Subject: RE: Anti-war songs from WWI From: mark gregory Date: 29 Apr 14 - 03:13 AM The Australian coal miner poet Josiah Cocking was strongly opposed to war all his long life He wrote the following poem in 1910 4 years before WWI so could be described by some as "prematurely anti-war" The following verses by "Dandelion" were printed in the "International Socialist Review" of Feb. 12, 1910. DANDELION BITTERS. "Fling out the. flag, let it flap & rise On the breath of the eager air."- FranCis Adams. We have flung the flag; see ! it flaunts & waves In the light of the Southern Cross; 'Neath the gaudy rag are a million slaves 'Neath the heel of our Owner's Boss ! For a hundred years we have wiped the sweat From our faces, in field & mine; And of blood & tears we shall wipe them yet If our forces we don't combine. Shall we tear our foes; & remain content To be hewers of wood and stone ? Shall we toil for those till our lives are spent, Or produce for ourselves alone ? Shall we listen yet to the cry of "creed" Or of "color", or "flag", or "race" ? Shall we bleed and sweat to supply the need Of the authors of our disgrace? Shall we cultivate, in these Austral States, At the Labor mis-leader's calI, An insensate hatred of "foreign" mates When together we stand or fall ? Shall we-shoot or hang ev'ry man that's black, Or affront every man that's brown To appease the Gang on our bended back Who divide us to keep us down ? Let's respect each man, be he black or tan, And discard stupid racial pride; Let's adopt the plan to despise & ban Only those who are black inside ! Must the workers live in the depths of Hell? Shall we never attempt to rise ? Should we want & give to the drones who dwell On the mountains of Paradise ? Let us join our hands round the whole wide earth, And unite with a noble aim-- Let us bravely stand with all men of worth And this fact to the world proclaim:- That we mean to fight in our solid might ( Not with bombs, but with active brains ), For the reign of Right, and for Justice, bright, And for freedom from wage-slaves chains! To the drones and kings-- & all useless things- We shall offer the pick or pen; And no man will sing "God preserve the king ", But "God save all our fellow-men." And we mean to keep what we make & reap From the Line to the Polar Skies; And the word shall leap orr the rolling deep That the World is our Final Prize ! " Cocking always wrote poetry under a pen-name in this case Dandelion (refers to Daniel De Leon one of the founders of the Industrial Workers of the World ) As can be seen above his thinking has a deal of IWW philosophy about it. |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs from WWI From: mark gregory Date: 29 Apr 14 - 02:17 AM I recently found this long lost English poem in the Australian trade union supported newspaper the Worker Worker Thursday 19 October 1916 p. 3. KENCH HILL You can hear the guns all day Rumbling eighty miles away; You can hear them all night long Booming out the devil's song, Taking God's own right to kill— From the top of high Kench Hill. The hay smells sweet on high Kench Hill When we go out a-raking; And, round about, the Roman Marsh In summer heat lies baking. There's miles of sky on high Kench Hill With colored clouds a-spreading Like gold fish in a great blue bowl, When we the hay are tedding. And you may see on high Kench Hill, Clear over hedge and railing, A little slip of silver sea With ships upon it sailing. Merry's the time on high Kench Hill When we the hay are carting ; Fun runs free like the ale and tea, And lovers go sweethearting. 'Tis peaceful time on high Kench Hill— Below the lambs are bleating ; The last load home is lost in mist, Night sheds her quiet greeting. You can hear the guns all day Rumbling eighty miles away. You can hear them all night long Booming out the devil's song. Taking God's own right to kill— From the top of high Kench Hill. H.W., in London "Herald." The "Daily Herald" published in London was also trade union supported which encouraged the Worker to trade stories and occasionally poems |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs from WWI From: mark gregory Date: 29 Apr 14 - 02:02 AM Two WWI anti-conscription songsheets are now on the Australian Folk Songs website with a total of 7 Australian songs plus the wobbly song Solidarity forever One of the songsheets became notorious in the newspapers because it was discovered carefully placed and bound in a batch of early phonebooks published in the Melbourne Government Printery ... the anti-conscription men and women were a creative lot! The anti-conscription movement defeated two referendums despite overwhelming support of jingo governments and newspapers. see Women's Anti-Conscription Songs [1916] and Anti-Conscription Army Songs [1917] ------ The Melbourne "Age" writes:-- The flagrant and dishonorable abuse of official trust to which certain "anti" types will descend in order to spread their pernicious gospel is in evidence in a copy of our latest "Telephone Guide," dated March. Between the leaves of the book, and bound into the book as a whole with the other official leaves, is a copy of a pamphlet of "anti conscription army songs," dealing with such topics as a "maiden's sacrifice," the "greedy master class," "incubate the kids," and "bump me into Parliament." It is not known how many leaflets have been distributed in such a manner, but the binding up of this particular leaflet in the guide under review proves almost conclu- sively that it is