History and mythology of WW1

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Teribus
Date: 30 Dec 15 - 03:13 AM

To those who doubt Haig's capability as a leader take a look at the date given in the quotation supplied by Akenaton then consider that having had the best that the Germans could throw at them in their last gasp effort to win the war Haig on the 8th August 1918 went over onto the attack - it was to be and is still considered to be the most successful offensive campaign ever fought by the British Army - and by 11th November 1918 the war on the western front was all over.

GUEST - 29 Dec 15 - 05:19 PM Couldn't agree more.

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 06:56 PM

Quotations from famous Scots.

"Every position must be held to the last man: there must be no retirement. With our backs to the wall, and believing in the justice of our cause, each one of us must fight to the end."

Field Marshall Earl Haig, Order of the Day, 12 April 1918. Douglas Haig was born in Edinburgh in 1861.

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 05:19 PM

Cast not your pearls before swine comes to mind, Teribus.

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 03:40 PM

Teribus has claimed that he has found the records of 6 Tommy Kerrys. What he has failed to say is that a huge proportion of WW1 records were destroyed during the blitz of WW2.

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 02:09 PM

"Jom could you please give us that again in English."
Typos again shipmate - perfectly understandable and you know it
You deliberately launched into a defence of French to avoid responding to all the other cock ups - which you have yet to respond to.
There - that'll save you having to ask the nearest five year old to explain it to you.
"Jom you said that Tommy Kenny was a soldier, yet you could not state where he served,"
Wasn't what we were there for - all in his documents (I've told you this several times - even when you sneered at our poor collecting technique)
"I resorted to IWM records and found the service records of six Tommy Kenny's who served in the Army during the Great War"
And you said none were from Liverpool
"What by asking about your Uncle who served in the Second World War??"
You had as much information as you did on Tommy Kenny - more in fact yet you drew a blank, having said it was relatively easy.
You said you were unable to - the "spending good money" is an addition to the equation - is it any wonder that nobody believe a word you say - you make it up as you go along?
"YOU accused the Military Police of forcing men over the top at gunpoint and pointed to Tommy Kenny and your third hand hearsay source as proof"
More misrepresented distortions - I said Tommy Kenny told us that men were forced over the top - by being beaten and sometimes at gunpoint - didn't use it to justify anything - I reported the contents of our recordings.
At no time did mention the military police having done so - will you please stop making things up as you go along - it's now getting very silly.
"YOUR story changed to Special Groups of Military Policemen gunning down troops who didn't move quick enough and who returned to British Lines"
Sighhhh - for the umpteenth time, Isaid no such thing.
The report of military police summarily executing those who didn't go over the top quickly enough came from the website you were linked to by the grandson of a veteran - he even gave the squad a name (which escapes me at present)
You went though somersaults trying to claim this wasn't true so it's hard to believe you have forgotten - once again - stop making things up.
Corroborated by whom - the word of somebody who was there suits me far better than a whitewash of century old events which the nation has every reason to be deeply ashamed of.
You are obviously ot going to respond to any other of the points made (other than to claim that you already have), so unless you learn to sort out fact from fiction, I suggest we're done here.
If you weren't so struttingly and unpleasantly arrogant in trying to pass over your bullshit, perhaps you wouldn't look so stupid when it all collapses around your ears - that goes for the pair of you - though I have to admit that your contrasting styles are amusing - your Bill Sykes to Keith's Uriah Heep.
Have a nice evening not - of to listen to some superb singing
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 12:29 PM

"yous smokscreen in putting up French as a good leader when he had nothing whatever to do with what was being said."

Jom could you please give us that again in English.

In 1914 French (That is General Sir John French) handled the minute BEF very well as they were attacked by the extreme right of the German offensive through Belgium. At times outnumbered 3:1 he delayed the German advance, causing them considerable casualties and succeeded in over stretching them to such an extent that a gap opened up that the French Army took advantage of and that resulted in the Battle of the Marne which was a victory for the Entente Powers -it also signaled the end to any prospect of a rapid victory in the west for the Germans and the death of the Schlieffen Plan. In doing all this French kept the BEF intact and in the field as a fighting unit.

In 1915 however in offensive operations he proved to be too timid and on at least two occasions his handling of the reserve prevented a breakthrough occurring - As a consequence of this he was replaced in December 1915 and Haig took over.

