BS: McCain does not speak for McCain

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: Stringsinger
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 05:04 PM

McCain doesn't "speak" period.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 11:37 PM

Dick - I agree with this one completely. It's never made sense to me. Maybe if you sent in a a million dollars, or something, but the way it is the poorest people pay the most.
                      Of course, that's the way Ronald Reagan wanted it, and there are still people out there who think he was wonderful.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 10:03 PM

Can anyone explan to me the logic of having a ceiling on Social Security contributions? it seems that them that has, shall get.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 09:55 PM

'"McCain, in front of six different audiences when asked about tax hikes, has said three times that he would not raise taxes under any circumstances and three times said that (payroll) tax hikes were "on the table."'


                      It worked for Ronald Reagan. He got the lead part and the play ran in Washington for eight years.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 07:06 PM

In the last four days McCain, in front of six different audiences when asked about tax hikes, has said three times that he would not raise taxes under any circumstances and three times said that (payroll) tax hikes were "on the table."

Maybe that's not exactly lying. But it is not exactly trustworthy either.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 07:02 PM

Well DV, One of the main reasons I am supporting Obama is that I do think that there is a difference between his campaign and McCain's and Clinton's on this. These recent ads being among the clearest examples.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 06:16 PM

Good article HERE on how McCain and Bush lie about the efficacy of drilling for oil, offshore and in ANWR.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 06:13 PM

Re: lying:   "You don't know that. It is an easy position to sit on to avoid having to read and think and evaluate each one...but it is still just your opinion."


                  Here's how you know: If a candidate says one thing during the primary, and then says something else on the same topic during the general election, he was either lying the first time he said it, or lying the second time he said it.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 05:52 PM

And let me reiterate--I AM voting for Obama. But not with the blinders on that so many of his supporters are willing to put on.

I am voting lesser of two evils, and I still expect evil.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 05:49 PM

The McCain supporters will say stridently their candidate doesn't/didn't/won't lie. The Obama supporters, like the Hilary supporters, will stridently maintain the same is true of their candidate.

Both sides will stridently accuse the other of lying "all the time".

The truth is both sides lie, stretch and maim the truth, and say whatever they feel they have to say to get elected.

Obama is no better or worse than McCain or Clinton on this.

Of course, there is no convincing most liberals that their candidate lies all the time. They believe they have the moral high ground on this.

Ditto the conservatives.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 03:11 PM

Me, too, BillD.

Amos, I beat you to it,this time. See my first post with a link to the video.:-)

Here're some others' opinions of McCain's ad:

One senior Republican strategist quoted by the Washington Post called the latest ad a "wild swing at Obama" that reflects his campaign's "increasing bitterness" and the lack of "any coherent strategy to elect McCain."

Even John Weaver, a strategist who worked for McCain's presidential campaign in 2000 and on his current campaign last year, called the ad "childish," adding that this negative strategy "diminishes John McCain" and "needs to stop."

With the internet and Obama's savvy in using it AND grassroots, this is a whole 'nother ball game compared to what we've had in the past. The candidate and party which is the most "with it" as to new technology and how to use it, effectively are the ones who will win.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 01:30 PM

"Everybody lies in this game. One candidate is as bad as the other"

You don't know that. It is an easy position to sit on to avoid having to read and think and evaluate each one...but it is still just your opinion. What we have in elections is candidates. Sometimes we have a lousy selection, sometimes better...but there are ways to improve the odds.
I happen to think that we had several Democrats this time who 'could' have been a decent president...each with various strengths & weaknesses and talents and flaws. Unfortunately, ALL of them are required to be human, so none are perfect. We can only look, listen and pick one who 'sounds' sincere, intelligent and behaves in a manner that doesn't seem stupid. We have had 8 years of DUMB....now we have one candidate who seems to learn fast, speak well, seems honest and has a decent record. I am willing to give him a chance.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 12:58 PM

I would agree that it should be strange, Dick, but that's the way the game is played. If we had the "well informed" electorate that Jefferson wished for, it probably wouldn't play all that well.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 12:53 PM

Strange. When a candidate's popularity is portrayed as some sort of weakness. When another candidate, who is a millionaire and has been raised and educated at government expense, can call another candidate, who started out in a poor single-parent home and worked his way up, an elitist. When a candidate who switches positions on a daily basis is portrayed as steadfast. Very strange.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 12:46 PM

Everybody lies in this game. One candidate is as bad as the other. Most of us wish it weren't that way, but so fat nothing has changed it.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 12:24 PM

What the McCain campaign is doing is making false, over the top ads to get them played on "news" shows. Its what you do when you are behind in the money game. Also, apparently, their supporters don't care if they lie.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: Amos
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 12:13 PM

DV:

Tough is one thing, and false is another. The problem with false-info campaigns is that the minute a solid documentation of the lie occurs, it exposes the liar and his cred goes down the tubes.

So the simple answer is for the Obama campaign to get tough on this plank: John McCain lies to Americans, just like Karl Rove did. Is that the man you want upstairs? I didn't think so.


