BS: Women's Self Defense

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 04:12 AM

In the UK, it would probably be "OK" to leave a baby in the car with the window closed, but try doing it to a dog and you'll have hell to pay!

I've lost count of the times I've seen mothers at supermarkets unlock their car, put the baby carefully into its seat, then unload groceries from the trolley into the boot, carefully lock the boot and return the trolley to the park - leaving a child in an unlocked car all ready to be stolen!

If you've got to take the baby to the supermarket, park next to the trolley park rather than the entrance. Load the groceries first, leaving the baby in the trolley, making sure of course, that the trolley cannot roll into the path of an oncoming vehicle, take the trolley to the park and bring the child back. That way, if anyone is going to steal your car, they've only got your groceries and not your baby.

Actually, parking near the trolley park is good advice for anyone, it's usually well lit, you won't have to walk back across acres of empty car park without a protective trolley (they're really good weapons for swinging into people's legs) and you don't clutter up the car park with discarded trollies.

LTS

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Slag
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 03:19 AM

Yes, a cultural difference, much to the shame of some in our culture.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Wolfgang
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 08:01 AM

Slag's story about the baby in the SUV, while the mother was at the PO made me realize once more how different cultures are. No one over here would find that scenario something that needs watching unless the kid was crying. If you'd report that they'd look at you unbelievingly. Some weeks ago a car thief drove away with a car with a baby without realizing therwe was a baby in the car. When it woke up and made noises he left the car on the spot.

But if the window of the car was closed that would be very different and draw a crowd ready to break a window. They'd tell the returning mother that next time she'd at least leave a window open.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 04:00 AM

Oh BErt....... here boy!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Bert
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 06:51 PM

No jacqui.c - ALL Mudcat women are just darlings, they have to have advice to try to look fierce.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 11:43 AM

Sure will. A tightly rolled newspaper or magazine has about the same hardness as a comparable piece of wood.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: David C. Carter
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 11:18 AM

Two guys carrying knives came into the carriage I was sitting in.They started threatening people,demanding their cell phones etc.I was reading a couple of computer magazines.I rolled them up together,as tight as possible and sat there till my turn came.One of the bastards aproached looking down at me and brandishing his knife.I jumped up,and jammed the rolled up magazines under his nose.He went down,there was blood gushing from his face.Two other passengers stopped his mate from running away.The police asked me what I'd hit the guy with...I showed them the rolled up magazines,not an offensive weapon I was told!I told them that a rolled up newspaper,folded double can also do a lot of dammage too.
David

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: jacqui.c
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 10:47 AM

Oh, and a little bit of a scowl won't hurt either, make them think "I don't want to get involved with THAT BITCH".

Bert - I didn't know we'd met! :0)

That sums up to a T the way I behaved when travelling!

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 10:11 AM

Fairbairn's technique is a genuine life-saver. His pistol-shooting method may now have been superceded, but the hand-to-hand stuff is as valid today as ever. He coined the word 'defendu' for a discipline which was an amalgam of the various martial arts techniques which were most likely to incapacitate someone, and his methods were used to good effect by his officers of the Shanghai Municipal Police.
His work ( and later collaborative training developed with Bill Sykes) still forms the backbone of most British and US military self-defence techniques.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Paul Burke
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 09:39 AM

I recommend Self Defence for Women by Nora Bolokov.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 09:25 AM

It's all "if you can", Liz. A clog dance on the instep is quite nice, with or without an a capella patella.

It's important to look like you know what you're doing and where you're going, but remember that there are those who will "fix that uppity bitch." Rape is not a crime of sexuality, but of control and domination and an "uppity bitch" is a threat and challenge to some.

Looking pathetic and lost is an open invitation, however....

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 05:15 AM

"The police here tell us not to carry our purses diagonally across the shoulder because that way they have to take you down to get it. If its over your shoulder, they can grab it and run without harming you."

There ya go dianavan; ask 2 people for advice, you'll get 5 opinions! The police officer friend I was discussing this thread with gave the advice I posted. He explained the difference:~ a bag snatch is usually opportunist and the ability to make a quick grab and getaway is paramount. Carrying your bag across your body gives you two hands free to fend them off and also means you're less likely to put it down on a chairback in a cafe and lose it that way.