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 12:29 PM

My Grandfather served in WW1. No idea what regiment, rank or even where. I suppose that puts me with the vast majority. Could I look it up? Maybe I could but would I be any the wiser? I doubt it. He died fifteen years before I was born. He was the subject of stories that were funny till my Dad's generation came back from the second war apparently. All of a sudden, his deafness, shakes and inability to sleep had an explanation.

What point is Teribus making? Is his stance so utterly without foundation that he spends his sad life looking up irrelevancies in order to question the main points?

You don't need War Office bollocks, Google Maps are all you need to see the extent of the war graves. Tell me again it was well planned, tell me again the poor cunts were well led. Tell the poor cunts they knew what they were doing and it was a good idea.

Pathetic stupidity from someone with no sense of shame. "War by definition is an acceptance of failure". Kitchener said that about the politicians. A bit of lucid insight amongst his failings.

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 12:13 PM

Jom you said that Tommy Kenny was a soldier, yet you could not state where he served, what Regiment or Corps he served in and when he was in France or wherever. I resorted to IWM records and found the service records of six Tommy Kenny's who served in the Army during the Great War. You put me to the test? What by asking about your Uncle who served in the Second World War?? WTF would I spend good money doing that you PRAT, what possible relevance would that have.

YOU accused the Military Police of forcing men over the top at gunpoint and pointed to Tommy Kenny and your third hand hearsay source as proof. When WE pointed out that it is physically impossible to to that (Given the dimensions of a frontline trench - Hey Jom that is the one nearest to the enemy) YOUR story changed to Special Groups of Military Policemen gunning down troops who didn't move quick enough and who returned to British Lines - all without one shred of evidence - I take it that you do know what does constitute evidence don't you (It isn't uncorroborated hearsay for a start Jom)

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 12:08 PM

"I just know what is in the history books."
You don't even know what you've cut-'n-pasted
You have fully declared yourself an arrogant know-all fully paid up meglo.
Once more for old time,s sake (now filed next to your implant theory, for future use)
"Who cares what random know-nothings might believe?
Just political whims from empty heads!
Of course I do not respond to such ignorant twaddle!
I read history books to learn my history!
Normal people do!!"
As you no longer deny your untruthfulness I assume we're agreed on that one.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 11:52 AM

Jim,
If yoiu know so much more about these subjects what's in it for you other than a peacock display of your obviously vast knowledge.

I just know what is in the history books.
Anyone who takes that interest and reads knows every bit as much as I do.

You Jim, have read no history written for at least twenty years.
If you had you would know that it all rubbishes what you believe!

If that is not true, name one such historian who does not rubbish your old myths.
Sheffield, Macmillan, Boot, Pennel, Todman, Snow, Stevenson, Brown, etc.
(More than six already!)

So Jim, you believe what you believe, while informed folk believe the history books.

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 10:08 AM

"grandfather of a veteran"
Should read grandson" before you make a meal of it
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 09:25 AM

" Come on Jom give us an example of that"
You said I had altered Tommy Kenny's story "considerably" - in fact, you deliberately distorted what I had written about Tommy and claimed it was my doing - downright **** manipulation what others have had to say- the fact that you refuse to respond when requested to do so is indicative that it was deliberate.
Your claim that you have answered points when in fact you haven't
your persistent claims that Tommy Kenny was the only soldier to make such statements, yous smokscreen in putting up French as a good leader when he had nothing whatever to do with what was being said.
"What facts Jom?"
Liverpool conditions, democracy since the early part of the 19th century, a classless army..... your crassly stupid claims have all been answered with documented facts yet to refuse to respond to them.
You are quick enough to leap on the mistakes of others yet totally ignore your own trail of wreckage that passes for argument.
"first Military Police were responsible then it became special groups assigned to the task "
That was never part of Tommy Kenny's statement - if you are not lying - put it up - it's still around - I've given you exactly what Tommy said about deserters.
That was a statement by the grandfather of a veteran who included it on his website.
You claim to b able to produce soldiers records - six Tommy Kennys, was it? yet you withdrew that claim when I tried to put it to the test - the fact that you did this to cast doubts on Tommy's war record makes you what you are.
For ***** sake - can't either of you make a statement without lying?
You continue to denigrate the last WW1 veteran - now adding the nice touch that it was edited by the BBC - what are you people on???
Your contempt for those people who fought (now it spreads to Harry's "hearsay" peddling comrades), seems to know no bounds - all in support of the official version that has come down to us from the Military and the politiciansd who brught this bloodbath about.
You pair are the sole defenders of this war - proof enough of what a murderous debacle it really was.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 08:45 AM

"deliberately lied" - Come on Jom give us an example of that (I mean to say according to you our lies as so abundant you should be able to come with such an example fairly quickly)

"he has had the facts pointed out to him and refuss to respond"
- What facts Jom? - you would not know a fact if it jumped up and bit you. One of your facts for example Kitchener was forced to resign" according to Jom the infallible yet the record shows that Lord Kitchener was made Secretary of State for War on the 5th August 1914 and died in that post on the 6th June 1916. And who was that historian and former World War 1 Stretcher Bearer according to Jom the infallible who is still alive and thus managed to outlive the last known veteran of the First World War.

