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BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!!
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: JohnInKansas Date: 03 Sep 11 - 07:32 AM Many disappointments with battery powered devices probably are the result of "overly casual" tool selection. Although people tend to think of things like "drill motors" (the common US term to distinguish them from "drill presses") as being pretty generic, there are distinctly different kinds best suited to specific jobs. Battery powered "drills" are frequently used for driving screws, frequently with the same machine used to drill a pilot hole and make a countersink for the drill head. For driving the screw a relatively low rpm is preferable, and while it's necessary to have sufficient torque to start the screw too "powerful" a driver may run it "clear through the board" unless the machine incorporates an adjustable torque limiter that actually works. Although variable speed motors are fairly common, some are too senstive for good control of the primary speed, and some are insufficiently responsive for quick cut-off when your screw bottoms. "Too big" a motor may have too much "motor inertia" for even a very good torque limiter to cut off rotation quickly enough when that's needed. If you happen to want to drill lots of small holes through fairly thin sheetmetal, as for body & fender work, a relatively high "motor inertia" may be helpful for breaking past the inevitable "bit grab" as the bit breaks through, although too much inertia may crack your knuckles (and/or break lots of bits) on the inevitable "tough grabs." A "real pro" would be likely to want separate "drills" for structural fasteners (really high torque) and for plasterboard and trim installation (fairly wimpy torque). A third one for drilling metal might be a good idea. The relative advantages of battery or line power may vary with each kind of use. Most of us can't have enough tools to always have the best for every job so it's worth even more attention to getting what's right for what we do most. For drilling mostly larger holes, it's generally better to have both somewhat higer maximum rpm available (esp. if a variable speed model is used) and somewhat higher maximum torque if using "bits;" but with lower rpm, retaining high torque, for hole saws and the like. Older NiCad batteries (and other ancient types) do self-discharge between use sessions, while the newer Lithium Ion types are significantly better at holding a charge in storage. Either kind will die an early death if left too long on a charger, unless the charger is a better than average one and has voltage sensing circuitry to "pulse-trickle" - cutoff when charging is complete, and pulse on only when voltage drops. It can be very difficult to charge any battery device properly without an indicator that shows when connection is made and separately indicates when charging is at least nominally complete. For most "hand tools" it may be best to have the indicator(s) on the charger rather than built into the tool, but absence of any indicatior is not a good thing. New rechargeable batteries generally will be "uncharged" when received, and should be fully charged before the first use. Premature use, without a full charge, may permanently reduce the "ultimate battery capacity." With NiCad batteries, some recommend occasionally completely discharging and then recharging to "reform" them, due to a "memory effect" that reduces capacity with repeated partial discharge/recharge cycling. Some "authorities" say that once charged, completely discharging, or repeated deep discharge cycling Lithium batteries can greatly reduce their ability to take a full charge, so it's probably best to recharge before the output fades by much. There is sufficient disagreement on "how to charge a battery" of any type that the best you can probably do is to follow the device maker's recommendations. If there are no instructions with the device you're considering, you might want to look at some alternative devices(?), since that maker probably thinks you just like replacing batteries with the ones he's eager to sell you. Batteries are generally good for high initial output, but not so good for sustained high output. A "battery powered chainsaw" might be an excellent "brush trimmer" for cleaning the small twigs off what you've cut down with a real saw (or maybe with dynamite); but, as mentioned, probably isn't really a chainsaw. A small line-powered electric chainsaw can be handy for working on the ground, but I probably wouldn't take mine up a tree. (Maybe I should say "send mine up ..." since I ain't likely be up there for any reason.) I do also have a small gas powered one for when the electric isn't quite up to what's needed, but some jobs just aren't worth the mixing, fueling, etc. required for all that gas power. And if you don't have enough big trees to need one, a bigger chainsaw doesn't get you much in real macho points from the pros. If you don't need a good log splitter at least once a year, a 14" - or maybe up to about 20" - chainsaw will probably do about all you're likely to need. (Of course, that's just one opinion, and your needs are different.) An alternative to battery powered tools, used quite handily by one acquaintance, is to strap an inverter onto the side of a truck battery and use common (and much cheaper) line-powered tools. He hasn't taken my advice to put the battery on a 2-wheeled dolly (yet). He does have a small almost-a-truck so he's a little space-limited. His rig works quite nicely around the camp. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: Will Fly Date: 03 Sep 11 - 06:54 AM All this talk of batteries and power tools is very poignant for me because - much as I love working with these things around the house - I have a rare physical condition which prevents me from doing anything much with them. The condition - known as Audiorachialgia - makes odd neural connections between the auditory part of the brain and the main spinal column. The upshot of all this is that certain words, such as "drilling", "sanding", "sawing", etc., trigger a nervous reaction which - on being heard - results in immediate and crippling back pain. In contrast, other words, such as "guitar", "session", "drink", etc., ease the pain and relax the body. My wife - good soul that she is - is very understanding, and has been so for a number of years. When these household jobs are tackled, I do as much as I physically can - things like handing her the drill chuck and selecting the right bit when she asks for it, holding the wood while she saws through it, and so forth. I do my bit, in spite of the pain. But, you know - just now and then - I wish I could hold a powerful tool in my hand and get right down to business... ah well, back to the guitar. |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: JohnInKansas Date: 02 Sep 11 - 11:01 PM Slightly off the topic of handiperson tools, a new headline that just popped up says: Bad batteries in defibrillators tied to cardiac deaths "More than 1,000 deaths in 15 years linked to AED failures, new research finds" Not a deep analysis, but perhaps of interest even if only because you're worried about friends who might have a need; and only takes a minute or so to read. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: Midchuck Date: 02 Sep 11 - 10:31 PM I received, today, a Hitachi compact drill/driver that I got on Woot. It has the Lithium-ion battery, which, as I understand it, makes the cordless tools a whole different deal. Surprise was, it arrived fully charged. Works great, so far. The drill, with battery, and a flashlight/spotlight that also works off the battery, were pennies under a hundred ($US) total - but the batteries alone sell on various web sites for $55 to $65. So it bloody well better hold a charge well. P. |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: Gurney Date: 02 Sep 11 - 09:13 PM Joe Offer, I think you will strike problems about the guarantee if it was bought on an account. I generally buy tools at the building supplies yard, on my account, and that's where B&D repairman picked it up. I'm not too sanguine about DeWalt tools, either. My 9" saw fell from a sawhorse and bent, and my pal's drill fell one story onto a lawn and broke into two. The planer is very good, but a plastic part broke off. The only brand I've owned where the plastic is a bit suspect. I have an old 7.25" Skil brand saw that has been used to cut concrete and tiles with an abrasive/ablative blade for years, and is as tight as it ever was. On the other hand, a Skil drill battery died a week after the guarantee expired, and that was only my back-up! I like Hitachi tools, but some tend to require consumables in non-standard sizes which only Hitachi supply. My Ryobi sander has required only a drivebelt in 10 years, but they come in two quality levels, handyman & tradesman. The Ryobi drillpress was cheap, and it isn't very good, the belt slips. They've modified them now and I believe they are better. You pays your money and you takes your choice. And you sometimes gets what you paid for. |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: Amos Date: 01 Sep 11 - 10:11 PM Makita has more patents in the battery and charger universe than all the other toolmakers put together. They own the idea space in batteries for tools. Just an additional observation. They have some very smart simontists workin' for they. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: Ed T Date: 01 Sep 11 - 10:10 PM Is the 'lectric saw or 'lectric razor here? Saw history |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: gnu Date: 01 Sep 11 - 08:32 PM r1... "... if you're not afraid of it, you shouldn't be using it." You got that roight Clary! I am ascared a them rigs. Only time I ever used one was to fell a large tree when it became too physically demanding to use an axe. I felled a lot a trees with an axe. Trimmed em up with an axe and chunked em with a bucksaw. But, age and such takes a toll eh? Sometimes, ya gotta defer ta mechanical advantage... even when it's dangerous. |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: ranger1 Date: 01 Sep 11 - 08:11 PM Joe, you need me to come out there and show how to use it? And as my chainsaw safety instructor told us in class: if you're not afraid of it, you shouldn't be using it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: gnu Date: 01 Sep 11 - 08:09 PM Every chainsaw is dedly. Just ask me uncle Pegleg. |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: Joe Offer Date: 01 Sep 11 - 06:38 PM Yeah, but I was really hurt when Ranger1 said my 'lectric chainsaw isn't really a chainsaw. I don't care. I'm still scared of it.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: Ed T Date: 01 Sep 11 - 06:35 PM Ed Gein, (inspired the Texas Chainsaw massacre) did not use a cordless drill. |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: JohnInKansas Date: 01 Sep 11 - 06:24 PM kat - Can you turn that down a bit. I can hardly hear ya. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: katlaughing Date: 01 Sep 11 - 06:09 PM Thanks for that, JohninKS! |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: Joe Offer Date: 01 Sep 11 - 05:25 PM A number of applications have warranties that don't apply to commercial or professional use. I use my tools and faucets and door locks mostly at the women's center where I do maintenance work, but I've never been questioned about how the item was used. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: GUEST,Jon Date: 01 Sep 11 - 05:15 PM I don't think Black and Decker branded tools would be guaranteed for that in the UK either. They do make DeWalt tools though which, like Makita, are aimed at the professional market. |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: open mike Date: 01 Sep 11 - 05:15 PM i used to have a Skil 12 v cordless tool set that had cordless drill, flashlight and compressor. the compressor was great for pumping up tires, inner tubes, air mattresses, etc, but it broke after a while. the rest of the tools worked until they got taken out by the forest fire that ate my house...there was an accessory which made it possible to use it while plugged into 120 volt house current as well, in case you were using it near a power outlet. I just replaced this tool with one from PORTER CABLE, which has a drill/driver, reciprocating saw, and circular saw....i have not had a chance to use it yet, but it is 18 V and i have high hopes....well, that is what the ant said, no? oh, yes, i just remembered i sometimes used the drill / driver to power a blender for campsite beveredges, and also sometimes used a wire whip instead of a drill bit...a woman's touch!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: Gurney Date: 01 Sep 11 - 05:02 PM The very latest type of batteries hold their charge much longer (than all the ones that I own) when not being used. They also cost three times as much, and need a different charger. The reason that you see Makita in tradesmen's toolkits is that they honour their guarantee for professional usage. Black and Decker do not, at least not here. The life of three pairs of batteries is about the life of the drill. There are Makita copy batteries about, so buy from a reputable dealer. Makita drills are also made in China, at least my two were. Can't tell about the batteries. |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: gnu Date: 01 Sep 11 - 04:14 PM EBarnacle. Thanks! I amgonna try that. Yeah... I had a good one of one of the brands mentioned. But, when Chinese Tire was offering so cheap and I needed a replacement I figured I would try it. But, if it's too good to be true... eh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: EBarnacle Date: 01 Sep 11 - 11:49 AM Several years ago, I was talking with an area rep for Yaesu. We we discussing the battery on my handheld marine radio. When I complained that it would not hold a good charge, he asked me whether I had stuck it in the freezer? It sems that, for some reason I fail to understand, freezing a discharged rechargeable battery for several days brings them back to life. Let them thaw for a day or two before charging. Tell your friends. Save money. |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: Bill D Date: 01 Sep 11 - 11:22 AM "...an electric chainsaw isn't really a chainsaw..." Well, not for juggling purposes.... ☺ |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: ranger1 Date: 01 Sep 11 - 10:10 AM Rap, you do realize that an electric chainsaw isn't really a chainsaw, right? |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: Rapparee Date: 01 Sep 11 - 10:02 AM Got two Ryobi batteries and keep 'em charges, exchanging a full one and a discharged one every now and then so I have the drill ready for whenever. I'm going to convert my corded power drill into a light duty drill press. We have a corded McCullough chain saw (good enough for use around the house and yard), and while I do have several sorts of powered saws (corded) I tend to use hand saws in the shop. (Ever tried to make a mortise cut with a chainsaw?) |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: Richard Bridge Date: 01 Sep 11 - 03:33 AM I think it's a case of horses for courses. I have a crappy battery drill, but the whole damned thing cost a score (£20) off ebay. The batteries self-discharge, and there is only enough grunt to wind the legs of the caravan up and down a couple of times (what I bought it for) but each battery lasts long enough to get the backs off two Marshall stacks and then there is another to put it back on and I suppose I only use it every couple of weeks. If I was earning my living with it then I could justify paying ten times the price for a much better tool, but for a hobby jobby it doesn't make sense. Now hedgetrimmer or chainsaw I would not have anything but petrol. The power is essential. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: MAN WHO TURNS THE DAMN ... (Silverstein) From: JohnInKansas Date: 01 Sep 11 - 02:38 AM Now who started all the dirty inuendos about "batteries?" Artist: Shel Silverstein lyrics Title: The Man Who Turns The Damn Thing Off And On The world's not what it used to be In love or war or industry. We face the harsh reality That this sweet land of liberty Now contemplates eternity Plugged into electricity And programmed by technology For maximum efficiency. For instance, see What happened to me...
