BS: Tyranny?

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST,spArrownoid
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 10:27 AM

yeah yeah yeah

'Useful idiots' was a term Lenin used to describe the masses. They weren't good for anything, in his mind, except to be herded around to do the bidding of the government. For what the explanation is worth.

And paranoia isn't necessarily severe. There are degrees. And if you can watch people jump out of hundred floor windows and then read about NORAD interceptors being held on the ground, you don't even have the amount of paranoia requisite for survival.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 12:11 AM

SwallowNoid, you agree you are paranoid? Which one of these definitions fits?

paranoia
        Syllables:                  par-a-noi-a

        Part of Speech                 noun
         Pronunciation                 pae rE noy E
         Definition        1.        a severe mental disorder marked by persistent and very exaggerated delusions of being grand or important, or of being persecuted by others.
         Definition        2.        unrealistic suspicion and mistrust of others.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 11:36 PM

Well, I guess you have to ask Patrick Henry why he bothered too, Raedwulf. Why not just give up or sell out to the powers that be? You see, it all depends on what you think life is actually about, doesn't it?

And on what you think is actually going on, of course...which is a matter of opinion. There is a slavering columnist for the Toronto Sun who just today referred to all the antiwar protestors as "Useful Idiots" (useful to Saddam, and to evil in general, I suppose...in his opinion.) That's his reality. He can't wait for the big corporate machine to uselessly kill another 100,000 Iraquis. I think he's a useful idiot for a system that is more evil than he can imagine, and that will flush him down the toilet as soon as he's no longer valuable to them.

We've all got our own versions of reality to deal with. You've stated yours and spArrownoid has stated his...quite clearly. I don't think he has any further need to explain why he's doing what he's doing, given what he believes.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 11:31 PM

Raedwulf --

I think maybe this thread won't die because you folks view me as a bug to be prodded and studied. That's fine. A woman on the recipe exchange asked me for my 'fruit cake' recipe today. So be it. Or maybe y'all know I'm onto something here and are as concerned as I am.

As far as buying guns...you bet. We should all buy as many as we can afford. That's a stronger message than a letter to the editor. And the government DOESN'T have more guns and bodies, etc. WE are the government. The problem is there are a handful of corrupt execs at the top, and everyone below them is compartmentalized. The underlings work on a 'need to know' basis. Well, that is all about to change, because of the internet.

And what's a person to do? I circulate copies of a tape called '911 - The Road to Tyranny'. Two-hour overview of the New World Order and it's recent atrocities. I push the tape on cops and military. And they can NEVER view their roles the same after they watch it. And once they SEE evidence that their own commanders murdered at the Pentagon and the WTC...just WHOSE side are they going to be on? So there is no fixed 'army' in this war. I think a lot of trained soldiers will change sides and lots of material will quickly change hands or be rendered useless if hostilities ever break out in America.

And yeah, I seek out bulletin boards to post on. The more unconnected to politics the better, because political people seem to have a VERY tough time breaking their 'conservative versus liberal' mindset. I've discovered most 'liberals' and 'conservatives' are just searching for 'proof' to support their beliefs, and what I'm talking about is too far away from their familiar little worlds to accept.

As far as paranoia labels...sure, I'm paranoid. So what. I don't live in fear, though. If things are as bad as I say, what have I got to lose by trying to alert people? Are they going to call me NAMES before they shoot me? And if I'm imagining things, at least I'm experiencing an interesting psychosis. But you know I'm not imagining this. The globalists blew up the restaurant in Bali to get the Aussies onboard, blew up the French oil tanker off Yemen a few months ago when France threatened to hold back on Iraq, and the U.S. issued a 'terrorist alert' to Americans using Turkish airports a couple months ago when that country balked at U.S. demands. After the alert was issued, the Turkish govt. got in goose-step and the terrorist alert mysteriously disappeared. It is SO obvious who the real terrorists in this are....

Little Hawk --

Yeah, the last Presidential election was a coup de etat. When the winner was 'appointed', thousands of U.S. military were assigned to Washington D.C. to act as 'stand-ins' lining the motorcade route to the inauguration. They stood in their places during the rehearsal the day before, then the day of the inauguration they were given extended leave and 'encouraged' to return to the spots where they had been standing during the dry run. That was an absolute, textbook military coup we saw on inauguration day.

And yes, I think one more terrorist attack will create great changes in the U.S., but we'll see what happens when they start shooting grandmas at checkpoints. I think they'll have to nuke us to subdue us, and I'd like to think that even after that we'd refuse to give up fighting. I certainly don't want to live without my Constitutional rights. They can have my guns one bullet at a time.

And the same folks who own the U.N. DO own the U.S. now. The bin Laden family are billionaires, like the Bushes, and look at the statement by Ossama bin Laden below:

"I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in -- and the West in general -- into an unbearable hell and a choking life."

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/01/31/gen.binladen.interview/

That's not a threat from a foe...it's a statement of what is going to happen uttered by one of the insiders. One of the CEO's. The bin Ladens vacation with the Bushes and are in business with the Bushes. Ossama got a little tipsy with his stardom at the moment and had to rub our faces in it.

