BS: What's This- London Tornado?

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 11:59 AM

I once saw a tornado from the window of the London to Manchester train. It was, if I remember correctly, a summer's evening around 1999 or 2000. At that time my girl friend lived in London and I lived in Manchester - so we both did a lot of travelling backwards and forwards.
Somewhere, just about level with Birmingham, the sky got very black and I watched as a funnel shaped segment of cloud lowered itself to the ground about (I would guess) 4 or 5 miles away. Being an avid watcher of 'storm-chasing' documentaries on TV I was thrilled (although I imagine if I had been a native of the US mid-west I would probably have been under the table!).
When I got home I phoned my girl friend and told her about it. All she said was, "you've got an over-active imagination", but later that night I saw a news report which stated that several roofs had been damaged in Birmingham.

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 11:14 AM

Anyone citing the US "Tornado Alley" needs to be pretty careful about which Tornado Alley they have reference too. There are so many different views on how things should be classified that no two people seem to agree.

A quick look for "hard data" found a couple of "interesting" web sites, but they all were so popup/trash ridden and so badly constructed that I won't link to them. We have a number of "professionals" who chase tornados for scientific edification, and also a number who offer "schools for wannabes" to teach people how to get a look at one (more, or often less, safely?). The sites I won't link are generally by the "teachers" who show evidence perhaps of having been through a few too many twisters.

The UK appears to most resemble Florida in the US. They get lots of tornadoes, likely many more than the UK, but only occasionally have "significant" (F2) ones.

A "probably accurate" assessment of the US, for the southeast states where most tornado activity occurs, is:

Tornado Risk in the Southeast United States (PDF, 580 KB).

It's an "attachment" to a larger document that I didn't bother to look up, but appears to part of a "civil preparedness" document of some sort. The emphasis is sort of on "danger level" rather than raw likelihood of occurance. It does affirm substantial improvements in public safety due to better construction and better weather prediction/reporting.

Table 1. Top ten states for tornado casualties per year in the United States (1970-1999).

1. Texas 126
2. Mississippi 124
3. Alabama 122 8.
4. Ohio 85 9.
5. Oklahoma 66
6. Tennessee 60
7. Kentucky 59
8. Georgia 56
9. Arkansas 55
10. Indiana 52

Dangitall, Kansas didn't even make the list.

Table 2. Top fifteen states for tornado casualties per square mile (1970-1999).

1. Connecticut; 2. Mississippi. 3. Alabama; 4. Ohio; 5. Kentucky; 6. Indiana; 7. Tennessee; 8. South Carolina; 9. Delaware; 10. Arkansas; 11. Louisiana; 12. Georgia; 13. Oklahoma; 14. North Carolina; 15. Rhode Island

Missed there too.

"One cause for such high tornado casualties in the southern states is the nature of building construction. According to Brooks and Doswell (2001) the current death rate for mobile home residents is nearly equal to what the overall national rate was prior to 1925, and more importantly, is about 20 times the rate of residents in permanently built homes."

Table 3. Percentage of mobile homes compared to total housing (1990 Census Report).

1. New Mexico/South Carolina 17.8%
3. Wyoming 17.6%
4. Arizona 16.5%
5. West Virginia 16.4%
6. Montana 16.2%
7. North Carolina 16.1%
8. Mississippi 14.8%
9. Idaho/Nevada 14.6%
11. Alabama 14.3%
12. Arkansas 14.1%
13. Florida 13.4%
14. Kentucky 13.2%
15. Delaware/Louisiana 12.7%

So all them redneck trailer trash stories may have somethin' to 'em(?).

Table 6. Tornado casualties normalized for population density.

1. Mississippi; 2. Texas; 3. Alabama; 4. Oklahoma; 5. Arkansas; 6. Kansas; 7. Nebraska; 8. Kentucky; 9. Tennessee; 10. Georgia; 11. Iowa; 12. Louisiana; 13. Wyoming; 14. Missouri; 15. South Dakota; 16. North Dakota; 17. Indiana; 18. South Carolina; 19. Ohio; 20. Minnesota.

Table 7. Average number of tornadoes of intensity F2 or greater per year.

1. Texas 27; 2. Oklahoma 14; 3. Mississippi 12; 4. Iowa 11; 5. Alabama 9.4; 6. Kansas 9.3; 7. Arkansas 8.5; 8. Louisiana 8.4; 9. Illinois 8.1; 10. Indiana/Nebraska 7.6.

Well, Kansas made No. 6 on the last two.

John

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 07:05 AM

Does Jacqui C know about this Kitty?
G.

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 07:03 AM

I saw the lightning and heard the bang from my office in Westminster. Kendal Rise isn't very far from Harrow, so I was very relieved to find we'd escaped damage (though a branch came down in next door's garden last weekend after high winds).

