BS: Give em shit, Canada

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 12:10 AM

Fuck it. Why not now.

Execution methods in the USA


Execution methods in Canada

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 12:05 AM

Capital Punishment in the USA

Capital Punishment in Canada

I'll do the comparisons tomorrow.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 12:04 AM

"Women's Human Rights

Abuse of Women in Custody: Sexual Misconduct and the Shackling of Pregnant Women

Many states fail to adequately protect incarcerated women from sexual misconduct at the hands of corrections staff and allow the dangerous practice of shackling inmates during the third trimester of pregnancy -- including during labor and delivery. The following report examines the current laws, policies and practices in all 50 states, the District of Columbia and the U.S. Bureau of Prisons regarding custodial sexual misconduct (CSM) and the shackling of inmates who are pregnant or giving birth."

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 12:02 AM

"Children's Rights

Custody and Control
Conditions of Confinement in New York's Juvenile Prisons for Girls
This 136-page report provides an in-depth look at the abuses and neglect suffered by girls confined in two remote New York State juvenile facilities known as Tryon and Lansing. The facilities are operated by the New York Office of Children and Family Services (OCFS) and are the only two higher-security facilities in New York State holding girls."

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 12:00 AM

"Real lives

Rabia is the wife of Majid Khan, a detainee transferred to Guantánamo from secret CIA custody

My husband was kidnapped over three years ago, and in this period I have not known anything about his whereabouts and how he is keeping (...) Recently I have found out that he has been transferred to Guantánamo. I am very happy that he's alive, but it's a shock because I've heard a lot about what happens there."

From Amnesty International.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 11:46 PM

SHAME ON YOU

'The story of the encounter between European settlers and America's native population does not make for pleasant reading. Among early accounts, perhaps the most famous is Helen Hunt Jackson's A Century of Dishonor (1888), a doleful recitation of forced removals, killings, and callous disregard. Jackson's book, which clearly captured some essential elements of what happened, also set a pattern of exaggeration and one-sided indictment that has persisted to this day.

Thus, according to Ward Churchill, a professor of ethnic studies at the University of Colorado, the reduction of the North American Indian population from an estimated 12 million in 1500 to barely 237,000 in 1900 represents a "vast genocide . . . , the most sustained on record." By the end of the 19th century, writes David E. Stannard, a historian at the University of Hawaii, native Americans had undergone the "worst human holocaust the world had ever witnessed, roaring across two continents non-stop for four centuries and consuming the lives of countless tens of millions of people." In the judgment of Lenore A. Stiffarm and Phil Lane, Jr., "there can be no more monumental example of sustained genocide—certainly none involving a 'race' of people as broad and complex as this—anywhere in the annals of human history."'

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 11:41 PM

Dickey, Dickey, Dickey. Your hatred for Canada is obvious. That's too bad. Want to talk about August 6, 1945 or August 9, 1945? Want to have a peek? Want to dig for crap? because I can find more on your country than you ever will on mine. I think you should take a good look at the place you live and ask a few questions. As a Canadian, there is not a single thing you've mentioned that has not drawn letters from me to newspapers, government bodies or organizations that attempt to effect change. You neglected to mention Grassy Narrows. It was ugly, and government knew. And they did nothing. But then, I guess, you wouldn't know about that. I also doubt you'd know about the present poisoning of Cree people in northern Saskatchewan caused by crap ending up in the food chain from Uranium City. I have lived with those people, and they are real people to me. What they are to you is fodder for your "I hate Canada" shit. Kindly fuck off and fix the place you live in. You do not care about people. You care about your arguments.