the work of an employe or employes in the Government Printing Office, whose low conception of their obligations as public servants makes it highly desirable that their identity should be established and fitting punishment imposed. -------- This article refers the Anti-Conscription Army Songs mentioned above There are plenty of other Australian anti-war songs from the period and we would see the same phenomenon from the Menzies Vietnam War and the George Bush Iraq War At the same time commentators often exclaim "what has happened to the protest songs" when their only source of information comes from Top of the Pops. ! How very convenient |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs from WWI From: The Sandman Date: 24 Dec 13 - 06:24 PM Tommys Lothttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ5xZQVkhak |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs from WWI From: Joe_F Date: 23 Dec 13 - 06:31 PM My mother remembered from her youth: O, say, can you -- imagine, mother? You're boy is in the guardhouse now. Takes off, of course, from the national anthem. |
Subject: Lyr Add: THE GRAND OUL DAME BRITANNIA (incomplete) From: Jim Dixon Date: 23 Dec 13 - 01:46 PM Philippa mentioned this: This text appears in Sean O'Casey: Writer at Work - A Biography by Christopher Murray (Dublin: Gill & Macmillan, 2004), page 106: One of [Sean O'Casey's] first and best-loved satirical ballads was 'The Grand Oul' Dame Britannia', published in the Workers' Republic on 15 January 1916 under his old, ironic penname An Gall Fada, 'the Tall Foreigner'. The context was the introduction of conscription in England, from which Ireland was for the present exempt but which was to reappear as a threat in March 1918, when the ballad was reprinted as one of the Songs of the Wren under O'Casey's name (in Irish). The first verse (of eight) runs: Och! Ireland, sure I'm proud of you— Ses the Grand Oul' Dame Britannia, To poor little Belgium tried and true, Ses the Grand Oul' Dame Britannia. Ye've closed your ear to the Sinn Fein lies, For you know each Gael that for England dies Will enjoy Home Rule in the clear blue skies, Ses the Grand Oul' Dame Britannia. [Another verse (possibly parts of 2 verses?) appears in Genesis of the Rising, 1912-1916: A Transformation of Nationalist Opinion by Christopher M. Kennedy (New York: Peter Lang, 2010), page 109: Redmond now Home Rule has won, Ses the Grand Oul' Dame Britannia. He's finished what Wolfe Tone begun, Ses the Grand Oul' Dame Britannia. Now scholars, hurlers, saints and bards, Ses the Grand Oul' Dame Britannia. Come along and join the Irish Guards, Ses the Grand Oul' Dame Britannia. Every Man who treads on a German's feet Will be given a parcel tied up neat— A Home Rule badge, Tombstone Cross and Winding Sheet, Ses the Grand Oul' Dame Britannia. |
Subject: Lyr Add: STUNG RIGHT (Joe Hill) From: Jim Dixon Date: 23 Dec 13 - 12:20 PM This song was mentioned earlier by Dick Greenhaus. These lyrics copied from FolkArchive.de; they are also in Joe Hill by Gibbs M. Smith (Gibbs Smith, 1969), page 248: First published in the 6 Mar 1913 edition (fifth edition) of the Industrial Worker "Little Red Songbook." STUNG RIGHT Words by Joe Hill, music "Sunlight, Sunlight" by W. S. Weeden 1. When I was hiking 'round the town to find a job one day, I saw a sign that thousand men were wanted right away, To take a trip around the world in Uncle Sammy's fleet. I signed my name a dozen times upon a great big sheet. CHORUS: I was stung right, stung right, S-T-U-N-G. Stung right, stung right; E. Z. Mark, that's me. When my term is over, and again I'm free, There'll be no more trips around the world for me. 2. The man he said, "The U. S. Fleet, that is no place for slaves. The only thing you have to do is stand and watch the waves." But in the morning, five o'clock, they woke me from my snooze, To scrub the deck and polish brass, and shine the captain's shoes. 3. One day a dude in uniform to me commenced to shout. I simply plugged him in the jaw, and knocked him down and out. They slammed me right in irons then and said, "You are a case." On bread and water then I lived for twenty-seven days. 4. One day the captain said, "Today I'll show you something nice. All hands line up; we'll go ashore and have some exercise." He made us run for seven miles as fast as we could run, And with a packing on our back that weighed a half a ton. 5. Some time ago when Uncle Sam he had a war with Spain, And many of the boys in blue were in the battle slain, Not all were killed by bullets, though; no, not by any means. The biggest part that died were killed by Armour's Pork and Beans. |
Subject: Lyr Add: ON SUNDAY I WALK OUT WITH A SOLDIER From: Jim Dixon Date: 23 Dec 13 - 09:51 AM The following song was mentioned by Flewruby above as the source for the tune of "I Don't Want to Join the Army": These lyrics, without a title, come from Gender and Power in Britain, 1640-1990 by Susan Kingsley Kent (London: Routledge, 1999), page 275: On Sunday I walk out with a soldier. On Monday I'm taken by a tar. On Tuesday I'm out With a baby Boy Scout; On Wednesday, with a Hussar. On Thursday I gang oot with a Kiltie. On Friday, the captain of the crew. But on Saturday I'm willing, If you'll only take a shilling, To make a man of any one of you. A couple of other books say the title is "On Sunday I Walk Out with a Soldier" and that it was sung by Gwendolen Brogden in the Palace Theatre revue "The Passing Show" in 1914. Different lyrics, and a different title, are found in The Ones Who Have to Pay: The Soldiers-Poets of Victoria BC in the Great War 1914-1918 by Robert Ratcliffe Taylor (Victoria, BC: Trafford Publishing, 2013), page 132: TO MAKE A MAN OUT OF YOU On Sunday I walk out with a soldier. On Monday a sailor for a pard. On Tuesday of course With a B.C. Horse; On Wednesday, a Home Guard. On Thursday I gang oot wi' a Kiltie. On Friday, a Fusilier or two. But as you've all been willing, It didn't need a shilling, To make a man of every one of you. |
