BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 May 11 - 11:45 AM

Only thing is, Greg, I'm getting the glimmerings of a realization you really don't intend to add anything constructive to the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 May 11 - 11:38 AM

Gee, Greg, we have a wonderful symbiotic relationship:    you wallow in the gutter and I tell you you are wallowing in the gutter.

And we're both deliriously happy.

It's so great.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 May 11 - 08:56 AM

Turds & skunks, Simple, turds & skunks.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 May 11 - 12:07 AM

"potty-mouthed 6 year old"

QED



We're so proud you're learned to say it in French too.   Just think, now you can be at home in French gutters too.    I'm in awe.




And we hope to see you again very very soon.( You're not likely to catch that reference, Greg.   But UK Mudcatters probably will.)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 May 11 - 11:04 AM

I asked you if you had a countertheory on the shutdown crisis. I'll take that as a "no". Unsurprisingly.

Its not that simple, Simple. Whether I have one or not(and I have several), there's no point engaging with you as you change the rules and the parameters to favor yourself as things go along.

vide below, turds and skunks.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 May 11 - 10:42 PM

I asked you if you had a countertheory on the shutdown crisis.

I'll take that as a "no".

Unsurprisingly.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 May 11 - 08:53 AM

By the way, Simple, you do run on - consistently using two dozen words where one or two would be amply sufficient.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 May 11 - 08:47 AM

Ah, now I see, oh Simple Seeker! You woyls have preferred "merde" I suppose?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 May 11 - 10:45 PM

Look, it's very simple.   Either you have a countertheory or you don't.   And I wouldn't want to try to force you to admit you don't have one.   You can always just refrain from comment.   Believe it or not, that is an option.


I started this thread since I thought it was remarkable how well Obama had done in the shutdown crisis-- partly due to weakness on the other side.

And I was curious to hear other opinions. So far, it pains me to say, you have contributed precisely zero to the discussion--especially when asked how you thought Obama had done--since you evidently disagree with me. It's a very narrow question--having only to do with what concessions he had to make to avoid a shutdown--as against expectations of those concessions before the agreement with the GOP.

The negotiations on the debt ceiling are bound to be much more challenging.   Especially since Boehner is now under tremendous pressure from the "tea party" to get much more budget cuts from the eventual debt ceiling agreement than he did on the shutdown agreement, in which the "tea party" feels he gave away the store--needlessly. As I said earlier, at this point they are not at all happy with him.

Or perhaps you disagree with this reading of the situation also.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 May 11 - 10:31 PM

" Covered."   By denial.   Not good enough.

If, dear Greg, you don't realize that your post of 17 April 2011 was indeed scatological, you need, in the worst way, to make the acquaintance of a dictionary.

Perhaps for the first time.

And that post contributes remarkably little--even for you--to the discussion.   In fact it's slightly discouraging to try to carry on a conversation with somebody who claims to be an educated person, but is much closer to a potty-mouthed 6 year old.

I also note with interest how other posters on other threads recently have also enjoyed your delightful contributions.    Your coarse attacks on Doug R, for instance, can have the effect of arousing sympathy for him, despite his extreme stances on various issues.    But I'm sure that has no effect on you--as long as you can continue to run off at the mouth in your patented vulgar fashion.

Now, back to topic:    If you don't think Obama did well in the threatened government shutdown crisis, for the n'th time, why not?    None of your posts, while revealing more about you than we really want to know, have revealed a countertheory on the shutdown crisis.

It begins to look as if you have no idea--and no intention to do anything but whine, sneer, and favor us with singularly stupid vulgarisms.    But I'm sure that's not the case. We hope.






to be continued

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 May 11 - 08:12 AM

Try 17 April 2011. 2:56 PM. Sorry you're still having problems reading, Greg.

Already covered, Simple; See ¶ #2, Below

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 May 11 - 12:54 AM

Try 17 April 2011.   2:56 PM.   Sorry you're still having problems reading, Greg.

