Sitting At The Kitchen Table

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 03:13 AM

Fourteen years ago on March 15 we lost a very special young man. He was from Victoria, Australia in Shepperton. He came to Juneau the first time in 1990 and was here for about a year then went home for his only sister's wedding. He was back here a oouple of months later and the Juneau community took up with him again as though he'd never been gone.

He was vibrant, in love with life and it appeared, everything in it. The most remarkable thing about him, probably, was that whoever he was with, that is the person he was with. His energies were not scattered. He loved to dance - in bare feet- he leaped high and energized the dance practically by himself. He loved Australian wine and beer and complained that our bartenders were not aware that they were supposed to pour a full pint when they drew the tap. We loved him.

On March 15 1992, a Sunday, he went hiking up Mount Jumbo alone. He was tired of our long wet winter, and March 15 dawned crisp and cold. He wanted some fresh air. He went over to the house of his most special friend in Juneau and asked if she and her friend wanted to go climbing with him. Both of them had other plans and he left alone. It was already fairly late in a winter day- almost 3:00 - and they didn't set up a buddy system, as is common in these parts. So when he didn't come home that evening, no one knew for several days.

When his housemete returned from Europe on Thursday he could tell that no one had been in the apartment for a number of days. Alarmed, he took a photo of our friend around downtown asking whoever he met whether they'd seen him- that he was missing. At that point most of Tony's friends didn't know his housemate and we didn't know. We didn't know.

That evening I was playing for a dance as we usually did when a friend - a Mudcatter - came in. In a low voice she said in my ear, Tony is missing. He went up the mountain and didn't come back.

I've never forgotten my viseral reaction. I said, No. No. It's not true.

It was a really heavy time for us all.

Tonight we had a "Toiny Dance" with the money remaining from those days. We had raised more than $7,000 in just a very few days to bring his parents and two cousins over from Austraiia and for the cremation of the body.

When he died, he was 29 years old.

Tonight I miss him very much.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 12:37 PM

Hey, Ron:

I stand corrected. Or more accurately, I sit corrected. I just bought a DVD of The Body Snatcher with Boris Karloff for $7.99 from efilmic.con. I get E-mails from them often (by my choice) telling me which DVDs are on sale... they are always having sales, and the cost is usually anywhere from $6.99 to $8.99. I don't remember ever buying a DVD from them that wasn't on sale. Just a matter of waiting until movies I want are put on sale. Their DVDs that are not on sale are generally less expensive than amazon.com, but can go as high as over $20.00 (rare exceptions.)

Even seated, I can still say that it is a great website, and I've probably picked up over a dozen movies through time.

I saw The Body Snatcher when I was probably 11 or 12 years old with a buddy of mine. There was one scene in the movie that really cared the crap out of me... one of the most frightening movie moments of my life. I will know it's coming now, so I know that it won't have the same impact, but I'm looking forward to watching it. My wife Ruth doesn't like horro movies, so I'll watch it alone.

Ooooowheeeee-oooooh!

Better make some extra popcorn.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 10:50 AM

Scrumptious, Ron! Makes my day too. Bless you both.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 10:15 AM

You and Jan just made my month, Ron! You had mentioned that she was having health problems but I had no idea it was that serious. What joyful news!!!! Tell Jan that we are dancing in the streets up here in Derby!!!!!!

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: billybob
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 08:05 AM

Well done Jan, positive thoughts.
We are having a great day, I am work in the beauty salon we have, we are raising money for Dr Barnardo's. We have just waxed the legs of a young man who is running the London Marathon in three weeks time, raising loads of money today. I am amazed by the ladys who came to watch, they really enjoyed the poor lads pain.
If you would like to sponsor Andrew pm me and I will give you details.Billy and I and the staff are planning to go up to London and cheer him on, we will be by Tower Bridge if anyone else wants to join us!

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ron Davies
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 11:26 PM

Jerry--

efilmic.com sounds great. I'll have to check that out.

Some great news--Jan just saw her MD who had performed an amazing operation on her neck in December--replaced 3 crushed discs and fused 4 vertebrae--using a technique and some material only known in the last 2 years. (It was a near thing--we almost had another MD who would have been nowhere near as good.--but, after bragging about his skill, he bugged out.) And this is all on Blue Cross--no special plan.

Anyway, Dr. Cooney says Jan is his star patient--recovery far ahead of schedule. She's already back to work--often 10 hours a day (though I keep telling her she shouldn't be pushing it so much). She loves her job more than anybody I've heard of--the job is taking
care of kids. And--as you might imagine, she's in huge demand.

