BS: UK Census - sensless questions.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: selby
Date: 22 Apr 01 - 02:44 AM

DaveO I never particulally thought of that one but assumed as there are no recent ones to look at there must be a one hundred year wait until the info becomes available. I have been using the 1881 cencus recently and anything after that was avalable to me in relations memories, hence the time lag? Keith

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Apr 01 - 08:25 PM

We posted the bloody thing off yesterday

Oh dear, oh dear... You're for it now. Census day isn't until 29th April.

So question 9 asks whether I speak Welsh or not - I can't see why that shouldn't apply to people in England just as much as Wales.

Logically they'd have broadened it out to ask a question about languages in general, because there are a hell of a lot of household where English isn't the first language. That would have made a lot more sense than questions about "what is your ethnic group?" (I suppose if you were a "Morris dancer" you could put that down there - it'd be perfectly legal I believe, since it would be true, even if it wasn't what they were actually after.)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 21 Apr 01 - 07:04 PM

Look who has got my bloody form?-is there anyone else from the glorious city of Kingston upon Hull who is missing a form -are we getting one ? - have they decided to miss us out completely because they don't think we have a future or possibly because they don not think we can read? I'm getting paranoid now!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Apr 01 - 04:41 PM

Mr Red
We do not prefer Humberside, in fact we fought long and hard to get rid of what was only ever meant to be an administrative title.
As Les says, it is The City and County of Kingston Upon Hull

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 21 Apr 01 - 10:08 AM

How is a census supposed to be of value in genealogy (properly so spelled) if the answers are confidential?

DAve Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: RichM
Date: 21 Apr 01 - 07:58 AM

Like Willie-0, I've was a Canadian census taker, in 1991.
Met a lot of interesting people, curmudgeons, idealists, earnest worried people (worried about filling in the form correctly), kids, grandmas/pas, shift workers, and a lot of military families. My territory was part of a military base. Sat down with a man for an hour, persuading him why it was a *good* form to fill. Sigh. I wanted to do a good job of 'censing' but I wouldn't want to push people to complete the form.
I found out that we housed our military in slum-like homes- ok basic housing, but in great need of repair.

Found out that many professional soldiers had to take second jobs to support their families; not good.
The military recently got a small pay hike, the first in many years. I think the least you can do for your soldiers when they "stand on guard for thee", is to pay them an adequate wage! I was asked to stay on a month later to do the followup on the recalcitrants in several areas--I said no to that one. By that time it was high summer, and I had other things to do.
But the money was ok-particularly since I had no other job at the time...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Michael in Swansea
Date: 21 Apr 01 - 06:51 AM

You'll like this.
In Wales we have a choice of Welsh or English language form, question 9 asks
Allwch chi ddeall, siarad, darllen, neu ysgrifennu Cymraeg?
Can you understand, speak, read, or write Welsh?
There are 5 boxes to tick
Understand, Speak, Read, Write, None of the above.
I could fill the form in Welsh and tick "Dim un o'r uchod" (none of the above) The ethic group question asks (in Welsh) if I'm British Irish or Other?
Have fun

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: roopoo
Date: 21 Apr 01 - 04:24 AM

Today I have the whole family here, but on census day there will be just me and Ruth as usual. Now I know I have to fill in the "minimum" for those not here on the day and at uni or working away as is our case, but the buggers don't say where min ends and max starts! I have tried phoning the helpline but it's always busy. I don't know half the details of Ian's work, and even whether I need to! Last time we were all here and just sat round the table and did it!

What do I do with my mum's form? She died last week and it's leering at me from her hall table. Do I have to fill relevant bits in or return it with a covering note?

This Hull, Hell and Halifax thing: wasn't it referring to Hull jail, Hell, and Halifax gibbet/gallows?