Perhaps it comes of spending too much time in the gutter.

But I have confidence even you can learn to communicate in a civilized manner on a steady basis. Hope it's not too much of a strain.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 May 11 - 10:29 AM

Well, Simple Seeker- since my last and "very recent" post was just about a month ago, and contained no scatological terms (unless you feel that "England" fits the bill) you appear to be laboring under some delusion.

If you're referring to the post before that, indicating that I've no desire or time to get into a pissing contest with a skunk ( I hope you recognize yourself), "turd" is a perfectly proper word - derived from the French, I believe.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 May 11 - 11:49 PM

Gee, Greg, I asked you--and anybody else who disagreed with my theory that Obama had come out of the threatened government shutdown much better than anticipated--for your own theory on how Obama had done.    Your --very recent-- response was to fall into the gutter--again--(you seem to spend a lot of time there)-- and favor us with your current favorite scatalogical remark.

It's interesting that in your circles this must pass as rational debate.    I daresay most thinking persons might disagree with you.

But if you're more comfortable in the gutter, by all means don't let me stop you.   Above all we want you to be happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 May 11 - 10:05 AM

Which counter-theory would that be, oh illustrious Simple Seeker After Truth?

And don't concern yourself; you ALWAYS know better.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 May 11 - 08:14 AM

Just in passing, it certainly is fascinating to see the nature of Greg's countertheory.   If I didn't know better, I could swear he's fallen into the gutter again.    Pobrecito.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 May 11 - 07:11 PM

As long as he doesn't break the habit cold turkey.    That would be too much of a shock for us--and maybe even for him.

But we'll just see how it goes.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 07 May 11 - 03:17 PM

(Y-A-A-A-A-W-W-N.......)

He simply ain't interested, Ron. He is aware that comin' here and bitchin' at each other every day over politics is nothin' but a pointless behavioral addiction for various restless, crabby, and frustrated old minds, that it don't matter anyway what anyone says here about politics, that participatin' in it is absolutely pointless and only worsens one's general state of mind, and he is tryin' by degrees to break that habit entirely....like Spaw did a long time back.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 May 11 - 02:06 PM

No illustrious posters here?   Say it ain't so, LH.

At least one is an internationally renowned intellectual who has realized what nobody else has:   that we're all helpless prisoners of (pick one or more)   "the System", the "oligarchy". world capitalism, etc.

Admittedly some posters have more time for an "uncaring computer screen" than others do.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: artbrooks
Date: 04 May 11 - 07:33 PM

OMG - I agree with LH on something!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 May 11 - 02:46 PM

There are no illustrious posters here, just a bunch of restless old minds occupying their extra time uselessly by bitching at each other across an uncaring computer screen.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 May 11 - 08:08 AM

$38 vs $33 billion.    If$33 billion was mentioned--which at this point is unproven-- it was part of the negotiations, never an agreement.


Shows just how out of touch the illustrious poster is with reality.   Only in the world of the far left of center posters we are honored to have on Mudcat would anything under $40 billion in cuts be a defeat for the President.

And by the way, interesting that "I heard" without source becomes a fact.   Again, a specialty of leftists, it seems. I certainly hope he is more careful in his law practice.

But consider how he has brought a political paradise to the UK.   This says a lot about his credibiity.



Reality is that there was huge pressure for either $100 billion in cuts or about $60 billion.

Final figure was about $39 billion.    Much was taken care of by accounting gimmicks.

The "tea party" was not happy in the least--as I said.




Final reality is that this was just one skirmish in the budget battle. Now comes the bigger battle over the debt ceiling.

But Obama came out of the "shutdown" threat much better than anticipated.

As I noted,

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 May 11 - 04:43 PM

Dennis Kucinich was the only candidate in that election that I had real faith in, but he also had no chance whatsoever of winning his party's nomination...or the presidency. They actually blocked him from the later televised debates on spurious technicalities that were cooked up to shut him out of the dialogue! And if he ever did become president (which is quite inconceivable in the existing system), I expect he'd get assassinated in fairly short order...or else simply blocked at every step by Congress to the point where he was politically ruined.