Without the operation, she was facing paralysis from the neck down (though we didn't know it at the time). She had started to experience numbness creeping down her face--and we did recognize that might well be serious. Now there is no danger of that--and she's enjoying life--and is full of life herself. Actually she always has been very lively and positive--and this is one of the reasons Dr. Cooney thought it would be successful. So I've learned there is something to the cliche of "positive thinking" after all.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 09:13 AM

DVDs.... another point of connection. My wife and I love the old movies and frequent Turner Classics often. But, many nights there isn't anything that we want to watch on dish tv, so I've built up a big library of DVS over the years. It's a lot less expensive than going to a theatre (and there aren't that many contemporary movies we want to see) you can watch in a bathrobe (which is frowned on in local theaters, for some reason) and the popcorn doesn't cost $4 a tub. If any of you are into watching (and buying) DVDs, click on efilmic.com. Your head will spin. Most of their DVDs are $8.99, with many on sale for $6.99. They have a hundred or so DVDs of classic movies... nothing released recently, and a limited list to choose from. But, they are all great titles. I went there initially because they have Song Of The South on DVD... the only legal source to buy it (the company is in Canada, where it is legal to sell.) I recently picked up a copy of The Informer, which I'm really looking forward to seeing again. Now you, Ron.. you sound like a man after my own heart. I know you'll be excited when you see what they offer.

Yesterday, I solved another Mystery Of The Reluctant Computer Software and printed up my first copy of the Handful Of Songs CD.
I have to do some final editing on the booklet and back cover, and I'll be in production. It will be a real accomplishment to finally release that album on CD after all these years. I think it's the best album I've done. My next project will be to release a CD I've already recorded and mixed, taken from older cassettes of my own songs, and some traditional material. I figure another month or so, and I'll have those three done. And then, I want to start work on a new folk album. I had to smile this morning when a working title came to mind..

Knights Of The Kitchen Table.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ron Davies
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 11:12 PM

Phot--

If you are looking at this thread, maybe you can tell us about the time you and Cllr made the valley ring literally--sounds like a good story (from your 13 Mar 2006 4:05 AM posting).

Jerry--

Jan and I are finding out that Amazon actually works pretty well to get DVD's. If you get 2, shipping is free (over $25) and of course the price is already low. We've decided that if we will ever in our lives want to watch a DVD 4 times, we figure it's worth buying (at about $15). So now we have Saturday Night at the Movies in our basement. And DVD's are so great--the extras are fascinating.

We just watched a Zorro--I think the most recent one-and among other things the DVD told how the sword-fights were done--for instance since the swords were actually aluminum, every clash of swords was dubbed in.   Fairly obvious, I suppose, but I'd never thought of that. The Robin Hood ( the classic with Errol Flynn) DVD had outtakes of stunts that didn't work right--as well as a Warner NIght at the Movies--with trailer, newsreel, musical short, and cartoon--and a studio blooper reel from the time of the movie (1938?)--and on and on. It's like being back at an old moviehouse, but with even more features.


About the weekend (finally)

I had a dynamite time. Wound up playing viola on Saturday with a stunningly talented duo who did a lot of Kate Wolf songs--including the Trumpet Vine-which of course made me think of this thread. They even invited me to throw in a second harmony on some songs--fortunately the bass harmony was still available--it's a lot easier than any other.

But you always wind up missing something. By doing Kate Wolf, I missed a lot of C & W, which I also wanted to do--love doing country duets especially. Too bad cloning is not an option. But I figure you take your opportunities when you have 'em--and I'd never met that couple before.

Then in the evenings we did all sorts of stuff--Irish, Hank Williams, gospel (black and white), Bob Wills, 19th century parlor songs (with a zither-which just perfectly captures the atmosphere for something like the Vacant Chair), drinking songs, Carter Family, John Prine, and others. We had a guitar, viola, autoharp, and clarinet also for various songs. Saturday night we wound up at the end doing unaccompanied stuff-- Silhouettes, Under the Boardwalk, Goodnight Sweetheart, and other doo-wop type stuff, and Mamas and Papas and Everly Brothers.

Unfortunately Jan wasn't in great shape, went to bed early (about 11) and missed the doo-wop etc. She told me the next day we should have started with doo-wop and Everly Brothers so she could have been there. But you really can't force a sing to go a certain way. Hope she'll be feeling better next time.

The weekend was somewhat what the impromptu sessions at the Getaway sometimes turn into (though the weekend lacked sea songs, by and large----the Getaway large collection of rousing singers wasn't there).

Roll on, Getaway.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: lady penelope
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 04:37 PM

Brilliant film. I saw the original stage play. That was downright scarey, but the film wins for getting all the music in.

Sometimes there's nothing that can 'upstage' (heh) a good sing. I find it cathartic, uplifting, inspiring, intense and exhausting all at once. Wouldn't be without it.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 07:02 AM

Sometimes it's just the shear pleasure of singing.