I never read 'Last Waltz of the Tyrants', but sure, the elite seem to be soulless. Insane, too. Some people believe there's method to their madness, though. The tens of thousands of 'genetic experiments' being funded by governments now, for example. I heard on the radio where Queen Elizabeth visited a McDonald's a while back but didn't eat anything. Hell no she didn't eat. The crap they're splicing into our corn and wheat and rice is meant to be absorbed by our bodies and genetically modify us on a cellular level. Someday our immune systems will be so out-of-whack that we won't be able to process enzymes or proteins or something...they don't care WHAT goes wrong just as long as we DIE. So the ruling elite are always sucking on bottled water and carrying their food around. Just thought I'd throw that in. Someone should've shoved a french fry in the Queen's mouth. Maybe she would have gone hysterical and admitted the whole plan.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 09:02 PM

That's a clever name for a band. It would suit veteran country musicians better, though, than your typical folkies. :-)

Carol - Wonderfully incisive point about the functioning of the Democratic and Republican parties, playing the public like an out-of-tune violin. It's the old "good cop - bad cop" routine, a routine also favored by police interrogators. The Democrats pretend to be touchy-feely Liberal nice guys defending your civil rights, the Republicans pretend to be God-loving patriotic tough guys defending America from aggression and subversion, and either way the great unspoken secret agenda moves forward...election after phony election. Whichever way the public looks ready to swing, the appropriate puppets are provided to mollify them...but your last presidential election was just a tad...unusual. A coup, I would call it.

All you need now is one more officially-labelled "terrorist" attack on the heartland, and you can kiss goodbye to even the pretense of democracy in the USA. And to think that they accused Bin Laden of attacking democracy! If he was consciously doing so, they couldn't have found it more convenient to the greater grand design.

SpArrownoid, I think that the same guys own the U.N. as do the US government and most other major governments, so the U.N. is just a handy instrument to advance their policy. Would you agree? I saw a book about this once, written in the 80's. It was called "Last Waltz of the Tyrants", and it predicted their worldwide fall. I hope it was right about that. The essential point in the book was that the people at the top had become basically souless, having arrived at an understanding of life that was based entirely on personal financial gain and the amassing of personal power by any means that worked. They justified it by assuming that they were being "realistic", if they bothered to justify it at all.

That is a policy which could be termed not just immoral, but completely outside even any structure or understanding of morality...an insane policy, in other words. Such things are easily accomplished when most people become just little cogs in huge organizations, and the left hand doesn't know or care what the right hand is doing. You see that all the time in our society. You couldn't get away with that kind of nonsense in a small Indian tribe or a frontier community where everyone knew everyone else personally, and was therefore accountable for his or her actions. The US Constitution arose out of that open, frontier mentality, and it owed much to the social/political traditions of Native America, which had revolutionized European social philosophy since around 1500, and played a big part in ending entrenched European ideas about monarchy and class.

Nowadays class means only one thing...money. If you've got billions, you are in the ruling class. If you've got millions, you're aspiring toward being in the ruling class, and can find the illusion of safety by living in some ritzy "gated community" and abusing your Filipina or Mexicana maid on weekends.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 08:45 PM

I've noted, with a certain amount of amusement, that this thread jus' plain refuses to die... I've dropped back in after a week & more of watching the post count go up & seeing "BS: Tyranny" still keep appearing in the list...

Well, Guest has acquired some sort of handle & is starting to sound vaguely sane & civilized, as opposed to a rabid gun-nut 'nutball' (to borrow one of Bobert's terms...). Apart of from that, there seems to be no difference from when I last dropped by.

The real question is what *exactly* do you expect anyone to do?

Buy more guns?

Do you know anything about basic military doctrine? Concentration of force? The guvmint's always got more guns than you. And if it actually thinks you're worth wasting effort on, it's got more bodies (& guns) than you can hope to cope with. Guns are probably a bad idea then...

Write to your senator?

Well, 1) He'll probably think you're a... what was the word again... Ah! 'Nutball', that was it... Or 2) if he doesn't, congratulations, you just got yourself on the guvmint shit-list. Either way, no-one thinks your opinion actually matters.

So what do you achieve by trolling round BB's trying to 'alert' everyone to the danger they're in?

Let's be rational here, Guest Paranoid, who do you think is actually going to listen to you? Why do you bother? If you're wrong, well, you're just the nut that 99.9% of people probably already think you are. If you're right... Well, we're all already stuffed, aren't we? Because there's not a hope in hell (actually, there's probably more chance that Dubya will stick his hand up & say "It's a fair cop, I fixed dem elections, guv") that anyone with more than a couple of brain cells to rub together is going to believe you.

And if you *are* right, you're nothing more than a walking corpse, whatever you might trumpet about your own personal 'freedom'. Bugger your guns, sunshine, *if* you are right (& I'm landing on Mars next week...) the guvmint has a gun trained on you 24 hours a day. If there's the slightest possibility that you're vaguely connected to reality, you're not simply dead - you never existed...

I'm *definitely* with Don on this one!

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST,spArrownoid
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 07:18 PM

Good article. Eerie...I think I've posted some of the same thoughts regarding America worded almost the same way. The 'junta', etc. We look so, so bad in the eyes of the world, and it's just because the U.N. wants control of the oil resources in Iraq. Sure the Bushes and Cheney are oil people, but that's part of the big deception...the world can understand GREED on the part of the U.S. leaders, but this oil isn't going to the U.S. It's going to the U.N. And then the Central Asian oil will be shipped to China so their industry can grow. It won't mean squat to the price of gasoline in America. This is a military action meant to strengthen the U.N., and the U.S. 'oil men' are just being offered up as the simplistic explanation.