Don't you dare to tell me of lies Carroll your posts are riddled with them. Perhaps you actually should take some time out and practice setting out posts that are lucid and coherent instead of the poorly written garbled nonsense you usually produce.

Another atrocious and baseless allegation made against men who can no longer defend themselves without one shred of substantive evidence to back it up was the utter nonsense about men being forced over the top at gun-point, about summary executions (And yes YOUR STORY DID CHANGE first Military Police were responsible then it became special groups assigned to the task - then you latched onto the Harry Patch interview [edited no doubt by the BBC] supplied by Raggy) And the "evidence" you put forward for this is hearsay from someone who didn't even bother to check if they had ever served in the Army, and a story you heard at third hand - In some ways Jim I really do wish they still had the death penalty where you live and I would then like to see you condemned solely on the basis of what you say constitutes evidence - thankfully to establish proof of anything you need a damn sight better evidence than seems to suit you.

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 07:25 AM

"Thank you at least for acknowledging my veracity."
Obviously lack a sense of irony as well
Jim Caroll

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 07:07 AM

Missed a bit:
"Who cares what random know-nothings might believe?
Just political whims from empty heads!
Of course I do not respond to such ignorant twaddle!
I read history books to learn my history!
Normal people do!!"
This is a perfect example of why you should ot contribute to this forum
If yoiu know so much more about these subjects what's in it for you other than a peacock display of your obviously vast knowledge.
As well as being the most dishonest and inhuman person I have ever encountered you are also the most arrogant if you believe this
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 06:56 AM

There you go Keith - you are not going to respondy honestly to anything and are going to cotinue to nause up these discussions
Do not accuse us of lying while you behave the way you do
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 06:46 AM

Never been one for "belonging" to groups but I could make an exception if I could join the "Muskets", if only to add further upset to the usual suspects.

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 06:24 AM

Rag, I ordered it when you first started quoting it.
It is a little late, but any day now.

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 06:22 AM

Your own 'honesty' on what your less-than-half-a-dozen historians have said,

More than that but about six who are very well known.
Reminder, you can not find a single one who believes your version!

your claims that nobody has challenged your statements,

No historian has. The statements are those of historians!

your cxlaim to have read books yet have refused to respond to contradictions,
What contradictions?
I have been reading books about this all my life!

your whittling down your entire support for every single aspect of the war to 'I have only ever claimed three points,

The war is a huge subject. I have only ever defended those three points which you have utterly failed to refute!

your manipulation of what is acceptable from you and what is acceptable from the rest of us,

I have no idea what you are talking about! Have you?

your constant claims of "all" or "the majority" of historians backing your archaic attitude to this bloodbath,

ARCHAIC!!!! Theses are the considered and researched findings of all the historians!
Remember, you have failed to find a single one outside the consensus!

your refusal to respond to what some of us believe to be the major points of the war

Who cares what random know-nothings might believe?
Just political whims from empty heads!
Of course I do not respond to such ignorant twaddle!
I read history books to learn my history!
Normal people do!!

- and then claiming you already have...... amply bears out your veracity in these discussions.

Thank you at least for acknowledging my veracity.
I believe I have responded to all your points but again, if I have missed one, put it up and I will again.

You persistently lie and distort and put stuff out of context.

Blatant lie! Each quote came with a link to PROVE it was in context.
You produced no quotes at all. You couldn't.

You have never made your case on any of these threads yet you persistently claim to have "won"
I just said that if you argue about history against the history books, you lose.

You ignore what people say then claim they haven't said anything.

You have found no single historian for me to ignore!
You have not said anything except from inside your own empty head.
No scholarship from you.

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 06:13 AM

"The library will have a copy for me in the next day or two"


Must be a bloody good library if they opened specially over Christmas just for you to order the book.