Subject: Lyr Add: SALONIKA^^ and I WORE A TUNIC From: GUEST,colwyn dane Date: 02 Mar 01 - 07:47 PM Hi, Perhaps the 'D-Day Dodgers' song of WW1 was 'Salonika' as it expressed the concern of the soldiers stationed in the Greek port (which was used to mount and supply the Gallipoli expedition) on what they would find in 'Blighty'when they returned home - this was in 1915 and conscription was still a year away. There is a trace of resentment in the words against those who 'evaded' military service. Oh me husband's in Salonika, I wonder if he's dead. I wonder if he knows he's got a kid with a poxy head. (Chorus) So right away, right away, Right away, Salonika, right away, My soldier boy. Well, when the war is over, What will the soldiers do? They'll be walking around with a leg in their hand; The slackers they'll have two. Well, when the war is over What will the slackers do? They'll be hanging around the soldier boys For the loan of a bob or two. Well, They've taxed the pound of butter, They've taxed the penny bun, But still with all their taxes They can't beat the bloody Hun. Now when the war is over What will the slackers do? For every kid in America In Cork there will be two. Well, they've taxed the Coliseum, They've taxed St Mary's Hall. Why don't they tax the gombeens With their backs against the wall? Well, they take us out to Blarney And they lay us on the grass. They put us in the family way And they leave us on our arse. Well, never trust a soldier, A sailor or a marine, And keep your eye on the Sinn Fein boy With his orange, white and green.
Another 'anti-slacker' song was 'I Wore A Tunic' Colwyn. |
Subject: Lyr Add: THEY'RE TALKING WAR From: GUEST,2feathers Date: 02 Mar 01 - 04:13 PM Anti-war song after WWI and before WWII - does this fit the bill? THEY'RE TALKING WAR They're talking war Who's talking war? The yellow press We know what for Oh, the sent us out to wallow in gas and mud While the rich stayed home making cash from blood Try it again! Try it again! And we'll turn the tables then! They said to fight Boy how they lied To save our homes Country and pride Well we fough and we won as they said to do Now the banks have our homes and our country too Try it again! Try it again! And we'll turn the tables then. HTML line breaks added. -JoeClone, 9-Apr-01. |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: GUEST Date: 02 Mar 01 - 01:14 PM My information is spotty, but maybe worth a look: classical composer Charles Ives changed the lyrics of a WWI rallying song called "We Are There" or "Camping On A New Campground" that caused a stir because he sang "Goddamn" amongst all the dissonant chord changes. The details are in Jan Swafford's detailed and technical biography, Charles Ives: A Life With Music. Hope this helps. |
Subject: Lyr Add: DON'T SEND ME From: The Walrus at work Date: 02 Mar 01 - 01:01 PM From memory: DON'T SEND ME (To Boys of the Old Brigade)
Send out the Boys of the Girls' Brigade,
As for songs which could result in arrest, it is said that singing "McCafferty" (in the wrong company) could result in a charge of "Conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline.” Good luck |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: Dave the Gnome Date: 02 Mar 01 - 11:50 AM Hanging on the old barbed wire (in the DT) is a favourite of mine but I don't know if it is contemporary WW1. My grandad (Lancashire fusiliers 1914-1918) had not heard it before I sang it for him, but did enjoy the sentiment. Lots more verses than the ones listed including the General and the Quartermaster. Good for making up new ones as well! DtG |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: Wotcha Date: 02 Mar 01 - 11:28 AM Lots of the bawdy trench songs survive in modern use as rugby songs -- talk about a underground folk process ... The Hash House Harriers seem to have picked up a few as well. If you read the literature of the immediate post-war (WWI) years, you will find references to some of these songs. "The Bells of Hell", based on a child's rhyme, was used in a 1920s novel (I want to say the author was Noel Coward ...). Cheers, Brian |
Subject: Lyr Add: HANDSOME YOUNG AIRMAN and I DON'T WANT... From: GUEST,Roll&Go-C Date: 02 Mar 01 - 10:01 AM This version is close to what has been contributed above but in some ways is more complete and does have some significant variation in wording. I DON'T WANT TO JOIN THE ARMY-2 (Learned from the singing of Denis Puleston of Brookheaven, Long Island) Monday I touched her on the ankle, Tuesday I touched her on the knee, Wednesday with success I lifted up her dress, Thursday her chemise, gor-blimey! Friday I put my hand upon it, Saturday she gave me balls a tweak, But it was Sunday after supper, I rammed it up her scupper, Now I do it seven days a week, gor-blimey! I don't want to join the Army, I don't want me knockers shot away, I just want to hang around, Piccadilly underground, Living off the earnings of a high born lady, Call out the Army and the Navy, Call out the old Home Guard, You can always call the loyal Territorials, They'll save England with a smile, gor-blimey! Call out me mother and me brother, Call out the old Home Guard; You can call out me mother, Me sister and me brother, But for God's sake, don't call me! Then there's always "The Handsome Young Airman" from Card Sandburg's THE AMERICAN SONGBAG, a parody of a much older older song "Wrap Me Up in My Tarpaulin Jacket": THE HANDSOME YOUNG AIRMAN (ANON) A handsome young airman lay dying, And as on the airdrome he lay, To mechanics who 'round him came sighing These parting words he did say: "Take the cylinders out of my kidneys, The connecting rods out of my brain, The crank-shaft out of my backbone, And assemble the engine again." |
