BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Bobert
Date: 19 May 08 - 01:03 PM

Sorry...

Next time get a written job description and number of hours your employer expects from you for a given salary... Then, at least, if you quit you might have some remedies...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 19 May 08 - 03:38 AM

There comes a time when just wiping the dirt from your shoes and turning your back on a situation is the best course of action. It sounds very much as if this is the place you've reached and you need to let it go. Take with you the lessons you've learned and the good memories (should there be any) and leave the rest to the garbage man.

Take care dear and bon chance!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 19 May 08 - 01:50 AM

one stage of your working life has ended, another starts, so good luck in your job searching.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 May 08 - 12:29 AM

Ah, well, Linn, you are well shut of it all. Time to look forward...letting this last part of your yearly cycle pass you by...something temporary to tide you over until a better offer comes along and I know one will!:-)

luvyakat

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Bee
Date: 19 May 08 - 12:17 AM

One or two makes an 'uncommon' number?

Oooo, and a bit of good ol' time religion thrown in for good measure!

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Bee
Date: 18 May 08 - 09:02 PM

I hear ya, Linn. Although in my experience, most of the stress has come from the publisher/owner/s. I know also that distribution here can be expensive, depending on your target market, but in rural areas, Canada Post and local small printers can really be the small publisher's friend, plus most local stores let you leave stuff free.

My biggest problem with most publishers was getting them to pay me - and then running for the nearest bank to cash the cheque in hopes there'd still be money in the account. The guy I worked for three years for was completely untrustworthy and continually broke. The one I freelanced every month for five years had the money, but hated paying me - he thought I should be so honoured by the work I should do it free. Another one laid me off after a year of part time because they got a free student to train. Then there was the young, extremely handsome, amusing, and exotic Ferrari driving Italian I freelanced for over several months - almost worth not getting paid so I could listen to his dulcet flattery and ridiculously funny excuses.

Going back to full time at the daycare was a financial relief - no worries about getting paid on time!

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 May 08 - 07:30 PM

Every job I ever did the almost the first thing I did was join a union, and that's advice I'd give to anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 18 May 08 - 07:16 PM

I'm decidedly waaaay too burnt out on publications (especially having to do it all myself) to even consider starting a publication right now. And I know enough from the one I just left to know that the expense of distribution is what kills ya. Besides delivering the free magazine to all the locations, supermarket locations in particular have to be paid for the privilege of being a drop.

No, I cringe at the thought right now.

I'm looking for something less stressful -- like brain surgery or bomb defusing.

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Bee
Date: 18 May 08 - 06:36 PM

BG, have you considered putting out some kind of small publication of your own? I'm thinking of what publishing type people around here often do for cash - some successfully, some not so much - and that is to put out what is essentially a carrier of local advertising with a bit of local interest stories/photos/recipes/art/poems thrown in for good measure. One lady in this area has had one running for at least twenty years, and I know enough about the business and the costs involved that I know she's making a minor killing from her advertisers. It's delivered free to homes in the appropriate area, is small enough to be easily read without taking up half the table top, and people keep them around all month in order to have local bus. phone numbers handy.

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: fat B****rd
Date: 18 May 08 - 03:40 PM

Sorry to hear your news. BG. Good luck in the future. Take care. ATB from Charlie fB

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 May 08 - 03:39 PM

Age discrimination is, as you noted, incredibly difficult to prove, or even to get to a hearing. Discrimination cases in general are fairly "lucrative" for lawyers, since most forms of discrimination permit "treble damages" as punitive compensation to the injured. The punitive damages can go almost entirely to legal counsel, so some lawyers are willing to take a case on "contingency."

The US Federal statutes against age discrimination DO NOT PERMIT a claim for punitive damages, so the most that can be claimed is "actual loss" which leaves nothing for paying the attorneys. It's extremely difficult to even find an attorney willing to discuss an age discrimination claim, and can be incredibly expensive to the victim to pursue one.

If there happens to be an applicable state law conditions might be more favorable; but I don't know of a state that has an age-discrimination statute more favorable to the victim than the Federal law.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: maeve
Date: 18 May 08 - 03:35 PM

Yes, Linn, and in the meantime you are growing stronger and continuing to recover from that very stressful situation.

I am happy you are free from it.

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 18 May 08 - 02:45 PM

I don't think disability has anything to do with it -- I didn't break my arm until well after I gave my notice. And, when asked at the hearing, my employer said that I would have been welcomed back to the same miserable job after I recovered enough to work again.

I don't think any local lawyer would take it pro bono -- whether I had legitimate reasons for quitting is just too iffy, and the chairman chose to find in favor of the employer as there is a tendency to in New Hampshire.

