Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: GUEST,Bobert
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 07:38 PM

See, I told you my pudder is messed up, but at least it has hooked up to the net for the first time in 5 days. Well at least for now. Danged thing has a mind of its own.

Bobert, not GUEST

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 07:35 PM

Genie: Thanks for putting the danged thing in order. It's easier to see and think about it, I've got the song strwn all over the place. Heck, I'll work on it this way tonight and see how it flows. If it works then I'll keep the other verses that you, Jeri, Jerry and MMario contributed 'cause there gotta be another song in here somewhere.

If anyone sees anything awkward in these verses, please feel free throw in your two cents worth. Heck, if I do it next week I'm allready gonna have to give credit to you folks who have been here messin with it...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: Genie
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 04:22 PM

Well, Bobert, here your three verses (with minor editing as above) in sequence, with line breaks.
 

 Well, I walked down to the preacher's house,
  Knockin' on the man's front door,
  Said, "Preacher, can ya tell me
  What did Jesus die for?"
  He said "It was for your salvation
  Up there on Calvary Hill."
  I said, "Thank you there, good Reverend."
  He said, "Son, it was God's will.
  It was just God's will."

Yeah,Willie James, down Texas way,
Lookin on his judgment day.
Prayin' in is 8-foot cell,
His death just hours away...
Some pro-life white haired politican
Up there on the hill
Says he'd be glad to pull that switch.
Says, "Son, it's just God's will,"
It's just God's will."

To you in your sheep's clothing,
Your debts will all be paid
When you try your lines on St. Peter,
Standin' at the Pearly Gates.
Mathew said, "Nothin's hidden
That one day won't be found."
Yeah, no secret kept behind closed doors
Won't one day be known around.
You'll be known by your deeds in time,
Lives you've taken so very still,
And you'll find your empty words won't change
Your final judgment; that's God's will.
That's God's will.
 

Y'know, Bobert, I kinda like it this way, with the link between the three verses left to the imagination of the listener, rather than spelled out.
Whadda you think?

Genie

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 03:57 PM

I think this is the kind of song where if it was me writing it I'd write it out as a discussion or story or whatever in prose, after I'd got the first verse, and then I'd versify it. That way I'd feel more comfortable about getting the balance between the argument and the story and what I was trying to leave with the listener.

Some pretty good verses. Promises to be a good song.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 10:54 AM

Well, Danged! Another night on the phone with tech suppost trying to get my home puder back up and again no luck. This is definately cutting into my time to get this song in order but I reread this thread that I had the forsite to do with the little puder time I got yesterday at work and pondering and pondering more. I think there are two different songs, both good, that will emerge. One that deals with a life of spiritual stuggle that MMario talks about in his verse where I'm still needing reassurance on my deathbead, and simialarly Genie's wonderfully written verses asking God's help along the way. Then there's Jeri's verse which demonstartes less a struggle and more a trust. And when I wrote it I was knidof thinking trust also but not so much my level of trust of the many blessings the Lord continues to amaze me with but a trust that for thise folks "in sheep's clothing, who profess Faith, while doing evil things to other folks, are not part of the Kingdom... Kindof preachy and righteous, I'll admit, but that's the perspective from which I am trying to write. When I wrote it originally there were three, not just the one middle verse about Willie Jame's life, but the song was burdomsome so I was hoping for just one middle verse, maybe two, that covered more ground about the bad things that folks do hiding their own greed and agendas behind their professed Faith.

Hope I get my puder fixed tonight so I can throw some energy into this thing because the competition is next week end.

Bobert

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 11:31 AM

Thanks, Kat, for weighing in.

Having run off this thread on my printer, I left the pages here in my office and with my home puder still on strike, just took the night off from thinking about the song. (Hope to get repuderized at home tonight... Knock on wood...)

But, hark, a new day for ponderance.

Bobert

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 08:25 AM

Thanks, Kat! I used a line in a song (real thread drift here,) "The good old days are still to come." :-)

Jerry

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 12:22 AM

There was a phrase in the book, Having our say which they also included in the movie, recently shown on tv. This was the book by the Delaney sisters, both over 100 years old when interviewed for it. Their father was born a slave and rose to be the first African American Episcopal Bishop. The sisters were firsts in a bucnh of things.

Anyway, he died in the 30's and 50 years later, they were still fixing a birthday feast for him every year. Their comment was Some grieve to remember; we celebrate to remember!