Subject: Lyr Add: SEEN FROM AN AID-POST^^ From: Auxiris Date: 19 Jan 00 - 11:24 AM And here's another one for those of you who might be interested in putting the text to music. cheers, Auxiris
SEEN FROM AN AID-POST
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Subject: Lyr Add: PROFIT AND LOSS^^ From: Auxiris Date: 19 Jan 00 - 07:58 AM Hello, everyone. Don't think this really helps Songbob's friend, as I cannot claim knowledge about whether it was ever recorded. However, since it may be useful to others, here's a poem that I found in a facsimile reprint of the B.E.F. Times that I purchased in a flea market in central France a couple of years ago. Don't see why it couldn't be made into a song. . . . cheers, Auxiris
PROFIT AND LOSS
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Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: raredance Date: 18 Jan 00 - 02:13 PM JOe, Sorry, I got sloppy with my citations. "I Don't Want to Go to War" and "Joan of Arc, They're Calling You" are both from the book "Ballads & Songs of WWI" by Jerry Silverman (Mel Bay Pub. 1997). Most of the songs are not what would be considered anti-war. INcluded are some that would fall into the soldiers' gripes category which could be construed as anit-war but in the context were more comic relief. rich r |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: fox4zero Date: 18 Jan 00 - 01:47 PM I apologize for wandering from the subject, but Sigfried Sassoon's name reminded me of the 4 best WWI journals I have ever read: Sigfried Sasoon's Memoirs of a Fox Hunting Man, Memoirs of an Infantry Officer, and Sherstons Progress. Also Robert Graves' Goodbye To All That. Sherston's Progress is about Sassoon's mental hospitalization following his refusal to return to the Front for a 3rd tour. It smells somewhat like the Soviet mental hospitalization of discidents except it preceded the Soviets by 20 years. Sassoon and Graves are mentioned in each others war books, and Graves includes a visit to Hardy in the 1920's...Hardy always seemed 19th Century to me. All 4 books are currently in Print by the Folio Society in London and in the US. Grave's book is available in soft binding, I think from Dover. Again..sorry for the diversion, but I do that a lot with aging. Regards from Larry PARISH |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: Penny S. Date: 18 Jan 00 - 12:37 PM If you're letting Hardy in, there's a few in Kipling. One called Mesopotamia, for instance. Can't call to mind the rest at the moment, away from my books. I don't think they're the most folk-songlike of his verses, though. Penny |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: Bob Bolton Date: 17 Jan 00 - 10:39 PM G'day again, Joe Offer: Can I protest that spelling it Dinkie Di is belittling? Well, anyway, the standard Australian spelling seems to be Dinky-di (The Australian Concise Oxford Dictionary, 2nd edition, 1992) or Dinky di. It was interesting to see that the song was still alive and kicking in the Vietnam war and acquired a USMC version. It certainly saw duty in both World Wars. Unfortunately for Songbob, I doubt that it was ever in print during the actual wars. Regards, Bob Bolton |
Subject: Lyr Add: SUDA BAY^^ From: Bob Bolton Date: 17 Jan 00 - 10:26 PM G'day again, These are the words for SUDA BAY (WW II version of for Suvla Bay). The song comes (at least) from WW I ... Suvla Bay was in the Gallipoli landing area (1915). Suda Bay was a battle of WW II). I have known this from the early '70s but this version is from: The Second Penguin Australian Song Book, Compiled by Bill Scott, Penguin Books, Australia, 1980. I have reproduce Bill's full comments after the song text. The tune is a typicall "weepy waltz" of the late 19th / early 20th century style and I presume, from the number of people that know it, that it had been published before being banned ... or at least discouraged. If anyone is interested, I could post a MIDIText file of the tune ... or email a GIF image of the page in Bill's book (since it is out of print.
In an old Australian homestead with the roses round the door, I first heard this song from a Royal Navy man in the wet canteen at the Small Craft Base at Colmslie in Brisbane during 1944, and included the words in a previous book. I commented there that I had never heard the song again. Since the publication of that book, several people have told me that they know or have heard the song, including my own mother. I suspect that it was a popular or folk song from the First World War which survived and regained currency during the Second World War. Suvla Bay was one of the beaches at Gallipoli where the ANZAC forces landed on 25 April 1915 and Suda Bay was a scene of action in Crete during the Second World War.
