Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: Vic Smith Date: 14 May 20 - 06:29 AM Richard - you make me feel guilty. I have over 100 recordings of Gordon to digitise and ad to the Sussex Traditions database but other projects -my own and commissions - keep coming to the top of my 'to do' list In the meantime, could I refer you to the 242 items - articles, recordings, references etc. that you can find on the SxT database at https://sussextraditions.org/collection/page/24/?search_query=gordon%20hall |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: Richard Mellish Date: 14 May 20 - 04:39 AM Yes Vic, do please put that one up. Gordon Hall is always worth hearing. |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: The Sandman Date: 14 May 20 - 02:04 AM thanks i remember andrew knight and also his father who was always at whitby recording everything in the singarounds, thanks |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: Ross Campbell Date: 13 May 20 - 08:03 PM Matthew Wilson has put up (on Soundcloud) a huge collection of his family's recordings going back decades. Search for "Knight, Briggs et al". There are gems in that collection. Among them is this version of Barbara Allen, by my old friend Andrew Knight (RIP). I haven't been able to identify the source of this variation which unusually has a refrain. Any suggestions would be welcome. Ross https://soundcloud.com/knight-briggs-et-al/andrew-knight-barbara-ellen |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: Vic Smith Date: 11 May 20 - 09:38 AM I have recorded versions of both, Dick, and can tell you that his Lord Randall is a mere fragment in comparison. |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: The Sandman Date: 11 May 20 - 08:34 AM put it up vic, please it might be shorter than his.version of lord randall |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: The Sandman Date: 11 May 20 - 08:24 AM i prefer joan baez or burlives version to art thieme no offence to any mudcatters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTg1zOzij4I |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: Vic Smith Date: 11 May 20 - 07:25 AM I could put up the recorded version that I have of Gordon Hall's version of Barbara Allen but some of the contributors here are getting on on years and might not live to hear all of it..... |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: GUEST,Gerry Date: 11 May 20 - 05:29 AM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPG6gVnhZeY Art Thieme (Cowboy's Barbara Allen). |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: The Sandman Date: 11 May 20 - 04:46 AM Sarah makem had an interesting version too |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: The Sandman Date: 11 May 20 - 04:26 AM I prefer joe heaneys version to any of the other trad singers and to Ewan MacColls |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: The Sandman Date: 11 May 20 - 04:25 AM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o5Lm1b8KGY JOE HEANEY |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: The Sandman Date: 11 May 20 - 04:14 AM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqHJ4V893e0 JOAN BAEZ |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: The Sandman Date: 11 May 20 - 04:12 AM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs-A0tIsrjg Ewan MacColl |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: The Sandman Date: 11 May 20 - 04:09 AM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WjccsBqoGE jean redpath |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: The Sandman Date: 11 May 20 - 03:54 AM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzgTZ6v4P6s sarah makem |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: The Sandman Date: 11 May 20 - 03:44 AM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgP3xoOrJic |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: The Sandman Date: 11 May 20 - 03:39 AM >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqHJ4V893e0 |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: The Sandman Date: 11 May 20 - 03:30 AM interesting to see John Meredith. Carrie used little ornamentation in her style |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: Tony Rees Date: 11 May 20 - 01:18 AM This song was still being sung in the oral tradition in Australia in the 1990s, in the repertoire of the Bobbin family of Eden, New South Wales, who cut timber from the forests for many generations: John Meredith recording Carrie Milliner (1993) - Tony |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: GUEST,Pseudonymous Date: 10 May 20 - 06:40 PM It comes from old English/Norse. |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: Jim Carroll Date: 10 May 20 - 02:50 PM It's a Northern expression too Dick - and Cunberland D'ye ken John Peel Jim |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: The Sandman Date: 10 May 20 - 01:10 PM pseud and henry p,i have only heard it used in recent times by scottish people, it is certainly not a london expression or an east anglian or midland expession, do you ken john peel was a cumberland hunting song. it indicates that it was a border expression? |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: GUEST,Pseudonymous Date: 10 May 20 - 12:40 PM I agree that the word 'ken' is not solely or necessarily Scottish. |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: Jim Carroll Date: 10 May 20 - 08:42 AM Don't know if it's temporary, but the notes are no longer available for the album, but Seeger's study can be found elsewhere There's also masses of information on the incredibly helpful 'Bluegrass Messenger' site Jim |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: Jim Carroll Date: 10 May 20 - 08:34 AM The ballad is timeless and has no boundaries CLARE VERSION Peggy Seeger's father Charles made an extensive study of it's history and tunes and issued an album of 31 variants- my personal favourites being the first by I N Marlor, Boyd's Cove, NC and the last by black Texas convict, Moses 'Clear Rock' Platt The notes of the Library of Congress albums are usually available for free download from Smithsonian should anybody be interested Jim |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: GUEST,henryp Date: 10 May 20 - 08:21 AM Dick, d'ye ken John Peel? From around 1824. |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: Vic Smith Date: 10 May 20 - 08:11 AM This is the start of a review which I wrote in 2006 If you want to read it in its entirety, you will have to follow this link to https://www.mustrad.org.uk/reviews/rumscum.htm "When I first got involved with folk songs, I wasn't really sure what I was looking for. I knew what I didn't want; I didn't want to hear any schoolmarmy voices singing the likes of: |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: The Sandman Date: 10 May 20 - 07:36 AM I first heard this song as a child in the fifties a cleaner woman who was irish used to sing it while working. i dont know its exact origin, the versions i sing use the word ken which is a scottish dialect word |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: Jim Carroll Date: 10 May 20 - 07:17 AM We know for certain that these ballads have been around for a lot longer than people have formerly suggested - all Pepys's statement proves is that Bab's was an old lady at the time of the Great Fire of London I'm just trying to (carefully) scan the fascination dissertation on the old songs and legends from our crumbly 2nd edition of Wedderburn's Complaynt of Scotland for a friend and am struck by actually how long these motifs have been around 'The Frog and the Mouse' was a comparative youngster There is not the slightest reason why Barbara Allen should not have originated in Svotland - or France, or Norway, or even ancient Greece Dying for love obviously pre-dates Orpheus - why should not the song Jim |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: Steve Gardham Date: 10 May 20 - 06:34 AM As far as I can make out there were 2 distinct versions of BA on the go in London in the 17th century. The well printed 'Scarlet Town' version I personally think is not the one, Mrs Knipp performed. I think she more likely sang the slightly more flowery 'Sir John Graeme' version printed by Ramsay a few decades later. This would better qualify for the descriptor 'Scotch'. But as they say, currently I have no proof of this, just a hunch. |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: Steve Gardham Date: 10 May 20 - 06:30 AM Not quite, GUEST. The specific word used was always 'Scotch'. Otherwise you are correct. In the 17th/18th centuries many stage songs were written and performed in a pseudo rustic/provincial style,(think Oirish) and much of the flowery stuff was written in mild pseudo-Scottish and referred to as 'Scotch'. Unfortunately for researchers a lot of the mush was adopted by Scots themselves and printed in such as Ramsay's tea-table Miscellany in the 1730s. |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: GUEST Date: 10 May 20 - 06:08 AM I believe that in the days of Pepys anything from north of London could be described as 'Scottish'. |
Subject: RE: Barbara Allen From: The Sandman Date: 10 May 20 - 04:49 AM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_PoPY-mDpA a different version |
Subject: Barbara Allen From: The Sandman Date: 10 May 20 - 04:35 AM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsJNCJUU4rE Pepys described this song as an old Scotch ballad |
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