Last night my wife and I went to a wake for the Mother of our Pastor. She was in her mid-90's, and a feisty old woman right up until the end. We visited her a month or so ago and she was determined that we help her get up and walk, despite long ago having lost the strength in her legs to do it. B[[[[[[[[[[[[=[=--[[[[=-----------[p[=============================================================================================== (just spilled some oatmeal on my key board and was getting out from between the keys.)

Black Baptist wakes are often as lively as Irish wakes (without the beer.) Last night, the Men's Chorus that Joe, Frankie and I are in sang for two hours, without taking a break. That's a lot of songs. And, because we didn't have a practice, it meant that we did a lot of songs that we hadn't done in as long ago as a year. Our Director Dan would play the opening piano introduction and we'd all look around to see where they guy was who did the lead. There was a lot of folks what turned white momentarily last night, when they realized they were going to have to go up and sing lead on a song they hadn't sung in a year. Frankie sang lead on Nobody Knows The Troubles I've seen (and didn't sing it Nobody knows de troubles Obscene) and Two Wings, Joe sang Lord, Teach Me How To Rest, and I lead Trouble In My Way and There's A Leak In This Old Building (which I'd never sung before....) We were pulling old songs out of the hat, with Dan singing lead on several songs because the lead singer wasn't there (and Dan never sings lead.) It was quite a night. Whatever attitudes or beliefs Catters have, I'm sure that most people in here would have had a great time singing. It felt much like the shear pleasure of singing a whole program of sea chanteys, but with a different meaning for us.

When we finished, we all realized how tired we were. We sang standing, for two solid hours. And probably could have gone another hour..

Yes, Ron, there is absolutely no topic on this thread. Kinda like a conversation around a kitchen table. That was the whole point of starting this thread. Funny thing is, I went looking for a DVD of Amadeus yesterday because I too love the movie, and I think that my wife Ruth would enjoy it, as we visited so many places where he lived and wrote music on out trip to Europe last fall. I couldn't find it, but I picked up a widescreen copy of the new King Kong.

My tastes are nothing, if they aren't catholic. With a small "c."

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ron Davies
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 12:02 AM

It might be interesting to visualize what being "hoplessly" upstaged would be like--but it would be different from being hopelessly upstaged.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ron Davies
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 11:59 PM

Billy Bob--

That's just horrendous news about the pub in Sidford. I certainly have no idea about accomodations in Festival week in the area--but I bet that if you resurrect the thread about Sidmouth 2006--or possibly start a new one explaining the situation, there will be knowledgeable and helpful people responding.

WLD--

I agree, Amadeus is such a wonderful film on so many levels. One of my strongest memories of the film is how easy it was to sympathize with Salieri--who after all tried to do everything right--only to be hoplessly upstaged by this filthy-minded (based on fact, I undertand--his letters sure were often scatalogical)--arrogant youngster--just because that youngster was taking dictation from God--creating masterpieces was that easy for him. It must have been--to churn out so many in such a short time. Of course Schubert did pretty well too--in even less time.

Now I have Amadeus on DVD--really looking forward not just to the movie again--but to all the extras the DVD is bound to have.


Jerry--

Mozart may not have had to deal with the vagaries of electric instruments--but it sure must have been hideous being just about at the mercy of your patron. The first composer to beat this problem--thanks to the cult of the composer that started with him--was Beethoven. Since then, as you know, it's been "the public" you have to please if you want to make a living at music--which ain't easy either.   BIrth of the Modern (1815-1830), by Paul Johnson is a book I never get tired of re-reading--lots of information---and great stories about this development--and so many others. Paul Johnson has written a lot of great, factual but very vivid histories. And I find history so fascinating I'm not even tempted to read fiction.

It's so great to be in a thread where there's not even theoretically a topic.

But here it is--late again--had another rehearsal tonight--for a totally different concert. Hope to get back here tomorrow night--at least there's no rehearsal.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 05:26 PM

The excitement of electricity. Now, there's a thread title for you. While I've played acoustic instruments all of my life, I play electric guitar with the Messengers (in respect for tradition, and so that I can hear what I'm playing.) Yesterday morning, I plugged in my electric guitar to run through some of the songs, and much to my horror the sound kept cutting off. It must be all those times we've stepped on the guitar cable. So, I had to rush out to a neighboring town and buy another guitar cable. Then when we got to the nursing home, I set up my PA system to discover that two of the four inputs weren't working right. I have a separate amplifier for my guitar but I need three vocal mics. It took a lot of finagling to get three mics working, and they weren't well balanced. So, today I was back out, looking for a portable PA system I can run four mics off of. We have a couple of concerts coming up where I'll need decent sound equipment. Now I know where some of out income tax refund is going...

Not that I have any complaint about the PA system that just went on the fritz. I've had it close to 9 years and it's been lugged half way around the world. And I bought it used...