A

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 12:12 PM

My intent as a editorial cartoonist is to point out how we all lose with certain stratagies.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 11:42 AM

You are coming across as defensive, spiteful, and reactionary, Donuel. Is that your intent?

I only ask, because that is the sort of behavior that loses races for your side.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 11:38 AM

Because...sniff...sob...I miss the comparative demure sensitivity of Mae West. boohoooo hho hoo

I have noticed that if you called a blow job a blow job during the Lewinsky bruhaha it was deemed over the top.

If on the other hand I said "oral titillation" it was fine and dandy.

Still it is worthy to point out Presidential Porn campaign ads for what they are. Presidential Porn ads > hmmm that may have potential.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 11:26 AM

Look, I'm a lifelong Democrat who has voted for the loser in nearly every election since I began voting.

You are preaching to the choir.

I'm an Obama voter who won't vote--or threaten to vote--for McCain or any of that nonsense.

What I'm saying is this. It feels like deja vu all over again.

McCain has launched a very strong, very well crafted (in terms of message) attack ad that has hit it's mark.

The Letterman Show's Top Ten "Overconfident Obama" List is what is playing in Peoria right now.

McCain is closing on Obama in the swing states, and could surpass him coming out of the Republican convention, which is after the Democratic convention. Which means he can slap down any bounce Obama might get coming out of Denver, just like he is this week with the potential bounce Obama hoped to gain after his wildly popular--among his supporters and the media--foreign trip.

This is how Republicans beat the Democrats every election. They define the Democratic candidate in negative terms that alienate voters (and suppresses turnout), and results in those who do show up to vote, voting against the Democrat they've been brainwashed not to like on an emotional level, rather than for the Rebublican.

Amos, do you want the moral high ground more than the White House or to broaden the majority in Congress? Because that what your attitude seems to be. Whine about McCain playing this tough as nails.

Donuel, I don't know why you need to be so vile about these trashy women. We all know they are trashy, so why go so far over the top?

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 11:15 AM

But it would make a great Viagra ad!

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 11:06 AM

I am just glad that the Obama campaign is above ads showing Anna Nicole Smith next to John McCain.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 11:05 AM

over the top?
Should I post links to Brittany's and Paris' oral sex movies?

Popular culture probably smiles favorably on these girls since it sells, but porn is what it is, unless you enjou the dancing of Brittany and the singing of Hilton.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: Amos
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 11:00 AM

So, DV, are you saying the Dems should learn to be better liars and distorters of information?

What do you think Jefferson would think of that idea?


A

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 10:58 AM

"I guess they never learn."

It's the Democrats who never learn.

Or am I wrong in thinking the Republicans have ruled the roost in either the White House, the Congress, or both for the better part of the post-WWII era?

No, I thought not.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: Amos
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 10:47 AM

McCain's campaign consists, apparently of avoiding the issues and slandering others. He has just released a "Clebrity" ad with the accusation that Obama will increase dependence on foreign oil and raise takes on electricity. This is direct falsification of the record, but McCain's lads seem to think it a good idea anyway.

Ya gotta wonder why he thinks this is wise, or good for the country.

Seems to me there is more than enough false, distorted and malevolent information flying about without adding it. And perhaps he hopes that these lies will breing him power, as ROve did for Bush using the same techniques. I guess they never learn.



A

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 10:34 AM

Not to mention very sexist, which certainly doesn't do Obama any favors, especially with former Clinton voters.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 10:29 AM

"In fact they put two porn stars who have shown both their vaginas and blow job skills to America."


                     Isn't that a little over the top?

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 10:26 AM

This isn't an ad about race, and it isn't racist.

It is a very effective attack ad about Obama's ability to lead the nation in tough times, on tough issues like energy policy, which is the main subtext of the script.

Another reason why the ad is brilliant, is that it takes a policy tack that Obama can't counter by claiming McCain is Bush. The McCain legacy to date on energy policy is quite different that Bush/Cheney, which is one of the main reasons why McCain has never had neo-con support, and why the Bush/Cheney machine seems determined to undermine McCain at every opportunity.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 10:13 AM

The Republicans have countered the estate inheritence)/death tax/Paris Hilton tax break by putting her picture next to Obama in the latest McCain TV ad.

In fact they put two porn stars who have shown both their vaginas and blow job skills to America.
THe ad begins with Brtittany and Paris and shifts to Obama.
WHite women saying "call me sometine, sunk the last black candidate.
THey are noping it works again.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 09:51 AM

I agree it is all about turnout.

But this negative campaign strategy by Republicans has worked for the last 3 decades to suppress voter turnout, which is what they have to do to beat the Democrats who outnumber them in registered voters.

It is a risky strategy, playing the celebrity card. McCain has plenty of celebrity politician footage out there too. And goodness knows, Americans love their Republican celebrity politicians like no other in the post-FDR era.

But the way the attack ad is working is to show Obama as a lightweight celebrity with no real political experience, and especially, no leadership experience. Especially in tough times (war, bad economy, environment blowing up, energy scarcity, etc), do people vote for a candidate they view as inexperienced?