I think the "would any reasonable person quit this job" is pretty accurate, but, again, proving it would be difficult. I really wish he'd sent OSHA to take a look see at the offices, though.

Even unemployed and broke, I'm VERY glad I'm away from the job that sucked me dry and totally burnt me out. I've recovered enough to feel creative again -- been writing a lot lately, too.

Now AGE discrimination may be playing a part in my difficulty finding a replacement job...but that's almost impossible to prove, too. (Back in the '70s I filed a sex discrimination case against an employer -- the Maine Human Rights Commission agreed, but we couldn't prove it.)

Ah well, the right job will show up at the right time. Or SOMETHING will!

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 May 08 - 02:14 PM

This looks like disability discrimination to me. Can you find a pro bono lawyer Bat Goddess?

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 May 08 - 02:09 PM

Aw shucks Linn, sorry about that.
I'm sure you will find something soon.


G

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 18 May 08 - 01:54 PM

Well, I got the appeal finding yesterday -- they found against me; I voluntarily left my employment for reasons that they did not find attributable to my employer. NOW I find out that what I should have done was left at the time the magazine (and me with it) was purchased last year, instead of trying to find an escape job while I was working under such crazy conditions. Sigh.

Basically they've denied me unemployment benefits until after I work five weeks (doesn't have to be consecutive) at $25 more per week than what my benefit rate would be. So, if I find a short term contract or temp job or if a job doesn't work out, I can collect.

Ah well. Now I can just get on with trying to find a job!

(I'm still going to one of the mandatory workshops at NHES tomorrow morning, though, and probably seeing my rep there afterwards because I have a couple questions. And I can still use their resources, etc., of course. )

Thanks again, everyone, for your good thoughts and advice.

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 03 May 08 - 02:53 PM

The new owner, despite promises, never discussed terms of employment with me when he bought the magazine and me along with it -- and unsafe work conditions also added to my stress level.

But ultimately if fighting the denial of benefits would end up consuming as much time and energy as working the insane job and contribute to keeping me from finding a new one, it's not worth it. It may not be fair, but my object is in getting another job -- especially since I've had no income since December (just outgo -- including the COBRA health insurance which I needed because of my arm).

I really couldn't read the guy -- and being very bureaucratic and legalistic may end up working in my favor. Who knows...and I won't be "surprised" no matter what the outcome.

And, no matter what, I can still collect if I work 5 weeks (doesn't have to be consecutive) for $25 more than what my weekly unemployment benefits would be.

Thanks for all of your good thoughts and advice!

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Slag
Date: 02 May 08 - 11:31 PM

Yes BG, there are lawyer types who deal with nothing but cases like yours and it sounds like you have a winner. A percentage of something is worth a whole lot more than a lot of nothing. Good luck in your endeavors and keep a good, positive attitude. Don't let the *&^&^%^%& grind you down!

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 May 08 - 08:11 PM

The common law of employment implies a duty of good faith between employer and employee. Since it is a common law duty I would expect the same to be arguable in the USA. You have found it difficult to obtain new work because of the psychological injuries done to you by your former employer when they treated you in ways that were incompatible with that duty.

Worth a go. Pro bono or contingency lawyer?

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Hollowfox
Date: 02 May 08 - 05:18 PM

I only just read the thread, but I figure that a $%@#-reduction candle series might come in handy (Like the old joke says, "It couldn't hurt."). I'll start it up when I get home tonight.

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: SINSULL
Date: 01 May 08 - 09:45 PM

Linn - Have I lost my mind or did you make an appearance in the Tavern asking about cleaning out the muck in the Jell-O pit? I hate my thyroid crazies - is this one?
Meantime, back on the job front, my department was eliminated and I have landed in the middle of a potential minefield. Either I will survive and do very well or I will join the unemployment lines in 3 - 9 months.
Give Tom a hug and be glad you have him. Let's laugh and sing together sometime soon.
None of this is important but sometimes it is hard to keep that in mind.
Love,
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: GUEST,Jim Dixon
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 02:50 PM

This is probably too late to help you, Bat Goddess, but it might help someone else reading this thread: I highly recommend a book called "The rights of employees and union members: the basic ACLU guide to the rights of employees and union members" by Wayne N. Outten, Robert J. Rabin, Lisa R. Lipman.

I read it a long time ago, and there is probably a newer edition available than the one I read. As I remember it, you CAN sometimes qualify for unemployment benefits after quitting a job, and the criterion is: Would a reasonable person quit a job under those circumstances? An example they gave was: A husband was transferred to another city, so his wife quit her job so she could go with him. The ruling was, yes, a reasonable person WOULD quit under those circumstances, so she did qualify, even though it was no fault of the wife's employer. Surprising, but true.