Bill Scott's comments: Bob Bolton |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 17 Jan 00 - 09:20 PM I've just had another look at the book - and there's an inscription indicating it was given to someone called Margaret Lee in Oxford in June 1918. So the poems would have been available in print (in the company of traditional sung ballads), while the war was at its height. |
Subject: Lyr Add: IN THE AMBULANCE^^ and RAINING^^ From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 17 Jan 00 - 08:56 PM I've got in front of me a book I bought in a jumble sale or somewhere years ago, called "The Minstrelsy of Peace", edited by J.Bruce Glasier, and published by the National Labour Press Limited (Manchester and London): "A Collection of notable Verse in the English tongue, relating to Peace and War, ranging from the fifteenth century to the present day."
It doesn't have a publication date, and it's not clear whether it was published during what it refers to as "The European War" or immediately after.
As the summary indicates, it's mostly older stuff gathered together, including some traditional songs such as "The Rambling Soldier" and "The Pressed Man's Lamentation".
In the section on "The European War" it's got various poems by writers including Siegfried Sassoon and Wilfred Wilson Gibson.
A couple of the latter writer's poems which are included, which have been anthologised fairly widely, would I think make a great song, and feel like they might well have been written as such, though I've never heard them sung. (They're very reminiscent of AE Housman's "Shropshire Lad"):
IN THE AMBULANCE
That's what he is muttering,
Both his legs were shot away,
"Two rows of cabbages
and the other one is
RAINING
"Not sense to come in when it rains -
And now I'm lying in this trench, |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: Joe Offer Date: 17 Jan 00 - 08:37 PM Hey, Rich - where are you getting these great songs from? Still the Little Red Songbook? -Joe Offer, always on songbook lookout- |
Subject: Lyr Add: JOAN OF ARC, THEY'RE CALLING YOU^^ From: raredance Date: 17 Jan 00 - 08:00 PM JOAN OF ARC, THEY'RE CALLING YOU (1915 by Frank Sturgis)
There's a tear in my eye for the soldier,
CHORUS:
There's a sigh in the trench for the hedgerows, Chorus This isn't "in your face" antiwar, but the sentiment is there even if the second verse seems to be a bit of a muddle. rich r |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: GeorgeH Date: 17 Jan 00 - 06:16 AM Let's get this straight . . Attributing "Oh What A Lovely War" to wot-is-name Attenborough is no more accurate than attributing it to John Lennon!!! "Oh what a lovely war" was created by Joan Littlewood and Theatre Workshop at the Theatre Royal, Stratford, East London. All Attenborough did was commit it to film, sticking fairly closely to the stage version. [Ewan MacColl is, of course, usually attributed as being a co-founder of Theatre Workshop with Littlewood, to whom he was married for some period.] But to return to the central question, most anti-war songs of this period in the UK were, indeed, "songs of the trenches". As I recall, "I Don't Want to Join the Army" was one such, and is a parody of a music hall song of the time. G. |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: Joe Offer Date: 17 Jan 00 - 02:03 AM I looked all over and couldn't find "Dinky Di" in the forum, the database, or in the FIRST Penguin Australian Song Book. Can somebody post it, please? ...but then I looked a little further and found it was in the database - DINKIE DIE (click). -Joe Offer, sheepishly- |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: Bob Bolton Date: 16 Jan 00 - 10:07 PM G'day fromm the depths of the antipodes, Pete M: Interesting to see you quote ascribed to Bob Dylan. I had heard of it as graffiti in a Vietnam latrine (very early in that mess). On the main thread: I believe a song, remembered in Australia ... and revived in the second round (the War After the War to End All Wars) had been suppressed in WW1. This is variously Suvla Bay or Suda Bay. The burden is that a girl joins the Red Cross to care for wounded soldiers after her sweetheart is killed. The authorities considered it sedition to suggest that our noble lads could be killed, or even wounded. I Will dig out the words, tune and history. I know that it is in the Second Penguin Australian Song Book, by Bill Scott, but I have heard a number of versions. I would also have various words to Dinky Di but I doubt that it was ever recorded or printed in wartime, being in the Trench Song category. Regards, Bob Bolton |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: Sorcha Date: 16 Jan 00 - 09:54 PM I think both "Channel Firing" & "Should I Ever Be a Soldier" will work the the melody of "Minstrel Boy"...appropriate, no? |
Subject: Lyr Add: I DON'T WANT TO GO TO WAR^^ From: raredance Date: 16 Jan 00 - 09:44 PM I DON'T WANT TO GO TO WAR words by Edward Madden; music by Henry I Marshall, 1914
Goodness Mercy! Listen Percy,
CHORUS:
Shades of Pharoah! Think of aero- repeat chorus
rich r |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: Metchosin Date: 16 Jan 00 - 01:44 PM There was a strong anti-conscription movement in Quebec during WW2 and I wouldn't be surprised if it was there during WW1 as well. I'm not familiar with any of the music there at the time but it could be another source for someone more familiar with Quebecois songs. |
Subject: Lyr Add: I DON'T WANT TO JOIN THE ARMY From: wildlone Date: 16 Jan 00 - 01:13 PM
I DON'T WANT TO JOIN THE ARMY.