And Le Carre is right about diversions. There is a 'shock of the week' to take our minds off our appointed president (in the world's leading 'democracy'), to take our minds off the ENORMOUS corporate scandals going unpunished, destruction of the wall separating church and state, etc. And...above all...September 11. A thousand smoking guns are on the ground, but no one will pursue them more than one news cycle. Hitler burned the Reichstag to unify the people behind him, and the same thing happened here. Only, the evidence is all around Sept. 11. It was too big an operation...too many loose ends.

And Carol C. is right about the parties playing off against each other in order to advance things. But now, I think they're starting to abandon that pretense. The national leaders actually think the game is over. They think they won't have to worry about re-elections anymore and they'll be the overlords of their little states, so why go through the motions anymore? I mean, when conservatives have Federalized schools, religion and local law in the past 2 years, what's left for the Democrats to do? They're not even TRYING to pretend there's a difference between their totalitarian agendas anymore.

Oh, and on the music...The Bad Livers. Austin-based group. Three guys...banjo, washtub base and mandolin the times I've seen them. Their CDs are...different. Folksy in a hallucinatory sort of way. Remind me of a group called the Horseflies, but not as polished as the Horseflies, in my opinion, but it's incredible music. Thrash banjo I think the liner notes call it...and lots of studio filtering and tweaking...a real different experience. The Bad Livers.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 05:56 PM

The respected ex-MI6 spy-thriller author, John Le Carré, has some rather strong remarks about the bamboozle that has been sold by the current Madministration to the great American public:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,482-543296,00.html,

Enjoy!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 05:25 PM

I think I've figured out (in my mind, you all may have already figured this one out), another reason for having two parties besides just to keep the voters in the US thinking we actually have a voice in how our government does things.

I think that the string pullers behind both parties are essentially the same people (nothing new there), and that they like having Democratic and Republican presidents ahd congresses, alternately.

Here's why:

Some of the issues that are important to them can only be addressed by one party or the other, but not both.

Here's an possible example just for the sake of this discussion: war and gun control. Anti-war, pro-gun control voters tend to be Democrats. Pro-war, anti-gun control voters tend to be Republicans. Let's say the string pullers want both gun control, and carte blanche to wage war. They need Republicans in office to get the war machine rolling, and then, once they get that going, they get Democrats in office to try to get gun legislation passed.

A good example of this in recent history is Clinton and welfare reform. No Republican could accomplish what he did with that, because it would have created to big a backlash against the Republican party. But Clinton was able to get Democrats to swallow it because most of them would rather have a Democrat who cut welfare than a Republican of any stripe.

But Clinton couldn't wage war on a large scale for the reasons the Republicans could; oil, and world domination.

I'm looking at Joe Leiberman as the next Democrat the string pullers will be backing. If my theory is true, he's got everything they want. He's hungry for war with Iraq, and he supports gun control.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 04:13 PM

I know what you mean, sparrownoid. :-) I quit watching TV about 15 years ago. TV is mostly empty distraction and totally false propaganda. The Internet is an extraordinary phenomenon, because it allows real people to communicate openly with other real people all over the world. This is a tremendous opportunity for free-minded people to maintain their freedom, and it's the Achille's heel of the great, souless corporate system that is taking over the World all around us. We'll see how long it stays that way.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 03:53 PM

I'm surprised I was able to get back here. I get booted off a lot of forums.

Yes, I like folk music. Like all kinds (even opera sometimes). I was trying to find some public domain info on 'Old Joe Clark' when I stumbled across this forum. That's how I come across most forums...when I'm not expecting them. And if you think Y'ALL are distressed by the things I post, imagine how the grannies on the recipe exchange feel.

Folk music...let's see...Astral Weeks, Gordon Lightfoot...but that's a bit modern. Tupelo Honey...I've listened to that a hundred times I bet. I like Texas music, which includes an incredible range from blues to jazz to country-western...conjunto, German polka. Woody Guthrie spent a lot of time in Texas. Honky Tonk music is great. Webb Pierce, Lefty Frizzell. Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys...decades ahead of their time...incredible musicians. I've given up TV because it's just too much wasted down-time, but I play music sometimes when I'm browsing the internet.

TV...it's a BIG mis-information machine right now, folks. Some of those people reporting KNOW they're lying to us...they are reporters and have checked their facts and sources, but then their stories get edited. Like, what happened to Iraq's 12,000 page inventory of weapons? They issued two copies for the U.N. Security Council, then the United States swooped in and seized both copies. Later, the sanitized report was released...only 3,000 pages long. That's NINE THOUSAND PAGES which outlined how the Bush and Baker families and hundreds of American and European businesses sold Hussein weapons. Someone told me that isn't even mentioned on the evening news.

The film I was talking about earlier...how it is canned and then saved for later use...during the Gulf War we were shown film of dead people in northern Iraq. Gassed by Hussein. Well, that footage was taken TEN YEARS BEFORE, just after Bush # 1 approved the sale of that gas by the Baker family to Hussein. But the footage was saved for ten years and then presented as a 'new atrocity' when Bush needed it.