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 05:56 AM

"You have certainly deliberately lied, particularly what people have actually said"
Terrytoon claimed I changed my story on Tommy Kenny - that was a deliberate lie - my statement was directed to his claim of having unjust things said about him.
He also said "yet when asked for examples the accusers go awfully quiet"
That is a lie - he has had the facts pointed out to him and refuss to respond.
Your own 'honesty' on what your less-than-half-a-dozen historians have said, your claims that nobody has challenged your statements, your cxlaim to have read books yet have refused to respond to contradictions, your whittling down your entire support for every single aspect of the war to 'I have only ever claimed three points, your manipulation of what is acceptable from you and what is acceptable from the rest of us, your constant claims of "all" or "the majority" of historians backing your archaic attitude to this bloodbath, your refusal to respond to what some of us believe to be the major points of the war - and then claiming you already have...... amply bears out your veracity in these discussions.
You persistently lie and distort and put stuff out of context.
You have never made your case on any of these threads yet you persistently claim to have "won"
You ignore what people say then claim they haven't said anything.
You spoil these discussions with your obsessively dishonest behaviour and your desire to "win" something.
Now you are about to tell me I am a liar - which is yet another lie.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 04:52 AM

You have certainly deliberately lied, particularly what people have actually said

That is itself a lie Jim.
I have quoted the historians and only the historians.
You were given links to see the quotes in their original context.

The fact and the truth is that they all rubbished your version of the history.
You have failed to find even one single quote of recent times that supports you, because nothing does anymore.

- it's become instinctive with you - and your silence on the issues that have been pointed out to you have compounded those lies.

If you really think that, just put something up now and you will have it answered at once.
You will not.
You know it is not true.
You can only lie.

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 04:37 AM

"Keith A, Ake, HiLo and myself have been accused of much and called all sorts of things by you lot "
You have certainly deliberately lied, particularly what people have actually said - it's become instinctive with you - and your silence on the issues that have been pointed out to you have compounded those lies.
I have no doubt that your silence will continue
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 04:30 AM

"Personally I agree with Labour's policy of regulating immigration"
Immigration should not be an issue - not while THIS is going on.
Labour's immigration policy is little different than the Tories (just like its political policy in one-party Britain)
The war these people are fleeing from is one we helped to bring about and it is totally immoral and inhuman that we should send these people back, many of them to their certain deaths, until it is settled.
Is that really what Britain has become?
THESE images should be on display in every city in Britain - that is what our policy of trade and appeasement has helped create.
Nigel the Farrago and his like have fed on the Xenophobia my generation took in during our daily post-Empire lessons and has created a strutting little one-policy party which now commands a magnificent %1.00 of the British vote - one seat - so by Ake's reckoning, the rest of Britain is not "of sound mind".
Nige the beer swilling No-brain has gone and stars of the political scene like Tory cast-off-crooks IAN AND CHRIS have stepped in to make up the numbers.
Sorry Ake - the last "Socialist" to have played the race card in the political game in Britain was THIS ONE
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 03:32 AM

Immigration is regulated, and every party has a policy to regulate it. Personally I agree with Labour's policy of regulating immigration.

Free movement within the EU and is a different issue. It has great benefits, for instance allowing our talented young people access to the job markets in the strong economies of mainstream Europe. Cutting off this free movement would damage the prospects of an entire generation.

As far as job creation goes, unrestricted free trade is a much greater problem than restricted immigration. Many more people lose their jobs to imports than do so to immigrants.

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 29 Dec 15 - 03:32 AM

I'll go along with team Musket. Jim appears to be in the team to what I can make out. It means anyone who feels Mudcat deserves better than being a haven for views that Terribulus and Keith thought their well led eager men fought against. 🐴🐴🐴

Fully agree with the anonymous member of the team when they say, if I read it right, that it is bad enough this thread being about war loving armchair jockeys trying to sanitise a shameful event of history without the confused hate exhibited by Akenhateon on any subject he sees "liberals" debating.

Sad, I know. For me, he's welcome to post his irrational weird attacks on people and concepts he confuses, contradicting himself as he goes. In some ways, it is about as insightful and accurate as the inane wittering Terribulus excels in.

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 08:42 PM

" Is there anyone left, of sound mind, who does NOT agree with the UKIP policy of regulating immigration?"
Certainly not anybody who describes themselves a socialist
Ukip is a racist party and anybody who supports their policy is supporting racism.
Maybe of sound mind to you, for me it is the policy that created South African Apartheid and herded six million Jews into extermination.
Nice to see you've stepped out of your closet at last though.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 06:08 PM

On the one hand we have logic and hard facts and on the other la la ideology, personal attacks and puerile name calling. Guess which side has credibility?