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Ruthie A
Date: 20 Apr 01 - 02:37 PM

I did want to put my religion on the form down as something completely bizarre (I was contemplating Fnurple, which is a cult formed by my wind band on a very long coach journey to France), before I had a fit of guilt and truthfully wrote 'Wicca'. We posted the bloody thing off yesterday, whereupon it emerged that my 10-year-old sister (who has recently been studying the middle ages and is subsequently very scared about witch burning) wrote 'Ruth is not one of them at all so don't even think about it because it would be nasty and Amy said it would hurt a lot' on the back of the envolope, seemingly incase I should be prosecuted and roasted a bit. I always knew she'd be good for something!

Ruthie

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Apr 01 - 02:22 PM

Noone got any info on that mysterious Question Nine that people in England aren't being asked?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: selby
Date: 20 Apr 01 - 01:36 PM

Yes true but with the decline in burials and gravestones anything is better than nothing. Keith

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Apr 01 - 04:57 AM

Not sure if the new form will be that good for future geneologists, Selby. My wife is an amateur delver in the field and reckons omitting such questions as place of birth and details of parents etc will hamper future 'tree builders'. I think it does provide intersting information on types of work, traveling arrangements and educational requirements for future planning though.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: SINSULL
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 02:28 PM

A frined of mine received the long form a few years ago and had great fun describing his one bedroom apartment with multiple wives and children and no inddor plumbing.

I was once designated a "trackable " residence. Meaning that some silly woman, when she had nothing better to do, would come ringing my door bell (usually around 10:30PM) to discuss changes in my life style. This was supposed to continue until the next census. The night I finally refused, she left with a threat "You know I represent a FEDERAL agency! I can make your life difficult." My lawyer sorted that out with her boss.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: nutty
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 02:15 PM

There are 3 Broadsides in the BODLEIAN LIBRARY, OXFORD dealing with the census(es?) of 1861, 1881 and 1891.

They didn't think much of them then either.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: nutty
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 02:13 PM

There are 3 Broadsides in the BODLEIAN LIBRARY, OXFORD dealing with the census(es?) of 1861, 1881 and 1891.

They didn't think much of them then either.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: selby
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 01:44 PM

All though the modern census does seem to ask some rather irelevant questions eg are you looking for a job, have you ever worked etc. They have proved and will contine to prove a source of valuable information for people researching family trees. Keith

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 09:05 AM

but then I think she may have taken in consideration, whilst sorting my mail for me....

Hmmmm now she's not going to be able to focus for the next few days, let alone be back in to the swing of things - as she develops the good irish laid back ways when she is over there...

oh well... she really knows the aversion I have to these kind of things I reckon.

E

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 08:59 AM

I came home from Ireland for the Easter break to find mine filled in completely by my mom... great hey...

now THAT's what I consider service...

ahhhhhhh

lol

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: GUEST,Rag
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 08:18 AM

If enough people fill in Jedi for their religion, and it has to be recognised as a significant minority, does that mean that the police will have to recruit a certain level from that group...

A case of "may you be with the force..."

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Crazy Eddie
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 05:38 AM

RtS
How about Job Title "Plasterer"
Describe what you do "Get Plastered"

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: GUEST,Roger the skffler
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 04:44 AM

At least they don't ask us to name our top ten blues records....
RtS

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 04:30 AM

I was filling mine in last night and saw that the ethnic/cultural origins include 'British', which I duly ticked. This morning I read that "Foreign Secretary Robin Cook is due to make a speech saying the British are not a race and Britishness cannot be defined in terms of race or ethnic background." Well, bugger me! Does this mean I have lied on my senseless form and can now be prosecuted?

Had fun with the employment bit. Job title - Consultant. Describe what you do - Consultancy....

All true as well!