Fuck you and the horse you rode in on. When you wish to try to effect positive change I will take you seriously. Until then, I will perceive you to be a guy who hasn't got the courage of what he thinks are his convictions. Hatred is not a conviction. And that;'s what it is with you.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 11:37 PM

SHAME:
The Sponsorship Scandal

"The program ran from 1996 until 2004, when broad corruption was discovered in its operations and the program was discontinued. Illicit and even illegal activities within the administration of the program were revealed, involving misuse and misdirection of public funds intended for government advertising in Quebec. Such misdirections included sponsorship money awarded to ad firms in return for little or no work, which firms maintained Liberal organizers or fundraisers on their payrolls or donated back part of the money to the Liberal Party. The resulting investigations and scandal affected the Liberal Party of Canada and the then government of Prime Minister Paul Martin. It was an ongoing affair for years, but rose to national prominence in early 2004 after the program was examined by Sheila Fraser, the federal auditor general. "

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: bobad
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 11:28 PM

"In 1988 redress for the Japanese Canadians was passed and the Prime Minister issued an apology for the miscarriage of justice that led to internment and incarceration. Yet the $21,000 of redress money hardly compensates for the lost years of incarceration, property confiscated, family separations and disruptions, and the invisible psychological scars and memories of racial injustices that remain."

http://www.csuohio.edu/art_photos/canada/canada.htmlhttp://www.csuohio.edu/art_photos/canada/canada.html

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 11:27 PM

"Recent settlement (s)

It should be noted, however, that since the settlement of the Japanese Canadian Redress, Canada also offered compensation to the Aboriginal Veterans in 2002. Similarly, in the year 2000, the federal government settled a compensation package with the merchant mariners. The government also settled compensation with the victims of the Thalidomide incidents and Hepatitis C in 1990 and 1998, respectively. Therefore, while the government declares its objection to further financial compensation, its actions, in these cases, present contradictions in its policy and practices."

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 11:16 PM

SHAME:

In Canada, nearly 23,000 Nikkei, or Canadians of Japanese descent, were sent to camps in British Columbia. It was the greatest mass movement in the history of Canada.

Though families were generally kept together in the United States, Canada sent male evacuees to work in road camps or on sugar beet projects. Women and children Nikkei were forced to move to six inner British Columbia towns.

On February 19, 1942, soon after the beginning of World War II, Franklin D. Roosevelt signed Executive Order 9066. The evacuation order commenced the round-up of 120,000 Americans of Japanese heritage to one of 10 internment camps—officially called "relocation centers"—in California, Idaho, Utah, Arizona, Wyoming, Colorado, and Arkansas.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: gnu
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 05:49 AM

Thanks dianavan.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: dianavan
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 04:37 AM

gnu - Maher Arar was tortured in Syria for nearly four years. He was released because the Canadian Embassy pressured the Syrian Military Intelligence to release him after Maher's wife fought for truth and justice in Canada. Her struggle and determination should be an example for all of us.

Dickie - Who the **** is Dat? You have no credibility and no conscience. It is you, in fact, who are mean-spirited. I'd like to ignore you but I'm sure you will appear as a Guest with a new name.

Peace - Thanks for the research. I hope the Arar case serves as an example to the apathetic who think that they have no power.

Your quote, " Total number of detainees held outside the USA by the US during "war on terror" 70,000."

SHAME!

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 12:02 AM

On the question of the Geneva Conventions, the brief argues, Judge Green's contention that Taleban detainees picked up in Afghanistan should have been presumed to have prisoner of war status is "inconsistent with the deference owed to the President as Commander-in-Chief" who had unilaterally decided otherwise.(6)

This brief is perhaps an unsurprising response from an administration whose outgoing Attorney General decried what he characterized as "intrusive judicial oversight and second-guessing of presidential determinations";(7) whose Justice Department formulated the position, accepted by the White House Counsel, that the President – who apparently believes that there are people who are "not legally entitled" to humane treatment(8) – could override the national and international prohibition on torture;(9) and whose Secretary of Defense has authorized interrogation techniques that violate international law and standards.(10) This is an administration that has sought unchecked power throughout the "war on terror" and shown a chilling disregard for international law. The USA's policies and practices have led to serious human rights violations and have set a dangerous precedent internationally.


