BS: Conservatism in the United States

Subject: RE: BS: Conservatism in the United States
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 03:52 AM

Inherently, conservatism is about the freedom of the strong to exploit the weak.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservatism in the United States
From: Skivee
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 12:55 AM

""Conservative" and "Liberal" have been grossly re-defined in recent times in order to make two entirely different sets or clumps than they ever denoted before."
Right. It drives me nuts that political wonks and snipers distort their rivals positions so outragiously.
I just heard a Republican spokesman characterize Obama as having left no notable voting record except to support only the most extreme left wing positions.
We recently heard John MacCain's years of misery in a Vietnamese prison camp being mocked as an unnoteworthy thing.
The parties are gearing up to pitch a victory on either side as the beginning of a new dark age...gotta stir up the voters, right.
Either man will be an improvement over the unprincipled scoundrels in office now.
It's just this kind of polemic crap that makes folks LESS likely to vote.
Liberals and Conservatives should decry this crap at every turn. Let's take back the center.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservatism in the United States
From: Amos
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 12:26 AM

Thanks, yes.

When you say "security is non-negotiable", is there some level of security you felt we once had at some point in the past which we do not have now? Islam extremism is definitely a more coherent face to what must have been a long simmering hatred. And I am not sure, if there is such a risk that wasn't present earlier, where it can be considered to be from. Osama bin Laden? All mullahs? All Muslims? What is the right target?

As to skyscrapers, I go into the local variety fairly often and the idea of a 747 coming through doesn't even cross my mind, in spite of the weird local flight path approaching Lindbergh Field. But I guess it is understandable if some folks still get the heeby-jeebies thinking about it. I do remember there was a time in the past when it didn't occur to m e to think of a fully-fueled aircraft as a weapon.

In tradiional political terms, these issues were not part of the word "conservative", as it applied to people in the EIsenhower administration, for example, so it also strikes me that these two words "Conservative" and "Liberal" have been grossly re-defined in recent times in order to make two entirely different sets or clumps than they ever denoted before.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Conservatism in the United States
From: Conservative...YES!!
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 12:08 AM

Amos,

Another point to be brought out is that while we call ourselves "Conservative" that doesn't automatically equate to voting republican.

Even though I agree with a lot of what Bush has done, there are some things that he has done and said that make me want to tie him to the oak tree and whip him with a wet noodle.

I do believe in less government interference and less taxes. I do believe in greater personal responsibility. I believe we need to do more about illegal aliens and of course the sanctity of life. We need to become energy independent but not at the cost of people such as you and me. If oil is the product which gets us to the future faster then let's drill for it wherever we can find it. Along the way, if a viable alternate solution is found then great!

Security is non-negotiable. We must do what is needed and sometimes use questionable means if it means that we can go into skyscrapers without the fear of getting up close and personal with a 767. I believe that it can be done while, at the same time, preserving the constitutional rights afforded to us.

The only difference is that how far are we willing to take these beliefs?

That is, as I see it, where our paths diverge.

But are our viewpoints really too far apart to try and discover any middle ground?

I'm sure that there is middle ground that can be found but the climate in D.C. is so polarized at this point that no one can seem to resist offering a soundbite to take a dig at their rival or rivals.

I think that being a true conservative means trying to win people to my way of thinking using logic and sensibility. (That's not saying that anybody that calls themself anything other than conservative isn't logical or sensible.) It's just that we hold strong to our convictions and are convinced that our ideas are the way to a better life.

Do I support McCain? No! I see McCain as a middle of the road pacifier. But who will I vote for? Probably McCain. People will undoubtedly point out that I pointed out in the above paragraph about holding strong to my convictions but I feel that a vote for an alternate to McCain is as good as a vote for Obama.

An Obama administration is something that I feel this country cannot afford. Not only fiscally but also socially and security wise.

But that's just my opinion.

Yes!!

Subject: BS: Conservatism in the United States
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 10:42 PM

There is no doubt that the strongest facets of the conservative movement in this country are polemical, combative, and often loud. Buckley was the best they had, and his Eminence Grise of the Conservative movement role has been taken up as much by Rush Limbaugh as anyone -- a brilliant man, but one full of bile and anger, and one who thinks with more heat than light. Hannity is a wannabe, but as far as I can see he is just a mob-lasher whose highest qualifications are (1)sound and (2)fury.

But behind the clouds generated by the loud polemical arm-wavers, it cannot be doubted that there are many more quiet, perhaps even thoughtful souls, whose commitment is genuinely based on a dislike of government, a powerful belief in individual responsibility, a strong dislike of progressive taxation, and a conviction that America is the best nation in the world despite its flaws. A belief that I once shared, actually, prior to the neocon invasion. Oddly enough, Rush Limbaugh does not consider either Bush OR MCCain as a true conservative, which immediately tells you he has a more refined meaning in mind for the word.

Here at the Cat, of course, we tend to gravitate strongly toward democratic ideals of a liberal stamp, being attuned to the long history of labor, low-rent livin', desperate high-jinks, hard traveling and heartbreak that our musical tradition centers around. But individually, many of us are not pure pinko tree-hugging commie hippie beatnik bastards (a phrase that was taught to me by a Philadelphia police gentleman). We have some kind and reasonable folks who are distinctly right of center, and are much dismayed by some of the Republican Party's highjinks of the last few years.

ANd on specific philosophical issues, many of us also believe, for example, in the rock-bottom resource of individual responsibility, initiative, the entrepreneurial spirit, the incomparable importance of the American Experiment begun in 1776, and the value of preserving some aspects of the American Heritage.

I was particularly interested in a recent article in the TImes Magazine, a closeup of Rush Limbaugh himself.

SO I thought it might be worthwhile to ask what you see or know about the Conservative philosophy as she is spoke and as she is practiced , what it means to those who ally themselves with its banner. What is the belief system that informs a "conservative"?

My suspicion, FWIW, is that under the sturm und drang of the polarized beliefs of some, there is a core set of almost axiomatic agreements that form a more important common ground.

What do you know about the actual thoughts and practices of Conservatism?

A