BS: Retard - The 'R' word

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 12:56 PM

As for Jack Black, he can be quite funny...it depends whether or not he gets a good script to work with.

I loved "School of Rock", for instance.

I am less impressed by Ben Stiller.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: SINSULL
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 12:56 PM

That was my point, Little Hawk. Context determines whether an insult is funny or not. I haven't seen the film and can't judge whether context make the R word funny.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 12:52 PM

Fair enough Kat. I respect that, after all, movies were created to allow us some escape and we should work toward remaining positive in our outlook toward life and those in it.

I also agree with your last sentence, especially the part about "artistic merit".   That is probably why I have issue with some of the posted comments, there are some that are not allowing the performers to use what they consider "artistic merit". You can judge on the outcome of their efforts, but I feel it is wrong to base an opinion on the words of "select" others.

I've watched movies, often on a whim, and realized that my preconceived notions about the actors, plot or directorial intenet were dead wrong - and I ended up either loving or hating the production.

I like to be challenged when I watch a movie, especially if I am paying for it! I like edgy comedies that often use satire or black humor to get their point across. I'm not a fan of horror films, especially slasher-type, but I can understand why some people watch them simply to challenge their fears.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 12:42 PM

You have just explained one good reason why I watch so little TV, Kat.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 12:39 PM

In my belief system, our subconscious is like a computer, it takes in what we feed it without prejudice. In other words, it *believes* whatever we tell it and, in my belief system, works to manifest what I feed it, i.e. if I say I am tired...my subconscious will work at making sure I AM tired. That's a simplistic example, but works for my purposes.

When I read a book, I can be selective, more easily, between what I read and don't read, what I feed my subconscious and that with which I don't care to "program" it.

When I go to a movie, I have less control with music, dialogue and moving images assaulting my senses and my subconsciousness. Therefore, I am more discerning about what I go see. Do I want to fill my subconscious with negative portrayals and derogatory phrases? No. Will I "become" whatever this movie purports, if I go to it? No, of course not, but it does myself, my spirit, my soul no good to fill it with negative crap, so I will not go see this movie.

I am NOT a purist nor a prude. I do see movies with violence, language, etc., esp. when I feel they are important in context and done well, i.e. with artistic merit. I believe in striving for a positive balance.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 12:21 PM

You are just being argumentative, again, Jack.

As you noted, it is a good argument because the discussion has nothing to do with talent for the comparison to be appropriate.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 12:18 PM

>>It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this movie will never become a classical LIKE Huck Finn. Poor comparison, imo.

Here! here! And enough of comparing Ben Stiller to Lenny Bruce and Richard Prior. Its a good argument in theory but in practice Stiller is just not that good and he has a history of lowest common denominator humor.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 12:13 PM

"You're right. At this point I can't expect you to be objective about this either. But the offer is still open. "

That is the problem. Unless I come back with an answer that satisfies you, I am not being objective in your eyes.   That leaves little room to be truly objective.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 12:05 PM

"Will you be selling yourself by the pound?"

In context, that's damn funny, SINSULL (since you heard it from Jacqui, someone you know and love). ;-) But you sure wouldn't want to hear it from too many other people....

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 12:00 PM

You're right. At this point I can't expect you to be objective about this either. But the offer is still open.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: SINSULL
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 12:00 PM

My son was originally diagnosed as retarded and "rode the little bus". He was higher functioning and was usually considered one of the cool kids. But his classmates were often suffering from autism, Asburger's, Tourette's and a host of other problems. Ridicule is not confined to children. I have been around adults who think "the dummy" doesn't know or care what's going on and so feel free to ridicule. These same geniuses think it's funny to torment the homeless.

That said, context determines all. I wouldn't see this movie for all the money in the world - it's pure crap. But maybe the R word fits the script. I can't think of a movie I have seen in which any character who calls a mentally challenged person "Retard" is not the obvious bad guy. loser. hateful human being, etc.

Jacqui and I constantly taunt each other with "silly old bat" or "daft old bag". When I said I was considering prostitution to supplement my income she asked "Will you be selling yourself by the pound?"
In context, funny. Under other circumstances, downright mean.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: DebC
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 11:58 AM

I am with you, Kat. My reasons for not seeing this movie are pretty simple: after viewing the trailers, it just looked like a movie that I wouldn't be interested in.

As for all the controversy, what it HAS done has given my husband and I some pretty good discussions about humour, satire and irony.

