BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:54 PM

Oddly enough, the three types of clam chowder---New England, Rhode Island and Manhattan--are all good if they're made well. Bad Manhattan clam chowder tastes like vegetable soup with a tinge of clam; Bad New England clam chowder tastes like wallpaper paste with some clams added. I never really encountered bad Rhode Island clam chowder--no milk, no tomatoes--but I guess that it exists.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 09:06 AM

Where I came and come from clam chowder without clams is called an abomination.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: kendall
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 08:59 AM

I had fish chowder as a kid with no milk. It was ok, but I prefer milk.

Where I come from, clam chowder without clams is called "Scouse"

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: EBarnacle
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 04:26 PM

My previous should have said that "The problem is that the flies don't wish to land on the sea and become food [for the fishes].

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 01:08 PM

I used to shoot golf, only they're all stringy inside and taste like rubber. Not worth the shot.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: EBarnacle
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 09:55 AM

The problem is that don't wish to land on the sea and become lunch.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: gnu
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 09:53 AM

Ya gotta tie em up first.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: kendall
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 09:22 AM

I gave up fly fishing...too hard to clean them.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 08:36 AM

I tried to do that, but I couldn't find out how to milk the soybeans so I gave it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 02:37 AM

I use soy milk in place of real milk in the chowders I make (not clam, but potato and carrot), and it works quite well.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 10:10 PM

Some would say that that it was a pretty naff thing to say.


Could yer "tuba sarnie" be a tub of sandwiches, maybe with fish as a filling?Or, maybe a root vegetable sandwich?

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: Beer
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 09:31 PM

Use to get 25 cents to shell a bucket.
Use to dig 4/6 buckets a tide.
Use to sell a 24oz. bottle for $1.00 standing on the side of the road with a sign.
Use to pay 25 cents for a scoff of fried clams.
Use to kick large clusters of mussels out of the way. Would never think of eating them.

But I still sit with a pint with my brother in law and eat a bucket of raw clams when we have the opportunity to do so. And that is about every second year now.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 09:14 PM

"I don't go past a tuba sarnie now ! "

I have no idea what you are talking about, but the image of a "tuba sarnie" will keep me up at nights.   I always thought it was just a brass instrument, but it sounds like it is doing something that is illegal in most states of the union.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: GUEST,Justin U
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 07:42 PM

Oh I am finished with seafood, got a sickener recently.

I don't go past a tuba sarnie now ! You can't even get peace to choose your own bread, Two women at my door this morning going on about it, I think they were Hovis Witnesses.

I said to the wife, "I thought I saw your name on a loaf of bread today, but when I looked again it said 'Thick Cut'."

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: kendall
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 07:34 PM

gnu, you know something the others don't.
Clams, I could stand them on their heads if they had heads.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 03:44 PM

Out here they collect clams with shovel and a stovepipe.

No foolin'.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: gnu
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 03:38 PM

Kendall... I'll bet ya can't even stand em on their heads!

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: gnu
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 02:59 PM

Hehehe... minds me. That talk and slide show... that lad was the sfter dinner speaker at a house dinner (house = uni men's residence). Our Don's wife was a biology prof and she arranged for the talk.

One part of the talk dealt with worms from undercooked fish and seafood. Some of these worms live in the last quarter of the bowels. When the host is sleeping, they push their way partly past the anal sphincter and lay eggs. I shall stop there and not relay the remainder of the cycle of procreation. Suffice it to say that it involves itchiness in that region.

The speaker also said that if anyone thought they might be subject to such a parasite, they need only perform a simple task. Upon waking in the morn, they could pat a small piece of clear "Scotch Brand Tape" near the sphinter and subsequently fold it, thereby trapping any eggs, and submit it to our "Den Mother", as he called the Don's wife, in his rather austere English accent, for her analysis.

Well, our house had it's own dining hall, replete with a 72 year old cook who was often was forgetful. And, the kitchen served deep fried battered fish once a week. Out of 64 residents, 55 submitted said pieces of tape within two days and all tested positive.

The orange flavoured powder we were given to mix with water and drink daily for three days was tasty, but the lineups at the house toilets were excruciating.

Anyway, the bi-valves and bottom feeders in the Northumberland straight are extra tasty.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: kendall
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 02:57 PM

I like "steamers" (Not the Utah Phillips kind) but they must be good old Mya Arenaria. (Maine soft shell clams.)

I'll start another row...I've tried Alaska King Crabs, and southern Rock Lobster but they can't hold a candle to Maine or Canadian Homarus Americanus Lobsters.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: EBarnacle
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 02:46 PM

Try it with Mahogany clams. Had 'em for the first time this summer. Eggsellent!

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 02:18 PM

"Got sommat to do with the parasites in em"

... that's probably why my wife won't buy them.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: gnu
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 02:08 PM

??? I posted THREE times and it's still not here...