An honest man cannot serve at the head of a criminal oligarchy.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 01:21 AM

I find Dennis far more believable than Blab-face or Hitlery!..for what its worth..

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 12:24 AM

Yeah but I said "electable" GfS.........Only us nuts (Buckeyes) in Ohio would elect Dennis.........and we do.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 12:10 AM

Catspaw, If memory serves me right, didn't you favor Kucinich?(who in my opinion, was better than, 'Oblabbo' (as I used to call him)...jeez, ol' GfS calls 'em right!

And Bobert...poor Bobert...you incurable Democratic optimist!..but, sooner or later, you'll see that BOTH parties are as fucked up as I've been tellin' ya'!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 08:34 PM

The problem here is that we never know just what size balls anyone has until they win a second term...

I'm holding out hope that Obama has been playin' middle of the road so he will get a 2nd term and in that 2nd term he will mess the right up royally...

Hey, it's the system...

I'd much rather see presidents elected for a single 6 year terms so they wouldn't have to waste the first on playing Mickey Mouse president...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 07:41 PM

Good point Art!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 07:28 PM

England a US colony? Can't we get someplace nice?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 06:38 PM

Well, at lease SOME people in England.....

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 06:15 PM

Yeah....She could start with England.....................


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 06:01 PM

Can you imagine Billary with a mandate? OMFG the USA would be at war with the rest of the world, and its colonies would extend into space.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 03:03 PM

I dunno' why I cleaned that expression up..............but let me just stay truthful and say, "one is the size of a pea and the other is real tiny."

I feel better...........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 02:58 PM

I voted for Obama but he was simply the best choice electable. I was hopeful I'd be wrong in my misgivings. Many here were rabid supporters and I said then that he just bothered me.......too many words without much behind them. He sadly proved me correct almost immediately on health care and does it again here. THIS whole fight was lost because the Repubs had seen Obama in action before.

Obama seems to believe the place to start a negotiation is in the middle. Then after initial discussions you cave in some more. In the end they toss him a scrap of gristle and fat and he declares it a Win-Win..................

Sorry Hillary didn't get in. She has far larger balls than Obama. I suppose he does have two but one is real small and the other very tiny.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 02:42 PM

Obama didn't 'win' anything, that wasn't already figured out!..It's all just theatrics!!...meanwhile, WE(the People) go broke, while the interest is figured into the budget, whose wonderful 'stimulus' went to the bankers and huge conglomerate corporations, that fill his cabinet..and then they tell us the 'recession' is over..BULLSHIT!..Maybe for them...but who is NOT getting represented???

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Stringsinger
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 09:45 AM

Obama may have won this round but the country is the loser.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 05:12 PM

I heard there was a deal at 33 billion, the seig heil brigade ratted on it and demanded much more and finished with 38 billion. Result - reward for bad behaviour.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 02:58 PM

And that's a fact, not a theory.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 02:56 PM

Simple. If one plays with a turd, one gets beshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 01:36 PM

Still waiting, Greg.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 10:38 AM

Gee, Greg, that pesky problem you have with reading is bothering you again, it seems.

I told you Obama won in the budget shutdown crunch, and exactly why this is so.   Then I asked politely for your counter-theory, since it seems you may possibly disagree with mine.

I can't tell you how surprised I am that despite being asked to provide your counter-theory, you have not found time to come up with one.   One might think that you are afraid you would not be able to defend your theory.   Whereas I am always perfectly ready to defend mine.

I'm sure there is another reason for your inability to actually come up with an idea of your own.

It couldn't possibly be that you are only used to issuing ex cathedra statements and you consider it an outrage to be asked to actually defend what you say.

Nah, no chance of that.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 10:29 AM

Richard--

Do you ever read sources for your comments any further right than Marx? Just asking.