I don't want to join the army, I don't want to go to war,
On Monday I touched her on the ankle,
repeatfirst verse -as dolefully as possible!
I don't want to join the army...
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Subject: Lyr Add: SHOULD I EVER BE A SOLDIER (Joe Hill)^^ From: InOBU Date: 16 Jan 00 - 11:51 AM This is a kind of anti war song, as the words are about fighting back with strikes, etc, so the soldier spoken of, is more about organised labour, in spite of the line about should a gun I ever shoulder... SO, without further adu... SHOULD I EVER BE A SOLDIER We re spending billions every year Should I ever be a soldier And many a maiden pure and fair Should I ever be a sholdier etc Why do they mount their gatling gun Yours, Fellow workers,
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Subject: Lyr Add: CHANNEL FIRING (Thomas Hardy)^^ From: wildlone Date: 16 Jan 00 - 08:31 AM This is not a song but Hardy came from a long line of musicians. His violin is still used now to play tunes from the Hardy family manuscripts. I am sure someone here could find a tune that might fit. CHANNEL FIRING Thomas Hardy That night your great guns, unawares, Shook all our coffins as we lay, And broke the chancel window-squares, We thought it was the Judgment-day And sat upright. While drearisome Arose the howl of wakened hounds: The mouse let fall the altar-crumb, The worms drew back into the mounds, The grebe cow drooled. Till God called, "No; It's gunnery practice out at sea Just as before you went below; The world is as it used to be: "All nations striving strong to make Red war yet redder. Mad as hatters They do no more for Christés sake Than you who are helpless in such matters. "That this is not the judgment-hour For some of them's a blessed thing, For if it were they'd have to scour Hell's floor for so much threatening. . . . "Ha, ha. It will be warmer when I blow the trumpet (if indeed I ever do; for you are men, And rest eternal sorely need)." So down we lay again. "I wonder, Will the world ever saner be," Said one, "than when He sent us under In our indifferent century!" And many a skeleton shook his head. "Instead of preaching forty year," My neighbour Parson Thirdly said, "I wish I had stuck to pipes and beer." Again the guns disturbed the hour, Roaring their readiness to avenge, As far inland as Stourton Tower, And Camelot, and starlit Stonehenge. April 1914. |
Subject: Lyr Add: I DON'T WANT TO JOIN THE ARMY (etc.) From: Flewruby Date: 16 Jan 00 - 05:45 AM There are two songs I can think of, both from the trenches as far as I know. Apologies if they come out a bit scrambled because I'm normally a 'lurker' at Mudcat and haven't yet worked out how to format lyrics or what will set the language-reject machine firing...
#1: I DON'T WANT TO JOIN THE ARMY
I don't want to join the army Can't remember the other verses to this one... #2: BOMBED LAST NIGHT
Bombed last night, and bombed the night before.
They're warning us, they're warning us.
Gassed last night, and gassed the night before.
They're killing us, they're killing us. |
Subject: Johnnie we hardly knew you From: Jeep man Date: 15 Jan 00 - 11:27 PM I think this is a variatiion of Whan Johnnie comes marching home. The lyrics would be appreciated. Jeepman |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: PHILIPPA Date: 22 Nov 98 - 02:40 PM If you do a forum search, you'll find a thread on an Australian WW1 song, Dinky-Di. I didn't look it up to see if it should be of any interest to you. Also, probably tangential to what you're looking for, the Irish war for independence coincided with WW1 (not so coincidentally "England's difficulty is Ireland's opportunity", the concern for other small nations such as Belgium, the resentment at recruiting) and this comes up in several Irish Republican and anti-recruitment (not necessarily anti-war per se!). Examples include "Come Out You Black and Tans" - "Show your wife how you won medals down in Flanders", "The Grand Old Dame Britannia" -
"You know we've got the Huns to quell and "The Recruiting Sergeant" -
"Come wind or rain and hail and snow There are two versions of "Johnny I Hardly Knew Ye" in the database. One is a straightforward anti-war song (as I know it he returned from Ceylon where the DT version has Ceylon), but the second is in the form of a WW1 anti-recruiting, pro-Irish nationalist song. Is "Will Ye Go to Flanders?" (Scottish) from WW1?