And on top of TVs function to misinform and misdirect, I've begun to wonder about it's subliminal purposes. It seems every program synopsis I read now has someone torturing someone else. We're being conditioned to view torture as acceptable, and that's bogus. Torture is NOT acceptable, but if you see cops torturing night after night after night on TV, you'll come to think it's just the way things are.

During the 1960's, a lot of people thought Gilligans Island was real. The network running the show got dozens of calls and letters per week begging them to please rescue those poor people. Serious letters. And that was just a goof. But you can bet Army psy-ops made some notes on the phenomenon. And today, with the ADDITION of subliminal messages and cues on top of scenes of torture, I suspect Americans are being taught to accept their own torture.

So, I think you see my dilemma. Sure I want to go back to the way things were, but I can't. I've learned too much recently. And if I seem overly enthusiastic about this stuff, just go into a sports bar at playoff time and look at the incredible amount of energy being flushed down the urinal. Sad. Really sad. One terrorist act away from martial law and concentration camps, and people won't even adjust their lives just a little bit to preserve their way of life.

Sorry I rambled. On to the grannies now.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 01:37 PM

Just a point of curiosity, GUEST. Are you a folk musician or folk music enthusiast at all? Or do you just search the web for sites where you can express your concerns?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 01:31 PM

http://www.subliminal.org/mugbook/spooks/wackenhut.html

One of my favorite odd little web pages. The Bushes really ARE heavily invested in the American Prison system. Mostly through stock in Wackenhut.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 01:22 PM

Just practicing freedom of speech. A right which those charged to protect are trying to take away. I used to write letters to my congressman and Senators, etc...and an occasional letter to the editor. But all branches of our government have now quit reading mail (due to the anthrax scare and 'high volumes of correspondence'), and most eidtors are now afraid to criticize the new fascist government (They're controlled by Rupert Murdoch or Sumner Redstone or some other corporate giant benefitting from the Bush Company's turnover of America to the corporations, so they -- the editors -- can't run letters critical of the new world order or they'll lose their jobs). So my letters no longer get printed.

And since the media in America has been locked down, that leaves online communication and word of mouth. I utilize both. Online I now email editorial writers who might reach thousands at a time. I send them my thoughts when I think appropriate and hope they pick up the idea and run with it. The rest I 'spew' on forums. Y'all are smart people, and if just ten of you did a followup search on one of the horrific situations I've described, then you're probably pretty upset. Anyway, I do this on other forums, too, and I hope people will check into some of the things I say.

I realized on Sept. 11, when Fox news was screaming 'Afghanistan' before the towers even fell that they were reading from a script. In the year and a half since, the connections I've discovered while researching that event and others has been revelatory. Our material world of appearances is not what it seems. I've listened to old men all my life say there's not a 'dimes worth of difference' between the Democrats and the Republicans (Will Rogers quote, I think), but they could never really explain what they meant. Well, now I KNOW why there's not any difference. All effort on the part of the two major political parties in the twentieth century was towards consolidation. First, consolidate private property into socialistic programs under the 'New Deal', then privatize and turn over that government property to corporations, which is happening now at an accelerated rate. End result is the same...dictatorial, tyrannical govt. Communism or Fascism. Two-headed snake. That's what I've learned in the past year and a half.

And now there is a massive assault against our Constitution in progress. The death blow. They terrified America with Sept. 11, and now, Americans are ready to run into the arms of the governmental terrorists after another 'attack'. Run into the arms of the very terrorists themselves. Our CIA created Saddam Hussein and bin Laden and the Taliban and the Viet Cong and Mao Tse Tung...and it HAS to stop sometime. And we won't get another chance to stop it after the Bush Company releases smallpox. They already have footage of kids having fun at army bases...footage of kids from a school in Maryland going to class at a nearby army base when the CIA sniper was running around...footage in the can and waiting to be shown to you on TV when the smallpox outbreak comes. You'll be shown that FEMA camps are goooood. They'll use the kid footage the way they used gun footage to disarm Australia...announce a gun collection day, where cash will be paid, then film people in line waiting to turn in guns. Show the guns being crushed in compactors. Wait 3 years, then announce a MANDATORY gun turn-in, and show the same footage so you think your neighbors are all complying. Makes YOU afraid not to join the line.

That's the kind of stuff I've learned since Sept. 11, and it steams me to no end. So I decided to forego my TV time and now, when I used to watch TV, I read and post on the internet. No football playoffs for me this year. No more until America is rid of the Un-American powers that are controlling our government. It's my duty to fight all enemies foreign and domestic. This seems to be the most effective way to do it.

By the way, the URL below is for a resolution you cna present to your local city council. Hundreds of American cites and towns have now passed similar resolutions against the USA PATRIOT Act. It simply states that your town will not go along with the unconstitutional aspects of the PATRIOT Act and the Homeland Security Act. Please look at it...it outlines some good points about the rights we lost under that legislation:

http://www.infowars.com/resolution_resist_tyranny.html

And now I'll be cut off for a day...your webmaster is doing what he can to keep this unpleasant stuff from you, and that's fine. This IS supposed to be a music forum. I have to keep a list of which forums I'm barred from and how often they have to reset so I can post again.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 10:01 PM

Why are you spewing this on a folk music forum? Just curious. Seems to me there are a lot more congenial places on the web for this kinda stuff. Note carefully that I'm not telling you to go away or anything (not my place to do so). Just asking a question: why here?