And we're still waiting for your counsel on how to achieve the political perfection you now have in the UK.   Based on your track record I'm sure you can bring peace and perfection to the howling wilderness over here.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 08:20 AM

Simple Seeker always has a better everything for any and everything - in this case a better excuse for not providing the "evidence" he prates on & on about & requires from everyone but himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: artbrooks
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 08:07 AM

Wonder what agreement the UK press is saying existed. The Tea Party was demanding $100 billion in cuts, the more mainstream GOP began with $78 billion, and all they ended up with $38 billion. I never heard that anyone had agreed on anything, or that they were ever even close.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 04:48 AM

You have a better name for your right wing, Ron?

Since the USA presumes to make the world its colony, it must expect the judgment of the world on its practices.

In this case your right wing nutter idiots chose to renege on an agreement and were rewarded for it.

Our right wing nutter idiots have done the same on their promises to the electorate, have sown the seeds of wind and will reap the electoral whirlwind in due course (after tea, of course, this is England).

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 09:31 PM

"ideological purity"

QED

By the way, Richard, how many times were you planning to vote in the US 2012 election?

You've done such a marvelous job in the UK politically, we desperately need your counsel, in order to achieve the perfect bliss you now enjoy.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 09:26 PM

Au contraire, dear Greg.

If you would read my most recent post carefully, you would see I in fact invite counter-theories to mine.

But it would be nice if a bit of logic--and a minimum of shopworn catchall leftist epithets--"fascist" for instance-- were included. I wonder if you could manage that.

We'll soon see.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Amos
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 08:13 PM

I don't know what all the sarcastic bitterness is, but I think Obama held the moral high ground to a large degree and is seen as having one the scrap. Now he has to take the input from the right and fold it into his future plan. I would be glad to see him find an acceptable middle ground in which neither plutocrats nor extreme socialists carry the day. We're about hammering out an acceptable truth in the middle ground, I think.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 02:20 PM

Worm, Do Not Question the Simple Seeker- the ultimate authority and fountainhead of all truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 02:06 AM

What bit of - agreement reached - agreement broken with impunity - worse deal coerced - do you not understand or do you think counts as anything less than a defeat?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 12:40 AM

"Hardly a win"...."the lying bastard fascists won"

Don't worry. I think we know it's not reasonable to expect anybody far left of center to understand anything about strategic thinking--or indeed anything beyond ideological purity.

But for the rest of us, it's about living in the real world.

Point is:    Obama had no choice.   He had to sign whatever budget bill came out of Congress.   He could not afford to have the government shut down, even partially, since that would hurt the economy.    And the economy is what he will have to run on in 2012 (a fact we cannot expect our friends on the Left to grasp.)

He was lucky (or skilled) that the cut was only $39 billion this fiscal year (and that much of it will be taken care of by accounting gimmicks).

If the amount had been higher and/ or he had refused to sign (no doubt the brilliant counsel of our leftist friends), the Republicans would have had a good case to take to the voters:   

1)   Democrats, in all the time they had majorities in both Houses, could not even pass a budget for any department this fiscal year.

2)   Democrats are so incompetent and so careless with taxpayers' funds that not only do they not care about mortgaging the futures of our children and grandchildren by refusing to do anything about the huge and growing deficit we now have, but they are in fact so criminally obstructionist that they will not even allow those see the danger of the deficit (us Republicans, of course) to start to deal with the problem.

And these arguments would have played well , not just with Republicans, but with independents---and the independents will tell the tale on whether the President is re-elected in 2012 or not.

That's why Obama was trapped.

And he escaped the trap.

With the added bonus that now the Tea Party is unhappy with its own (Republican) leadership.

If anybody disagrees with this analysis, let's have a well-reasoned counter-argument.

Sorry, that is different from a jargon-infested leftist rant.