Rapaire, if I could get my foot up to an attackers kneecap height, it would be fine. Bear in mind that although I'm not quite as round as I am high, my hips are a bit closer to the ground than the average person. The one time I was attacked, his kneecap was somewhere level with the middle of my thigh where he was trying to extinguish a cigarette at the time.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Bert
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 01:47 AM

I don't think enough has been said about jacqui.c's post where she says appear confident.

It is probably the simplest thing to do and the most effective.

Shoulders back, head up and stride confidently, just a little faster than most other people. If you don't look like a victim type then most potential attackers will look for easier prey.

Oh, and a little bit of a scowl won't hurt either, make them think "I don't want to get involved with THAT BITCH".

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 09:17 PM

If you really want to learn some of this, I recommend two books:

"Jiu Jitsu Complete" by Kaose Nake (old, excellent, and I've spelt his name wrong)

"Get Tough! How to win in hand-to-hand fighting...." by Captain W. E. Fairbairn (yes, THAT Fairbairn). Originally published for the British Armed Forces in 1942, my copy is by Paladin Press, 1979.

Remember, you didn't start the fight, you didn't want the fight. Therefore, you will win the fight and you will do so by using extreme violence. And remember -- ANYTHING can be used as a weapon.

Even better than fighting is leaving or, best of all, not being there in the first place!

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: alanabit
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 09:05 PM

Everything the other posters have said, especially Rapaire. Of course, the main difference between survival fighting and sport fighting, is that the latter is deliberately structured to give both sides an even chance and to reduce the prospect of injury.
The phrase "fair fight" is an oxymoron on a level with "beautiful orc" or "virgin whore". There is no such thing as a "fair fight".
Remember, if you have an attacker's hand on you, your whole hand is stronger than a single finger. Do not hesitate to break or dislocate a finger. You ain't arm wrestling, you are fighting. Bite anything within reach of your teeth. If you get a shot at getting a blow in, good targets are the Adam's apple, or just below it, the soft part under the chin (a thumb will do the trick if it is jerked hard), the fleshy part of the armpits, the pressure points at the side of the neck, the temples (if hit with a knuckle on each side) the pressure points between the skull and the top of the jawbone (just below the earlobe). Another soft target is the area between the hip bone and the bottom of the rib cage.If you are attacked from behind, you may get lucky and catch that with an elbow. As Rapaire says, if you hit it with something hard, so much the better. Do any of that in karate and you will get banned for life. In a street fight you will not be asking for a rematch. If you do get knocked down, try to keep your assailant at bay with your feet. Your legs are stronger than your arms, so scream and make a lot of noise, while using short, snappy kicks, to buy you time.
Best of all, get the hell out of danger before a fight even starts. The best fights are the ones you never get in.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 08:59 PM

Better yet, don't carry a purse. Use a belt pouch, if you must, and wear it in front.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: dianavan
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 08:56 PM

LTS - "If you use a shoulder bag, wear it diagonally across your body rather than looped over one shoulder."

The police here tell us not to carry our purses diagonally across the shoulder because that way they have to take you down to get it. If its over your shoulder, they can grab it and run without harming you.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 08:53 PM

Photocopy the front and back of all credit cards, then keep the original at home and carry a copy of the copy when you travel. Keep it in a ziplock bag in whatever you carry your toothbrush, etc. it.

Cell phones, iPods, Walkmen, and similar items can be deadly. They distract you and prevent you from hearing someone approaching from behind. I know of several cases of rape (and one rape-murder) that were committed because the victim was paying attention to something other than her surroundings. Don't use them on the street, please!

And on that subject, if you must run, kick off high heels. You'll ruin your hose, but what the hey!

And Liz -- placing the outside edge of your "trainers" (sneakers) above the kneecap and THEN scraping downwards along the shin, following by a little bouncy jig* on the instep, will not make your assailant happy. Especially since he'll need a brand new kneecap, at the very least.