Oh well, whatever. New post. I'll just see what happens this time.

Kendall... re bar clams being tough and tasteless... not here. The bar clams in the Northumberland straight on the NB side are fantastic. Got sommat to do with the parasites in em. At UNB, the Biology Dept Head gave a talk and slide show about same. Apparently, the mollusks in Shediac Bay taste so good because of the parasites. And, they are tender.

BTW... the post that wasn't contained a reference to Margaree, NF... east of Port-aux-Basques. The restaurant is unreal, but you gotta call first to see if they feel like cooking today.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: jeffp
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 02:05 PM

Just give me a dozen arsters on the half shell and stand back. I'll make enough slurping noise to sound like a bowl of chowdah.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: Beer
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 01:07 PM

Newfoundland Steak. Now there is some good one's and some not so good. But all in all it is great.
ad.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 12:25 PM

I agree Kendall. ... "japanese math" ... good one.

There is a diner down in Port Harwich Cape Cod that serves the largest quahogs I've ever seen .... damned monsters they are.

Best chowder to be found (IMHO) .... at the Reversing Falls resteraunt here in Saint John, N.B.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: kendall
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 12:23 PM

That comment about Manhattan clam chowder was made by Tom Rowe of Schooner Fare.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: kendall
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 12:14 PM

They should be. Tougher than Japanese math, and almost tasteless.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 11:49 AM

fried bologna .... my stepfather from Twillingate Nfld. loved that .... he proudly called it Newfie steak.

gnu ... I haven't checked the price of quahogs lately ... They used to be dirt cheap.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 11:45 AM

Fish chowder is a different story, and I'm sure yours is tasty! Clams are just bland... and to soak them in milk doesn't help. The flavors and acids in the tomato make them enjoyable.

I happen to love steak and ketchup, but I would use a cheaper cut of meat than filet mignon!   I also love fried bologna!

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 11:43 AM

Or top class malt whisky in his coffee, Kendall ;)

XG

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: kendall
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 11:37 AM

Ron, there's nothing bland about my fish chowder!
Anyone who would add tomatoes to clam chowder would put ketchup on a filet minion.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 11:05 AM

Clam chowder is particularly great from a diner, for some reason. The one where I worked as a student did lovely Manhattan clam chowder - the first day it was made it was kind of bland, but the next day, when it had reduced a bit, it was lovely. And if you were lucky enough that there was any three-day-old chowder left, and you could rustle up a bit of garlic bread to go with it...heaven.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: EBarnacle
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 10:57 AM

On the way into Newport, RI, there is a blue building by the side of the road. They sell seafood and seafood products. When you go in there, you can get a container of ambrosia, aka chowder. If you are so inclined, they will add milk or stewed tomatoes, with a sneer to go with it. They appreciate the joy of unalloyed great chowder.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 10:56 AM

Clam chowder is okay, but I really prefer a good fish or mixed seafood chowder. I also really love a good lobster stew. Now THAT'S comfort food!

Tom cooked up a pot of fish chowder last night (totally unrelated to this thread -- a neighbor gave us some haddock) so it should be ready to eat for supper tonight.

By the way, cream...and butter. (And some of the best oyster crackers around, rather than tradition New England common crackers.)

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: Beer
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 09:59 AM

Both are nothing more than a substitute for the real clams. And that is the true clam chowder.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 09:53 AM

I'll take Manhattan clam chowder over that New England slop any day of the week.   Every New England clam chowder I've tried is too bland and boring. Dump the milk and add some tomatoes and enjoy some taste for a change.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: MMario
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 09:14 AM

john-in-kansas; the TRUE heresy in your post isn't the "canned"

it's the "manhatten"

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 09:09 AM

Well, originally the milk came from sea cows but they were found some of the guys got romantically involved, especially if they'd been at sea for some time. Whalers used to use whale milk, making the new guys in the crew go overboard with a bucket to milk the whales whenever the ships crossed the equator or found a lactating whale. Dolphins were used but to no porpoise as their milk was found to upset the stomachs of certain ship's captains. Goats were tried, as were sheep and llamas, but they really aren't sea-going animals and they again caused certain problems with the crew after months at sea.

So cow's milk it was! "Let the farm boys handle their own romantic entanglements," one salty old skipper said. "We've got enough problems with our cabin boys."

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: kendall
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 08:51 AM

Reading this thread I got to hankering for fish chowder, and I made one last evening. Delicious!

Think about what an unlikely combo this is..Fish, or clams, and milk!

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: gnu
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 05:19 AM

sIx... quahogs = bar clams (pretty much) around here. And they cost $8.50 for a medium size jar at the corner store. Last time I had a feed they cost me a stubbed toe.

Kendall... my memory... didn't you have a clam chowder recipe in the Mudcat cookbook? I'd look it up if I could remember where the darn book is.