I think that is such a neat pespective. Don't know if it would fit anywhere in this song, but it felt like a good thing to share in this thread.

luvyakat

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: Genie
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 11:32 PM

Yes, Jerry, we do think he's terrific! :-)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 11:19 PM

My Mother thinks I'm terrific! My Dad wasn't nearly so sure, but he eventually came around in his 80's. There's still hope, Mario. WE think you're terrific! Right, Genie! :-)

Jerry

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: Genie
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 11:02 PM

MMario, actually, that's what I was trying to say (about the "collaboration" process.
-- And why should your parents be any different from anyone else's? *G*

Genie

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 04:24 PM

I think folks help if they try anything, because they might give a person more questions, more ideas, or they might cause the person to think "no, I don't wanna go there...HERE'S where I wanna go." Anyway, sometimes all it takes to get somewhere good is to keep moving in any direction.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: MMario
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 03:55 PM

WHOO-hoo! someone tell my parents! they never believe I don anything right! (and after nearly five decades I'm beginning to want to prove it to them)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 03:46 PM

Thanks, Genie:

I've enjoyed this thread a great deal, even though I haven't taken a stab at writing the second verse. As for suggesting verses that never get used, I was seqrching around a few weeks ago for the words to a song that I wrote back in 1963. I'd not only forgotten the words, I'd forgotten the song. Someone surfaced on the internet who wanted the words to the song, and I looked through old notebooks to see if I could find them. All that I found were some scattered verses, lines and a very rough draft of the song. I tried piecing at all together, and sent what I could remember off to another friend who goes back that far, when I discovered that he still sings the song. It was interesting to see what he sings, what I remember, and the verses and lines that were in the notebook. There were a couple of lines that I thought were quite good that my friend didn't sing, and never remembered hearing. I guess I never came up with a matching couplet to make them in to a verse. As you know, songwriting is a process and many songs evolve into something quite different than what they started out to be. I think that whatever lines or verses end up in Bobert's song, the final shape of his song will reflect all of your ideas, my questions and suggestions. MMario is right... :-)

Jerry

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: MMario
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 02:28 PM

visible traces is the keyword there! Just because it isn't seen doesn't mean that the collaberation wasn't a success or that your contribution wasn't vital.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: Genie
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 02:17 PM

Bobert, I do think your verse is more powerful than what I was thinking of, because you've given a face tot he abstract and dared to risk stepping on some toes, too.  As Jerry says, you could make the death penalty the focus of the song.  But your verse also brings to mind the song "God On Our Side."  This is not to say your song concept is derivative -- just that your song could well deal with this broader, powerful theme of the noble vs. ignoble uses of the concept of "God's will."   If you go that route, you could take on -- oh, what could it be?   I don't know... Let me see ...Could it be... "Operation Enduring Freedom?"  *G*

Good suggestions, Jerry R.  And thanks for the kind words.  I know what you mean about collaborating.  In my experience, it goes something like this:  I throw out a bunch of verses, lines, and suggestions for lyric or chord changes; then the primary songwriter says, quite sincerely,  "Thanks!  You've helped me a lot! and proceeds to write his/her own verses that show no visible trace of my suggestions.  This is fine, though; the brainstorming process can unleash the writer's own muse.  Maybe this thread will do that for you, Bobert, even if you don't "use" any of the specific lines we suggest.

Genie

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 12:25 PM

Hey, Bobert:

You sly fox! Here you had a great second verse and a focus to the whole song, and you didn't even mention it. Maybe it's just me, but I respond more to songs that are saying something from an individual perspective. There is a strong movement in gospel music now that the Mass Choirs and Praise and Worship Teams all follow. I am not moved by the songs (although others may well be, so I don't want to deny their worth.) They sound like the songwriter labored over the words for a couple of minutes. They often sound like a string of over-used phrases chosen because they can easily be made to rhyme. Take a second and write a verse:

Oh Lord, I love you so,
You've been so good to me
You've blessed my weary soul
And your love has set me freeBR>

That took about thirty seconds to think up and it's better than some of the stuff that I hear.

I think that Genie's verses are good.. they are reportorial rather than "preachy." Perhaps there is some way that you can ground those verses in a specific life. Or maybe you've got two songs going there. (I'm such an enormous help...) If you really want to write a song speaking out against the death penalty, maybe you need to make that your focus and choose lines that illuminate your feelings. Maybe you and Genie have complimentary songs in you. God knows, there are no limits to the way you can express yourself. Thinking about this, I think of Rev. Gary Davis's song Bad Company Brought Me Here.

Back when I was working and people came to me with ideas, I'd tell them that they had to ask two questions..."What do you want to accomplish?" and "Who is your audience?" For a songwriter, I'd modify that first question to be "What do you want to say?" If you haven't decided what you want to say, the song won't have a focus or perspective. Genie's verses seem to want to say that we all have choices and there is a price to pay when we don't follow the Lord. That price is not only paid by the person who has willfully committed a crime, but all those who love them. Everyone who loves a criminal is a victim of their crime.