*Or a hornpipe. Hum a little tune while you do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 08:00 PM

"Alright... some tips not just for women."

"standing on their foot in a stiletto heel and pushing with all your weight."

Liz, I just can't get the hang of wearing those things.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 07:52 PM

And don't put anything valuable in a backpack. People can just help themselves to the contents while you are wearing it.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 07:28 PM

Alright... some tips not just for women.

Running a hard shoe heel down an attackers' shin can take their mind off things for a while, as can standing on their foot in a stiletto heel and pushing with all your weight.

If you are wearing soft trainers, the scraping down a shin isn't as effective, but you can still make a pretty good impression on their instep if you tread down hard enough. If you're wearing flipflops or those flappy sandals, kick them off because it's bloody hard to run whilst wearing them. Aim to get the attacker off balance whilst remaining upright yourself.

If someone puts their hand over your mouth from behind, stick your tongue out and lick it, get it nice and slobbery... it's amazing how many people instinctively pull their hand away and if that doesn't work, the saliva may act as a lubricant so you can twist out of it and bite a finger.

A bunch of keys held in the hand can make a pretty good knuckle duster - find a really big, robust metal keyring or use a climbing carabinner that your fingers can fit into.

Don't carry a blade. Chances are it's a) illegal in your country/state, b) it'll be in the bottom of a purse, case or pocket where you can't get to it quickly and c) an attacker will use it against you. If you really feel the need to carry something and want to remain legal, then a steel nail file with plastic handle can be used to pretty good effect - the point is usually sharp enough to break skin and the rough file surface will collect enough skin for DNA analysis. It's also a fairly innocent piece of daily junk that anyone might have, so if you do get stopped by the police, you're in the clear.

Walk confidently, keep to the road edge of the pavement/sidewalk and try to avoid using your mobile phone (cell) in public areas. If you are going anywhere alone to meet with someone you barely know (like a blind date or to buy a vehicle/house), have a friend primed with the name and address of your destination and an ETA back home. Text or leave a voicemail when you get to the destination and again when you are home safe.

Don't tie your scarf in one of those loop knots, or wrap it completely around your neck - you'll just create a nice noose for anyone to immobilise you with.

If you use a shoulder bag, wear it diagonally across your body rather than looped over one shoulder. This makes it harder for a bag snatcher to grab it so they'll be less inclined to try. Also, you won't waste energy hoisting it up or risk dropping it and tripping in the strap if you have to run. In bad weather, wear your bag inside your overcoat as this will make it harder to spot and anyone grabbing you just gets your coat.

Never ever EVER carry your purse or wallet in a back pack. Make sure the zips are secure and preferably are the sort that have two zippers on one opening - use both sides of the zip, have them meet at the top and either split ring them together or use a small padlock. If the bag is the sort that has a flap that goes over the main pockets, make sure it's velcroed down and the zippers can't be seen. If the bag has two straps then use both straps, don't hang a back pack over a shoulder by one strap, it's too vulnerable. Don't put your mobile phone in the little pockets they put on the front for mobile phones.... it's like writing 'BACON' on the side of a pig.

Have your banks contact numbers written somewhere other than on the back of your credit cards - if they get stolen and you're not near a phone book, how are you going to call and get them cancelled?

Take care.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Slag
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 07:03 PM

I believe it is called "Defenso" and is a great system that does not require great strength. I haven't Googled it yet but if I remember right it uses things like bending fingers, pen or pencil through the ear, eye gouges, etc. I saw it demonstrated once and it is powerful stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 06:30 PM

My ex was a karate nut and taught it for many years and perticipated in as mnay tournaments as she could get to an all that but...

...one weekend her sansia brought in a guy from North Carolina by the name of Ron Cherry and what he taught was not exactly karate but very effective self defense which was based on some very nasty stuff before runnin' off...

He had taught federal agents the same stuff so it's very effective... I'm not too sure if he still teaches as it's been about 15 years since I completed the training... I remember the moves but not the name of his training...

Maybe some of the folks here who may still be beatin' themselves up with karate have heard of him or his techniques but, hey, they can work if one just spends a little time, unlike karate, mastering them...

