, all scrunched brows and gnarled hands and so much repressed sexuality that it would make a porn star wince. Really, why give their silly protests any attention at all?

..."

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 02:39 PM

I don't see why anyone here would object to your basic position as you have stated it, shimrod. I certainly wouldn't.

However, I can't relate to this part of what you said: "There may be an omnipotent, omniscient Creator for all I know - but I've never seen the slightest bit of evidence for one - but evidence could show up one day. But if He really is omni-this 'n' that, you'd think that He would be fairly conspicuous, wouldn't you?"

Heh! It sounds as if you are talking about an interstellar version of Pablo Picasso or something...hiding out there in a studio somewhere beyond the Andromeda Nebula...the "Creator", planning his next creation.

This is a fallacious concept to use when positing a God, in my opinion, because it's a very limited concept based on our own experience in dealing with limited phenomena, and mostly...just in dealing with other people. Everything and everyone we know has a location, a description, a history, a beginning, and an end. That's what you seem to be imagining the fictional God you describe to have!

Well, I think if you were to investigate the deeper mystical aspects of Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, and pretty well all the other isms out there, you would discover that the God or the transcendent reality that they are attempting to relate to in their teachings is NOT an individual being with a location...but a principle that is intrinsic in EVERYTHING. It is omnipresent. It's a bit like gravity, you might say. Therefore it's everywhere, not somewhere, and it has no beginning or end, no observable characteristics, no defining boundaries, no limitations.

As such, everything is evidence of that God! Or nothing is. ;-) And that is strictly a matter of individual persuasion or individual taste as to how you look at it. One person can look at another human being or at the sky...and see God revealed therein! Another person will look at the same human being and see only a competitor or an opportunity! And he will look at the sky and see only clouds, sun, light effects, and perhaps a bird flying by. One of those views is more mundane than the other, that's all. One is concerned with the surface of things, the other goes way beyond the surface of things. Science is not going to resolve this matter one way or the other. It can't. Neither is logic going to resolve it. Neither will experiments in labs resolve it. Neither are your words or mine on this forum going to resolve it. It will remain ungraspable and insoluble by any form of human observation or analysis. It's a complete mystery....as is the origin of life itself.

The less a person can stand to be confronted with an insoluble mystery, the more irritated he may become at someone else's faith in something he himself cannot see! But it really doesn't matter. Each to his own.

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 02:06 PM

Let's state my position:

Anyone can believe in anything they like and I fully respect their right to do so. But some religious people expect others not only to subscribe to those beliefs but to live their lives in accordance with them.

In order to persuade me to respect those beliefs (rather than to respect their right to hold them - there is a big difference!), let alone live my life in accordance with them, such people are going to have to do a lot better than to evoke the nebulous concept of 'faith'.
And because such people don't seem to be able to do any such thing, perhaps they should 'pipe down a bit'.

And I still insist that you can't prove a negative. The Universe is vast (really, really big!!) and we only know about an insignificant amount about an insignificant corner of it. There may be an omnipotent, omniscient Creator for all I know - but I've never seen the slightest bit of evidence for one - but evidence could show up one day. But if He really is omni-this 'n' that, you'd think that He would be fairly conspicuous, wouldn't you?

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Peace
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 01:36 PM

I believe in G-d. I just choose not to talk about it.

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 01:32 PM

Hmmmmmmm

what about Martin Carthy? And that notsominor deity John Kirkpatrick?

In some peoples' eyes....................

Feet of clay? so what?

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 01:26 PM

Well, it looks like the consensus here is that a belief in a higher authority is fine as long as you don't force your god(s) on me.

Sound reasonable to me. As for the existence of such a supreme being, well, like an afterlife you'll know soon enough.

I've already made my decision about it and no, I'm not going to tell you what it is. So there. Nyah.

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 01:02 PM

More proof

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 12:58 PM

Okay, Amos. ;-) I imagine I would probably agree with most (if not all) of the objections that Dawkins raises against "the toxic nature of some theisms".

I find that when people are arguing against the existence of God...they are invariably talking about a version of God that I don't believe in anyway. They're talking about a straw man they erected in their own mind. Although I do tend to believe in some kind of divine principle at work in life, and I do tend to believe I have a soul that will survive death....that doesn't mean I necessarily believe in any of the specific things that someone is objecting to when he says, "There is no God." He is objecting to something he imagines that someone else believes, he has created it in his mind in its most stupid version possible so he can gaze on it with utter disdain, and it's quite possibly a long way away from what the other people actually DO believe.) And anyway, what someone else believes is really nobody's business as long as that someone else minds his OWN business.

Do people have "a right to be stupid", someone asked? People have a right to be themselves. You may think it's stupid the way they are. So what? Someone else undoubtedly thinks you're stupid too. ;-) I guarantee it. As long as they don't violate your right to be yourself or someone else's right to be themselves they have done nothing to deserve your condemnation.

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 12:37 PM

Proof of Gods existence

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Stu
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 10:35 AM

"Yeah, but how often do you see kings traipsing through airports?"

It's our elected representatives that need to be called into question.

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 10:24 AM

According to Miciu Kaku there are 5 stages of civilization based upon their technological use of energy in the Universe.

We are yet to be a class 1 civilization. A class 3-5 civilization would certainly have energy manipulation tehnology that would be God like in anyone's book.

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Amos
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 10:19 AM

Yeah, but how often do you see kings traipsing through airports?



A

Subject: RE: BS: There aren't any Gods (not even Jesus)
From: Peace
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 10:13 AM

Y'all gotta understand that God/G-d/gods ain't the problem. The difficulty arises when people insist that THEIR understanding of GGg is the correct one, and then they begin to TELL you about it.

"Why, just last Thursday me and GGg was talkin' and HHh told me that what I am about to tell YOU is . . . ."

People like that should be flayed--at least once. Then maybe flayed again to make the memory stick. I loved the scene in "Airplane" when the Hari Krishna guy accosts the fellow in the airport and receives a right for his efforts. T'was a Divine Right I think. Speaking of which, it's snowing and cold here. Have a great day everyone.