USA's "war on terror" detainees, April 2005
(approximate totals/estimates)(11)
USA: Naval Brig, Charleston, South Carolina 2 "enemy combatants"
Cuba: Guantánamo Bay naval base 520
(234 releases/transfers)
Afghanistan: Bagram air base 300
Afghanistan: Kandahar air base 250
Afghanistan: other US facilities (forward operating bases) Unknown: estimated at scores of detainees
Iraq: Camp Bucca 6,300
Iraq: Abu Ghraib prison 3,500
Iraq: Camp Cropper 110
Iraq: Other US facilities 1,300
Worldwide: CIA facilities, undisclosed locations Unknown: estimated at 40 detainees
Worldwide: In custody of other governments at behest of USA Unknown: estimated at several thousand detainees
Worldwide: Secret transfers of detainees to third countries Unknown: estimated at 100 to 150 detainees
Foreign nationals held outside the USA and charged for trial 4
Trials of foreign nationals held in US custody outside the USA 0
Total number of detainees held outside the USA by the US during "war on terror" 70,000


The above is also from an Amnesty site. FYI.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 11:55 PM

However, that said, Amnesty has posted the following letter:

"The health and well-being of Security Certificate detainees at the Kingston Immigration Holding Centre - Open letter
The Honourable Stockwell Day
Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0P8

2 February , 2007

Dear Minister,

Amnesty International is writing this open letter to you out of increasing concern about the health and well-being of Mahmoud Jaballah, Mohammad Mahjoub and Hassan Almrei, who have been on hunger strikes for more than eight weeks now at the Kingston Immigration Holding Centre (KIHC). We believe that the government can and must do more to respond to this mounting crisis.

These men are held under immigration security certificates and have all been detained in excess of five years. Their detention has truly become tantamount to being indefinite as they have limited choices: either remain detained while continuing to pursue legal challenges to the unjust procedure that governs their cases, or agree to be returned to countries where Amnesty International believes they face a serious risk of torture.

Amnesty International recognizes that a hunger strike can be a form of non-violent protest against an abuse of human rights. It comes as no surprise that these individuals, facing great stress and with no other effective options, have resorted to such action.

Numerous human rights organizations, legal academics, as well as expert United Nations human rights bodies such as the Human Rights Committee, the Committee against Torture and the Working Group on Arbitrary Detention have expressed serious concerns about the fact that the security certificate process fails to meet international standards governing detention and fair trials. They have also expressed concern with the government's position that it is justifiable to deport these men to countries where they are at risk of torture.

These concerns about lack of a fair process and risk of return to torture lie at the heart of the hunger strikes. Amnesty International has repeatedly called on Canada to reform laws and practice regarding security certificates and detention conditions for security detainees. We have also called for amendments to Canadian law in order to unequivocally ban the deportation of anyone to a country where they face a serious risk of being tortured. These men have felt compelled to take this desperate step as a result of the government's failure to address these serious human rights shortcomings.

Amnesty International has also highlighted concerns with respect to the nature of family visits, access to prison programs, access to medical care, regular exercise and outdoor access for the detainees. We have urged that an independent complaints process be instituted, to look into concerns about detention practices. The federal Correctional Investigator raised the concern that the transfer of these three men to the KIHC would result in the loss of "the benefit of a rigorous ombudsman's legislative framework to file complaints about their care and humane treatment while in custody."   That has indeed proven to be the case.

The current hunger strikes have raised concerns about the regular medical monitoring of the health of the detainees. It has been reported that there has not been any medical check-ups of these three men during the course of the hunger strikes. This is of grave concern given indications that their health is failing rapidly. The World Medical Association., in its 1992 Declaration on Hunger Strikes, highlighted the importance of daily medical visits to ascertain whether or not individuals wish to continue with hunger strikes.

Given the lack of an independent complaints process and the apparent failure to carry out ongoing medical monitoring, it is vital that the government move without delay to ensure there is impartial review of the allegations and demands made by the hunger strikers. Amnesty International requests that you:

urgently appoint someone to carry out that review; and
ensure that regular medical monitoring of these three men begins immediately and is not made subject to any arbitrary or unreasonable conditions.   
Sincerely,



Alex Neve
Secretary General
Amnesty International Canada
(English branch)

André Paradis
Directeur Général
Amnistie Internationale
Section canadienne francophone"

(IMO, having Stockwell Day in charge of anything more complicated than a Lego set is stupid on Canada's part.)

Dickey, do you feel as upset with the US detaining people under similar circumstances?