I'll sniff 'round and see if I can find Ron...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 06:03 PM

The old adage, "If it sounds too good to be true it probably is" applies to a whole lot of things.

And playing on someone's sympathy, their humanity, to hurt them in some way (including financial) is subhuman and selfish.

Always go with your gut! You might miss a wonderful party, but you might keep alive, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 11:07 PM

In reply to a question a few posts back: I think the thread is about "Women's" self-defence because it is a spin-off from another thread which had digressed on to that specific topic.

Another point. It is really important for (relatively) older women (preferably) to tell younger women about this stuff, especially about avoiding dangerous situations, being alert, paying attention to your intuition, not allowing yourself to be manipulated, etc. There are many young people out there with (by definition) limited life experience who do not read books or magazines, nor watch or listen to anything useful on TV, the net, etc. They need to be told things that a lot of other people, like those of us here, just pick up. Tell them - you may save a life or two.

Last point (for now). A favourite trick of someone who is trying to con you into something - by "helping" him out, letting him use your phone, etc. - is to keep talking to you, providing lots of details that you didn't ask for. This is to keep you distracted so that you are unable to think clearly about what is going on, and you are unable to hear that little voice saying, "Somethng is wrong here". I've gotten taken this way a couple of times (no grave consequences, just handed over more money than I should have, bought an appliance I didn't need ... ).

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: jacqui.c
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 07:32 PM

One thing I remember in graphic detail from a self defence course that the local police held in our office a few years back.

They were talking about what to do if being raped. If there was no alternative than to submit, for whatever reason, it was suggested that, once the guy had penetrated to try and get your feet inside his ankles and then push out with your legs. It appears that this will cause a sort of 'pulling the wishbone' effect or, as the instructor said "no more babies"!

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 05:11 PM

Druther be a live lion. It's better than being a dead one, and usually easier.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 04:38 PM

I hear you. I'd rather be out of the area, as I know you would. I HATE that crunchy/cracky sound of things going snap. I hate the moans, too (especially my own). Always easier on this old boy to be elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 04:28 PM

Hey, Peace! How'd ya like to handle THAT call?

"Balls!" she thought, "If I had two I'd be...hey, well wadda ya know?!"


Serious question:

Why is this thread dealing only with women? Men, for all their bluster, usually don't know much about self-defense either.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 04:24 PM

Rapaire: That post belongs on the 'freeze your balls in cold water' thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 04:21 PM

Slam the base of the palm of your hand into the bottom of your attacker's nose. I mean, hard -- like you want your hand to come out the back of his head (it's called "punching through the target"). You WILL disable him, and you might very well kill him.

Don't bother with a knee or kick to the crotch -- all he has to do is turn ever so slightly and you'll knee or kick his leg. Instead, very forcefully grab upwards between his legs, grab whatever you can, and while holding VERY tightly yank downwards, twisting as you do so.

If you must strike with your hand, hold something hard -- a lighter, a short thick stick, a tube of lipstick -- in such a way that it sticks out above the top edge of your fist and hit with that. NEVER hit with your fist (unless you've been properly trained to do so).

Never submit. Fake it, if you must do so to get a chance to attack. If it's money they want, give it. You can replace things, you cannot replace yourself.

I know of a woman who quite literally ripped the testicles off a rapist. She handed them to the police, who found him in the local Emergency Room. (Yes, he was a rapist -- he'd attacked others but this time, well....)

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Slag
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 02:31 PM

Couple of ideas when approaching your car. If you have a radio lock, don't unlock until you are at the car. When some distance off, look under your car, closer if you must. Walk passed your car. If lurker is about, someone eyeing you hard, head off to elsewhere and get help. Look for stuff under your tires. Eyeball the backseat before you open the door. Don't leave temptation in plain sight. Put purchases and mail in the trunk if you are going shopping or will be away from your vehicle.

If it's a robbery just give them what they want. If it's YOU they want there's plenty of good advice above as to how to handle yourself.

