BS: UK can still be Imperial

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 10:58 AM

Diesel is still £1.11 a litre at my nearest Tesco's today.

XG

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 08:20 AM

That won't last for long. (And when I filled up at Tescos yesterday teh proce was still/already above £1 a litre.)

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 08:10 AM

Now, of course, prices per litre are way over £1. But the machines we have can cope no matter how high the price goes.

How quickly things change!!

Petrol Prices now below £1- per litre

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: Slag
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 10:30 PM

Yes McGarth, I realize that the US system is not "Imperial" per se, but as this seemed to be, primarily a UK thread I was trying not to confuse the issue. The US system DERIVES from the Imperial system just as the US derived from the UK, as did a lot of other countries. It seems that beer was in short supply back in those days and they tightened up on the pint just a little so as to let the consumer think he was still getting the same amount. It's still going on. Check out a quart jar of mayo or some other food products these days in the US...28 bleeding ounces...NOT 32!

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 09:44 PM

I heard this in the supermarket today:

Here I stand, head in hand, turned my face to the wall.
If she's gone, I can't go on, feelin' two-foot small.
'Hey! you've got to hide your love away.'

Somehow, 'feelin' .609 meters tall' just lacks poetic power.
======
The people who worked on measurement systems back in the 18th C could easily have made the meter and the yard be equal, but ooooh no. The English and the French have to be different.

Now everybody else is paying for it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: Gurney
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 05:11 PM

The point I was trying to make in my tirade above was; It doesn't bloody matter! As long as buyer and seller understand the quantity and its price! And in retail exchanges, they do. Some poor bloke was prosecuted for selling bananas by the pound, but he wasn't cutting them up to get exactly a pound sterling's worth.
Do you buy your petrol by the gallon? Or do you say $50 worth? One pound of banansa or six bananas?

The only people who could possibly he hornswoggled are importers, and if they can't be bothered to buy a calculator, to hell with them.

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: Peace
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 03:19 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: GUEST,Justin U - PM
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 06:52 AM

It should be Imperial. I went into a fruit shop the other day and the young lady wa talking about her melons and the weight of them, all I want was a pear."

This asshole just posted racist crap on another thread. Could he please be banned?

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 02:05 PM

Now, of course, prices per litre are way over £1. But the machines we have can cope no matter how high the price goes.

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 01:11 PM

As I recall, there were two reasons the UK went over to retailing petrol (gasoline) in litres.
1, The nation's ancient stock of (mechanical) petrol pumps were not suited to recording sales where the unit price (one gallon) was greater than £1- (and prices were heading that way!)
2, Once changed, an increase of the prices of 1p per unit (litre) looks much better than an increase of 4.4p per unit (gallon)

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 12:23 PM

Within weeks those metric symbols disappeared as people would only buy gas at stations that had retained the Imperial measurements.

Very admirable behaviour on the part of the American public - though I'd put it down to righteous bloody-mindedness rather than "People were confused and couldn't figure out how much per gallon they were actually paying", which would suggest that American drivers are stupider than English drivers who adjusted to the new pumps without much of a fuss.

But American gallons are not "Imperial measurements". Both sorts of gallons are eight pints, but an American pint is 16 fluid ounces, and an Imperial pint is 20 ounces.

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 12:17 PM

When we were part of an Empire we had an Emperor.
When we were a Kingdom we had a king.
Now we're just a country we've got ... Gordon Brown.

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 12:13 PM

Shanghaiceltic:
Just a thought, if the UK went truly metric they would have to replace the scales on the statue of Justice above the Old Bailey.
No, the statue of Justice holds a twin pan balance. Scales, by very definition, show scalar quantities. Balances show whether the contents of one pan are heavier, or lighter, that the 'standard weights (of whatever description) are in the other pan.

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: GUEST,Justin U
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 06:52 AM

It should be Imperial. I went into a fruit shop the other day and the young lady wa talking about her melons and the weight of them, all I want was a pear.

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 04:51 AM

Ouch!

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 03:43 AM

And Quite right too!

I tell people I had a 4.42kilo baby, they look at me as if I were strange... I tell them she was 8lbs 12 & 1/2oz, I get the sympathy I deserve!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: Gurney
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 01:56 AM

If the world was completely working under one system, then some bastard would want to change it. Everyone knew what centigrade was, so it became celcius. And what was wrong with Fahrenheit? If you don't live at the seaside, you can't check either scale, and why would you want to!
The metric system is an arbitrary set of measurements which were devised for Napoleon and promoted by him throughout his empire. Now it is being pushed by the Euro-tyrants and their sycophants. Little would-be napoleons to a 'person.'