"Will you go to Flanders, my Molly-o proceeding to
"You'll see the bullets flying It's on the DT, as are "The Fires of Flanders" and "I Would that all the Wars Were Done". I don't know which of these were published. No post-WW2 material, anyway. And they must have been sung to have been passed on. |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: dick greenhaus Date: 19 Nov 98 - 05:33 PM BTW- "Browned Off" was Ewan MacColl's WWII re-write of a Joe Hill song called "Stung Right" , and anti-war song from WWI. That was the period in which a Bayonet was defined as a tool with a worker at each end. |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: Pete M Date: 19 Nov 98 - 03:00 PM Very good point Rich, wasn't it Dylan who said: "Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity."? Anyway, it raises a point I've been thinking about, and on which I would appreciate others views. Although the songs of the first WW are not my strong point, it is of interest, and it seems to me that generally when we talk about "anti war" songs we tend to lump together songs from three, or possibly four, quite distinct origins and with different purposes. 1. True anti-war ie pacifist, songs. 2.Songs decrying a particular war. 3. The "Sod the war, sod the army, and sod the bleeding CSM" type and a possible fourth - "Why did you have to go and get shot to hell? Of these by far the largest number, best known and possibly the best in artistic terms is No 3 into which virtually, if not all those identified by Songbob as "Trench" songs fall. eg "When this bloody war is over", "They were only playing leapfrog", D-Day dodgers" etc. I would also include "Hanging on the old barbed wire" in this category althogh it could also be included in (2). It is much harder to find "Folk songs" that come into the first two categories, notwithstanding Rich's contributions above (Possibly "Ye Jacobites by name" for (2)? and the only pacifist folk song that springs to mind is "Where have all the flowers gone?"). I would be interested in other's views. Pete M |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: rich r Date: 18 Nov 98 - 09:10 PM The "Christians At War" text demonstrates in the extreme that anti-war songs are not necessarily songs of peace. rich r |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: John in Brisbane Date: 18 Nov 98 - 07:45 PM This is all great stuff, but I must admit that I found Rich R's contribution of Christians At War one of the most stunning pieces of vitriol I've seen in a long time. Thank you to all. Regards John |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: Pete M Date: 18 Nov 98 - 06:57 PM Hi Barbara, I didn't mean to be critical, I can see how the confusion arose, one of those things which probably come down to personal circumstances. On your point about broadsides, I don't know how they would fit into the requested criteria, I would certainly include them under "published", but, remembering I am speaking from a UK perspective and limited to a relatively small set of primary sources, I do not believe that "anti war" broadsides were published at the time. Pete M
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Subject: Lyr Add: SOLDIER'S SWEETHEART (Jimmie Rodgers)^^ From: Date: 18 Nov 98 - 05:57 PM THE SOLDIER'S SWEETHEART by Jimmie Rodgers, 1927 This song was recorded by Jimmie Rodgers at his first ever recording session for RCA Victor's talent scout Ralph Peer 4 Aug 1927 (released as Vi 20864). © 1927 Peer International Corporation
Once I had a sweetheart,
He told me that he loved me,
But fate took him away
He says, "Goodbye, little darling,
He takes the golden finger ring
He promised he would write to me,
The second letter I got from him,
I'll keep all of his letters, MRS. Carrie Rodgers: " A pal of Jimmie's, Sammie Williams, told his sweetheart good-bye and went to France -- to be killed in action. So before the war was over, Jimmie found time to pick out words and air to his first composition, a sentimental song.... From the first his railroad buddies liked the song, and the young fellows in Meridian who were his boon companions liked it. With banjo, guitar, uke, they hung around the all-night places or strolled the streets playing and singing Jimmie's song along with 'Sweet Adeline' and other sentimental ballads. But it was not until some ten years later that the world heard -- and approved of it." From 'My Husband, Jimmie Rodgers,'
Dick, thanks for clearing out the double post. rich r |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: dick greenhaus Date: 18 Nov 98 - 05:47 PM Don't forget I DIDN'T RAISE MY BOY TO BE A SOLDIER |
Subject: Lyr Add: DON'T TAKE MY PAPA AWAY FROM ME^^^ From: rich r Date: 18 Nov 98 - 05:42 PM DON'T TAKE MY PAPA AWAY FROM ME by Joe Hill, 1915 Published in the March 1916 edition of the Industrial Worker "Little Red Songbook."
A little girl with her father stayed, in a cabin across the sea,
CHORUS:
Her tender pleadings were all in vain, and her father went to the war.
Here is another one that was written by someone and published, though it may not have been carried by the finest music stores of the time. sorry for the double posts above. I blame it on the blizzard rich r |
Subject: Lyr Add: CHRISTIANS AT WAR^^^ From: rich r Date: 18 Nov 98 - 05:29 PM I suppose this is borderline, but it was "published" CHRISTIANS AT WAR words: John F. Kendrick tune: Onward Christian Soldiers Published in Industrial Worker "Little Red Songbook," March 1916.
Onward, Christian soldiers! Duty's way is plain;
Onward, Christian soldiers! Rip and tear and smite!