Debra Cowan

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 11:53 AM

Kat - who the hell said it would become a classic? It has received great reviews, but I doubt it will become a cherished film. However, it is far from a poor comparison because the issue is the same - use of offensive words to tell a story.

I'm not urging people to go see it!   

What I am pointing out, and it is obviously making people uncomfortable, is that many people have preconceived notions AND develop their opinion based on a single-sided media report. You are right, people usually gather what info they can - but in this case people are gathing only the information they wish to hear.

"I'm sure you'll be unobjective about the experience. I know I won't be."
Well, there you have it.   You know very well that if I came back with a positive review you would accuse me of being "unobjective".

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 11:45 AM

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this movie will never become a classical LIKE Huck Finn. Poor comparison, imo. Plus, I never advocated burning the film, banning it or anything else other than that I have no desire to see it. Do you go see every movie before you can decide if you want to see it or not? Of course not. One usually gathers what info they can, through previews, reviews, etc. to help them decide to go see it or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 11:42 AM

Ron - Go ahead and see the movie. I'll even pay for the ticket. PM your address and I'll send you 10 dollars { you'll have to buy your own popcorn }. Then report back and tell us how enlighted the movie is for you. I'm serious. I'm sure you'll be unobjective about the experience. I know I won't be.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 11:36 AM

"I usually expect you to be more openminded than that. All I've tried to do is point out that there is a stink being made about this movie. I haven't called for it to be banned. But yes I will stand up and say that the word retard is offensive to me. As it is to you. So what's the problem? How am I on a high horse? "

Wesley, I am being very open minded - but you seem to ignore that.

You are right, we both agree that the word "retard" used as a noun is offensive. So if you are not on a high horse, then why would you accuse me of being on one?

What you are failing to acknowledge is the fact that films, books and other art forms CAN use such offensive words in telling a story or creating a vile character that does not draw sympathy but exposes a flaw. You have prejudged a movie based on your preconceived notions of the cast. These are actors and they are playing a role. Judging this role without having seen the problem in question is the same as judging a person you have not met based on physical appearance.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 11:32 AM

Listen, guys, when it comes to riding the high horse you ain't seen nothin'. No siree. I used to ride a horse so dang high that when I was in the saddle I couldn't even see the ground! I had to pack a parachute just in case of a quick dismount being required, but that horse was good as gold, so I never needed to use the chute. My loyal gal Tuesday (that was her name) would be waitin' for me back at the ranch where we had one of them great big long ladders that are normally used by the fire department and she would prop that ladder up alongside old "Fireball" so I could dismount in relative safety.

Well, the view you would get from atop old Fireball when riding the range was something that would have brought tears to Tom Russell's eyes, lemme tell ya, although the air did get a mite thin up there...so I hadda remember to breathe deep so as not to get lightheaded. Did my lungs a world of good.

I rode old Fireball for many a year until he finally died tragically. Got hit by a low flying fighter jet with some damn pilot who was joyriding around at below 2,000 feet. They should have taken that fool's wings away. He ejected and survived, but the horse and the plane both suffered fatal damage, I'm sorry to say.

So I ain't ridin' the high horse no longer. But God, I have fond memories...

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: GUEST,Sawyer
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 11:25 AM

Why does the name Teribus come to mind when I read this ?

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 11:24 AM

I'm not sure how I could have twisted these words:

"If you wish to be a lemming and follow whatever partyline you choose, let others think for you and then don't worry about a thing. Perhaps the rest of us would like an opportunity to think for ourselves and not judge with preconceived notions that could very easily be wrong."

I usually expect you to be more openminded than that. All I've tried to do is point out that there is a stink being made about this movie. I haven't called for it to be banned. But yes I will stand up and say that the word retard is offensive to me. As it is to you. So what's the problem? How am I on a high horse?

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 11:16 AM

Comeon Wesley. You are being offensive by twisting my words. You are the one that is riding the high horse here, not me. I repeatedly said that I do not approve, nor would I use, the "r" word. I also said that I have not seen the film and cannot pass judgement,nor have I tried to. I only spoke on what I have read and a clip I've seen - but that is far different from what you have the gall to accuse me of. You can accuse me of being on a high horse, but I am not judging something that I have not seen and I am reading more than one opinion.

