Folk music image

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie)
Date: 14 Apr 01 - 05:39 PM

There's a wonderful little weekend festival that happens every September at the Pine Mountain State Park in Pineville, KY. Planning it, in the early 70s I think, Dick Albin wanted to call it something like, Pine Mt. Folk Festival. The park turned him down flat- so they compromised on, "The Great American Dulcimer Convention." That way, it wouldn't draw "all those beer-drinkers on motor-cycles." Must have worked, because it's still going on...not a good reflection on the word, "Folk," however.

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: Roughyed
Date: 14 Apr 01 - 05:18 PM

"Folk music equated with drug crazed hippies playing protest songs". Someone tell me what the problem is....

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: GUEST,#1
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 05:51 PM

I think it's time to throw away all the images and definitions, and start over on 'folk songs' and 'folk music'. Maybe next time we won't make such a mess of the job (if we can keep those PR types out).

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: Paul G.
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 12:36 PM

Perception IS reality...the truth is just another point of view. Clearly not original, but an idea I subscribe to. Frankly I've looked long and hard for an alternative classification of my music -- I'm a singer/songwriter who performs 90% original work, either solo or with my band. It's music with a message, (no not the navel contemplating kind), historical tale-telling, observations of people and places, or environmentally oriented stuff. It's played on acoustic instruments at coffee shops, galleries, and "folk" festivals. I can't count the times of heard from new listeners "I didn't know *that* was folk music!" They always seem to expect Burl Ives singing "Big Rock Candy Mountain" or "Michael Row Your Boat Ashore", or else the tie died, drugged out psycho-spiritual fringe stuff. I enjoy almost all of the conglomeration of styles that we call folk, but I also think a significant number of potential listeners do harbor pre-conceptions which keep them away. My approach has been to encourage the reluctant to give us a try..and we've broken down more than a few stereotypes...

pg

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: GUEST,UB Dan
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 08:56 AM

Way to go...if only you didn't have to play more songs about peace you could have beaten him with your guitar...I bet he's sorry he came up with the idea for WWI and WWII now...that tourist will probably think twice before starting another war. Thanks for spreading peace and good feeling in the best possible way.

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: Suffet
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 07:03 AM

Evy's friend Jean is right, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. If people didn't make music for free at one time or another, there would be no such thing as folk music, whatever you call it (roots, trad, old songs, etc.). In fact, there would be no such thing as music at all!

I've done my share of paying gigs. But after laying out for parking, splitting the performers' share of the gate with the other acts, buying my brother and his girlfriend a drink, and going out to dinner afterwards with my wife, I'm lucky if I net ten bucks. After I subtract the cost of printing and mailing flyers, I'm fortunate to be in the black at all. Most of the time I'm better off working for free.

In fact most of my best performances have been freebies. I do the Clearwater Pumpkin Sail/Sale each fall for free. I did the Ships to Save the Waters Conference in New Jersey last year for free. I did a Peoples Music Network workshop in Hartford earlier this year for free. I was in Songs of the Spirit at the Clearwater Hudson River Revival last year for free and I plan to be there again this year for free. But then I'm a FOLK musician, and damn proud of it.

A while back I was in Paris, singing and playing outside the Cathedral of Notre Dame. I had a hand-lettered sign propped up on my guitar case which read "Ne jetez-moi pas d'argent SVP!" (English translation "Don't throw me any money, please!") Some German tourist tossed a couple of 20-centime pieces my way, which I promptly threw back at him along with the words "Gardez votre argent puant, Bosch!" ("Keep your stinking money, Kraut!") That got me the applause of the audience, a hearty handshake from some old workman who told me that he had been in the Resistance, and a big wet kiss from his well bangled and overly made-up wife or, possibly, mistress.

Now that's payment that a true folk musician can savor!

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: ukelady
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 05:14 PM

My friend, Jean Farnworth, who I perform with as "Double Trouble", once said, "Folk is a four letter word that makes people think you'll play for free."

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 02:22 PM

I sometimes use the term "folk music" because it is so vague in just the right way for me. For example, it sometimes comes up in the course of idle conversation with people who do not know me very well that I am an amateur musician. The invariable question is "What kind of music do you do?" I have two answers depending upon my mood.

If I am not in the mood to begin an extended discussion, I answer "folk music." The invariable response is "Oh, you mean the kind of music that [insert name of any artist or group who has ever been characterized as "folk"] does?" To which I respond, "Yes" no matter what artist or group has been named. At which point the questioner moves to another topic. You see, the nice thing about "folk music" is that everybody thinks they have at least some notion what I am talking about. And almost everybody thinks they know enough about "folk music" to know that they are not very interested in that particular genre. Thus "folk music" serves as a nice, polite "conversation stopper."