When I went down to the factory,
"And be the man who turns the damn thing off and on." |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: GUEST,PeterC Date: 01 Sep 11 - 01:53 AM I have a brilliant telescopic cordless hedge trimmer bought several years ago from Coopers of Stortford. Came with two batteries which are still going strong and which have tons of welly. I have one of those as well, excellent piece of kit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: Joe Offer Date: 01 Sep 11 - 01:41 AM I gotta admit, there is an element of kinkiness in the thread title.... Where's Spaw when you need him? |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 01 Sep 11 - 01:40 AM Damn!! The goes the vibrator! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: katlaughing Date: 31 Aug 11 - 11:20 PM Well, you guys could sure get a girl all hot and bothered! I'm sure we could reciprocate in getting those kinks out! |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: JohnInKansas Date: 31 Aug 11 - 10:54 PM Bobert asks: How about vibrators??? The answer is that they don't make 'em any more. I'm still using the one my daddy bought for his barber shop in 1946, and when he went back a month later to get one for a customer that wanted "one like you got" they said they quit makin' em like that. What you can get now will "hummmmmm" but there ain't none of 'em that'l V I B R A T E ! ! ! Of course I'm talkin' about the AC powered ones. At my age my aches and pains need "assertive assistance," and the namby pamby pItty-pat just don't get the kinks out. I NEED POWER DOWN TO THE BONE. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: Bill D Date: 31 Aug 11 - 10:42 PM ummm...Rap...my set of stuff WAS from Ryobi. The driver has stopped working and the batteries are not holding a charge well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: michaelr Date: 31 Aug 11 - 09:51 PM Bosch. Go German. |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: Joe Offer Date: 31 Aug 11 - 09:39 PM I by cheap tools at places like Harbor Freight for the women's center where I do volunteer maintenance work, because my tools tend to disappear there. For the house, I bought a 14.4 volt Black and Decker drill in 2002, and I've barely used the more expensive drills two tool sets I've bought since then because the B&D is so light and reliable. The first tool set was from Coleman, and it wasn't very good. The second set was a Craftsman C3 18-volt, and the saws in the set are excellent. The drill looks pretty good, but it's so much heavier than the B&D drill that's still working so well. But yeah, I'd swear by battery powered tools. Some places on my 3-1/2 acre lot are a long, long way from an electrical outlet. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: GUEST,999 I forget to write my numbers. Date: 31 Aug 11 - 09:07 PM 31 Aug 11 - 08:58 PM |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: Bert Date: 31 Aug 11 - 09:06 PM I've taken to buying at Harbor Freight more often now. Sometimes the tool only lasts for the one job, but that's all you pay for so when it lasts longer that's a bonus. |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: Rapparee Date: 31 Aug 11 - 09:04 PM I buy quality stuff, like Ryobi. Other stuff, well, if I really, really need it at the time, but I don't expect much from it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: number 6 Date: 31 Aug 11 - 09:01 PM I suggest you buy your tools at Sears gnu. ok I'm outta here. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: Bill D Date: 31 Aug 11 - 08:59 PM I 2nd Ed's post. I have a Makita battery for my older cordless drill/driver that is 10+ years old and still charges fine. I bought a 'bargain' import set of stuff built around another battery... and the batteries not only wear out, but discharge when not being used. I have to do some computing about what to do when they totally wear out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: GUEST,Jon Date: 31 Aug 11 - 08:59 PM I'm happy with the Royobi One+ hammer drill, drill and garden sprayer we have. I've also got the jigsaw in the range. It's OK for ply but not much more. That said, I've found the same with every other (chorded) jigsaws I had