Of course, it's possible the law has changed.

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 02:34 PM

In the UK I think you'd be advised to argue that this was a case of "constructive dismissal", because of the way your employers treated you (eg being required to do unpaid extra hours.) But then it's a different legal system - eg "the tribunal chairman made a point that it is not illegal for an employer to not give vacations or paid holidays" - it would be illegal here.

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: wysiwyg
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 02:23 PM

Linn, usually an employer will show up on the first round or two of appeals, but seldom on subsequent rounds. If there is another appeal possible, I hope you will try it.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 02:14 PM

Well, the hearing is over. It is to be judged by a very difficult to read, legalistic bureaucrat.

The state's position is that I voluntarily left my employment without a reason attributable to my employer -- and only reasons directly attributable to my employer were to be considered.

My argument was that my terms of employment, despite my numerous requests, were never discussed with me by the new owner. (I worked for the original owner for 2 years, then I was sold along with the magazine in Feb. 2007.) I'm not sure whether it was even legal for me to have been paid on salary. It wasn't an executive position; I had no employees under me. The tribunal chairman made a point that it is not illegal for an employer to not give vacations or paid holidays. (I got them, sort of - I just had to do all the work on unpaid time because the deadlines only changed to get shorter.) I added in the unsafe working conditions -- only one narrow staircase as an exit (the other "exit" was a door on the other side of a work station into a private apartment on the other sideof the building) and wires were strung all over to cope with a totally inadequate electrical system. This all was actually the landlord's problem -- my employer was planning on leaving when the lease was up. The job was affecting my health, too. Burnout and desperation is like that. My employer's representatives also said that if I hadn't quit, I would have been welcomed back after the 3 months it took to be able to work and drive again.

And yes, one of the owners and the office manager were there to contest everything -- not only did I have the audacity to leave after being abused, burnt out and sucked dry, but they don't want to be charged and have their unemployment insurance rate go up.

I won't know the decision for about two weeks.

Ah well. The worse that happens is things stay as they are now -- I can't collect until I've worked 5 weeks (doesn't have to be consecutively) for $25 more than what my unemployment benefit would be. And who knows, though -- the tribunal chairman might find in my favor.

When I gave my notice I knew I'd be denied benefits but I was truly desperate. I was planning on grabbing anything -- probably passport processing, until a more appropriate job came along. The broken arm definitely threw a spanner in the works. I even spent about a month after the surgery beating myself up for having not foreseen that I'd break my arm and make my escape that way. (Then I would have had an income and wouldn't have had to pay for my insurance.)

Sooo...I drove home via the beach. It's raining and the surf was up. Cool but pretty drive along a rocky coast. Stopped at Jenness Beach and listened to the waves and tried not to think. Then drove down to North Hampton, turned around and drove back to Rye along the beach route, then went up to Rte. 1 and got a chocolate malt at Lago's Lone Oak -- that's my drug of choice and I've been deprived since last October.

And then I'm going to watch "Funny Lady" -- I'm wiped emotionally from the hearing and physically from physical therapy this morning. And THEN I'll apply for a couple more jobs and send resumes to a few more people who need to know that I'm looking. The right job will show up at the right time (but I hope it will be soon).

Thanks for all your good thoughts!

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 02:00 PM

Suspense is killing me!

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: gnu
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 01:59 PM

Enquiring minds are still hoping for good news....

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 12:46 PM

Good luck. Unemployment offices are one of the modern public institutions that most remind me of subject matter that Charles Dickens might turn to, were he still alive and writing today (the other is the Post Office). Here's hoping you come out like Oliver Twist and not like Sydney Carton. ;-D

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: kendall
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 12:19 PM

May the fleas of a thousand Camels infest the crotch of the S.O.B. who spoils your day, and may his arms be too short to scratch!

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 12:09 PM

Sending retroactive positive vibes your way, my dear. Let us know how it all turns out!

Allison

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: fat B****rd
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 12:00 PM

Give 'em Hell, Linn. Good Luck from Charlie in Dunfermline.

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Janie
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 11:54 AM

Good luck with it, Linn.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 11:52 AM

Well by now you ought to be done with the hearing, darlin'. I have been giving thanks for a successful appeal and look forward to hearing so from you. You deserve that and more, esp. a new job that you love and which pays decently with bennies!

luvyakat

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: ClaireBear
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 10:40 AM

Thinking of you and saying a prayer in far-off California. Good fortune, come a-callin'!