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Peg
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 02:33 AM

apparently (I hear from folks who have looked into this more closely than I have) if one writes "pagan" under religion it will be recorded as such, but if one writes some smaller category of paganism (such as Wicca, druid, etc.) it will simply be counted as "other" so there is now a campaign of sorts underway to get pagans to write in PAGAN as oposed to some more specific term...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: vindelis
Date: 18 Apr 01 - 07:45 PM

Yep or so I've been told. Apparently they have to make two attempts at delivering by hand before the form can be posted though the letter box. I'm still waiting for mine. Boy do these people earn their money.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Morticia
Date: 18 Apr 01 - 06:35 PM

Do they have to be delivered into your outstretched, eager (sic) hand then? That explains why we haven't had them, the hours we work the buggers will have to work overtime to catch up with us

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Bernard
Date: 18 Apr 01 - 05:48 PM

Cheeky buggers!

Yesterday they shoved an A5 sheet of paper through my letter box which proclaimed 'I called ... but you were out'

Lying toe-rags! I've been home ill for the past three days. They didn't ring the bloody bell!

Don't know why they bother with a senseless. They never take any notice of the findings!!

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Apr 01 - 05:36 PM

Well, ours has arrived. One intriguing element - there's a Question Nine heading - only there isn't a question nine, there's just a note saying that it doesn't apply in England. So what is this question we aren't being asked here?

Other points, I note that though you can opt for Irish as an ethnic group, their isn't an option for Scottish or Welsh. I imagine there'll be a lot of people using the option of "other", and writing-in Scottish or Welsh, the way we had to do with Irish in the last census.

And I can't imagine any problem with people writing-in pagan or Wicca, under the "other religion" heading. But "Jedi" I'd have thought shouldn't count as a religion, surely it's a religious order, like the Jesuits, rather than a denomination.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 18 Apr 01 - 03:51 PM

obviously I meant when are we going to get these forms. God, if I have this much trouble with a keyboard, I don't stand any chance in filling in a census form. Is Hugh Grant a recognised form of religion -I worship him from afar.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 18 Apr 01 - 03:48 PM

er... wgen are we supposed to get these forms?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Penny S.
Date: 18 Apr 01 - 03:00 PM

And, Les, I now realise, in the provision of suitable care for the old.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Les from Hull
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 10:45 AM

I can call it Hull (or usually 'ull) but you lot had better refer to it by its proper name Kingston upon Hull unless you want to incur the wrath of King Edward the First!

And Mr Red - be careful who you insult. You can run but you can't hide. You in particular can't hide (unless it's among the tomatoes in the greengrocers.

Les

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From:
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 10:38 AM

From Hull and Hell and Halifax, good Lord deliver me. - - Dalesman's litany
Hull is a long way from Keele
reckoned to be in Yorkshire, but the locals prefer you to refer to it as "Humberside"
**BG**

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: John J
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 08:24 AM

where is this Hull place?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Les from Hull
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 07:56 AM

Penny - Religion impacts in a number of ways on how society operates. Holy days, education, for instance. People use it to plan what schools, houses, roads and stuff we need.

Les from (Kingston upon) Hull (City Council)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: JudeL
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 07:45 AM

It should its been going longer than christianity

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Gervase
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 07:38 AM

The Home Office has officially Does anyone know if "pagan/wiccan" is now accepted as an answer on the form?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 05:46 PM

God only knows.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Penny S.
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 04:59 PM

So why do they want to know about religion anyway?

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Willie-O
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 07:55 AM

The Canadian five-year census is next month. I worked on the last one -- weird job that. (First, spend a couple of weeks hand-delivering the forms, then the next month we went back to revisit all you unforthcoming types.) Especially given that I live in a rural area. Met some interesting characters, like the 90-year old father of the township reeve, who lives in a funky log cabin way at the back of their hardscrabble farm. He wasn't there when I dropped by--I asked at the reeve's house. "Oh,", they said, "He's probably out on his ATV".

Second part of the job is going back a month later to collar you recalcitrants who didn't send the form in...this is where it gets less fun. (Or more, depending on your personality type I guess.) I got bitten by one dog. Weird scene. Didn't break skin or tear my pants so I didn't make a big deal of it--but the dog's owner was so rattled he called the cops on his own dog! (Obviously a little unclear on proper rural feud-development protocol.)