execpt my current chorded DeWalt. Maybe one does need to be looking at a DeWalt or a Matika for a jigsaw? |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: GUEST Date: 31 Aug 11 - 08:58 PM I was working for a drywall wholesaler--that also supplied drywall tools--in Calgary many years back (late '70s) when Makita came into the North American market. AWESOME. One of the demonstrations I did in sales was ask a prospective buyer to throw the drill at the brick wall. They would and then we'd try out the drill. Worked every time. They ain't the TOP top of the line, but they are one darned good working machine. |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: Ed T Date: 31 Aug 11 - 08:47 PM When it comes to cordless power tools, buy quality, not Canadian Tire (Mastercraft or the lower quality Job Mate). Black and Decker is now only marginally better. I buy Makita. Their 12 Volt is about the same a CT 18 volt, and the batteries last much, much longer. You rarely see a tradesman buy a power tool at CT (unless it's for a gift for their aged grandmother):) Check out their tool boxes and you frequently see Makita. |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: gnu Date: 31 Aug 11 - 08:29 PM ClaireBear... weeks? I thought that after four hours one was supposed to seek medical attention? Hmmm... there's a joke there about... ahhh... nevermind. You owe me one. >;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO MORE BATTERY POWERED TOOLS!!! From: gnu Date: 31 Aug 11 - 08:05 PM Chinese Tire... hahahahahahaaa... I LOVE it! GOOD ONE! Can't wait to use it. You see what they are building in The Big Smoke? It's HUGE. The big ship from China (soon to be another one if not already), laded and off loaded by computer (robots) onto rail in BC has a four day sail AND turnaround! The train parks inside Crappy's new distribution warehouse in TO and computers unload and redistribute. You ever been to Crappy's website? It is the envy of all of the world's retailers (near as I know). Many are copying it. It'll make buying cheap Chinese crap easy for everyone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: No More Battery Powered Tools!!! From: katlaughing Date: 31 Aug 11 - 07:55 PM LOL!! Puir gnu...no shouting, either, darlin'gnu.:-)(Think of your blood pressure!*bg*) katmod:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO MORE BATTERY POWERED TOOLS!!! From: ClaireBear Date: 31 Aug 11 - 07:49 PM Kendall has a quality tool that lasts for weeks, and you don't think Jacqui knows about it? I'm confused... |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO MORE BATTERY POWERED TOOLS!!! From: GUEST,999 Date: 31 Aug 11 - 07:38 PM Until it comes to Chinese Tire you seem to be a somewhat rational man, Gnu. So, I have to ask, what is the attraction you have for quality tools that you keep buying from CT? They don't work? Sheesh, man, they work for a while! WHAT more do you want? Ya want a fu#kin' drill that lasts weeks? This attitude will NOT stand us in good stead when we get to Kendall's (don't tell Jacqui). No offense. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO MORE BATTERY POWERED TOOLS!!! From: Steve Shaw Date: 31 Aug 11 - 07:36 PM I have a brilliant telescopic cordless hedge trimmer bought several years ago from Coopers of Stortford. Came with two batteries which are still going strong and which have tons of welly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO MORE BATTERY POWERED TOOLS!!! From: Bobert Date: 31 Aug 11 - 07:31 PM How about vibrators??? B~ |
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Subject: BS: NO MORE BATTERY POWERED TOOLS!!! From: gnu Date: 31 Aug 11 - 07:30 PM %*^&*^*$%&&*&*ing Crappy Tire CRAP! On sale... $60 for an 18V hand drill. Two baterries, a case, a charger, a FIVE year warranty. What a BUY! Read the fine print. The drill carries a 5 year warranty. The batteries... one year. Cost of a battery... $37. Life of a battery... one year and a %^&&$^^*&ing day! No more. If it don't run on AC it don't get bought. An extension cord is a lot cheaper and I have lots of them anyway. Arrrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhhh!!!! X 10!!!! Cheap Chinese crap! PS... Crappy Tire = Canadian Tire stores. grrrrrrrr |