Think I'll get out my banjo and pick out a tune..

I bet Mozart never had to deal with this..

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: billybob
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 05:11 PM

Ron, we were so looking forward to meeting you in the middle bar in Sidmouth, however just got news that the pub that all my cousins and I were going to stay in in Sidford has burned to the ground.It was 14 th centuary, thatched roofed and a beautiful building...so sad.
So has anyone any ideas where eight family can book in together to enjoy the festival?We are all past camping, been there and worn the tee shirt as they say!
Past coffee, need a brandy!

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 09:54 AM

Guess we'll just have to do without you for awhile, Jimmy. Have a great trip with Jayne and your daughter. One of these times, you've got to swing by here and stop for a while at our kitchen table...

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 03:40 AM

I love that film Ron. When I first got the video . I just rewound and watched it again. and then again.

It got so many things right about a musicians life. The self absorption, the dodginess of most commercial proposals in a very speculative business, the fun of creativity........you don't have to be a genius like Mozart to live in that world.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 11:45 PM

"perfectly"

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 11:44 PM

Just got back from rehearsal. We're going to do the Mozart Requiem soon--one of my all-time favorite pieces. Since the film Amadeus I always envision parts of the movie when we do the piece. It's not often a film has such an impact that doing the music will recall the film. But there's a movement (Lachrymosa) which I believe is used while Mozart's body is carried to the paupers' grave, thrown in , and more lime is tossed in afterwards. Incredibly vivid--and the music now conjures up that scene every time we do it. Maybe it's the contrast between the beauty and glory of the music (the text also fits perfecly)--and the horror of the mass paupers' grave.

I meant to get back to this thread earlier but I didn't have the time to read it last night--and I like to read what's been said since I last said anything--I suppose it's trying to be well-informed--and not make stupid questions or repeat what somebody else has already said. Other threads, not as lively as this one, are much easier to keep up with.

Now, of course, it's late, and I'll be going upstairs to Jan. So, absurdly enough, I may have to wait til tomorrow night to get back to the discussion--or even say anything about the weekend--other than that it was wonderful--great singing, great stories, and great companionship.

Hope to be back at the table tomorrow.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: jimmyt
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 09:11 PM

Well, I am drinking up and pushing back my chair for a few days. I will be on holiday with JAyne and my daughter and son-in-law, but hope to check in from time to time if I can find a computer handy. I will enjoy the conversation when I get a chance to read it. See you all soon.   jimmyt

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Elmer Fudd
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 04:31 PM

Thanks for the strong java, Jerry. I needed that. The English muffin was some good, too. I agree that elders have earned the right to be a titch ornery. We whippersnappers can let those little zingers roll off our backs. Cute comment about the 105-years-young woman. I think it was William O. Douglas who remarked upon looking at a lovely lady, "Oh, to be eighty again!"

I read somewhere that a group of researchers studied a number of the cultures around the world known for longevity, looking for commonalities that might cause their people to live extraordinarily long, active lives. Was it something in their diets? Exercise? Environmental conditions? Often the societies were quite impoverished, with poor diets. The women had given birth to 10-15 children. The people worked very hard. So what was up?

To the surprise of the scientists, the one commonality among the various societies was that elders were revered. Old age was considered a desirable thing, and seniors had the highest status. There's a lesson in this for our youth-obsessed culture, in which people are afraid of growing old.

Elmer

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: GUEST,maire-aine
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 12:15 PM

What a delightful conversation. I'll try to drop by after our session tonight.

Maryanne

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 11:21 AM

That worked...

The first "date" that I took my wife on was to visit a woman in her mid-90's who was bed-bound on an upper floor apartment. She lived with her younger sister, who was in her upper 80's. Mother Turnage has since passed, and now we visit her sister, who is in her early 90's. Even though Mother Turnage was in her 90's and bed-ridden. she was very flirtatious when we came in. She wanted me to sit on her bed. She didn't even offer a place for Ruth to sit down. Ruth and I both got a good laugh out of that. There have been several times over the years when we've visited an elderly woman who was downright offensive to Ruth, and flirtatious to me. Once she said to me, "You can come in, but tell your wife to wait out in the hall."
I just ignore those kinds of comments, and so does Ruth. We think it's beautiful that people still want to be attractive, no matter how old and bed-ridden they might be.

My faorite story in that regard was when I visited at a nursing home many years ago where my Uncle was the Director and his wife the Office Manager. I was talking with them when this woman can rolling in at 90 miles an hour in her wheel chair... right over my Uncle Walt's foot. As soon as she was in the room, she dozed off for a minute. That was the way out conversation went. She'd say a few sentences, and then doze off for a couple of minutes. My Aunt Ruby asked her to tell me how old she was, as sh'ed just celebrated her birthday. She said "I'm 105 years old.. a man came in the other day and I asked him if could guess how old I was. When I told him that I was 105 years old, he said "You don't look a day over 100," and she beamed very becomingly.