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 11:48 PM

"Citizenship and Immigration Canada can remove a person considered to be a security threat by issuing a Security Certificate signed by the solicitor general and the minister of citizenship and immigration, and endorsed by a judge of the Federal Court.

When a security certificate is issued:


All other immigration proceedings are suspended until the Federal Court makes a final decision about the certificate.
Foreign nationals who are the subject of a Security Certificate are automatically detained. Permanent residents may be detained on a case-by-case basis.

If the Federal Court decides that the certificate is unreasonable, it is quashed. If the court decides that it is reasonable, the certificate becomes an order for removal of the person. The court's decision can't be appealed.

Since 1978, security certificates have been issued 28 times. The latest use was in November 2006 in the arrest of an alleged spy in Montreal."

Seems we issue one per year on average. Not exactly Guantanamo's stats.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 11:45 PM

Court refuses to order Harkat's release

Last Updated: Friday, December 30, 2005 | 12:06 PM ET

CBC News

Mohamed Harkat, an Algerian man who has been held in an Ottawa jail on a security certificate for three years, has had his latest application for release dismissed by a federal court.
The ruling was released Friday.

Justice Francois Lemieux could have released Harkat if he believed the Algerian would linger in custody indefinitely or did not pose a threat to national security.

But Lemieux ruled Harkat "has not satisfied me he will not be removed [from Canada] within a reasonable time."

Because Harkat failed to convince the judge on the first condition, Lemieux did not have to consider the issue of whether he posed a security risk if he were released.

Under a security certificate, a detainee can be held indefinitely without a trial, and the government can keep any evidence against him or her secret.

The Canadian Security Intelligence Service alleges Harkat is a member of al-Qaeda who trained in Afghanistan and entered Canada as a sleeper agent.

Harkat, 36, is a refugee from Algeria. CSIS kept him under its scrutiny for five years before he was arrested in December 2002.

Along with claiming that he belongs to al-Qaeda, the spy service says he supports Afghan, Pakistani and Chechen extremists.

CSIS alleges that Abu Zubaydah, one of al-Qaeda head Osama bin Laden's chief lieutenants, identified Harkat as the operator of a guest house in Pakistan for extremists headed for Chechnya.

Harkat arrived in Toronto in 1995 from Malaysia, using a fake Saudi passport. He applied for refugee status claiming a fear of persecution by the Algerian government.

He moved to Ottawa, married and worked most recently delivering pizzas and pumping gas. His refugee status was granted in February 1997 and he applied for permanent residence the next month.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 11:44 PM

Forgot one:

Adil Charkaoui

"Adil Charkaoui is a Morocco-born permanent resident of Canada suspected by the Canadian Security Intelligence Service of having ties with the al Qaeda terrorist network.

He is one of five Muslim men detained in Canada since 2001 under a controversial law that allows detention of non-citizens declared to be a threat to national security, pending their deportation to their country of origin. Charkaoui was arrested in May 2003 and detained for 21 months without formal charge or trial. Access to his lawyer was restricted. Numerous legal challenges have been argued before the Canadian Federal Court, Federal Court of Appeal and the Supreme Court of Canada. He was released from custody on $50,000 dollars bail on 18 February 2005. His bail conditions included a curfew, electronic monitoring and designated chaperones for leaving his home..."

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 11:35 PM

Since then Dat has responded and does not agree that the hew evidence is enough to keeP Arar on the watch list.

Here are some more names to ponder:
Secret Trial Detainee Mohammad Mahjoub Seeks Bail After 6 Years of Detention
"...Held Without Charge Since June, 2000, Mohammad Mahjoub Applies for Bail Monday, December 4, 2006...
...Mohammad Mahjoub, who has served the longest of any of the secret trial security certificate detainees (since June, 2000), heads to Federal Court on Monday, December 4 at 9:30 am in Toronto to seek release to his family. Held without charge or bail for more than six years, Mahjoub, a refugee from Egypt, has been held at Metro West Detention and now in Kingston's Millhaven Penitentiary on the basis of secret evidence neither he nor his lawyer can see or challenge...
...Mahjoub's incarceration has included lengthy spells in solitary confinement and a series of hunger strikes protesting lack of medical treatment for conditions contracted in prison. One hunger strike lasted 79 days....."