You know, I would hope that the word offends people who watch the movie - THAT very well could be the point they are trying to make. THAT is what Lenny Bruce did.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 11:07 AM

Wow Ron – I'm a lemming and you're not? How broadminded of you. I would think the air is getting a little thin up on that high horse you're riding. Please note that at the beginning of the thread I provided links to both sides of the discussion. I've never said the movie should be banned. But I find the word offensive and I'm trying to point out that this movie uses the word – from everything I hear – about 17 times. I had never planned on seeing the movie in the first place. Ben Stiller is not my cup of tea and Jack Black is like listening to nails on a blackboard. And if you remember Ben Stiller was in a movie called "What about Mary" if I remember the title correctly. I found that movie was demeaning in its treatment of a mentally challenged person too. So there is a history in Ben Stiller work.

C'mon – does anyone really think that a comedy with Ben Stiller and Jack Black could use the word "retard" 17 times and not be offensive? So go ahead and see it. Tell us how enlightened the movie is. Tell us how it promotes better understanding. But please don't compare these people to Lenny Bruce. Now THAT'S funny.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 10:45 AM

"If you're bored by this conversation why are you here?"

Ha! ;-) Because I'm a silly, terminally bored son-of-a-gun with way too much time on his hands, that's why. It gives me something to do. It's the equivalent of killing some time by chatting with the folks at the local diner, only it doesn't cost me anything, and I don't even have to walk out the front door.

Yeah, I find the word "retard" (when it's used as a noun) offensive. So I don't use it. And I don't like people who do.

If, however, I saw a comedian like Lenny Bruce use it deliberately in order to demonstrate through satirical means just how dumb it is to use that word to hurt other people...THAT I would not mind, because a useful point would then be made by that form of satire.

Likewise, I don't mind the specific use of the word "nigger" in one line of the long Bob Dylan song about Hurrican Carter, because the entire song is an impassioned defence of the rights of Black people, and the context in which that world "nigger" is used in the line where it appears is not offensive at all, but appropriate.

Context is everything.

You don't judge by the word itself, you judge by the context.

And THAT interests me...seeing that distinction clearly and understanding...so in truth that's probably the real reason why I'm bothering to post on this specific thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 10:33 AM

"Listen - we'd still be using the word nigger unless folks started standing up and saying that they thought the word was offensive."

Exactly ... and it would probably be used even more if film, literature and other art forms (including comedians like Lenny Bruce)did not point out exactly how offensive it is and the harm it can do.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 10:31 AM

"the shallowness of a Hollywood that preys on the weakness of others. "

I should rephrase that because the word "weakness" does not fit this particular case. Autism, disabilities and other such issues are challenges, not a weakness. I apologize if it came across the wrong way.

"Weakness" is an exploitation of people who are not in a position to defend themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 10:30 AM

If you're bored by this conversation why are you here? Listen - we'd still be using the word nigger unless folks started standing up and saying that they thought the word was offensive. I find the word "retard" to be offensive. I'm sure you feel that there is some sort of context where the word is acceptable. I don't think so. And if you've ever seen a little boy kick your son and call him a retard because he can't talk due to autism - you would feel the same way. Or maybe not.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 10:27 AM

"Ron - Do me a favor. Use the word "retard" as a noun in a sentence in a non-offensive way. Show mw how it can be done."

I cannot, nor did I ever say anyone could - or should. The word - as a noun - is very offensive.   It upsets me greatly to hear people use it as such and I would like to eradicate the use of words like this that are meant to hurt.

It seems as though you are unable to grasp what I, and others are saying. The question becomes, what is the role a film, a book, or music is supposed to play. Is the only intent to be "politically correct" and pacify audiences?   Do we want to go back to the 1950's Eisenhower fueled depicition of family wife - a mother wearing a dress with pearls as she vacuums the living room in a home where bathrooms are never shown and women never become "pregnant" (probably because the husband and wife sleep in separate beds)? No four letter words are ever uttered onscreen? Sex doesn't exist?

Do we want to go back to a world that would ban a Lenny Bruce, Richard Pryor or George Carlin?

As many of you have noted, there are people who use the word "retard" in cruel fashion.   This film is rated "R". Children should not be seeing it. I would be more outraged at a parent that lets their children see such a film. There is indication that this film points out the shallowness of a Hollywood that preys on the weakness of others.   I am not convinced, because I have not seen the full film, that they are being "cruel" in the way they use these words.