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 01:16 PM

Sounds like a coward's way out. Don't you WANT to be part of history? Wouldn't it be GREAT to rescue the Constitution from destruction? We are FORTUNATE to have this chance. The enemies of the Constitution...so well-hidden over the past century...are panicking right now because the evidence of their crimes is being disseminated across the internet. They are panicking, and they are making mistakes. If just ten percent of Americans laid aside the football and the music and the sit-coms for a while and demanded an OPEN INVESTIGATION of Sept. 11, the world crime syndicate running our country would be exposed. And if it's not exposed, you will die in a concentration camp and the history books will be re-written to explain why you deserved death in a cloud of cyanide because you were an enemy of the 'Homeland', or an 'enemy combatant', or an 'Arab', or a 'Christian', or a 'militia' or an 'SUV owner' or a 'home schooler', etc. etc. etc. The perpetual war is against YOU, unless you take steps to stop it now.

http://www.infowars.com/newimages/Banners/text_911.gif

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 08:38 AM

relief is just a swallow away.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 03 - 05:08 PM

"secret operations aimed at 'stimulating reactions' among terrorists and states possessing weapons of mass destruction -- that is, for instance, prodding terrorist cells into action and exposing themselves to 'quick-response' attacks by U.S. forces."

As the article indicates, that is a direct quote from an internal pentagon briefing. Hard news or editorial, you don't use direct quotes unless you can back it up, especially when it comes to the murdering Bush family crime syndicate. Given enough time, we could locate the release on the internet, since the government's not hiding any of this tyranny. That was just the first article I found concerning P2OG on google. Look at the wording...it is not debatable. Our government's policy is now one of 'stimulating reactions' among terrorists. Provocation...which in itself is terrorism. And Americans are being used like bait in the process. That is unconstitutional (violates your right to life), and Rumsfeld should be tried and executed for it. He chose to take the oath to protect the constitution, and now he's issuing directives which will lead to the deaths of Americans. He's a traitor.

As for you Mr. Firth, I should be more respectful of your age, but you shouldn't discount what I have to say. I listened to Mel Gibson's dad last night. 84 years old. He said he began investigating the New World Order in 1947, after he returned from WW2 and then watched us give the world to the Soviet Union. And he began researching and by 1968 he won the national championship (or either Jeopardy or Concentration) and made enough money to relocate his family to Australia. 11 kids, and he didn't want any of them dying for Exxon and Brown and Root. And like I said, he's 84 and has been through lots of crises, like you have, and why would I listen to him and not to you? Sorry if I offended you. I have these mood swings between anger and rage lately the deeper I dig into how we're being manipulated.

I'm sure you do a lot of reading on the internet, but what I've read in the last year and a half has shown me that all the corruption and suppression of liberty going on around the world is connected. Septemer 11 is connected to the price of Wackenhut stock is connected to child disappearances in Bosnia is connected to DynCorp being convicted of sex-slave operations is connected to Marvin Bush handling security at the airports where the hijackers took off from is connected to GWBush's grandaddy doing buisness with Hitler is connected to GW's father heading the CIA and killing millions in setting up a Cocaine Cartel so he could create a 'war on drugs' is connected to none of the Bush associates going to prison for Enron and all the other ripoffs is connected to our 401k's being fair game just like the S&Ls were, etc. It's all tied together, and all the stories lead to a couple hundred crime organizations which are now hiding behind the shield of the U.N. The more I read the more obvious it becomes to me, so I sometimes wonder why others don't see it so I rub peoples' faces in the obviousness of it all. If they choose to continue hiding from the truth...at least I tried. The thought of Americans willing to give up the Constitution without a thought makes me want to puke. And now, according to some survey I heard about today, 1 out of 2 Americans think it was Iraq behind Sept. 11. The Bush people have been trying to make that connection, and it looks like they actually have. I mean, stupidity like that makes me want to weep. The world was never shown proof of Afghanistan's involvement, and we slaughtered that country so the opium crop could be replanted and Cheney could get the pipeline construction going again, and now Americans believe we are going to war with Iraq because Hussein was behind Sept. 11. I think my frustration is understandable.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 17 Jan 03 - 01:53 PM

I looked up http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/2002/11/000092.html. It's about an article about a plan. So? All sorts of wacky things get thought about and discussed in plans. And one really needs to consider the source of anything one reads. Especially on the web. Internet journalism is not exactly notorious for reliability - even less so than print & broadcast. Anyone, after all, with a computer, a modem, and a few bucks a month can be Editor-in-Chief of an "Alternate Journalism" Webzine.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jan 03 - 12:42 PM

I'm fully aware of the real issues, GUEST. I can read, I can listen, and I can cruise the internet as well as anyone else. But I can also think. You start with a few facts (a fair amount of what you say is true), and the conclusions you draw from those facts, plus a lot of stuff you pull out of thin air, make things look far worse than they really are. God knows, they are bad enough as is. I am reminded of the excesses of some of the more vocal activists during the Sixties. Things were a mess, but the gross exaggerations of these people made the rest of the activists look like a bunch of asses, so many folks just didn't pay attention to anything activists said, considering them all a bunch of raving, wild-eyed kooks. Barfing out this rampant paranoia is not helping.