Security certificates and secret evidence
"...Mahmoud Jaballah says he's no terrorist and he's never been charged with any crime in Canada. But since 2001, Jaballah has been in a Canadian jail because the government of Egypt says he's part of a terrorist organization called al-Jihad. The Canadian government believes that and says he's not a legitimate refugee, so it's trying to deport him back to Egypt, where Jaballah says he will be tortured and killed..."

Urgent Action Message from the Campaign to Stop Secret Trials in Canada
"Stop the Illegal Deportation of Hassan Almrei. Almrei To Face Same Torture as Maher Arar if Canadian Government Has Its Way and Deports Him to Syria Within Two Weeks...
...Refugee Has Spent Over Two Years in Solitary Confinement in Toronto Prison on "Secret "Evidence" Neither He nor his Lawyer is Allowed to See"

Urgent Bail Support Required For Mohamed Harkat
""Mohamed Harkat has been detained under a Security Certificate since Dec. 10th, 2002 without any charges or access to the evidence. He has been held for 41 months without a fair and open trial. CSIS claims they have "so called" secret evidence against him. Our legal team has been kept in the dark since his arrest. He is not staying at Guantanamo North in Kingston area. He was granted bail on May 23rd under very strict conditions but his campaign is still short of the target for the bail money..."

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 07:30 PM

Well, there's the Canadian connection right there. That guy has lots to answer for, IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: flattop
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 07:29 PM

Little Hawk once flew to Havana.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 06:20 PM

In Canada, the news of this kind of thing gets out and gets dealt with by government. In your country, it gets stonewalled. So, other than that, how's things in the Cuban resort?

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 06:19 PM

Ring any bells?

Ding.

dong!


But, anything to take our minds off it all, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 06:05 PM

Unlike the CIA and FBI who drop the fuckin' ball completely. See events of 9/11. But then, let's not talk about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: flattop
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 06:00 PM

The TV news said 103 Canadians porn leads, no mention of only 19 real suspects. That's over five errors, which could destroy innocent lives, for each potential suspect? Remarkable international police work.

Perhaps the Austrians' eighty-four bum leads pointing at Canada were Royal Canadian Mounted IP addresses or Royal Canadian Mounted credit card numbers. These would have been used strictly for legitimate police work. Canadian police only gaze at porn or club a suspect senseless in the line of duty.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 04:47 PM

If indeed Canada 'out-sourced' torture to the bloody Syrians, I will write to Ottawa--not that that will do any good because they still haven't answered my e-mail about the submarine fire--and complain loudly. When my country and its elected representatives do bad stuff, I want the poeple who did it to get their pee pees slapped, big time. White wash don't cut it, IMO. But then neither does allegation or accusation, rumour or gossip. The Commission WILL establish the truth of this matter. Then and only then will I ask for someone's head on a platter. If the RCs have done it again, then I really do hope those who fabricated evidence or put spin on evidence face jail time. However, that aside, it seems that some Yanks don't think the same way about Guantanamo. Guantanamo is a blot on your democracy, and accusations about this country to your north (or west-southwest if yer in Alaska) do nothing to change the prison you keep in Cuba.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: gnu
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 04:37 PM

My apologies.....

I have not read this entire thread.

I have not followed the Arar "case".

I would appreciate someone knowledgible about this thread and/or this case answering a few questions, if they have time.

How long was Arar kept in Syria?

How was Arar tortured in Syria?

Why did Syria let him return to Canada?

Of course, if these questions have already been answered above, please just tell me that and I will read the whole thread.

Thanks in adavnce.

g

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 02:49 PM

"They want to share them with Canadian authorities but they have not responded."

Sources, please.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 02:44 PM

It was stated some time ago the the US has new reasons to keep Arar on the watch list. They want to share them with Canadian authorities but they have not responded.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 02:37 PM

I, too, have alot of questions. As I said in the beginning post, our P.M. has stated, "..the United States has requested that Canada not push the United States to amend its records for Mr. Arar."