As I've said, repeatedly, if they do use this word to make a cheap joke - then they deserve to be boycotted. If you wish to be a lemming and follow whatever partyline you choose, let others think for you and then don't worry about a thing. Perhaps the rest of us would like an opportunity to think for ourselves and not judge with preconceived notions that could very easily be wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 10:21 AM

(shrug) No big deal, I assure you. I'm not particularly upset...just a bit annoyed. I'm bored by this kind of discussion.   I'm just really tired of seeing various self-righteous advocacy groups (from the extreme right wing religious types to the ultra-liberals to the gays to the anti-abortion people to the whatever the heck they are) raising absolute hell outside movie queus, that's all. They should just ignore the damn movie and not go to see it if they don't like it, seems to me.

I'm offended by every dumb action movie that comes out which promotes the Rambo-style flag waving philosophy of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth"...but so what? I don't spend money on those movies. Neither do I picket them, wave a sign around, and raise hell with the people who wish to attend the movie, nor do I try to make them feel guilty about it. I just don't contribute to it by buying a ticket. THAT's the effective way to demonstrate your opinion.

You follow me? I accept that the world is not all like me, they don't all do what I would do or like what I would like, and that's perfectly okay.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 09:58 AM

Little Hawk - as far as I'm concerned you haven't got a dog in this hunt. So why are you so upset? Why should you care if I want to get upset when people use language of this sort to keep people in a box - to minimise their existense?

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 09:53 AM

This is a tempest in a flippin' teapot...but it serves one great purpose. It allows people with a big flippin' CHIP on their shoulders to get REALLY FLIPPIN' WORKED UP AND RIGHTEOUSLY DAMN MAD!!!! about something and blow off some pent-up anger.

Well, hooray. Go to town and enjoy your sense of wrath.

I probably won't even bother to see this movie. The concept doesn't interest me much. On the other hand, I might rent it later on a slow night. If I do, then I'll finally get to see what all the big fuss was about, won't I? If not...shrug...I'm not gonna worry about it much. Not much at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 09:45 AM

Ron - Do me a favor. Use the word "retard" as a noun in a sentence in a non-offensive way. Show mw how it can be done. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 09:45 AM

I am unlikely to see this film and so probably shouldn't comment.

However, I have a ( much loved) nephew with Asperger's and the pejorative insult on this side of the pond was not "retard", but "mong", I assume, a contraction of the term which used to be applied to

Down's kids, "mongol".

Either word should IMO not be in the vocabulary of any decent-thinking person, as IMO vilely insulting, and very, very hurtful.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 12:49 AM

Its a Ben Stiller/Jack Black movie with "retard" jokes in it. Do you really need to know anything else?

The picture of Jack Black in a blond wig should be enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 11:48 PM

"Such as who? The ones I can think did a fantastic job, such as Hoffman, and others mentioned above."

There are people who took exception to some of the names mentioned, including Tom Hanks for Gump, Debra Winger for "Terms of Endearment", and there have been a number of TV actors whose motives were questioned with some of the subject matter of made for TV films.

But as you note, there are actors who do an exceptional job - such as Hoffman, and give people insight through their performance.   Just maybe, there is an insight to be learned from this film.

Kat- you have obviously made up your mind, and that is your right. If you do not find Stiller funny, don't go. There are a number of actors who I detest, and while I probably have missed some important films, that is my right.

You have decided that the langauge is offensive and you feel it is trash - site unseen. You could be right, but you can also be wrong.   Just think "Huck Finn". It would be a shame to give in to book burners and lose a classic like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 11:35 PM

It is also based on actors who take on roles of handicapped as a ploy to save failing careers and gain some attention. Think of all those actors who take rolls as someone with an incurable disease, handicap, or other challenge.

Such as who? The ones I can think did a fantastic job, such as Hoffman, and others mentioned above.

Rapaire, that's the best Spawlike posting I've seen in years!**bg**

I heard an interview of Stiller on NPR and cannot say I was impressed, but I've also never found him particularly funny. I have no desire to waste time or money on any movie which uses such language...why feed my subconscious such trash and why support the trash-making?

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 11:22 PM

"That was based on a true autistic person (forget his name)"

I have seen documentaries of the real guy.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 11:13 PM

"Why would Dustin Hoffman apologize for Rain Man. He was not making fun of anyone."