Also, I think you get your rocks off by repeatedly telling other people how stupid and ignorant you think they are compared to your own worldly wisdom. I'm older than dirt, I've been through a lot of crises, and I've met your kind before.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST,Mrs. Earbore
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 05:50 PM

Wackenhut is a mere subsidiary of of the corporate giant Group4 Falck built and controlled by the nasty Canadians. I think they should be locked in concentration camps. They are obviously trying to take over the United States. Otherwise why would they have cavity searched my poor little Yorkies at the Bluewater Bridge last summer on our way to the summer place? The Canadians are the real perpetrators of world corporate domination.
Mrs. Audley Earbore, III

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 05:38 PM

The Proactive, Preemptive Operations Group (P2OG) -- as described in an internal briefing drafted this summer to guide other Pentagon agencies -- would carrry out "secret operations aimed at 'stimulating reactions' among terrorists and states possessing weapons of mass destruction -- that is, for instance, prodding terrorist cells into action and exposing themselves to 'quick-response' attacks by U.S. forces."

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/2002/11/000092.html

I doubt you'd have the guts to look this up. Rumsfeld considers your and your family bait.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 05:31 PM

The 'real' issue is that an unelected president has taken us from record surpluses to near-record debt and brought us to the brink of WW3 and not allowed an investigation of Sept 11 and DOES BUSINESS WITH THE BIN LADEN FAMILY. His family owns major shares in Wackenhut Security (which is on a prison-building spree) while he takes away your rights and criminalizes everything. His representatives have SAID he will provoke the terrorists to attack us (look up Rumsfeld's P2OG statement), which INSURES nuclear war. You won't know what the 'real' issues are even when Paki mercenaries are standing in your living room debating whether to kill or let you make their lunch first. Grow up. You have the largest library in the world at your fingertips, and you still know nothing about the real world. It has been the job of all Presidents since FDR to let the world crime syndicate have their way with the U.S. (either by aiding the globalists or at least staying out of their way). We've been treated kindly because we've been a safe haven for money, and that's the ONLY reason we haven't experienced third-world type calamities. But now all that's over. They don't need to park their money in the U.S. anymore. It's now going to China. This is it. The endgame for America. The multi-layered legislation to legally exterminate you is in place, and the concentration camps are built. And now our troops are being shipped out of the country while our government PROMISES us there will be another terrorist attack 'not if, but when'.

Now, what were you saying about 'real' issues?

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 03:23 PM

The problem with this kind of malarkey (apart from the fact that it is malarkey) is that it distracts people's attention from the real issues.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 02:45 PM

The Masons, the Illuminati, the Rosicrucians.... the NWO. "Them."

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 02:42 PM

I forgot to pose this question last post, but
Exactly Who Is Dubya's Army? Our brothers and sisters? Sons and daughters? Do you know where I'm going with this? Who will be the ones to try to bring us down, in your opinion spArrow? I'm interested in hearing that.
Peace, Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 02:25 PM

But I have no reason to think that even 1% of what you say is true. I have no reason to think the "Bushes and Clintons" are ven 1% as bad as you say. I have no reason to think that you're anything but a loony. If you want me (or anyone else) to think otherwise, you'll need to rethink your approach. I know, you don't really care if anyone believes you, you're just spreading the word and the rest of us can believe or be damned, but if that were really true, you wouldn't keep beating your drum, would you? You'd move on to someplace where you were appreciated.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: DougR
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 02:19 PM

Rustic Rebel: Excellent suggestion! "Chicken Little" it is!

Kim C: Do you mean that in 1933 you didn't protest losing all those rights? Oh that's right, you weren't even the figment of anybody's imagination in 1933. :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 02:18 PM

You're right about attribution of sources. I'll try to do better. But if even one percent of what I present is on-target, then we're in a lot of trouble. The tyranny which has just been opened up full-throttle is beyond description in it's power to be destructive. With all the weapons available to our leaders, and with the blatant disregard for human life, if the Bushes and Clintons are even one percent as bad as I claim, then we're dead. All of us.

I've run into other forums where minutae is debated, and that's good. Accuracy is important. But it is SO LATE IN THE GAME now, and we are so close to total enslavement, that I just PUSH BUTTONS. ANY BUTTONS. WHAT UPSETS YOU...U.S. GOVT INVOLVEMENT IN SEPT 11? CHILD SEX-SLAVE RINGS? A FEDERAL COURT UPHOLDING A RULING THAT WE HAVE NO RIGHTS? WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO GET THROUGH? So I use the scattergun approach and hope someone will get upset about something. But then, the thing people get MOST upset about, is my posting 'style'. Geez. Gimme a break, folks. I really AM trying to alert people, not scare, and I make mistakes...

Like right now, I'm thinking I need to post a thing for y'all about the Wackenhut Prison Industry. Owned by the Bushes. 8 million people in the U.S. in prison. Most per capita in the world. That's why the 'war on drugs' was launched (one reason) to get young 'workers' into the penal system. They work for pennies an hour and prisons are awarded state, county and federal contracts. Slave labor, right here in the U.S. And it's a growing industry, thanks to the Cocaine Cartel and 'war on drugs' Bush # 1 was able to set up. And he helped FOUND Wackenhut...the # 1 prison builder in the U.S. I mean, some of this stuff is SO OBVIOUS I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING BUT MENTION THE NAME 'WACKENHUT' FOR YOU TO DO A SEARCH AND GET MAD!