Onward, Christian soldiers! Eat and drink your fill;
Onward, Christian soldiers! Drench the land with gore;
Onward, Christian soldiers! Blight all that you meet;
rich r |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: Barbara Date: 18 Nov 98 - 04:27 PM Sorry Pete, not enough sleep, and I saw both John Lennon's anti war film, "How I Won the War" and Richard Attenborough's "Oh, What a Lovely War" at about the same time in my life. It isn't as far a stretch as you seem to think. I didn't realize "published" excluded folk broadsides and such. Or that the songs from the trenches were exclusively word of mouth. He probably needs some sort of archive like the Levy Collection. Blessings, Barbara |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: Pete M Date: 18 Nov 98 - 02:26 PM Barbara - John Lennon??? um umm ummm words fail me. The songs in Oh what a lovely war (directed by Richard Attenborough) were all "folk" songs in the sense that they are of unknown authorship and transmitted orally. Songbob's friend criteria specifically excluded these, and asked for songs published at the time, ie ones written to be sold and/or performed professionally. A quick glance through the DT will I think demonstrate that the well known published songs of the period, eg "It's a Long, Long Way to Tipperary", "The Rose of Tralee" etc whilst popular with the troops, would come under the heading of sentimental ballads, not anti war songs. By the way Dick, sneaky trick that making the keyword wwi (whisky whisky india) not ww1 (whisky whisky numeral one), had me worried for a moment. Pete M |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: Barbara Date: 18 Nov 98 - 01:31 PM Hanging on The Old Barbed Wire |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: Barbara Date: 18 Nov 98 - 01:30 PM Wasn't it John Lennon's movie, 'Oh What a Lovely War' that was jam packed with period anti-war songs? At any rate, thats the movie's name, and it had, as I recall 15 or so good 'uns. Oh, What a Lovely War The Bells of Hell Go Ting-A-Ling-A-Ling (for me but not for you) They were only playing leapfrog, that's all I can recall at the moment, but, like Dick says, try the database. Blessings, Barbara |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: northfolk Date: 17 Nov 98 - 11:51 PM I submit that the song When Johnny Comes Marching Home / Johnny I Hardly Knew Ye, originated in the civil war days, and evolved in a number of forms popular during WWI, and sung by many performers to the present, fits your description...and is in the Database. |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: dick greenhaus Date: 17 Nov 98 - 09:08 PM Try searching the database for @WWI (the @ indicates a keyword). |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: DonMeixner Date: 17 Nov 98 - 08:42 PM Hello Bob, I think you'll find that with most events that had songs abbout them, like The Erie Canal the songs sung in the early days and months had little to do with the event it self. i.e: Most songs sung by cowboys on cattle drives had little to do with cowboys for quite some time. Finally some drover got tired of singing a song about a solfier with VD and changed the words to a Ranger who was gun shot. And we now have "Streets of Laredo" rather than " Bang the Drum Slowly" or "The Royal Albion" It was only after a while that soldier-poets began to put words to current tunes to create a body of work that other soldiers could relate to. I would look in the works of A.B. Paterson and Robert Service first. A search from there should dig up some good lyrics. |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: Moira Cameron Date: 17 Nov 98 - 08:08 PM I don't know if this would actually classify, but I always think of Ewan MacColl's song, "Browned Off", as a period anti-war song sung by the men on the front-lines. See the recent thread on MacColl to get the lyrics. The most notable refrain is "They browned me off to help to save Democracy." |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: Pete M Date: 17 Nov 98 - 07:23 PM I would have to agree with John. The first WW was notable not so much for the repression of anti war sentiment, the treatment of conscientiuos objectors is well documented, but was hardly different to the second. The main difference so far as I can tell from the reminisences of relatives and published sources was the lack of any focussed opposition to the war amongst the general population, indeed until the massacre of the Kitchener battalions on the Somme, it was quite the reverse. This feeling continued amongst the civilian population as evidenced by letters to the Times etc registering shock at the anti war ("Trench") songs sung by troops whilst marching, and persisted until late into the war if not to the end as demonstrated by Sassoon's "Blighters" which includes a reference to a tank. The likelihood of anyone risking both official censure and public opprobrium by publishing or attempting to publish, either as sheet music or recording, anything with an anti war sentiment is, in my opinion, vanishingly small. Actually, I would disagree with your friends basic tenet, I suggest that the widespresd distribution and knowledge of the "Trench" songs then and now, is a perfect example of the folk process getting a message "out there" far better than any published source of the day could have done. But then this is a folk site, so I'm biased. Pete M |
Subject: RE: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: John in Brisbane Date: 17 Nov 98 - 06:52 PM Tough call - In Australia (notwithstanding that entire male communities volunteered there was a very strong anti-conscription movement under the direction of Irish Catholic Arch-Bishop Daniel J Mannix, and as I recall there was at least one song on the subject during WWI. John Lahey's "Australian Folk Songs' had a song about Mannix which goes something like "We welcome you back and we greet you with pride, you're the man who defied all danger" (presumably demonstrating against conscription). As a complete guess I would suspect that very few homes would have owned gramophones at that time, probably restricted to the wealthy listening to classical music from the likes of local darling Nellie Melba. There was also no radio broadcasting until after the end of WW1. It is outside your friend's terms of reference, but the most likely (commercial) dissemination would have been via the sale of sheet music. Still backing my judgement - Mannix's most powerful form of propaganda would have been via the Catholic Advocate newspaper, a very potent form of communication until very recent times. Regards John |
Subject: Anti-war songs frm WWI From: Songbob Date: 17 Nov 98 - 05:00 PM A British colleague of mine on a songwriting listserv is looking for any mention, info, etc., on anti-war songs from World War I, but with this caveat -- he wants ones that appeared on records or sheet music contemporaneously with the war itself. That is, "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda" is out, since it's modern, and not from that time period, and most of the actual military "trench songs" didn't get onto records. He's trying to find out if any such songs really ever got "out there," since that war was notable for its repression of anti-war speech, etc. He'd accept anything up till, say, WWII, when anti-war songs would have a new focus. Anyone know of any? Thanks. |
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