There. I feel better now.

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 12:42 AM

Amen Giok.

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 10:54 PM

LOL, the only thing I can think of which is measured in metric in the US is soda pop and even then they still print the ounces, etc. on the labels, too.

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: Slag
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 09:36 PM

Appearently peregrina misssed my ROFLMAO at the end of my comment. Actually the US DID convert many of the gas pumps to liters. People were confused and coudn't figure out how much per gallon they were actually paying. Everyone was sure they were being ripped off. Within weeks those metric symbols disappeared as people would only buy gas at stations that had retained the Imperial measurements. It was a HUGE fiasco.

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 05:33 PM

Just a thought, if the UK went truly metric they would have to replace the scales on the statue of Justice above the Old Bailey.

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:21 PM

The Tories were also in power in 1971 when we went decimal, albeit the board to set it up was convened on 1969 under a Labour government. They were the ones who decided to use the pound as a base unit, rather than the 10/-, which in decimal terms would have made a lot more sense.
This to my mind, is the date from which inflation started in earnest in the UK, and you can blame whoever you like, but that is what set the UK on the downward spiral.
Metrification was similarly fumbled, either we were metric or we weren't, and the reluctance of governments to grasp the nettle, and declare for one or the other, was madness.
Still we do like to gold plate laws from Brussels, and persecute people by using them, while other countries pay only lip service to them, and get on with real life.
e.g. There are fish openly on sale in Spanish markets, that are below the official permitted size for landing. Do the Spaniards do what we do, and chuck them back into the sea dead? Of course not, they are pragmatists, and reckon that it's better feeding people, then feeding crabs in the sea. Meanwhile their fishery inspectors turn a blind eye.
When will people stop blaming named politicians, and realise it's the bureaucrats that run the world, not the Maggies and Tonys!

Rant over.

XG

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:20 PM

It was in most ways still a Tory government in 2000 under Blair. However in fact the legislation concerned was introduced in 1989, under Thatcher, but with a delay in enforcing it built in.
..................

"...we all know exactly what a pint looks like" - but of course so do the Americans, and if you got one of their pints you'd complain, and you'd be right to do so. (I'm talking about the size of the glass, not trolling about the quality of the contents!)

Subject: RE: BS: UK can atill be Imperial
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 12:51 PM

The Tories introduced metrification in 2000? They lost power in 1997...

Subject: RE: BS: UK can atill be Imperial
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 12:13 PM

Reminds me of a little old lady who used to run a pub in the village where I live. Back in the 1970s when Ireland changed to decimal coinage , she determinedly refused to change. She kept a small shoe box full of the old threepenny bits, "tanners" ,"florins" half-crowns and ten-shilling and pound notes,under the counter.
Until she died shortly afterwards,she continued to give out change in the older coins and notes, much to the bewilderment of her, mainly elderly, clientele.

Subject: RE: BS: UK can atill be Imperial
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 12:04 PM

It is still part of the national curriculum for pupils to be taught to change metric units to imperial units and vice versa so why ban imperial units?; it doesn't seem to make sense.

Subject: RE: BS: UK can atill be Imperial
From: Arnie
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 10:52 AM

I suppose with the Labour Gov't falling behind in the polls, they had to do something to gain a bit of popularity. Interesting that the Tories introduced metrification in 2000 - they're supposed to be the party sticking up for British values and opposed to Brussels meddling. Personally I've no intention of going metric if I can help it. I'll admit that I know what 1kg feels like, as that's a bag of sugar. However, I've no idea about litres and am simply not interested - in fact I'm sitting here with a pint in hand at present, and we all know exactly what a pint looks like!

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: peregrina
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 10:15 AM

The US did not go metric... not for gallons, not for miles.

The old imperial measures are still more intuitive to many and their origins and their units evolved in relation to human beings and human experience (foot length, stride length, etc). Whereas few people have walked around enough of the globe to experience what unit the meter is a fraction of...

here

Subject: RE: BS: UK can still be Imperial
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 10:13 AM

US Gallons and pint aren't quite as big as the ones over here. But their linear measurements are the same.

I've never yet met an American who thinks in terms of litres and kilometres (or "liters" and "kilometers" for that matter) and so forth. I'm sure there are some.