So, Bobert, I think that you can put some of Genie's words into the mouth of a person sentenced to death. If you're writing about someone who is going to be executed, you need to get into their mind as much as you can emerse yourself... like Method Acting, for songwriting. When I first started writing songs, I wrote cowboy songs and escaped slave songs, and all the lines rhymed. But the song didn't say anything because I couldn't get inside the people I was writing about. Maybe that's what you need to do.

I think you can see from my comments why I never was able to collaborate in writing songs. Someone said to me once that they'd like to write songs with me, but I don't think I could do it. Genie seems to have more of a gift for that...

Jerry

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 11:08 AM

Genie. Jerry, MMario and Jeri: Thanks for all this work. I'm going to run all these stuff on on my puder and cut it up and piece it together.

When I first wrote what I have I was in a preachin mood. I was telling folks, especially those who kill in the name of the Lord. It is written from the perspective of a struggling Christain, which I very much am. Follower of Christ, no problem, but with so many so called church going Christains justifying some stuff that Jesus would be apalled at, no better than a struggling Christain. The first middle verse I wrote was about capital punishemnt.

It went something like: "Yeah,Willie James, down a Texas way...Lookin on his judgement day... prayin' in is 8 foot cell... His death just hours away... Some prolife white haired politican... From up there on the hill... Says he'd be glad to pull the switch... You know, he says it's just God's will..."

Well, I would just like to cover more ground with the verse and apon carefull reading of what you folks have blessed me with, maybe I have enough...

So, I'll get to work, and again, a big 'ol thank you, thank you, thank you. I hate gettin' blocked on the innards of what I think can be good song.

My puder at home is actin' up so I haven't been able to get over here but once a day but I may get it figured out tonight, which will make it easier to keep up. I have been playing the hound out of what I have so I can imprint the D model stuff in my pea brain...

Thanks again...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: Genie
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 05:45 PM

Bobert, I screwed up the line breaks in your first verse, so here are your two verses again (tweaked a little to fit the meter I'm 'hearing' - 2/4 -- kinda like "You Don't Knock, You Just Walk On In")  and my two intermediate verses as they stand now.  Bear in mind that this is all just for your consideration, modification, rejection. etc.

 Bobert's 1st v erse (slightly modified):

Well, I walked down to the preacher's house,
 Knockin' on the man's front door,
 Said, "Preacher, can ya tell me
 What did Jesus die for?"
 He said "It was for your salvation
 Up there on Calvary Hill."
 I said, "Thank you there, good Reverend."
 He said, "Son, it was God's will.
 It was just God's will."

Possible 2nd and 3rd verses:

Well I pondered what that preacher said*
 As I went on my way.
 Sometimes life's knocked me to my knees,
Nothin' left to do but pray.
I said, "Lord, I just don't understand
 Why the world must suffer still,
 Please help me trust your wisdom,
 Help me do what is Your will.
 Help me do Your will.

And I've tried to listen for The Lord
Though my flesh is often weak,
Tried to love my neighbor as myself,
Turn the other cheek.
And I've had to ask forgiveness
'Cause ol' Satan tempts me still,
But I know God gave his Son for me,
So I'm trusting in God's will,
His blessed will.
 
 

  Bobert's last verse (modified a little):

To you in your sheep's clothing,
Your debts will all be paid
 When you try your lines on St. Peter,
 Standin' at the Pearly Gates.
Mathew said, "Nothin's hidden
that one day won't be found."
 Yeah, no secret kept behind closed doors
Won't one day be known around.
 You'll be known by your deeds in time,
 Lives you've taken so very still,
 And you'll find your empty words won't change
 Your final judgment; that's God's will.
 That's God's will.

 
 

Genie

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: Genie
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 05:17 PM

Bobert, here's a start on a possible second verse (though I think this one calls for another one before you get to the last verse).  I'll admit that without knowing the meter or tune, it's hard to fit my lyrics to them.

Well I pondered what the Reverend said*
As I went upon my way.
Sometimes I've been knocked about, brought down to my knees
Till there was nothin' to do but pray.
I said, "Lord, I just don't understand
Why the world must suffer still,
Please help me trust your wisdom,
Help me do what is Your will.
Help me do Your will.
 

I think it needs an additional verse that shows how trusting God has been the right choice for the narrator, despite his doubts.