I was at our local Post Office one day and I noticed an SUV with the windows partially down and a baby alone in an infant seat! I could'nt believe it. I stood by for almost ten minutes to watch over the situation. Finally a woman came out of the PO and I said to her "Lady, if I were the wrong type person you would no longer have that baby!" She cussed me out!!! I thought about reporting her but decided against that course rather quickly for obvious reasons. I hope my comment to her made a lasting impression.   Better that than to disrupt her family. However I could be wrong on that point. It was a judgment call.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 01:59 PM

The knee to the groin defense is not all it's cracked up to be because most men will protect that area. Learn to hit the eyes with your fingertips, the neck with the inside of your hand--thumb tucked under the fingers--, learn to use the heel of your hand as the striker (because most people make really bad fists which are more likely to hurt you by breaking your fingers or wrists than hurt the attacker when you strike) and learn to use the elbows. Kicks are foolish for most people to use because they are seldom fast enough to hit the target, and if your feet are not held purposely in a given way, you will break the mechanism that provides your best defense: running away.

Most people are not mentally prepared to gouge an eye out or rip off an ear. Unless you are, you will likely lose unless your training has been purposeful and lengthy. Lengthy means that you'd require at least two years at a few hours every day with a good instructor, and then you'd require to continue that training for the rest of your life. Also, it's best to take a training wherein you get struck by the people with whom you spar, because if you can't handle the first few hits to your body, all the martial arts in the world ain't gonna help you.

Learn the strike areas and be prepared to hit the attacker in those areas. These areas will be easy to find once you learn some basic anatomy. You can interrupt the heart rhythm with a palm strike. You can rupture a spleen or severely damage a liver with a finger strike. You can blind someone with your fingers, break an eardrum with your palm. You can crack ribs with the heels of your palms. If you are fortunate enough to knock your opponent off balance, please be prepared to crush his larynx with the heel or side of your foot. If he's face down, drop your body weight and use your knees to rupture one or both kidneys. If you are not prepared to do that, then you were in the wrong place to begin with, and you fooled yourself into thinking that you were prepared for self defense. Few people are trined well enough for self defense that does not involve causing serious injury to an attacker.

All the 'what if he does this' fighting bologna means little on the streets. Chances are he's had some training also, and he ain't gonna DO that.

Be aware--or as the aviators say, "Check your six!" Always. Be aware of what's going on around you at all times, and when situations seem to be getting tense, it's time to leave. Do so. There are no good or bad guys in fights on the street. There are those who leave and those who don't. The best weapon you have is your brain. Use it to stay away from bad situations. Walk wide at corners; stay near the curb when you pass buildings; walk two blocks out of your way if six or seven people are 'hanging around' on a street at night; walk in the park with some friends--and night is a really stupid time to do that. If you work a late shift and you don't feel safe going to your vehicle, ask your company to have someone escort you or ask a friend to come meet you. Rule #1: Do NOT be where the shit hits. Rule #2: See Rule #1.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 11:59 AM

Don't shout 'help' or 'rape', people ignore that. Shout 'Fire', it's more likely that people will come and look.

Trouble is, even in broad daylight on a busy street, people will look the other way. Here's a prime example: One Friday lunchtime, I was walking down my street when a young (early 20's) black girl ran out into the road, shouting for help. She was holding her trousers up and had blood on her clothes. The woman unloading her groceries not 5 feet away actually turned her back on the girl and carried on taking stuff from the car.

If you lose control of a situation, then passiveness is likely to get you hurt less. Don't keep all your cash, cheques and cards in the same purse, hand over any cash and you could get away unscathed.
If the attacker is determined to hurt you, then concentrate on collecting evidence; focus on eyes, ears, hands, teeth, so that you can describe them accurately. Try to pull some hair out or scratch deeply enough to draw blood in a visible place like the face or hands. A finger in the eyesocket will put most people off their stroke and is more likely to cause pain than a knee in the squidgy bits. Unless you are braced against something and can really drive your knee up, then all you'll do with a knee in the goolies is unbalance yourself and end up on your ass on the floor.

There have been other threads with some good information and advice in, but I'm at a loss as to where it would be.