Some posters need to get out from their own echo-chamber and hear what the world outside Mudcat is thinking.   Believe it or not, Mudcat posters are not the president's chief concern.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 05:06 PM

No, the lying bastard fascists won. Why reached and agreement. They ratted on it. They blackmailed the country with threats of shutdown. They extorted another 7 or 8 billion - from the poor.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: artbrooks
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 04:15 PM

Overall, I think he did pretty well - considering the GOP was after his ass. AP story

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Stringsinger
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 03:56 PM

Artbrooks, any cuts in a recession or a financial depression is a losing proposition regardless of what specific cuts are mentioned. We know that these cuts will be in social services, education, head start, Planned Parenthood (later) and other worthy safety nets for children, elderly and poorer Americans because the Republicans have told us so. What more do you need to know? I think any thinking American can really say.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 05:53 PM

Some people are saying the GOP won and some are saying the Dems won. Since there has been no announcement of where the cuts are coming from, who can really say?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 03:10 PM

One can certainly cut the Military and Medicare and Social Security, without touching the poor. If you cut it right. A lot of older people have plenty of money, a minority to be sure, but plenty of older people have plenty of money. They say that a means test would be undemocratic. But there is a means test for Government support for younger people.   

Perhaps a means test would not be necessary if all personal income was taxed for Medicare and SS.

What we also need is to fight the Tea Party/GOP Rich people looby BS about tax breaks creating jobs with with real numbers to get a little help on the revenue side.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Stringsinger
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 01:31 PM

Obama has lost to Republicans on this one. 39 billion in important social cuts isn't hay. They nailed him on wedge social issues. Hardly a win but an inglorious defeat.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 10:42 AM

$78 billion in cuts to the US military announced already - it remains to be seen if that is the bottom line, but probably not.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 10:35 AM

like restoring taxes to the levels they were during the Eisenhower Administration...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 10:33 AM

Debt reduction calls for measures neither party wishes to propose - like cutting the biggest items like the military...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 09:28 PM

Remember Bill Clinton in the days when we were actually reducing the national debt significantly. Something bad happened when what's his name was elected to the presidency. And it hasn't been tempered by the Obama Administration.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 08:31 PM

I tend to ignore talking heads. I think we'll all have to wait and see what the proposal really is - supposedly to be announced tomorrow. I don't know that I think anything should be entirely off the table.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: kendall
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 07:57 PM

They just announced that Obama is considering cutting the military, Medicare and Medicaid. Balance the books on the backs of the poor as usual.
And still not one of the Wall Street thieves is in jail.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Fortunato
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 03:18 PM

Not surprisingly, Ron, I am with you on this.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 03:08 PM

Debt reduction calls for measures neither party wishes to propose- like increasing the retirement age 5 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 10:09 AM

Thanks again, Greg, for your wonderful insightful comments--full of facts and cogent reasoning.    Or maybe not.

If you don't think Obama has won more than the Republicans, exactly why not?    And if you think the Tea Party is happy with Boehner, please tell us why.

Congratulations for staying out of the gutter, however--so far. I know it's a struggle.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 06:37 PM

Just watch.

No, Simple, I'll wait & see; both RE: the Civil War & the Dem's "escaping".

Never have been much on fortune tellers. Do you use Tarot or a crystal ball, or maybe bones?

Remember what Yogi Berra said about the 1973 National League pennant race.

PS: If (when?) your predictions don't pan out, I expect you'll admit you were wrong, yes?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 05:28 PM

"and the presidency"

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 05:26 PM

Thanks, Greg, for your indispensable contribution--full of useful information, as always.


As far as "huge majorities" are concerned, what EBarnacle says is of course quite correct.

Remember what Will Rogers said about being a Democrat.


Problem is, that for the country at large that excuse for not passing any department's budget in the whole time the Democrats officially had the majority in both houses--anbd the presidency-- would be seen as just that:   a flimsy excuse.

The Republicans could--and would--have ridden that horse quite a distance.