If, on the other hand, I am in a garrulous mood I respond, "Old time music." The invariable response is "What's that?" I kick into my didactic mode and begin a lengthy explanation.

Subject: From the Truckee to the Hoosick
From: Suffet
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 02:03 PM

For those who are curious about the line "From the Truckee to the Hoosick" let me state that they are both rivers in the USA.

The Truckee begins at Lake Tahoe and flows from California down into Nevada where it empties into Pyramid Lake.

The Hoosick (or Hoosic) lies in New York State, with tributaries reaching up into Vermont and Massachusetts. Folks who went to the old Fox Hollow Festival may recall camping along the Hoosick.

Both are beloved folkie rivers!

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: Suffet
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 01:01 PM

Frank Woerner of the Compass Rogues and New York Packet, both sea chantey groups, once described me as "a real folksinger." It wasn't necessarily meant as a compliment, but I accepted it as one and I use that term in the excerpt from my promotional blurb which follows. Pete Seeger calls himself a folksinger. So does Peggy Seeger, and so does Theodore Bikel. So did Woody Guthrie, Burl Ives, Haywire Mac McClintock, Cisco Houston, Leadbelly, Josh White, Aunt Molly Jackson, and Carl Sandburg. That's good enough for me!

Here's the excerpt. Please indulge my total shamelessness!

-------

Steve Suffet is best described as a real folksinger. His repertoire comprises a mixture of railroad songs, trucker songs, cowboy songs, union songs, old time ballads, blues, ragtime, Gospel, bluegrass, topical-political songs, and whatever else tickles his fancy. He takes songs from whatever sources he wishes and then he sings them his own way. If he forgets some of the words, he makes up his own on the spot. If he can't quite recall the tune, he takes what he can remember and reworks it to fit his vocal style, maybe flatting a 7th or changing a major key to a mountain modal. And if he can't figure out the original guitar chords, he plays whichever sound right.

One thing that Steve does not do is kowtow to the self-appointed folk police. You know the types: the ones who insist that every song be sung note for note and word for word the way so-and-so recorded it three quarters of a century ago! Another thing he does not do -- or at least very rarely does -- is sing a song the same way twice. His performances are always full of surprises: an extra phrase here, a new chorus there, a stanza added or deleted anywhere. Even his set lists are full of unexpected twists and turns. He may, for example, sing seven Woody Guthrie songs in a row and then suddenly break into Zum Gali Gali, Freiheit, or The Star of the County Down.

Steve also writes his own songs, but more often than not they are set to the tunes of traditional folksongs. Sometimes he will take a well known song, such as Reuben's Train or This Little Light of Mine, and rewrite everything but the refrain and one or two stanzas. When he is finished it is often impossible to tell where the original song leaves off and where Steve's composition begins.

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 11:21 AM

Let the image stand! If people want to have preconceived ideas let them. If they do not have the intelligence to find out for themselves I don't want them at my folk club.

I would never dream of stereotyping anyone so let the yobs who don't appreciate folk music stick with their beer swilling football supporter friends and carry on going to Kylie and Robbie concerts...;-)

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: RWilhelm
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 11:01 AM

When I started buying records, blues, bluegrass, old-time country, cajan, celtic, etc. were all found in the folk bin. Over the years music with legitimate roots snuck off to bins of their own. What's in the folk bin now is primarily singer/songwriter music, much of which I can't distinguish from pop/rock.

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: JudeL
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 09:55 AM

Unfortunatly whatever handle you use it will be misinterpreted by some, if you use traditional there are some purists out there who then insist that excludes contempory stuff written in the traditional style, the folk nazis as someone put it. A number of the songs I sing, are, if we're being picky, music hall, so does this mean they shouldn't be sung, others if you want to look at it that way could be seen as blues. A number of people sing spirituals, others parodies. Where do draw the line?

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: Maryrrf
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 09:34 AM

I usually say that I play "traditional folk music" which narrows it down a little. But "folk" music, I think, has come to mean just about anything that's acoustic.