LTS



(I stopped and helped, thinking the girl had been raped. She was OK but her boyfriend had slashed his wrists and she was screaming for help as the ambulance hadn't turned up. I'd walked past the ambulance a few minutes earlier at the top of the road, where the crew were looking at a road map. They took a further 20mins to get to the patient who was a 3 minute walk away, during which I administered 1st aid as best I could. I have to conclude that the other woman just was too busy to help, I hate to think she was being heartless, racist or just plain mean.)

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 10:04 AM

This is genuine serious advice heard or read from somewhere many years ago:

last resort defence tactics if pinned down
and about to be forced
to submit to penetrative sex,

try to make yourself throw up and shit.

Whichever defense expert advised this,
argued that this tactic would deter
at the last moment
all but the most determined & squalid
rapists.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 09:48 AM

A lot of sensible advice. A couple of comments:

Re: keys. Do like the guys - have them in your hand before you head out into the parking lot. That way you won't have to stand by your car rummaging through your handbag looking for them.

Re: knee to the groin. If you do employ this time-honoured tactic, give it all you've got. My old judo instructor used to say, "Give him three Adam's apples." If you hit your assailant hard, it will disable him; if you just give him a little nudge, you will make him really mad.

And, you've heard it before but it can probably never be said too often: pay attention to your gut feeling. If you've got the feeling that something's not quite right, get out of the situation - you can figure out what it was that was not quite right when you're safe at home - or at the shelter, or wherever. Unfortunately, as is well-known, sometimes young women in particular are manipulated into remaining in dubious situations through their desire to appear sophisticated. In reality, no man loses his respect for a woman when she says, "I have to go now", if that man had any respect for her to start with.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: jacqui.c
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 09:20 AM

FWIW - I was taught that it may be possible to deter a would be attacker by cultivating body language. Most attackers will be looking for an easy victim - they don't want to work too hard or risk injury to themselves. By developing a confident posture and even, if you can, making yourself look unwelcoming, an attacker may decide that you look like too much trouble.

When I worked I occasionally had to travel back to my home just outside London from the City. That meant an hour's journey on a train travelling through some of the seedier parts of the metropolis. I always sat in a corner, out my bag on the seat beside me (with the strap over my arm) and read a book or a paper. I was aware of what was going on around but never made eye contact with other travellers. Much as you may dislike it giving off the right vibes can be protection in itself.

Walking through the City at night, my bag was always under my arm with my forearm resting over the top of it. I kept a watch in any available windows to check who might be behind me - sometimes the shadows from street lights can give a lot of information. I always tried to look as if I belonged there and that the fact that it was dark and the streets were deserted did not concern me.

It is a shame that we have to think in these ways but, better that than to be the victim of an attack because you weren't aware of what was happening around you. I'm not sure what I would/could do if attacked. At 5'2" and with arthritis I really do not have much strength to fight off an attacker. I'm not sure that, like Janie, I wouldn't freeze if attacked. I hope that I never have to find out.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 08:59 AM

All of the above is correct, even the first half of Midchuck's.

As one who taught hand-to-hand combat in the Army, I'd also suggest:

1. Mental preparation. Realize that if you are attacked and fight back you WILL injure, and can even kill, your attacker. You can inflict anything from scratches to blindness to crippling to death, even if your intent is simply to get away. But if you are attacked, explode violently. This alone, as noted above, will cause many attackers to flee rather than get hurt. And scream "Fire!" while you're attacked -- it's more likely, especially in a city, to get help than simply yelling "Help!"

2. Work against the weak spots. For example, if you are being choked from the front with both hands, bring your hands (clasped togther) up between the bad guy's arms and explode them outwards. This will rip his hands from your throat by "working against the thumbs" -- the weakest part of the grip. If you're choked by an arm from behind, turn your head so that it lies parallel to the baddy's arm -- this will prevent him from pressing on you windpipe and cutting off your air.

3. You needn't be a Black Belt or Master. Learn a half-dozen USEFUL things and learn them so that they are second nature to you. It's all very well to be able to deliver a round-house kick but it's of no use at all if you're grabbed from the rear! So forget the movies and TV and go for the useful instead of the showy.