Welcome to the table, Elmer.. I just fixed a big mug of coffee and a couple of pieces of English Muffin bread, toasted with Splenda and Cinammon on it. Ambrosia... I can throw another couple of slices of bread in the toaster and heat up a pot when you've got the time.

And, nice to see you this morning, billybob.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 11:12 AM

Hey, Elmer: Thanks for stopping by.

The elderly. Now there's something I can talk about forever. Or at least until next Thursday. But before I do that, I'm going to post this message. The Cat is acting up for me and I want to see if it will post this message..

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Elmer Fudd
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 10:34 AM

Hey there Jerry,

Didn't sleep too well last night, so I'd like to sit down at your kitchen table with a strong cup of coffee this morning. You are blessed to have a 104 year-old in your life. The elderly are great treasures who have been needlessly cast aside in our hyperactive "modern" world. I had a dear friend who lived until a couple of weeks past her 105th birthday. Her mind was as sharp as a tack until the end. When she felt her body slipping, she insisted that it was her time, and did not want to be kept alive with medical procedures. Although I miss her terribly, it is difficult to mourn when someone draws from a deep inner well of creativity and spirituality, is curious and excited about the world around her, yet has the wisdom to know when the gig is up.

When I grow up I want to be like her.

Elmer

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: billybob
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 09:16 AM

Gosh Jerry, what a shame this lady of 104 cannot join the table,what wonderful stories she could tell, what do you know about her life, she will have seen so many changes.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 08:55 AM

Just got a friendly PM from Weelittledrummer asking what's been going on in my life. I realized that the answer lies mostly in this thread. It's turned out to be a welcoming place to come for us to talk about just that... what's going on in our lives. Or, what's going on in our heads.

This afternoon, Joe, Frankie and I are going to sing in a nursing home for a church Mother (an honorary title in the black Baptist church) who celebrated her 104th birthday in February. There was a snowstorm that day and I wasn't able to get there when the Men's Chorus we all sing in sang at her party. So, Joe, Frankie and I are pulling off a surprise party for her. They're really excited about it at the nursing home because she has no idea that we're coming. No more excited than we are.

I'm looking forward to Ron Davies pulling up a chair for a coffee break today. So, how was your weekend, Ron?

And everyone else.

Ruth and I went to a Muslim Mosque's celebration honoring 8 women who have made a difference in the community... a great antidote for all the ugly news surrounding conflicts between the extremists of religious sects. The food was good, I ate too much, and the company was good, too. It's time that people of good will step forward and express love for each other. That's always true.. but especially true in these times. My wife Ruth's two sons (and now mine) are Muslim, her daughter (and now mine) is a Baptist minister and Pastor of a church, my oldest son is Catholic and my youngest is Agnostic and a member of a Unitarian Church. We got a spiritual United Nations all in the same family. And we all love and respect each other's faith.

That's how it's supposed to be.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: billybob
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 06:33 PM

Just sat down at the table, today is my daughters birthday,sitting here remembering the day she was born and looking forward to the grandchild due in September. Yesterday was Mothers Day here in the UK, I spent the day with my daughter and her husband, my son and his beautiful girl friend,my mother ,father, brother and of course Billy. How blessed am I!
And now I can sit and listen to the talk round the table,carry on folks, I will just sit back listen and enjoy.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 08:34 AM

The thread ain't dead, jimmy. This thread is about anything anyone wants it to be. The harmony I'm most interested in is between people, and you bring everything to that.

One of the things that has struck me these last few months is how different retirement is to what it's usually thought to be. Maybe for some people, retirement is spent watching tv and planting flower beds with supper at McDonald's. But that's certainly not an accurate generalization. What has surprised me about retirement is that for every door that closes with diminishing health or resources, two open. It's a matter of recognizing the doors and walking through them. I've felt that particularly, these last few months in my own life. I'm sure there are other Catters who are retired who have discovered the same thing. Those, like you and Jayne, Jimmy who are still highly engaged in a career have more to look forward to in retirement than you realize.

For me, finally taming the wild computer and recording software has opened many new doors for me. The new insights into harmony (new only for me, and obvious for others) makes singing as a group completely new and exciting. Revisiting books long since read and half forgotten, and discovering new writers is a return to the excitement and refreshment of literature.

For some people, getting older is a time of gradual shutdown. It doesn't have to be that way. If you have good health, it's easy to step through those new doors. If your health is bad, there are some who have the bravery and hope to find ways to go through the door, even if they're wheel chair bound.

It's all in the attitude..

And as I said... this is a kitchen table... conversation is open to all, and listening is the other half of a conversation not to be minimalized..