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: GUEST,Wotcha in London
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 05:23 AM

Having spent many years in Oklahoma, twas surprised that my past caught up with me ... missed the tornado by loitering in Holland Park (NW9) that day as opposed to meandering further to NW11 (Kensal Rise) ... Maybe payback for Tuesday night's sing at Cecil Sharp House -- had a great time there!!
Cheers,
Wotcha (about to return to Baltimore)

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 02:27 AM

England is still a nice place to live it's just that the national obsession is talking about the weather. Other parts of the world have a climate and we have weather! We can have all four seasons in a day.

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: SINSULL
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 11:59 PM

The house began to pitch
The room to twitch
Then suddenly the hinges started to unhitch
Just then the witch
To satisfy an itch
Went riding on her broom stick
Thumbing for a hitch

Any sign of Mary Poppins?

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: Peace
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 08:18 PM

Nope, Bill. Raptors there from Jurassic Park.

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 08:02 PM

we could all move to Costa Rica

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 06:50 PM

Damn! It's a dangerous flamin' world out there!

I live in a seismically active area (on the so-called Pacific "ring of fire"). And I've hung on tight during a number of earthquakes.   The last one, the Nisqually quake on February 28, 2001, magnitude 6.8, was a doozy! It lasted for about 45 seconds and I thought the whole apartment building was going to wind up in my lap (" Oh, this is gonna hurt!"). People keep talking about The Big One. "We're overdue." I keep thinking about the possibility of going to live someplace else.

I like this area and I like living near bodies of water, but after seeing "Jaws" a couple of decades ago, I thought Kansas might be a nice place to live. And then about eleventy-fourteen tornadoes Mix-Mastered their way across the state, and I figured. "Well, maybe I better stay put."

Barbara and I watch "Masterpiece Theatre" and "Mystery" on PBS a lot, and they show a lot of British television productions. I guess you could say we're both a couple of Anglophiles, and when Bush was elected, Blair notwithstanding, I thought England might be a nice place to live.

But now, THIS!!!

AAAUUUUGH!!!
       —Charlie Brown

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: frogprince
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 06:43 PM

I've seen one classic funnel, skipping in country fields stirring up dirt, long ago in Minnesota; that one didn't hit anything of consequence. In Arkansas in 1971, I heard the classic "freight train" sound of one from where we took shelter, but never saw the thing; it uprooted a few trees and did minor household damage in town.
Little dust devils were about as common as mosquitos in southern Minnesota; generally they were more like something to muss up the dogs hair than something to tip a cow.

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: Gizmo
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 06:10 PM

Down here in the South East of London, we got some of the lightning and thunder, but loads of hail. I was in a hut at the kids school, making a pair of beaded earrings, when the tremendous pounding of the hail beat down on the corrugated roof.

It was brilliant seeing the hail pour down, while nice and cosy under shelter. At the time, none of us knew it was all down to a tornado in NW London.

My dad, who works in Southwark said the kids at the school where he works were amazed at how the sunny bright sky appeared to be pushing the dark clouds away over the other side of the river. Impressive colours too.

I wish I saw it.

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 05:48 PM

http://www.vvm.com/~curtis/Jarrell/BigJar.gif

This is the one that came through this area, almost 10 years ago now. Killed 27. Teenagers still get hysterical in storms.

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 01:00 PM

We have our share here in Ohio as well. Kansas gets a few more.....and y'all can have them!

Here's a nice little tornado.......before it destroyed most of the town

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 12:28 PM

Thanks for the report, Liz. That had to be scary.

I've been doing a little reading about it- and it appears that the UK has the highest number of tornadoes in EUROPE, not in the WORLD. (Small comfort, I know, when you're in the middle of one.)

The BBC has this to say:

"One or two tornadoes are reported every year in the UK, of varying severity. Most are very limited in area, and cause damage over a narrow band not many miles in length."

"The UK experiences an estimated 50 tornadoes on land each year, putting it top of the European twister league. The Netherlands is in second place, with an estimated 35 twisters each year over its comparatively small land area.

"Twisters are usually associated with the American Midwest, particularly the states of Oklahoma, Kansas and Nebraska - which comprise an area nicknamed "Tornado Alley".

"An average 1,170 twisters are observed on land each year in the US. The most violent can cause widespread destruction to property and lead to many fatalities. "

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 11:04 AM

The east London contingent are, as far as I know, all fine.. I watched the storm from my office window in north central London. where it was bright and sunny on one side of the room and black as pitch the other side. We had a spectacular view of the lightening, but the wind damage was beyond our horizons. The hail was like having someone fire a bag of gravel at your windows, it was coming in horizontally and the visibility at one point got down to just about the other side of the street. We're about 1/2 mile from Kings Cross Station, and that vanished completely! Watching the windows flexing like something out of 'Carrie' was a little nerve racking, but we survived.

Now I know you Yanks are all going 'call that a tornado? That weren't nothing but a lil'ole dust devil', but here in the Old Country, we're not used to such things. We don't have such hugely vast open spaces where a dust devil can spread out and get in touch with its inner chaos so that it becomes the screaming, roaring lump of weather you're used to. When we get dust devils we milk 'em for all they're worth!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 10:02 AM

Sorcha -

If the news reports were accurate, the velocity was there but the volume of air involved was smaller than we see in the wide open spaces.