End of sermon.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST,ho hos
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 02:06 PM

Guest-

Garbage in, Garbage out. Think about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 02:01 PM

Misattribution does indeed devalue a quote which has been attributed precisely to lend it credibility. It also detracts from the future credibility of the person making the attribution. When one's stock-in-trade is citing evidence from "credible sources" and one misidentifies those sources, one dilutes the impact of anything one has to say. I think.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 01:56 PM

Yeah, Chicken Little. Probably taken already. I was also thinking of spArrow ... with a capital A showing I'm armed (arrow).

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 01:53 PM

Of course I don't research for a living. I'd starve. You know that. But I post so much stuff I make a lot of mistakes. Sorry. That doesn't diminish the power of the quote, though, does it? That quote describes EXACTLY the situation we are in now, no matter who said it.

So anyway, I was thinking of using 'Sparrownoid' as a handle so you folks can ID me...avoid the painful truth if you want. What do you think? From Little Hawk's mention of sparrows having REASON to be spooked. I do value you imput, Ebbie, so what do you think?

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 01:49 PM

Guest, you say your looking for a handle? Every time you post it seems people say, "the sky is falling"- how about Chicken Little? Ha!
I have not checked out that site you posted, infowars, it always seemed ominous to me. Don't ask me why.
Hey Harpgirl, what is that all about? Your last post? Are you crying for censorship on the cat?
Peace, Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 12:44 PM

GUEST, I do hope you are not gainfully employed in research! If you are being paid anything, you are being over-paid.

In the interest of accuracy, Milton Mayer did NOT write the book from his personal observations while living in Nazi Germany, as you say.

Milton Mayer is an American journalist, of "German Jewish descent", enquote, who in the book quoted a "colleague of mine", enquote.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 12:18 PM

Someone mentioned Mel Gibson. I heard his father will be interviewed tonight on this radio network:

http://www.infowars.com/index.html

Just go to the site and click on one of the 'Listen Here', buttons at the top left. Streaming audio.

The show is supposed to be aired at 8:00PM central time. The host is 'Pastor Butch Paul', a fire-breather from West Virginia. Radical right-winger.

Anyway, I never knew much about Gibson and his family, but his father is now 85. He was living in New York when America started committing troops to Viet Nam war started cranking up...and he didn't want that for his sons. Gibson knew about the New World Order / globalist domination plans even back then and didn't want to feed his family to the system, so he moved to Australia in the early sixties.

So it would make sense that Mel makes movies about conspiracies and patriotism. Anyway, I don't listen to Pastor Butch because I heard enough of that in my youth, but this show tonight should be interesting, if the guest comes on as announced.

And then AFTER the show, leave it tuned in for Alex Jones. He has a pretty sophisticated web site, so you can read the stories he covers AS he talks about them on the air. The best, most interactive learning set-up I've ever come across as far as current events.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 12:53 AM

It's the life of a slave, Kim C. All these years (if you're American), you've been saying 'well it may not be the perfect form of government, but it's the best in the world', and 'At least we have our freedoms'. But look at what happened in March of 1933. Americans were denied their rights. And it's been all downhill since then. You've been acclimated so slowly to the tyranny that you don't even see it.

Milton Mayer, in his book, They Thought They Were Free, describes this process from his personal observations of living in Germany during the rise of the Third Reich.

"Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for the one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow." But who will speak out without a voice? When the press is gone, organized opposition disappears also. "To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it - please try to believe me - unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, 'regretted,' that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these 'little measures' that no 'patriotic German' could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head."

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Kim C
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 05:45 PM

And I could walk out in the street and get hit by a truck, too, and lose everything in the blink of an eye. But I don't let it stop me from living my life.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 05:45 PM

There is the option of asking your representatives to endorse an impeachment of Bush.
http://www.rense.com/general33/preoi.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 05:37 PM

..."During the time of war or during any other period of national emergency declared by the President, the President may, through any agency, that he may designate, or otherwise..."

That is from the 'Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917'. The Act defined the 'enemy' to be people "OTHER THAN CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES" and gave the President the power to strip 'enemies' of the fundamental Constitutional rights enjoyed by American citizens.

On March 9, 1933, the Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917 was amended. "...other than citizens of the United States" was changed to "...ANY PERSON WITHIN THE UNITED STATES." So, the power of the President to deny Constitutional rights was extended to include Americans.

THEN, as soon as the Act was changed to include Americans, FDR used the Great Depression as a reason to declare a new national emergency. And AT THAT MOMENT, the President had the legal power to deny all Americans the protections of the Constitution. We came under martial law in March of 1933.

We have been under various 'states of emergency' ever since. Currently, we are under the one declared on Sept. 24, 2001, by GWBush. So you HAVE no Constitution at this moment in time, folks. The President or any of his 'designees' can seize your property, your guns, your family, your bank account, you, your food, your pets...everything you have in this world. And in addition to losing your property, you can have your means of livelihood taken from you, and your liberty. Look up the Acts of 1917 and 1933 to see a list of what you could lose at any time.

http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title50a/50a_2_1_.html

(Sorry if I burst any bubbles, huckleberries)

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Kim C
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 05:06 PM

Hey, the colonists could have chosen some other form of government. But they didn't.

Everyone keeps talking about the erosion of civil rights - but even when I asked my husband, what right has been taken away from you personally, he couldn't give me a specific answer.