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: jimmyt
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 07:31 AM

Well, I think I have done it again! Killed another thread! Sorry folks, but when I join in, it seems to be the death knell for a great discussion! Jerry, you should't have invited me! grin

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: jimmyt
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 08:51 PM

Yeah, Neamanson. It is pretty straight forward for 2 reasons. Melodies that you are familiar with, and predictable chord progressions. A bit like the easiest way to learn to ad lib instrumentally is on a straight blues progression. You know where it is going all the time. Try to follow celtic music if you want to go batty trying to predict harmonic progression. It is totally unpredictable to our American ears and does not dwell on the 1,4, 1, 5, 5(7th) stuff that we sort of know at a primitave level. Celtic harmony is frequently 1, 7 ,1 sort od pregression that is a bit like having a staircase with the steps spaced randomly. But Gospel is definately a nice place to get harmonies locked in your head.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 08:12 PM

I think that the old gospel music really came out of group singing, either in church or in the living room. Wherever the individual song originated, I think that they were tempered in the experience of singing them together. Contemporary black gospel (at least) comes out of mass choirs to a great extent, but the musical influences are less the old style of singing than hip hop and contemporary R&B. funny the way things evolve... rhythm and blues and soul music came out of black gospel, and now contemporary gospel is coming out of R&B and hip hop. Not Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Fats Domino or the Moonglows. Definitely not James Brown or Tina Turner. Somewhere along the way, R&B got smoothed out and lost its individuality... probably about the time that corporate motivations over-rode creative ones.

I was kidding my son Pasha the other day when we were working on refinishing floors and he had a contemporary R&B station on. I said that if you eliminated all songs that had "ooh," or "baby" in them, you'd have trouble coming up with enough songs to make a top 40.

But, the old southern gospel, black or white had straightforward melodies and chord progressions and simple harmonies. There were also a lot of call and response songs, and songs where just one word would be changed in a verse, and it would be sung again. Plenty of time to pick up the harmonies.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Naemanson
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 06:32 PM

Would you say that gospel music is easier to make harmonies on? I find, when listening to gospel, that I can actually come up with harmony lines. This is something I can not do with most other styles. Why is that I wonder?

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: David C. Carter
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 02:19 PM

We were not known for "Twining with our Mingles",that's for sure!Probably why we rocketed to oblivion!

A P

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 02:07 PM

LOL, David!

I knew Janette Carter and loved her music, and her family's. The Carter family is the bedrock of much of my music. Maybe you were that "other" Carter Family I heard about? I love Maybelle's chunka chunka rhythm. If only they'd done some Mozart... I would have loved to have heard them. Maybe that's why one of their cousins was named Amadeus.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: David C. Carter
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 01:58 PM

Jerry,my family were never "clunky!" well maybe just a wee bit!And they certainly were never accused of being "subtle".
You didn't hear my mother play the banjo,a sight for sore ears,I can tell you!

I'll get me banjo
David

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: jimmyt
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 01:14 PM

By the way, I have, in my mind at present, writing an entire piece for musical theater named HARMONY, which will feature all of the different voicings from chant forward, through our modern harmonies, barbershop, etc. sort of a Music APpreciation course on stage! It is still in the very early thought stage, but I just know it is a do-able idea. WIsh me luck!

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: jimmyt
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 01:10 PM

Jerry, you forget more about music every day than I will ever know. It is in your heart and soul. I always approached music aurally even when I was a little kid.   In the 4th grade I got a trumpet and joined the school band program. Even before we got off the first page of the Belwin Band Builder book, I had learned to play three notes,E,( first two fingers), G (open) and C (open) I figured out that this was the theme of "In the Mood" the great old Glenn Miller song. Within a couple days I found out an amazing discovery for a 4th grader. If I started on low C, and played the same pattern, but made it CEG instead of EGC, I played a part that I KNEW was a companion to the "melody" I really didn't know what harmony was per se but I could "hear" the melody as I played this rudimentary harmony.

Well, that pretty much was all I needed to run with the ball. I always resisted learning to read and am still a poor reader, but Harmony just made sense to me in a very elemental way. I still get more out af a beautiful chord progression than I ever do from the melody line or the words to a song. I just enjoy the "Fabric" of music, the harmonic relationships.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 11:17 AM

Thanks for your imput, Jimmy. It's always a pleasure listening to someone who knows what he's doing. While you are far more musically sophisticated than I am, it's at least encouraging to see that you build harmony lines from chord to chord. I will most likely never be able to approach arranging the way that you do, because I don't have the background to do it. I don't even understand what you're talking about.. :-) I just admire folks what knows what they're doing. I have to do things by ear. Fortunately, I've had singers to work with who had a good ear for harmony and the "arranging" has been a group process. Kind of a "That doesn't sound right.. let's try this... oh, that sounds good!" Or, "That's even worse!, let's try something else." If anything, I function as a harmony policeman, stopping the guys when I hear something that doesn't sound right. Again, coming back to the chord helps to find where the harmony has gone astray.