Why is that, Dickie? Its the right time to start asking a few questions about Guantanamo, extraordinary rendition and outsourcing torture. Canada has started the process. U.S. citizens have the perfect opportunity (with Canadian citizens right behind them) to make their country accountable. The Arar case has opened up the inquiry and I say its about time.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 02:07 PM

If only the unbiased posted here, the would be no thread.

All three "innocent" citizens were taken into custody in Syria. The charge is that Canada was involved by telling the Syrians what questions they needed answered while being interrogated, Syrian style.

Arar would never have been detained by the US without erroneous info from Canada. The US did send him to Jordan and then he was transported to Syria where he met the same fate as the other three.

I would like to know if The Canadians requested the US to send him to Jordan which seems possible to me.

I would also like to know why Canada did not ask that he be sent to Canada. That seems the most logical thing for them to do unless they wanted him sent to Jordan so he could be interrogated by the Syrians like the other three.

In any event these terrorism cases have many facets and swift judgments are not in the best interest of safety. Nothing is simple and clearcut in the Muslim world. There are a thousand of shades of gray between peaceful Muslims and radical Muslim extremists.

The thing that irks me is that to me it seems the majority of Muslims will allow the extremists to terrorize without even objecting to the bad name they give to the Muslim image as a whole. It is as if they are either afraid or they wouldn't mind if the whole world comes under Muslim dominance.

However if there was Muslim dominance, there would still be wars between the different sects of the religion like Shia and Sunni.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 05:58 AM

Trust me, able, I ain't in a lather, but thanks for the advice.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: able
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 05:37 AM

Peace,,,, I realise that Dickey can be an irritating son of a bitch, but you seem to be taking it personal, surely you can't think he isn't laughing up his sleeve at your personal angst. You have made your position clear, he avoids the issues he doesn't feel comfortable with. Working yourself up into a lather isn't going to cause him to change and besides, what makes him so important that you're wasting your time with his obviously biased opinions.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 04:50 AM

However, Dickey, I am willing to await the Canadian inquiry into the treatment of those men. You on the other hand have remained strangely silent about Guantanamo, an institution you seem to be trying to deflect inquiry away from. Tell me this, Dickey: when will YOUR government follow Canada's lead and investigate the jailings of people there? OH, we don't want to talk about THAT do we? No. This is your typical 'I hate Canada' shit, prompted by I don't know what. My last words have to be these: "Get stuffed you sanctimonious arsehole." When your government has half the balls ours does to look into the stuff it does wrong then and only then will you and I have another word to say to each other. Bye.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 04:40 AM

So, Dickey, what do you think he would have said about Guantanamo? Have you read The Bard? Ever hear of a petard?

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 04:37 AM

The following is freely available on the www.

Abdullah recently was invited [from 2006] to give a speech in London England at Amnesty International and Reprieive conference titled: "The Global Struggle Against Torture: Guantánamo Bay, Bagram and beyond"

Guantánamo Bay, Bagram and beyond

Torture is simply unacceptable. So too is the personal cost of the counter-terrorism measures being deployed in the name of security and freedom.

The conference from 19-21 November 2005, "The Global Struggle Against Torture: Guantánamo Bay, Bagram and Beyond" revealed a subversive operation of secret detentions, renditions, 'disappearances', and diplomatic assurances that all violate basic human rights. Such practices fuel the practice of torture and create division, endangering us all."

BTW, he IS Canadian. He was born in Damascus in 1971, emigrated to Canada in 1987 and became a Canadian citizen in 1991.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 02:22 AM

Thanks, Metchosin, its hard to get the straight facts on a case thats before the courts.

I'm just so happy that Arar actually received an apology and compensation. I hope the others will also receive justice.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Metchosin
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 02:14 AM

dianavan, Abdullah Almalki wasn't sent to Syria by Canada, I believe he was purportedly going to visit a sick relative there, when he was picked up at the airport by Syrian authorities.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 12:21 AM

It appears that they may, in fact, be citizens. It was my understanding that they were landed immigrants. In any event, there cases are being investigated separately from Arar's and hopefully we will find out why the Canadian government felt justified in sending them to Syria.