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 05:49 PM

"Though he has declared support for Ukip policies and calls Farrago "Mr" - (not "sir" yet, but give us a few more immigrants....!) "    Is there anyone left, of sound mind, who does NOT agree with the UKIP policy of regulating immigration?

And if you think that supporting unregulated immigration makes one a socialist, then its no wonder that you are such a mixed up political train wreck.

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 04:05 PM

I see "Team Musket" have regrouped and are attempting guerrilla tactics :0).....abuse stalking and bullshit will never beat logic and hard facts.

They really are
sad people, I have never encountered such blind hatred.

Of course all wars could be prevented from happening in an ideal world, but this world is far from ideal; and when the guy with the machete comes for your throat you kill him before he kills you.
Just like the defenders of Stalingrad did and just like Assad and Putin are doing.
If Assad had fallen to our bombs three years ago, Syria would be in the hands of ISIS today.

We have finally come round to what I have been suggesting for years, an international coalition to contain the madmen.
This means a complete reversal of policy for the West, but it can work to make the world a safer place.....some people don't deserve liberty or "equality"

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 03:50 PM

"but I do not see how anyone else would have benefited."

How about the 17 million who died, who would otherwise have been alive?

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 02:51 PM

I see the Terribulus and Worm fan clubs are out in force 😹😹😹

I can't be arsed to read too many posts. Are they still claiming those who were there know less than twenty first century "historians?"

When people bow their heads at war memorials, I reckon it's because the likes of Terribulus make the dead wonder why they bothered being butchered if fools never learn. Lest we forget, not lest we marvel at what a spiffing good show it was, you bloody maniac.

Happy New Year

Luv&hugs

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 02:43 PM

I love how Teribus, who has never seen action can, like all idiots who pontificate from the comfort of their armchairs, speak of death and destruction, genocide, loss of a generation and carnage with such authority.

Please go away. Please?

You make decent peoples' skin crawl

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 02:42 PM

"He isn't a socialist Jim."
I knoooooowwww (Liverpool pronunciation if you go up at the end).
I asked him what he thought of equality of opportunity and public ownership - and answer, came there none - he'd have pleaded the Fifth if he didn't live in Scotland.
"He reckons he is in The SNP"
Though he has declared support for Ukip policies and calls Farrago "Mr" - (not "sir" yet, but give us a few more immigrants....!)
"Some Christian churches though, the Quakers"
Would go along with that - always had a soft spot for them since they gave us the use of their floor on the Aldermaston marches
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 02:39 PM

GUEST,Dave - 28 Dec 15 - 06:07 AM

Utter hogwash Dave

"nothing, absolutely nothing, is worth that sacrifice of life and health. And that Keith and Teribus will not even understand that point of view."

Damn right I disagree with that point of view


"I have said that peace could have been negotiated at least twice, and maybe before hostilities even started."

You might think that but no-one else believes it (Interesting concept that though Dave negotiating for peace even before hostilities beak out) - You have failed to tell us how French and Belgian Leaders were going to negotiate their fellow citizens rights, liberties and lives away to their conquerors. The German terms in 1914 and in 1916 were totally unacceptable.


"And that I at least will go further, if Britain had surrendered to Germany in July 1914, that would have been a better outcome than what actually happened."

Now that intrigues me just exactly how could Great Britain have surrendered to Germany in July 1914 - War wasn't declared until August of that year. It is as I said an interesting idea I am absolutely dying to hear how it would have been "better", certainly better for the Germans for sure, but I do not see how anyone else would have benefited.

Are you really such a blithering idiot?

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 01:55 PM

All Christians are pacifist.

Or hypocrites.

Take your choice. They do, changing it often..

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 01:48 PM

Some Christian churches though, the Quakers being a notable example, have been firmly pacifist in outlook, and in WWI I know of examples of people in my wife's family history who declined to fight, but served in ambulance units instead, because of their Christian beliefs.

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 01:27 PM

And then there's the stench of hubris from both TeraByte and the Professor......

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 01:22 PM

He tried.

Even they wouldn't have him. They said, "We may be misogynist homophobic bigots but even we have standards..

He isn't a socialist Jim. He reckons he is but it is a word he learned to spell. He reckons he is in The SNP, a liberal leaning all embracing party that introduced equality into the sectarian sewer we call Scotland. He reckons he is a communist but waffles on in other threads about how lucky The USA are to have the likes of Trump to vote for.