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: GUEST,UB Dan
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 09:30 AM

For goodness sake, the song is parody.
Hyperbole is the best course of action. Don't change from my name is Jack and I smoke crack...unless you can find something stronger and more ridiculous. My name is Jack and I just finished smoking 10,000 pounds of crack while mainlining a quart of heroin and dissolving a hockey pucked size tab of acid in my ass. If anything, I would add more ludicrous 'scary' images...maybe you could be playing a guitar made of hemp ...and drop some of the more positive images or split the two images more with the first verse being a caricature image and the following verses (after some sort of segue) a more true to life depiction... or for that matter, an idealization

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: GUEST,Wavestar
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 09:27 AM

Yes, I know the feeling. I had a conversation with my boyfriend recently where I mentioned folk music, and he got this funny look on his face. I said, I can tell you're thinking the wrong thing, aren't you? And he said, "well, I'm certainly thinking that what I think of as folk music I don't asssociate with you..." Oh well, we're still trying to make our differing tastes work.

-J

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: Gervase
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 07:07 AM

Oddly, in the UK folk has connotations of old farts in Arran jumpers, huge amounts of facial hair, pewter tankards full of warm "Old Nadger" and fingers stuck in their ears.
Which is, of course, a gross calumny. I do like my Arran jumper, though, and a pint of Old Nadger would go down a treat right now...

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: Suffet
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 12:37 AM

Here are some alternative first lines for those folks who don't like the crack reference:

Oh, my name is Fred, I'm an acid head...

Oh, my name is Mike and weed I like...

Oh, my name is Ray and I smoke a jay...

Oh, my name is Bill and I'll pop a pill...

Oh, my name is Ross and I mainline horse...

Oh, my name is Joe and I snort snow...


As they used to say: Name your poison!

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: Deni
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 11:59 PM

A UK Folk Club organiser told me they'd tried dropping the word folk in their publicity in favour of acoustic music club, to encourage more people to attend the club. He then found that acoustic musicians performing a wider range of music were turning up. Well they would do I suppose...traditional would seem a good one...what do you call new songs written in the Trad. idiom?

Trolk music?

cheers

deni

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: toadfrog
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 11:47 PM

Yeah. "Folk music" doesn't hardly work any more as an expression. It is often used to mean stuff that sounds like it was written in the '60s. Of course, not all us hippies are drug-crazed. That, of course, is a dumb stereotype. Why, I've even heard of sober Deadheads.

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 07:06 PM

I really like that song. But it needs at least one more verse, maybe two. I hope it'll grow them.

The thing is, traditional music and folk music overlap, but they don't coincide. I know we've been round and round and round this many times, but there are any number of great songs which aren't traditional, or even in a traditional style, but which fit well in the company of songs which are. Folkie music.

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 05:55 PM

Hear! Hear! Or should that be "Hear here". Either way, nice job.

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: Chicken Charlie
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 04:09 PM

Good lyrics!!!!

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: GUEST,Schooner Jack
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:13 PM

Hey, Suffet! I hope I'm not the Jack you had in mind. Anyway, when are you coming back to Key West? My sources tell me that you did a guest set aboard the Western Union and that you're welcome to play there any time you want. You don't have to shake down German tourists in Mallory Square to earn your keep.

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: RWilhelm
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:00 PM

The stereotype is absurd but "folk" is not a very useful term anymore.

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: GUEST,UB Dan
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 01:42 PM

I guess one of the differences is if you play a traditional song in an untraditional way. You can't call it traditional or old song or roots...its based on a traditional song but has gone through the "folk process".

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 01:07 PM

Great song, Suffet. Humor is the best way to deal with those stereotypes. Well done.

Subject: RE: Folk music image
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 12:59 PM

I can't change old titles, but have eliminated 'folk song', 'folk-song', and 'folksong' from the files on my website. 'traditional' is the sole keyword I use now.

Subject: Folk music image
From: Suffet
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 12:42 PM

I just heard a very learned and respected gentleman -- a university professor and an accomplsihed performer -- explain that he prefers the terms "traditional music," "old songs," or "roots" to "folk music." Why? Because, says he, "the public equates folk music with drug crazed hippies playing protest songs." To which I respond with the following composition...


THAT STUFF IS CALLED FOLK MUSIC
Tune:"The Girl I Left Behind Me" (traditional)
Words: Stephen L. Suffet © 2001

Oh, my name is Jack and I smoke crack,
Yeah, I'm a drug crazed hippy,
And I sing songs that tell of wrongs,
From Maine to Mississippi;
I got an old guitar and a beat up car,
I'm big and gross and hairy,
And I delight in causing fright,
'Cause I'm really kind of scary!

Yeah, I sing folk, and that ain't no joke,
'Cause there ain't no better label,
You can be a cad and call it trad,
If you're willing and you're able;
What I sing at hoots, you can call it roots,
From the Truckee to the Hoosick,
But don't be coy around me, boy,
That stuff is called FOLK MUSIC!


Only 782 more songs and I overtake Woody. :-)

---- Steve