Genie

* or "Well, I thought of Jesus' sacrifice"  or "Well, I thought about that gift of Love"

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 05:11 PM

Hi, Bobert:

Just for fun, here's the chorus to a song that I wrote recently in a finger-picked country blues style:

"Well, I ain't been to Heaven but I been told
The streets up there, they're lined with gold
I ain't been to Hell but from what I hear
It can get mighty hot down there
So you better mind your manners, watch your p's and q's
'Cause you never know when God's watching you
And just because you want to do it, that don't make it right

I'm waiting for Genie to try a second verse... :-)

Jerry

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: Genie
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 04:58 PM

Bobert, here are your lyrics with line breaks added, just in case that makes it easier for the songsmiths to compose the second verse.  (I haven't read the ones submitted so far, because I may try to write one and I don't want to be influenced by them.)

First verse:

Well, I walked down to the preacher's house,
Knockin' on the man's front door,
Said, "Preacher, can ya tell me... what'd Jesus die for?"
He said "Why, son, he died for your salvation
Up there on Calvary Hill."
I said, "Thank you there, good Reverend."
He said, "Son, it was God's will.
It was just God's will."

(Insert second verse)

 Last verse:

I say to you in sheep's clothing
That your debts will all be paid
When you try your lines on St. Peter,
Standin' at the Pearly Gates.
For Mathew said, "Nothin's hidden that one day won't be found."
Yeah, no secret's kept behind closed doors
That won't one day be known around.
You'll be known by your deeds in time,
Lives you've taken so very still,
And you'll find your empty words won't change
Your final judgment; that's God's will.
That's God's will.

Genie

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 10:42 AM

I like Jerri's verse, Bobert. I feel like the last verse is somewhat unresolved, though. In the first verse, the person telling the story asks why Christ died, and is told it is for his salvation. I wonder what effect that had on his life? The last verse doesn't really answer that question, and perhaps you don't want to. I can't tell whether he is making his comments because he has learned the cost of ignoring God's will, or because his life was changed so dramatically by the preacher that he is now offering the same wisdom to others. Jerri's verse is a good commentary on the choices we make in life, and that ultimately our future is in our hands.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: MMario
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 09:50 AM

true - it could go in various directions.

Now the preacher's at my bedside
An' I'm knockin' on death's door
And I done asked the preacher
as I asked him before
Preacher, Why did Jesus have to die?
He said, I'll tell you, just lie still
So you could live, beyond the grave
It's God's plan for you, his plan for all,
In the end,It's just God's will.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 09:28 AM

Well, it might not be what ol' Bobert's looking for. Maybe he wants the guy to keep shirking until the end, when somebody else tells him the stuff in the last verse...like maybe preacher that's with him at the end, right before another guy flips a switch...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: MMario
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 08:55 AM

like it Jeri!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Need middle verse for original song
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 08:47 AM

Hi Bobert! I think the beginning and end are great. You set it up in the beginning, and the end is a sort of summary - not only of the song, but of the man's life. One thing I noticed was you go from "I" in the first verse to "you" in the last.

The natural thing for the middle verse would be to have the man learn he has choices, and/or responsibility for his own actions, and the last verse would be him telling what he's learned.

So I walked on past that preacher's house
I traveled far and wide
I saw folks all on their own paths
Saw how they lived and died
And the Devil at the crossroads -
It's just the road we choose, until
We get to where we're goin'
And where it leads us, that's God's will

(It's just an idea. Feel free to tweak/change/edit/dump/whatever.)

Subject: Need middle verse for original song
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 09:50 PM

Okay, I'm not too sure how this will work out, but intwo weeks there the Wes Ginny Mountain Satge (PBS) dirst statewide song writer's competition and I've got the first and last verses and a bunch of not-so-hot middle ones. If I use your verse. I will give you credit and you will officially be a collaborator, but i'm stuck.

The song is about the things man does and blames on God so with that premise, if you're turned off, than it might be a waste of time grinding any gray matter. I don't do that clever hotmail stuff, or wahtever it is, that makes songs look like songs so please bare with me.

First verse:

Well, I walked down to the preacher's house... Knockin' on the man's front door... Said, "Preacher, can ya tell me... what'd Jesus die for?"... He said "Why, son, he dies for your salvation... Up there on Calvary Hill"... I said, "Tahnk you there good reverand"... He said, "Son, it was God's will... It was just God's will."

Missing verse???? Help... Blocked and tired...

Last verse:

I say to you in sheep's clothing... That your debt's will all be paid... When you try your lines on St. Peter... Standin' at the Pearly Gates... For Mathew said, "Nothin's hidden... That one day won't be found"... Yeah, no secrets kept behind closed doors... That won't one day be known around... You'll be known by your deeds in time... lives you taken so very still... And you'll find your empty words won't change... Your final judgement, that's God's will... That's God's will.

So, hey, that's what I have along with some real cool music in D mofel tuning. Now, if ya got something and just don't want to throw it into the the Catbox, PM me...

And, thanks.....

Bobert