NOW YOU GET IT!!!!!!!   The question is - what is Stiller doing? You say you readng that he is making fun of autitic, but there are others who say that is just not true. Depending on who you read, he may be doing exactly the same thing as the others.

Let's not forget Forest Gump!!!!


"In fact the character he is portraying, the one called "retard" 16 times, is based on Sly Stallone/Bruce Willis type action hero actors. "

Partially. It is also based on actors who take on roles of handicapped as a ploy to save failing careers and gain some attention. Think of all those actors who take rolls as someone with an incurable disease, handicap, or other challenge. If you watched the clip, the basis of the "16" times appears to come from a scene where Stiller and Downey characters are discussing roles they played. The character that Stiller played was in a movie where he played a challenged individual and the movie was a bomb and he received bad reviews. The character is questiong that he went "full retard" - which, in the clip I saw, was making fun of actors who are so shallow that they do not feel anything for the character they play but only take such roles to get in the spotlight. These are the unthinking and uncaring actors who show up at charity events just to get facetime with the camera and care nothing about the event.

Stiller and the film are getting some acclaim.
New York Times:
http://movies.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/movies/13trop.html?th&#

USA Today
http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/reviews/2008-08-12-tropic-thunder_N.htm?csp=34

Roger Ebert
http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080811/REVIEWS/593221592

Kurt Loder
http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1592689/20080813/story.jhtml?rsspartner=rssYahooNewscrawler

Cinecon
http://www.cinecon.com/review.php?id=tropic-thunder

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 10:51 PM

Ron

The guy from the special Olympics in Rhode Island said in the TV piece I linked to that he had counted the word "retarded" being used 16 times in the film. I am sure that he either saw the film or he read what he knows to be an accurate transcript or else he would have had nothing to count. I have seen the trailer for the film. I know the premise. Believe me Stiller will be receiving no acclaim for the portrayal of the disabled. In fact the character he is portraying, the one called "retard" 16 times, is based on Sly Stallone/Bruce Willis type action hero actors.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: olddude
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 10:43 PM

If there are different reviews I would love to see them. All I see is what is consistent with this post but if there are others it would be good to see. Why would Dustin Hoffman apologize for Rain Man. He was not making fun of anyone. That was based on a true autistic person (forget his name) it pointed out very much how the nature of autism works. Jack the 7 year old that I help his family out in every way is exactly like that. A genius in reading and music but with the same autistic problems including the violence that goes with it. It is the nature of the disease. In all of the films above that you mentioned noone was using autism as the R laugh that I am reading Stiller is doing ... If you read up on autism you will find that rain man is quite accurate. In regard to the positive reviews I can't find any so please share because to be fair if there is another side we should know it

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 10:27 PM

"Are you some sort of agent for this film saying that we should all pay the 8 dollars before we can say anything?"

Jack, you know very well that I am not saying that. I am very surprised at you - of all people - who can find a conspiracy in every news story, have failed to question and blindly follow. Then again, perhaps I am not surprised.

I do believe the guy from the Rhode Island Special Olympics is upset and so are the Shrivers, but if you read the article - they did not claim to see the film.

But perhaps you are right. In fact, perhaps we should also have Dustin Hoffman return his Oscar for "Rain Man". I think Jack Nicholson and the cast of "Cuckoo's Nest" should also issue an apology. Maybe the late Anne Bancroft and Patty Duke should have separated themselves from "The Miracle Worker".   What is up with Daniel Day Lewis and that kid from "Elephant Man"? What were they thinking?

Now, I am not claiming that "Tropic Thunder" is should be mentioned in the same sentence with any of those classic films, but I would like more information before I come to judgement.   Stiller and crew could deserve a public tar and feather for all I know, but in addition to press releases from the Shrivers, I am also reading reviews that have a completely different take.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 09:57 PM

Ron,

Are you some sort of agent for this film saying that we should all pay the 8 dollars before we can say anything?

I happen to believe the guy from the Rhode Island Special Olympics representitive and the Shrivers who claim to have seen it and who counted Stiller's character being called a retard 16 times. You don't have to get wet to talk about the rain my friend. Get off your high horse.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 09:49 PM

________brokedickmamalucca________

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 09:17 PM

"Nothing ignorant about hurting people and sick kids ... what crap"

Old dude- please try to pay attention. I agree with you, hurting people and sick kids is wrong.   