As for the milk, if you drop in unannounced, bring yer own.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: GUEST,MarkS (on the road)
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 11:55 PM

Rapaire - You are thinking of Chicken Soup - not clam chowder!

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: EBarnacle
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 11:45 PM

Close, Mark, The Rhode Island style has a bit of butter as its only milk product. It's for those of us who don't need tomatoes or a lot of milk milk or cream to appreciate the taste of seafood in chowder form.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: Ed T
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 09:47 PM

Some substitute milk with a can of condensed cream soup, (for example celery). But, I suspect there is milk products in it also,

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 09:30 PM

Have the Rhode Island Reds no taste, no sense of decency?

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: GUEST,MarkS (on the road)
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 09:15 PM

Sounds like Rhode Island style. That is the norm there.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 09:06 PM

Manhattan Clam "Chowder" -- I agree with whoever it was in Schooner Fare who said, "Those clams have been injured." It is heresy, rank and unforgivable.

Even here in the Northwest clam chowder is white, made with potatoes and all the other stuff God intended it to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 08:53 PM

A chowder, as I recall, is defined as a soup containing salt pork and potatoes. Doesn't have to be seafood, though it usually is.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 08:01 PM

I think it would be tasty made with almond milk, add a nutty flavour and the unsweetened variety is only 40 calories per serving. I made a white sauce for a vegetable lasagna using it and it was dee-li-shush!

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 07:44 PM

Heresy mounts its head:

In the US, you can buy canned¹ clam chowder with or without milk.

Look for "Manhattan clam chowder" or "New England clam chowder."

You might even be able to look up the two variant names, but I haven't cared enough to inquire.

¹ This is the "heresy" part, just in case it wasn't obvious to anyone.

A few restaurants "back east" some years ago even had a choice of the two kinds on their menus. They always sort of apologized for the "without milk" kind, and explained it was for "furiners who din't know no better." (Recollection is that it had 'maters in it(?))

John

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 07:27 PM

Ann, my wife uses canned evaporated milk ... but then again, she's a Scot.

gnu ... you mentioned the high price of clams, how about substituting them with quahogs. They're cheaper.

and regarding lobster ... go up to Shediac. I'm certain you can find some good deals on lobster up there.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: kendall
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 07:20 PM

I don't care much for clam chowder, but I do love haddock chowder. I use a small can of evaporated milk, plus a pint or so of regular milk. Garlic? bacon? naw.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: Ed T
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 06:56 PM

I find fat free evaporated milk tastes like bilge water.
A friend gave me this chowder recipe, he says it's good...but,...never tried it.


1 or 2 slices (or more) cooked bacon, cut up into bits
Sweet onion, enough to make about 2 ounces chopped
1 clove garlic 1/2 teaspoon (3g) fresh minced thyme or 1/4 teaspoon dried
1 baking potato, enough to make about 1 cup (240g) diced
2 cups fish stock or clam juice
Salt
White pepper
1 cup milk (thickened with flour, or starch, if you wish)
12 ounces cod or haddock fillet
1 tablespoon (15g) chopped flat-leaf parsley

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 06:49 PM

I'm with Rapaire -- my Wisconsin "Dairy State" roots still showing here in New Hampshire -- cream and butter, good for what ails ya.

Guinness along with the chowduh, too -- the tastes complement each other perfectly.

But, gnu, your dairy-less version sounds pretty tasty to me, too.

By the way, John Emery's mother always said, "Never pay more than fifty cents a pound for lobster."

Alas, in the close to 40 years I've been in New England, I've never been able to follow that advice.

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: bobad
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 06:46 PM

If you want some of that creamy richness without the fat, try using fat free condensed milk.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: gnu
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 06:43 PM

Sounds good, along with the shushhhh of rising blood presshhhure in my ears. A good measure of salt might help seal the coffin.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 06:27 PM

Danged right, without milk. Heavy cream is what you should be using, and and huge lumps real, rich, home-churned butter.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: gnu
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 06:15 PM

The clams and scallops.

No, Sobey's has the lobster and they can keep it at those prices.

Drop by any time.

Dumplings? Do I look like a dumpling kinda guy? You eat dumplings, I get a fat ass... not fair.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: Beer
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 06:06 PM

I always put the milk and add dumplings .
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 06:01 PM

Sounds just fine to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 05:52 PM

you forgot the lobster pieces.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: peregrina
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 05:50 PM

sounds delicious, but what makes it a chowder rather than a fish broth?

Subject: BS: Clam Chowder without milk??!!
From: gnu
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 05:36 PM

Yes. That's the way I make it. Unless I have company coming.

Baby clams (they want and arm and a leg for bar clams here, and clams don't got none), scallops, haddock, spuds, onions, salt free marg (butter... see "company" above) and water.. yes, water. And, if company is coming, I use a the salt free marg and a bit of butter and SKIM milk and I don't tell anyone. And they like it... or they say they do.

You?