Everyone during the 1980 election campaign claimed Reagan was too old too. See where that got us?

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 09:10 AM

Of course in 2004 the fools were the ones pushing to keep the 10 Commandments out of courthouses--feeding red meat to the other side.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 08:56 AM

It's all about turnout. Enthusiasm for McCain--even among his base--is not high. Not so for Obama.

Bush won in 2004 partly by the army of the Religious Right doing the gruntwork for him--thanks partly to the stupidity of some people on the other side pushing hot-button issues, like the Ten Commandments in courthouses, and homosexual marriage.

This time the army looks to be on the other side.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 08:37 AM

I'll be voting for Obama, but as I said elsewhere in this forum, I find him to be a weak candidate.

The McCain camp has seemed off the rails since Obama clinched the nomination. But they found the target and hit the bullseye with the 'celeb' ad. It is pure negative ad genius. Which is really depressing, but I have to say what I think.

McCain is doing what every successful Republican presidential candidate before him has done. Define the opposition candidate their way.

Obama has just been Dukakis-ed. Mocking him as a light weight celebrity works, and provides them with endless fodder visually (photos of Obama with Bono, with fill in the blank wealthy rappers, jet setting movie stars, etc).

This will be Obama's toughest challenge to overcome to date.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: Peace
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 07:20 AM

Tell THAT to Polonius...

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 09:20 PM

... but watch out for that bastard hiding behind it...

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 08:10 PM

Pay no attention to the man in front of the curtain...

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 04:01 PM

It would be funny if it weren't so sad.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: TIA
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 03:45 PM

Wow kat. That is just plain weird as well.
Do you think John McCain even knows who those blonde girls in his ad are?

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 02:28 PM

Which candidate is in the tank for Paris Hilton?

Not Obama

Paris Hilton tax break

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 02:24 PM

Apparently McCain is now trying another tactic against Obama, that of World's Biggest Celebrity. (Scroll down for ad video.) Unreal and desperate sounding, imo.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 10:53 AM

Bobert,

I usually respect your opinion, but the image of Obama threatening to beat up a 72 year old gray haired war veteran, we don't need that.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 08:56 AM

One of McCain's many problems is that he hasn't done a very good job choosing advisors and campaign managers... And his poor choices are starting to cause hyim problems...

Of course, McCain's memory, or lack thereof, isn't helping either as he seems to contradict himself at least once a week on various policy positions and or facts... I think this is going to be more of an issue as the campaign gets into high gear... No matter, it is there for the Obama camp should they decide to follow McCain's negative Swiftboat advertising...

Tell ya' what I'd do if I were Obama... I'd run an ad where he looks into the camera and says "Next time you run an ad inferring that I am either unpatriotic or somehow a Nazi sympathizer yer gonna get one of these (holds up fist) and you can take that to the bank, John!!!" (15 seconds) I mean, I am getting kind of sick seeing these horriblly negative attacks by McCain... McCain needs a good ol' fashion butt whuppin' and I think the American people would have respect for Obama if he would do just that... And now!!! Don't let these cumulative attacks add up... You don't win campaigns with a "Rope-a-Dope" strategy... Mighta worked for Mohammed Ali but it ain't gonna work in this campaign regardless of how many voters say they are sick of partisanship...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 01:00 AM

McCain does *too* speak for himself. Sometimes it would be better if he closed his mouth. :)

Making the Web Rounds

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 10:57 PM

Those men were not heroes until circumstances made them so. I'd prefer to have easier times and less need for great men. On the other hand circumstances found Bush wanting. I know Obama or McCain are both much better men. But will they rise to the occasion?

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 10:47 PM

Yes, I don't disagree with that. Too bad we can't find another FDR or a General Eisenhower.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 10:43 PM

>>I think it's important to understand, that Republicans don't consider payroll taxes to be taxes at all.

You point is taken

And it may be important to note, but not in this campaign. McCain has already complained about Obama's plans vis a vis payroll taxes and it is clear in both interviews that payroll taxes are being referred to.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 10:38 PM

I think it's important to understand, that Republicans don't consider payroll taxes to be taxes at all. Remember Ronald Reagan who is credited with lowering taxes? He lowered income taxes, but raised social security taxes. People went to the polls and re-elected him in 1984 because they thought he lowered taxes, when most of them were paying more taxes than ever.

                  Then there was the discussion of the rebate checks to boost the economy. The Republicans said poor people shouldn't get rebates because they never paid any taxes, but they'd been paying the inflated Reagan payroll taxes for years.

                  Finally, raising the cap on who pays Social Security taxes whas probably the one good idea Obama had. Now that McCain has co-opted that, what does he have?

Subject: BS: McCain does not speak for McCain
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 10:30 PM

According to Tucker Bounds!

This Tucker Bounds has a lot of nerve!!

LOL

I don't think that McCain can be President if he can't even get his own spokes-people to agree with him.

BTW, I know that its a lefty website. But the video is clear and self evident.

LOL

LOL