There may be a bunch of goobers in this country playing with the Constitution - but as far as I know, none of the Bill of Rights has been officially repealed by the Congress.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 04:08 PM

Because of the civil rights we used to have? ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Kim C
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 03:30 PM

I asked this on another thread and I don't believe I ever got an answer.

Is bullshit one word or two?

Our government is 227 years old. If they wanted to destroy us, why are they taking so damn long?

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: harpgirl
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 03:09 PM

MMMMMMAAAAAXXXXXX!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 02:59 PM

Actually, I hope you ARE a monitor. No one could follow my postings and not at least have some SUSPICIONS about what I'm saying. Just today...I posted an URL to a story about a cover-up involving a Bush Baby. That is all COMPLETELY new to me. More evidence...more motive behind Sept. 11. And then the URL about the HEAD of Child Protective Services in Florida being a child molester. I mean, if you ARE a govt. agent and are following 'subversives', how could you not start to worry about your own family after reading some of those stories? Look at who has been punished for Sept. 11...FBI field agents who did the right thing and tried to stop bin Laden. So you would be in a fix as an agent...if you do the right thing and try to stop the monsters taking over the world, you're fired and villified, but if you DON'T stop this evil system, it will chew up you and your family after it's done with me. So yeah, I hope you are an agent. I really have talked to them online before, and they're not stupid. I've told them what I just told you, and they know I'm right on at least ONE point...If the system is as corrupt as I present, then they will die at its hands, too. I think that's why there's a chance to stop this thing from reaching total tyranny...because federal agents are smart, and they see where a U.N. dominated North America would lead. To concentration camps and the deaths of their families. So if you're an agent, at least check out some of this stuff before debunking it. For your family's sake.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 02:58 PM

He's not a flamer, Doug. He's dead serious. And as far as paranoid goes, well, maybe so... But did you ever observe a bunch of sparrows huddling in a hedge while a sparrowhawk makes passes over their heads? Paranoid as all hell! Only question is, are those real sparrowhawks out there over your spacious skies, your amber waves of grain? Who really has the weapons of mass destruction, and is prepared to use them? Who? Saddam is a red herring. The excuse of the hour. He's about as important as Manuel Noriega or Anastasio Somoza. Remember them?

The "Eyes Wide Shut" analogy is quite intriguing. Talk about a creepy movie...

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST,Casual Observer
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 02:29 PM

You got me. I'll be going back to the Mother Ship now.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 02:09 PM

You're an agent. I've run into them before. Debunk the story by casting it as a 'theory' or smear the messenger. The Miami Herald (not me) printed the story about the sex offender having total access to the files of Florida's children. The Treasury is issuing the new twenties, not me. You're not very good at your job.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST,Casual Observer
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 01:59 PM

You forgot human cloning and the aliens that are supposed to come back to earth and make us their mind-slaves.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 01:53 PM

Florida's embattled child-welfare agency -- the Department of Children & Families -- employs at least 183 people who have been arrested and punished for an array of felonies including child molestation, child abuse, sex crimes, drug dealing, even welfare fraud against the agency itself, a Herald investigation has found.

For instance, the HEAD of the agency's data-security team in Tallahassee is listed on the state's list of sexual predators for molesting a 5-year-old boy...

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/4026447.htm

Of course I'm paranoid. All of us are. And you folks need to be MORE paranoid. In the Bush state of Florida, THOUSANDS of children are missing. Taken from their natural families and then they disappear on their way to 'relocation'. They are being sold as child sex slaves, ritual sacrifice meat and CIA mind-control victims. Bush Sr. used these kids to mule cocaine and heroin into the country for the CIA. No one checks kids at airports. And even if they DO get caught, the only sure way out of a drug bust is to flash a CIA badge. Look around. These stories are everywhere on the internet. From reliable sources. And I'd say the truly paranoid people are the ones who refuse to acknowledge this stuff. I'm more or less comfortable with it because, once you know what the problem is, you can work to correct it. And the PROBLEM is our ruling elite is decadent beyond your wildest dreams. They have been in power for so long and are so jaded, they've grown weary of the status quo and are searching for 'alternative lifestyles'. Which has led them to satanism and Nazi mind control and child sacrifice. And these are the people who are about to...

They're getting ready to constrict the money supply in America. This year we start with a re-print of the twenty dollar bill. Going to add color to it to 'thwart the counterfeiters'. But in reality, they just want to collect all the old twenties, and then issue FEWER new ones. Then they'll do the same with fifties, hundreds, tens, fives, etc. And before long, there won't be enough money in circulation for you to pay off your debts. Physically not enough money. That's why we're all being offered zero-down home loans and 0% car financing and free credit cards...they WANT us in debt. Because they are now going to make it impossible for you to get OUT of debt. And then, you'll have to turn over your real estate to them.

I believe there are long-term plans for world conquest and short term plans. The above is a long-term plan, but if they get the chance to do it quickly...to take control of all the real estate in the U.S. by releasing smallpox, for example...they'll do it. These folks drink baby's blood and rape children to create fragmented personalities, so they're capable of anything. And yes, that makes me a bit paranoid.

By the way, maybe I should get a handle, so you folks won't have to read about this stuff if you don't want to. One of you may have a missing child, and that disturbs me. Sorry if I offended you. Someone give me a handle and then you nice folks won't have to click on this stuff if you don't want to. But I HAVE to spread what I learn.