That still leaves the U.S. to do some explaining in the Arar case. An apology would be appropriate but I hope Arar sues them for mental and physical anguish. He did nothing wrong. By suing them, perhaps we will find out about the role of Canada. Its not going to go away with the resignation of one RCMP big wig - I'm very glad that Arar has the determination to pursue this.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 11:04 PM

That post at 10:27 was mine.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:46 PM

Just for the record: re: child-porn case - "while their European counterparts say they have identified 103 Canadian computer addresses, RCMP spokeswoman Sergeant Sylvie Tremblay said the force has so far received only 19, and is unsure about the cause of the large discrepancy."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070208.CHILDPORN08/TPStory/National

No doubt flattop would know better than RCMP spokeswoman Sergeant Sylvie Tremblay, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:27 PM

"not Canadian citizens" I have read from several sources, including the Arar website quoted above, that they are Canadian Citizens.

http://www.amnesty.ca/themes/canada_no_security.php

"...Three other Canadian citizens – Abdullah Almalki, Ahmad El-Maati and Muayyed Nureddin – were also detained and tortured abroad. There are serious concerns about the complicity of Canadian agencies in what happened to them...."

So keep on saying they are not.

All you are doing is spouting Hypocrisy. All you want to do is criticize the US in a mean spirited, foul mouthed manner to cover up what Canada does.

Typical of a liberal peacenik who yells about of peace, love and understanding through a megaphone while shaking their fist in anger.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 11:05 AM

Dickey - How many times do you have to be told that the incident of the three others (aside from Arar) is now before the courts and that they are not Canadian citizens. You are comparing apples to oranges. The Arar case is different in many ways and thats why the situations are being investigated separately.

Whats the U.S. doing about the people they have handed over to be tortured? Who are they? Are they still imprisoned? How many have died. I think the U.S. govt. has alot of answering to do and the least you could do is start asking a few questions and demand some answers.

At least the Arars have had the courage to do that.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 06:20 AM

"I take it you want to concentrate on what the US might have done wrong and not question if it is different from what Canada has done."

OH. It's not about right or wrong, it's about CANADIAN right or wrong. Foolish me. Yes, Canada was wrong about Arar. So was the US. YOU shipped him to Syria, not us. Have a NICE day.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: able
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 03:28 AM

I see this thread hasn't become any less spirited. If you don't read it every day, it seems more like a soap opera. You know, the kind where you can miss 5 episodes, come back and feel that you haven't missed a thing. To me, that indicates that everyone has entrenched positions and no one is prepared to give an inch.       Flattop, I don't even try to watch the news, has there been another big kiddyporn bust? Some years ago one of the area perverts was charged in a big sweep, the guy had to be close to 7 feet tall and 350 pounds and I had to wonder how scared a kid would be seeing that giant approaching. There you go folks, something to get pissed about, distract you, let you step back and evaluate your position. Ding, starting round 1,218. Bye.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 01:19 AM

"Canada has a half dozen. The US has 500"

You dodged these two:

How many of those half dozen were detained on the battlefield?

How many of the 500 were detained in the US?

Here's a new one.

How many of the 500 are US citizens?

I take it you want to concentrate on what the US might have done wrong and not question if it is different from what Canada has done.

I think the word for that is hypocrisy.

Torture for 3 or more Canadian Citizens was outsourced to Syria.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 12:09 AM

I take it 500 of that 600 are in Guantanamo.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: flattop
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 11:45 PM

According to the Royal Canadian Mounted Magpie, Canadians, per capita, are also more willing to pay up to one hundred bucks for creepy kiddy porn. Cops are looking for 103 Canucks but only 600 and some Americans in the latest case. Perhaps not enough Mudcat warmth for those nippy prairie nights.

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: Peace
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 06:53 PM

Your link leads to the Arar case. That is history. Do not muddy the waters with bullshit, Dickey. Canada by paying ten million has agreed it was wrong. The top cop resigned. That has got nothing to do with the other guys who may have been wronged by Canada and may not have. The Commission will establish Canada's degree of guilt. Now, back to Guantanamo with its 500 prisoners . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Give em shit, Canada
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 06:46 PM

What has Canada done?

"...Unfortunately this has already happened to three other Canadian citizens: Abdullah Almalki, Ahmad El-Maati and Muayyed Nureddin...."