Every fifth house got the detailed form, with all the strange and personal questions, including about income sources, racial background, etc. There was a formula for the number of questions that had to be answered: it worked out to 90%, so you could leave a couple of spaces blank without having Statistics Canada (me) come back to haunt you. Since there were three different questions that asked basically if you were an aboriginal Canadian, people that hemmed and hawed about answering delicate questions, I just told them if they would admit to not being an Indian and say no to all those ones, they could get away with not filling in the other ones.

All this for 9.50/hr plus gas money...

not this time.

Willie-O

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 07:34 AM

Apparently this Jedi tosh stems from the recent New Zealand census. They won't make it an 'official' religion, there's only one of those in this country - Church of England - and even they are talking about disestablishment!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Gervase
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 06:55 AM

In today's Guardian it says that there's a move afoot to persuade people to put their religion down as Jedi - based on the same assumption that more than 10,000 will mean it will have to be recognised.
May the farce be with you!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Lanfranc
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 06:26 AM

A certain UK am DJ is suggesting that his listeners record their religion as TOG, on the basis that if 10,000 do so they can form an official sect.

He has several million listeners - could be interesting!

Kevin, our forms haven't been delivered yet, either. Perhaps Harlow doesn't count!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 04:09 AM

Couple of thing realy puzzle me. They go to great lengths to say how confidential it all is and then say you will be prosecuted if you give incorrect information. If it is realy confidential how can they prosecute you in a public court? Eh eh eh???

Second, more genuine, concern. Questions about employment and education apply to those aged 16-74. There are loads of 16 year olds who have not yet left school and have not yet got any qualifications. Isn't this going to skew the figures somewhat? Ie - there will be a million or so (pure guess) more people who will show as unemployed and without qualifications than there is realy?

Finaly - there are loads of people putting their religion as 'Jedi'. I think I will put mine as Mudcat. Anyone with me?

Cheers

Dave the acolyte

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: roopoo
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:19 AM

I've never had to do one before: my husband did the last ones. This time the beggar's decamped to China. Anyway, I'll be far too busy minuting an annual church meeting and then sleeping in front of the TV afterwards to have time to fill it in!

McGrath, I KNEW there was something about you...

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 01:38 AM

I've got it figured out- the same committee designs the census forms all over the world. I'm in the US where we had a census last year.

I didn't have a problem with the April where-will-you-be question. I decided that was just another way of cross referencing, or of tieing you to a specific place or it could have something to do with possible plans to travel

However, I didn't check the pregnancy question- on the same page I had given my age (64) and thought it silly.

Four days after I sent in the questionnaire I had a vaguely threatening message on my answering machine, reminding me that it was imperative that the forms "be filled out completely". A week or so later I received my returned 'incomplete' questionnaire. There was a sticker pointing to the empty box: "Are you pregnant?"

True story.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 07:11 PM

Have they delivered them yet. That's a bugger, if they have, it's gone with the junk mail.

Do you think if I put my ethnic origin question down as Klingon they'd read it and come round to sort me out? "We have reason to think you are an illegal alien..."

They never have sensible senseless questions.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Nemesis
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 07:00 PM

Forgetting where I put the damn envelope to post the darned thing back. It's on top of one heap of detritus and will (I know!) migrate downward over the next three weeks in a steadily clockwise fashion until it disappears down that great black hole where all "important" documents go - i.e., the re-cycling box by the back door where all the rest of the brightly coloured paper junk mail ends up.

Oh, but senseless questions - none so bad as the form they sent out at the cost of GBP 24 million to every pensioner in the Uk to encourage them to claim all their benefits that asked:

"Are you pregnant?"

My 62 year old male friend replied "Awaiting test results"

Subject: RE: BS: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Jim Krause
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 04:54 PM

Coming home from Kansas City, I suppose.
Jim

Subject: UK Census - sensless questions.
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 02:44 PM

AND just what will you be doing on the night of Apr 29th 2001
answers in black or blue only please.