In some places we see itty-bitty ones that we call "dust devils," that might tip a cow - but not a pickemup truck even if they hit dead on. They hardly ever do much damage.

One particular place along the west side of S. Washington state that we drove through quite a few times had pretty good sized ones nearly every time we went past, 100 feet across at the ground and about 150+ feet tall, that would give anything in the path a real wallop; but they never seemed to go anywhere. And in that particular place they'd have had to go a long ways to find anything to blow away. They were really big for dusters, but didn't appear to have any moisture in them, and moisture is usually a characteristic of a tornado.

If they were big enough (and tall enough) to hold the hail up, long enough for it to grow some, they could rightly be called tornados, but they do come in a broad range of sizes. (And sometimes they travel in bunches of small ones that add up to a big'un.)

The guy should'a known though that it's hard to get one to stop and pose for ya' up close. Usually, if you can hear it you're too close to get much of a snapshot.

John

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 09:14 AM

Uh......growing up in Kansas......I have to say....THAT was a tornado???? LOL! Looks more like just a normal wind.(I'm sure it wasn't funny to the people in it)

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: Grab
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 09:02 AM

It's like snow - when it turns up, no-one knows what to do about it. Americans know tornados, so they stay safe. They don't do like that bloke on the BBC News did.

"I saw a tornado out of my window. It was huge and going along the street making a noise like a jet plane. So I went to the window to take a photo of it."

It's a shame some people don't get Darwinised and improve the gene pool...

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 08:54 AM

While on my way out to start work in Pocatello the city had its first ever recorded tornado. No one was injured and there was little damage, but some felt there was a cause-and-effect thing going on....

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 06:15 AM

Giok,

Tell her to stop eating beans. As for the dog, can't do anything about the wind...

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 06:14 AM

Giok -

That ^#%@$! little dog is a sheep-killer from Oklayhowma. Shoot the dirty little &*^()!!.

And don't let the little girl try to jine up with your music troupe. She claims she can sing but cain't stay in the same key for four notes in a row.

John

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 06:10 AM

mack -

No such thing as a small tornado in our vernacular. There's bad ones and then there's worse ones.

It appears from the early reports - links above - that there were few injured, and significant but not overwhelming damage to buildings. We'll hope that report holds up as more comes out about the London one.

We get queasy feelings whenever someone uses "the _\T_/ word" - especially in connection with places where we might have friends.

Whenever someone brings up the weather, Lin's likely to say "ya ain't seen nothin' like ..." Her brother told me (several times) the year she was born, their "home town of Higgins TX was all but wiped out by one of them thar twisters, with the result that she had to be bornded in Perrytown 'stead of at home with her ma like she'd a wanted."

Higgins may be compared with the BBC photos linked up above.

Oklahoma City Times - Thursday, Aril 10, 1947 gives an original story.

Lin didn't get there 'til a a bit after it hit; but she still likes to talk like it was a "personal experience."

We've unfortunately seen lots of pictures like "Higgins" over the years around here. Only the big ones get a lot of coverage now, and the Higgins area monster is considered the 4th biggest ever in Texas and 6th among US killers; but we still pay attention when the weather turns, or looks like it might.

Weather warnings have gotten a lot better, and construction is a little more robust, so we don't lose as many people as we once did; but they're still a constant threat - and Kansas where we are now, despite it's reputation, ranks well down on the list of places where they're most numerous in the US, but a little higher up for big 'uns.

Hoping for good reports, especially on any or our folk who may have been in the area.

John

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 05:33 AM

do you know that Britain per square mile has the most Tornados on the world.

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 04:53 AM

No one was badly hurt.
No need to worry.

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 04:49 AM

Micca, Liz the Squeak, catsPHiddle and Manitas all live in the East End. I THINK that area was clear, but has anyone any news?

Rhiannon

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 04:44 AM

Anybody know a little girl called Dorothy, she turned up on my doorstep yesterday along with her little dog?
Keeps complaining about the wind!
Nice shoes though!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: Dazbo
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 04:42 AM

Apparently we get about 60 tornados per year. Fortunately most are in rural areas or off shore.

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 04:39 AM

Guardian post

BBC Pictures?

John

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 01:49 AM

I don't think we are in Kensal anymore Toto.

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: Peace
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 01:42 AM

sIx's link.

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Dec 06 - 11:32 PM

He's in the East End, I think.

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 07 Dec 06 - 11:24 PM

Once in a science article, there was a claim that the British Isles have more tornados than any other part of the world. Many occur in the Irish Channel and almost all are mild; but they're still number one.

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Dec 06 - 11:06 PM

Where does Micca live? It says this was in the northwest area.

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Dec 06 - 11:05 PM

"This Page is Unavailable"

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: number 6
Date: 07 Dec 06 - 11:05 PM

damned blue clicky ... anyway my apologies ... but google South London press ... some good info there.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: number 6
Date: 07 Dec 06 - 11:03 PM

london tornado

Subject: BS: What's This- London Tornado?
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Dec 06 - 10:57 PM

Homes damaged and half a dozen people injured. Is there any more information?