Therefore they were in a stronger position last night than the Democrats.   And from the standpoint of the firebrands in the "tea party"   they got very little of what they wanted from this deal.   In the few past weeks I read in the free conservative rag you can get on the DC subway quite a few columns by "tea party" supporters urging the Republican leadership to let the government be shut down if they did not get at least $60 billion in cuts this fiscal year. In fact some "tea party" people campaigned on exactly that promise.

So there will be bitter disappointment by the "tea party" at the the result. And they will take it out on Boehner.    Just watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 01:07 PM

Obama and the Democrats.   They escaped the wrath of the public.   And now comes the civil war on the Right.

Unless Simple Seeker's omniscience extends to predicting the future, these prognostications are a bit premature.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 12:11 PM

No Obama lost the war last year when he caved in on the tax breaks/revenue side in exchange for a couple of extra months of unemployment insurance.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Stringsinger
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 12:06 PM

Trouble is that Obama gave away the store as he did when he backed down from the tax breaks for the wealthy. He wasn't FDR, that's for sure.

I think the reason for this is that Obama is going to spend a billion dollars on his re-election campaign. Where do you think he's going to get the money?

The initials might be "Goldman Sachs".

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: kendall
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 08:31 AM

A rose, by any other name... We call that politics.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 08:27 AM

In Australia, it is not legal to attach all that sort of unrelated crap to 'money bills'. Full Stop.
That's yer problem right there mate ... ;-)
We call it 'corruption' ...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: EBarnacle
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 07:53 AM

"Huge majorities" is a relative matter. The fundamental problem is that Obama, even with his mandate, came in trying to work with the Republicans. As such, when the rules of the Senate were on, they did not do what the Republicans under Bush II had done: essentially eliminate the power of the filibuster.

Unless you have the supermajority needed to overcome this, you are crippled when the opposition says "We don't care how much you wish to work with us, we don't want to work with you." The issue was not the effort to govern bipartisanally, the issue in this case was "are you willing to be the bad guy in public?"

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 07:32 AM

"President Obama's initiatives"

And yes, the Democrats will take some blame for the brinksmanship--but the Republicans come out of this much worse, for the reasons i have cited.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 07:28 AM

"huge majorities" of course, up to the 2010 elections.

Which of course, no matter how many Neanderthals on the Right may protest, were not a rejection of the health care plan nor any other of President Obama's initiative---nor anything but a vote of frustration on the poor economy.

Subject: BS: Obama wins on shutdown threat
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 07:21 AM

I see no reason to contribute to a thread which uses stupidly gratuitous gutter language even in its title.

The subject is worthy of better than that.





And in fact it's clear to me, though some of the instant analysis I've read so far disagrees:

Obama won this game of chicken handily.

Main reason:

The "tea party" did not get close to its required $100 billion in cuts this fiscal year. It did not even get $60 billion.   The figure I've seen is $39 billion.


And the "tea party" is full of true believers who think "compromise" is the worst kind of gutter language.

So now everybody in the center or left of center will have the pleasure of witnessing one of the most vicious civil wars on the Right that we have seen.    The "tea party" will not be happy with what Boehner has agreed with.

And the true believers in "social issues" have also lost bigtime.   The vote on defunding Planned Parenthood has been stripped out of the must-pass budget bill. And there is no way the opponents of Planned Parenthood will win the vote when it comes up.


And make no mistake:   Obama and the Democrats were in big trouble up to last night.   A shutdown would have hurt the economy--a hugely more important factor than in 1995.

Furthermore, the Republicans had an unanswerable argument on the budget problem:   you Democrats had huge majorities in both Houses and were still unable to pass one budget bill.   Why should you be trusted with governing.?

The Republicans were in an extremely powerful position last night--but they blinked anyway.

Obama had to sign whatever bill came out on the budget, regardless of how many riders poisonous to his base were buried in the bill.

But he and the Democrats got those riders stripped out.


There's no question who comes out of this sorry affair the best:   Obama and the Democrats.   They escaped the wrath of the public.   And now comes the civil war on the Right.

And the economy can continue to recover.