Your last-year Santee,
Claire

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: gnu
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 10:36 AM

Ditto ditto ditto and ditto!

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 10:33 AM

what everyone else said!

good luck go with all your careful preparation

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 10:31 AM

I used to work for a Dept. of Employment, but that was so long ago that cavemen were required to provide their own clubs for hunting. But the primary standard for collecting benefits, then, was that were you unemployed through no fault of your own, and able and available to work (with a few ifs and ands thrown in). So if you were still employed at the time of injury, and you are now recovered, and willing and available for work (and are still unemployed), you almost certainly would have been eligible for benefits, notwithstanding that you had given notice.

I remember finding for claimants who had given, say, two weeks notice, but were terminated earlier by the employer. Why? Because the employee was willing and available to work at the time of termination.

I hope those standards still apply, and you win your appeal.

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: bfdk
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 10:23 AM

Best of luck with it, Linn, go get what's rightfully owing to you!

Bente

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 10:09 AM

I thought it was the State of NH who were denying her because they're a bureaucracy and it's their job.

Linn, breathe. I'll be here thinking victorious thoughts at you. (Just don't try to high-5 anybody with that wing if you win.)

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: wysiwyg
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 09:25 AM

My experience has been that every time I've had to appeal, I've won, and gotten my benefits reinstated.

Correctamundo, so relax and present your case in the intelligent, reasonable manner you have, and remember that we love you.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 09:15 AM

Well, I wish you well but just go on and do it. The company is opposing it because a) you left them and b) they don't want to pay unemployment, but it's mostly a) you left them.

Remember that you've got to take your written proof with you. Seems too that whatever health insurance the company had would have taken care of your broken arm, too....

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: ranger1
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 09:15 AM

Thinking of you and sending warm fuzzies your way...

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Azizi
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 08:22 AM

I also hope that things go well for you at that hearing, and that you eventually will find the employment position that you desire.

Positive vibrations,

Azizi

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: GUEST,Esther
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 08:08 AM

Best wishes with it Linn, really hope it works out. Your approach was that of honesty. Here in the UK the norm is to sign on sickness benefit first, NOT unemployment. Illnesses can range from Depression to lack of mobility. Once on sickness benefit you transfer to Incapacity benefit,then make your applications for Disability Living Allowance and Mobility. You would probably end up with a better monthly income than your previous salary.

Thoughts with you.

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 08:03 AM

Best wishes from Northamptonshire, UK - any one of those would have been a matter for the Employment Tribunal, here.

Hope it goes well for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: maeve
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 08:01 AM

Thinking of you, Linn. I hope all goes well for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 07:57 AM

Yes, best of luck from not-so-sunny Ireland too. At 4 pm this afternoon Greenwich time, good energy will be flying across the sea to you. Be sure to let us know how it all went.

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: jacqui.c
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 07:55 AM

Good luck Linn - you deserve it.

Subject: RE: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Hawker
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 07:47 AM

bestest luck Linn, from sunny Cornwall.
Cheers Lucy x

Subject: BS: Wish Me Luck -- Appeal Hearing
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 07:36 AM

Please wish me luck this morning -- my appeal hearing with NH Employment Security is at 11 a.m., Eastern Daylight Savings Time (in Portsmouth, NH, USA).

As many of you are aware, l turned in my resignation from the Real Estate Guide the end of last November and I gave my employer three weeks notice. After a relentless three year rollercoaster ride of bi-weekly deadlines without having any back-up, on salary with no hope of overtime, paid holidays for which I'd be expected to put in unpaid hours to get the book to the printer on time, no official vacation time and very limited time that I could take off at all, and then only by doing all the work beforehand, not to mention actually doing two full time jobs -- ALL the production and ALL the advertising sales, and having spent 6 months of last year trying to find a replacement job, I decided the only way I WOULD find that replacement job was to leave the magazine.

Then, the morning after my last issue was safely to the printer and several days before my last day of employment, I broke my upper left humerus requiring surgery to fix it with a plate and screws.

So...totally out of commission for almost three months, being able to neither work nor drive a car.

When I could work again I applied for Unemployment benefits and was, as I expected, pro forma denied benefits because I had quit the job. So I, of course, filed an appeal.

This morning is my appeal hearing where I lay out my reasons for leaving the job. My experience has been that every time I've had to appeal, I've won, and gotten my benefits reinstated. We've had very little income since December and winning this appeal would limit any feeling of desperation while finding a suitable job. (I'm afraid that last year while interviewing, despite my best intentions my desperation and burnt-outedness showed.)

Please send good thoughts in my direction! Mudcat energy has so often helped before.

Thank you!
Linn