Here is the tough part that people just aren't grasping - NO ONE who has commented here has seen the film. You are simply talking out of your ass when you state that it was said "as an insult". You just do not know in what context it was said.   Was the person or person using the phrase being portrayed as vile? I would hope so. YOU just don't know, so when everyone make claims without having seen the film, you are following in the paths of the bookburners who never stopped to read the book.

I have not seen the film, and if the term was used to get a laugh, then it is very wrong and deserves to be boycotted.   However, I have yet to hear someone who has seen the film make the claim. I just hear a lot of blind followers who get sucked in by the media, many of the same people who always complain about how the media uses people.   I hate to tell you to look in the mirror, but you aren't thinking for yourself!

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 09:03 PM

I think this piece sums up the controversy pretty well.

MSNBC.com piece.

In the movie Stiller's character is referred to as a "retard" 16 times, apparently as a pejorative. certainly as an insult. I think its cheap and dirty and thoughtless, typical of the writing of Ben Stiller. he's OK doing other people's stuff, but his writing is awful.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: olddude
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 08:38 PM

Nothing ignorant about hurting people and sick kids ... what crap
the only think ignorant here is thinking it isn't . Like I said anyone can see anything they want but don't tell me it is ok cause it isn't. Huck Finn, you know what, that N term was acceptable in that timeframe it isn't now and it is a term that if someone used around me they would wish they had not likewise the term retard. But to get a laugh you have to use a term that is so hard for many people ahows a lack of comedy skills. You know what, people with autistic kids go to movies to get away from it. Try living with it then tell me it is ok. So those people go to a comedy just to have it thrown in their face for a laugh right. Middle finger as Bruce says pick the hand you want. lets get a laugh out of calling a sick kid a retard huh .. .yea right ... Call it as you see but so will I. It is trying to justify a laugh for any excuse but if you experienced it you would think different.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 08:26 PM

Interestingly enough, in Australia, and I suspect it comes from our British origins, we have a massive range of expressions, which are quite commonly used to refer to certain people in a way that is not intended (usually, although some people seem to intend nastiness) to be anything other than a sort of PC.

A few sandwiches short of a picnic
Not playing with a full deck (of cards)

and so many more...

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 07:59 PM

Well said Little Hawk!


As Spaw said, context is everything - which is probably why Spaw can get away with calling people "limpdick jackass" and other inflammatory terms. We do not judge Spaw by choice of words, only by context.

However, Spaw also said "Listen to what you hear everyday and call the people who use those terms on it then." Agreed! Perhaps some of the people who are running around with pitchforks and torches will stop and think that perhaps Stiller is doing exactly that.

These are probably the same people who burned Beatle albums, Catcher in the Rye and Huck Finn - simply out of ignorance to take the time to understand the context.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 07:27 PM

I find Ben Stiller moderately funny at times, but not memorably funny. I very much doubt that he intended anything hurtful in this movie.

As Spaw said, context is everything when dealing with a word like "retarded" (which was once a perfectly normal word not intended to insult anyone, but rather to describe a condition...but some people then coined the derogatory schoolyard insult "REE-tard" for their own unpleasant purposes...and we see a general reaction to that now in society).

It think it is best that people look into the context and the intention before they decide they have been insulted by a mere word. Groups of people loudly protesting that movie have decided to be insulted by the word itself, period, seems to me. If so, they may be missing the boat.

I'm neither defending the movie nor attacking it. I have no opinion on it at this point.

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 06:38 PM

If it's used to hurt someone, it's not funny. My guess is that people see the movie, think the word's funny and use it, and somebody who's been called that will hear it and feel hurt.

I don't give a rat's ass about people's offended sensibilities. I care plenty about not hurting folks though. I suspect there isn't anyone alive who hasn't been made fun of at some point. It causes reactions from embarrassment to downright terror, and I've felt the extreme myself. I can't imagine what it must be like to deal with that daily. I won't use the word. Poking fun at people who DO use it isn't bad, and Little Hawk's chronicles of Shane are pretty good.

I also won't see the movie. I really don't think Ben Stiller's funny.

(Spaw, congrats on Tris's upgrade!)

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 06:28 PM

Yeah Rap.......that's it........short and sweet and to the point! That's what I meant to say

........................................fuckin' limpdick jackass.............................................................

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Retard - The 'R' word
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 06:24 PM

By the way, I don't plan to see the movie. Actually, I just heard about it today in an NPR story. Apparently there's some racist overtones as well.