Hopefully, someone who knows more than I do will come in and respond to your post, Jimmy..

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: jimmyt
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 10:26 AM

Good stuff here! On arrangements, I try to write out the melody first. Then go back and lay down the chords at the right places, usually written if root position (CEG), knowing that if necessary I can change the chord to 1st inversion(EGC) or 2nd inversion (GEC) if it fits the 'voicings. THen I write the bass line which has the usual jumps in it. From there it is pretty much a connect-the-dots as the one or 2 inner harmonies are comprised of the missing note from the triad. Obviously if the song requires a really close harmony with lots of trash chords MAjor 7ths, sixths or ninths like you hear in the blueeyed do-wop I do, it requires a bit more tweaking to keep from having the 3 big problems I hear in poor arrangements, 1 odd lines in the inner parts, 2 parallel 5ths, 3 missing part, ie no third of the chord so it sounds like Gregorian chant on that note. Mind you, all of these issues I also see used for EFFECT by good arrangers, but it is a bit like painting, you need to be able to draw a picture of a horse first, then you can make the horse look odd with cubism. Well I have rambled on enough about that, but would like your thoughts ! jimmyt

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: lady penelope
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 09:55 AM

It's more in the tone of various accents. You pick up on the tone of a voice and that can vary what sounds good as the next note along..... I dunno if I'm saying this in a coherant fashion.

I guess it's also a case of what you're used to. I find english harmonies straightforward, but then that's what I grew up with.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 07:06 AM

Interesting comments, Lady Penelope. When Colin Kemp has visited here and stayed with us there would be times when he'd start speaking rapidly and I couldn't catch everything he was saying. When he did that, I'd jokingly tell him, "Speak English, Colin!" There are words where the accent falls on a different symbol in the two countries, and that will have an affect of phrasing (although not necessarily on harmony.)

From my perspective, American harmonies are not more subtle than English.. just more varied. That makes sense, because as the movie says, "This is a big country." It's harder to say what American harmony is. If I had to make a copmarison (And it should take 30 seconds for someone to shoot this down,) I'd compare English harmony with bluegrass harmony.. not because they sound at all alike, but because they seem to be pretty much "all worked out." I wish there was a better way to describe that. In bluegrass, you don't have to figure out where your harmony line is (or the bass runs on guitar.)
Somebody already figured it out for you fifty years ago. It seems much the same in English harmony (again an overgeneralization.) There seem to be some distinctive chords that are protable from song to song. (I really enjoy English harmony a lot, and don't think of it as less subtle, by the way.)

When Colin, Theresa, Noreen and Sussex Carole (and Terry) have been here, they've sung with the Messengers, and it's been a great deal of fun. Sea chantey singing and black gospel seem to mesh very naturally, as far as harmonies are concerned... pretty straightforward four part harmonies. The rhythms may be different, but Colin would make a fine bass for the Gospel Messengers. And Joe could handle sea chanteys just fine.

Interesting to get your perspective, Penelope...

Jerry

What could be clunkier and less subtle than the Carter Family? And I love them..

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 10:25 PM

People, it has been grand being here UNDER THE TABLE all this time just listening like crazy to all the music and the talk. (Bet you never noticed I was down there!? Right?)

It reminds me of the time when I was about 20 years old and me and a couple of friends would go into the bar at Second City in Chicago---circa 1961. The talk and the camaraderie down there was simply grand. Several times that year, when I had nothing much better to do, I'd wander in there and order some food and a Coke--since I was too young to drink. They didn't seem to mind as long as I stuck to soft drinks. Del Close was down there holding court then--and Nelson Algren, writer of 'Man With The Golden Arm' too. The conversations were mesmerizing and they'd let a kid say something once in a while too. One night Algren kept after me to have a beer but I didn't want to get anyone in trouble--especially myself. He'd had several already I yhink, and he just slid his own beer down the bar to me and winked at the bartender--who turned away exasperated. No way was he gonna argue with the pretty well known writer. (I actually didn't know much about the guy then.)--- Sure, I'd had beer before, but that was actually the first beer I ever had sitting at the bar in a real saloon. ------ After that I read his books and found out who that cantankerous surly guy was.----
Them are real fond memories from another kitchen table that really wasn't one at all. Seems like a dream all this time later.

If youll let me get up from bein' under here, it's about time I headed to the john...