The only message that specimen is consistent with is his insistence that his whole sorry life is someone else's fault.

Sorry, thread drift, I know. But it's bad enough Teribus trying to rewrite history and Keith seeming impressed with him, without the stench of hatred pervading the thread.

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 10:51 AM

Incidentally
"typical "liberal" fairyland!"
Every human being should be given the choice of not taking life if that is their belief - pacifism is something to be admired and not sneered at.
The more liberals there are in the world the less chance there would be of obscenities like World Wars.
'Thou shalt not kill" is supposed to be a basic Christian tenet, though most Christian churches appear to have given themselves a 'get out of jail free' escape clause on that one.
I have little doubt that you will have as little problem with that one as you have with your claimed "socialist!!!" principles when you finally take the plunge and join the god-botherers Ake.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 10:19 AM

"What absolute nonsense!.."
The Nazis could have been stopped had that been the reason in the first place - the persecution of the Jews was well underway by the time WW2 broke out - Britain didn't lift a finger - on the contrary, it appeased Fascism and criminalised those who took up arms to oppose as "premature anti-fascists.
I have never at any time claimed there are no just wars - there are - but the butchery of WW1 certainly doesn't fall under this description.
Isis - by the way - was the result of the world doing nothing about the massacres in Syria - one clown described any attempt to stop Assad as "fascism" (wonder who that was - oh yes - I remember!!)
Now we're up too our arses in wars on other countries (presumably no longer fascism Keith?)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 10:15 AM

Of course they were. Akenaton gets his facts from having American newspapers read to him.

Hey Alex! Tell us all again how Donald Trump and Putin are ok guys eh?

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 10:14 AM

They weren't? Jeez - better check with ALL of the Profesors live, bookshop historians before making a blanket statemant like that.

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 10:03 AM

The Nazis or ISIS were not involved in 1914 though, were they.

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 09:56 AM

"Jim, I think you sum up the difference here, which is that you think, and I agree, that nothing, absolutely nothing, is worth that sacrifice of life and health"

What absolute nonsense!......So the Nazis or ISIS should be allowed to take over the world unhindered.
Do you think the Russian people believe the defence of Stalingrad was a mistake?.......typical "liberal" fairyland!

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 09:55 AM

"As for Teribus, why bother arguing with him?"
Why bother arguing with either of them - they both claim they have "won" something, and totally refuse to take responsibility for whaty they claim or to respond to what others say - like the system that WW1 was fought to defend - they are both well past their sell-by date.
Lying tossers - the pair of them
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 09:48 AM

Recent...

Ernie Wise wrote the "plays what he written" far more recently than Shakespeare wrote his.

I fail to see the logic of Keith A of Hertford's claims.

As for Teribus, why bother arguing with him? He comes out with distorted bullshit and lies. He seems to have a bit of a problem. The sort who, if we were in a pub you'd throw a packet of peanuts to in order to keep him quiet whilst normal people are talking.

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 09:32 AM

Rag,
I have read Marc Ferro's book from cover to cover,

Please tell us what it says about the Lavantie truce 1915 then Rag.

and Gary Mead's book cover to cover,

That is the one titled "The GOOD SOLDIER" but you have only produced negative quotes from it.
You are being dishonest about it.

The quote I provided from Montgomery came from Gary Meads book The Good Soldier, do you really expect me to type out the entire book?

No, but I would expect a balanced view of the work. You have exclusively quoted only the negative.

Try going down to your local library and borrowing the book yourself, if they don't have I am sure they will source it for you.
The library will have a copy for me in the next day or two.
Then we will see Rag,

Dave,
The minor point being that peace could have been negotiated on at least two occasions with goodwill from the rulers on all sides. And that had they done so, millions of lives could have been saved. Very minor point according to you.

It was never part of the argument. You raised it.
I have said that peace could have been negotiated at least twice,
Can you find a single historian who agrees?
No.

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 08:24 AM

"refuse to respond to the point"
"points" of course - good things al;ways come in dozeens
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: History and mythology of WW1
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Dec 15 - 07:56 AM

"No you don't Raggy you rely on cut-n-pastes hastily sought to back up your own rather feeble arguments"
Are we to assume you are just going to walk away from your proven lies and refuse to respond to the point which leave your arguments in tatters
Hardly grounds for claiming the arguments of others "feeble"
It would appear that for you - the war is over
""there is only one thing of any importance – THAT YOU END UP ON THE WINNING SIDE""
Classic!!
Jim Carroll