This little u-turn is very welcome. The unfair thing has been that big supermarkets have been blithely using imperial weights and measures much of the time, and no one has come down on them, it's just been the market traders. (For example if at the cheese counter in Sainsburys you say "I'll have a half of that" they never give you half a kilo, or even ask.)

Subject: RE: BS: UK can atill be Imperial
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 10:13 AM

What about the poor traders who have been fined, and forced to pay legal fees, and who now find the crime they were convicted of no longer exists?
They should be compensated, and their 'criminal record' expunged.

XG

Subject: RE: BS: UK can atill be Imperial
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 09:26 AM

And distances in miles amd yards?

Subject: RE: BS: UK can atill be Imperial
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 09:03 AM

US - metric? Fuel in Gallons still?

Subject: RE: BS: UK can atill be Imperial
From: Slag
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 08:52 PM

Too bad your country wasn't more like the United States. We passed a similar bill back in the late '70s or '80s, I can't really remember when. A target date was set for the complete and total conversion to metric. That date has come and gone at some point in the last Milena. We've been completely metric ever since! Come on, get on board. Don't be a dinosaur without a hectare for home. Forget Avoirdupois the Shekel, stadia and Fahrenheit. Join us in the modern world. ROFLMAO

Subject: BS: UK can atill be Imperial
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 08:13 PM

Good a slap in the face for the Brussel's Sprouts.

As an engineer I think metric but as a drinker I think pints...

Metric 'martyrs' win fight to save imperial measures
Traders who sell food using imperial measures are to escape prosecution after the Government backed down.


By David Barrett and David Harrison
Last Updated: 12:04AM BST 18 Oct 2008
Imperial versus metric: Victory for 'metric martyrs' as EU surrenders


Councils will be banned from taking the so-called "metric martyrs" to court for "essentially minor offences" such as selling goods weighed in pounds and ounces.

The decision is believed to have been prompted by the case of Janet Devers, the east London market trader who had to pay nearly £5,000 in costs and received a criminal record earlier this month after a prosecution brought by Hackney council.

John Denham, the Innovation Secretary, will issue guidelines within months that prevent local authorities taking traders to court. He said: "It is hard to see how it is in the public interest, or in the interests of consumers, to prosecute small traders who have committed what are essentially minor offences."

Although metric measurements have been taught in British schools since the 1970s, many people are still more familiar with the old-style measures, particularly when it comes to purchasing food.

Tens of thousands of market traders across the country risk prosecution on a daily basis by serving customers using imperial measures. The imperial system is prevalent in other industries such as clothing, motoring and pubs, where inches, miles and pints are commonly used.

John Gardner, chairman of the British Weights and Measures Association, which has been campaigning for reinstatement of imperial measures since 1995, said: "This is a very significant development. Our view is that prosecuting someone for selling in pounds and ounces can never be in the public interest because it involves no misrepresentation, fraud or inaccuracy."

Metric measurements were first introduced after Britain's decision to join in 1973 what was then the Common Market. There have been six prosecutions since the law was changed to make it illegal to trade in imperial measures.

In 2000, legislation introduced by the Conservative government came into force, leading to the first metric martyr prosecution, that of Steve Thoburn, a Sunderland market stall holder.

His case, along with three others, went to the Court of Appeal, where the convictions were upheld. There was widespread anger over the prosecutions, which cost the taxpayer hundreds of thousands of pounds.

Mr Thoburn's wife, Leigh, pleaded with him to end his crusade, saying it was placing undue strain on his health and his family. He died of a heart attack in 2004.

In Mrs Devers's case, the 64-year-old stallholder's imperial scales were seized and she was charged with 12 separate offences under weights and measures law.

After her conviction, she said: "I've been made a scapegoat. To get a criminal record for this is absolutely outrageous. There are 30 other stalls in my market doing what I'm doing, and yet they have chosen to prosecute me."

Neil Herron, campaign director of the Metric Martyrs, whose original fighting fund was supported by £100,000 in donations from readers of The Sunday Telegraph, gave a cautious welcome to the Government's new stance. He said: "This is good news but it's just a start. We need the law to be changed. So long as the law is there, any rogue local authority could go ahead with a prosecution."

Last September, Gunther Verheugen, the EU trade commissioner, said Brussels had abandoned its policy of forcing Britain to go metric. He said: "Pounds and ounces are in no way under threat from Brussels and never will be.''