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 10:00 PM

I'll pass along my regards, Brett. I've done several of the Gospel In Black And White Workshops I host with the Beans as the "white" gospel. They were a delight to work with on the gospel album that I never released... no fault of theirs, as their singing was right on the money. They really opened my eyes to the whole process of working out harmonies when they worked on my gospel album, too.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Naemanson
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 08:07 PM

Ah, The Beans. After Dave Parry died (a terrible shame, that) I shared a stage with them at a memorial concert. That was a great experience. Next time you see any of them tell them Brett Burnham remembers them and wishes them well. I doubt they'll remember me. At the concert I did a recitation of C. Fox Smythe's Ships That Pass. They might remember that.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: lady penelope
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 05:14 PM

I know what you mean about 'english' harmonies. From the viewpoint of being english, I listen to american stuff and notice that the harmonies that tend to be prevelant (well at least in the stuff I've heard) are noticeably different to those used over here.

I think it has to do with accents. How you speak a sentence and how you sing it are not so different unless you have a different accent and working vocabulary. I reckon that people pick up on the sounds they're used to. Also the 'english' harmonies are more straightforward. Or, if you like, less subtle..... :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 02:29 PM

Tape recorders are a help indeed, Terry. And when you sing harmony, people can get very possesive of "their" note. I did a gospel album many years ago and used The Beans (Jim Bean is a sometimes visitor in here.) When I'd hear them working out harmonies, I thought that it was very humorous. Talk about pride of possession.

You're right too, Terry about instruments carrying harmony too, as other "voices." I use my guitar to fill in "holes" or strengthen the lead. And when we have it right, I love to stop playing guitar and just listen to the voices. Nothing tops four (or three) voices in strong harmony when you hit that perfect blend and it becomes one sound. At least, not for me.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 02:15 PM

I'll try again ! Jerry - you're mention of the bantam reminded me of Jake Thackeray 's Bantam Cock - Very Funny and definately NOT politically correct !
When I was involved with Fools Gold , we did straight three part harmony , with all sorts of instrumental backing ! I had always 'had a go' at harmonies in choruses sometimes even getting away with it . With the Gold , it was a different ball game as the other two members had been singing harmony for EVER ! In rehearsal there would be a cry of " WHOA !! You're on MY note there" - OK , whats the melody note ? YOUR Harmany is what ? OK , the chord means I want something like X to fit . - Sounds long winded , but as we all three had portable tape recorders , we had an aural reminder of each rehearsal , so it was easy for me to memorise the harmony I needed . A steep learning curve , but it DID work , and there were a lot worse semi pro groups on the local scene .

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 11:08 AM

Hey, Terry:

Occasionally, I wished that I had a formal musical education so that I could express myself more intelligently. There's a particularly British/English harmony that I can recognize and yet can't identify what it is about it that makes it sound like the Copper Family, not the Carter Family. Friends of mine took one of my very American songs, Milwaukee/St. Paul and gave it an, English sounding harmony. I thought that they did a nice job on the song (they recorded it) and appreciated their support. But why did they make it sound English? It's about a railroad line in the upper Midwest.

Two things I notice when there are sing-alongs at Folk Festivals in this country. That English harmony thing is very prevalent. I actually like the sound of it a LOT, but it gives a different feel to the songs. They all start to sound like sea chanteys.

The other thing I find, interestingly, is that when The Gospel Messengers are leading singing in a folk festival workshop or concert in a folk club, the audience likes to hold out the notes at the end of the line ... kinda savor them. Black gospel is often very rhythmic and the way I describe it is that you "snap" the last word of a line, rather than hold it out. There's often a subtle tug of war going on when we sing for a folk audience, trying to get them to get into the rhythm of the music rather than slowing down the rhythm to fit their usual style of singing. It's a challenge at times, but great fun, too. Once you accept that it's a different style of singing and get into it, it's very liberating and invigorating. Wouldn't work very well on a sea chantey or murder ballad, but it really drives the music home in black gospel.

Always nice to hear from you, Terry

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 06:43 AM

I HATE Computers !!! Just wrote a real screed about Harmony singing ,
only to have my electronic monster eat it and NOT send it of to Mudcat Central ! I'll try again later - Going to get my crossword now (Good for the Torygraph) - Be trying again later ! In fact , start the kettle for a strong coffe and I will be right back !

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: billybob
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 05:58 AM

Morning all, thought it was time to stop work for a coffee ,at last Spring has come to England , after weeks of very cold weather yesterday was dreary,wet and grey but this morning the sun is shining , the sky blue and the temperature is warm.Looking out of my window people walking by are smiling and chatting in the street, happy to spend a few minutes to gossip and put the world to rights.
I may go for a walk by the sea at lunchtime.We are only a few hundred yards from the beach but never go there in the winter, one sunny day and the place comes alive.
Loving all your talk about harmony, I can do it but have no idea how!
Used to sing in the church choir when I was young so maybe old memories from a time long gone?
Coffee smells good.