4. Don't go where you might be attacked, run if you can, fight if you absolutely must, and if you fight, fight to win by hurting, crippling or even killing.

5. Put not your faith in gadgets, from guns to pepper spray. Put your faith in yourself and your own abilities.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Janie
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 08:45 AM

Some people are more psychologically prepared to defend themselves that others. Years ago I was living in a rough neighborhood, and was urged to keep a gun in the apartment. Seriously doubting that I could bring myself to use a gun, I declined. This is the scenario that played out in my head.

Sound of glass breaking.

Oh! Intruder in the living room-quick, get the handgun from the nightstand!

Walk into living room, gun in hand, and confront intruder.

Yell "Stop, or I'll shoot myself!"

I know from experience that I freeze when unexpectedly confronted with danger. Slag's 1st three suggestions are the best ones for me.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Midchuck
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 08:09 AM

There are two really effective martial arts: Run Fu and Gun Fu.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 04:09 AM

Excellent advice, Slag. All of it.

"If you are carrying keys, pick out the longest one and carry it protruding between your middle and ring finger of your strongest hand."   

Having that jagged little key between my fingers makes me feel like I might be able to defend myself.

Good sequence of 'soft targets'.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: alanabit
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 04:07 AM

I can go along with all of that, but a note of caution. I am not an expert, but I have been training constantly in various forms of fighting sports since the early seventies.
Most serious fights are decided in the first three seconds. Any man, who is of average size and strength would have a colossal advantage over me - I am five foot four. Effectively, I only have a chance of surviving serious injury if my opponent makes a big mistake. It is possible to throw someone bigger and stronger, but you have to be very fast, take them by surprise and have good technique. The same goes for any other blocking and evading strategies. Training in self defence means you should be able to react intelligently to assault and have a better chance of survival. It does not mean you are likely to win a fight with a strong, determined assailant. That is why it is always better to do anything to avoid a physical confrontation, in which you are at a severe disadvantage. If you see it coming, you should avoid a fight.

Subject: BS: Women's Self Defense
From: Slag
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 03:29 AM

I'm trying to be true to my New Years' Resolution for Mudcat: to stay on topic and prevent thread drift. Therefore---.

There are many systems of self defense which are promoted or sold around the world and some unfortunately just invite problems. Here are a few sound ideas I have encountered that are probably the best in basics.

Be mentally prepared. Know your strengths and weakness before hand and behave accordingly. Very few women are proficient in hand-to-hand combat and those who are proficient still seek to avoid situations where it may become necessary.

The "Buddy System". Always go with one or more people if you can. The more the merrier and safer.

Park and walk in well lighted areas. Be aware of your surroundings. Check for lurkers. If you feel uneasy about a situation go find some trusted person to go with you. Call for an officier or call a cab even if you have to leave your car 'til later. Go with you gut feelings.

If you carry mace, pepper spray or some such, be sure you know how to use it and what to do after you use it. The latter usually involves running away and yelling "call 911" here in the US. If you are carrying keys, pick out the longest one and carry it protruding between your middle and ring finger of your strongest hand.

In descending order of value as a "soft target" go for the eyes, ears, throat, arch of the foot (stomp it hard), groin. Most creeps will be expecting the groin and will be prepared to defend that area.

No matter what happens NEVER let someone take you to another location. Nothing that's going to happen to you where you are is going to be as bad as what will happen if you allow someone to transport you. That's up to and including death. Always fight and always give it your all because you are fighting for your life. If a bad guy is going to kill you, make him kill you in public where they stand a better chance of getting caught. These guys who prey on women are cowards at heart and with usually take off if met with strong resistance.

Every situation is different and the dynamic variations can change your strategies for defense. If it is a domestic situation make sure someone knows the score, what is really going on with you. The more who know the better. Guys who bully their wives or girlfriends try to isolate them from family and friends so they can continue their torture tactics undisturbed. Find the courage to let someone know.

Take a self-defense class. Invite your friends also. Just think! Two or more ladies who are self-confident and able to inflict serious hurt on some creepazoid!!

I hope this post will generate some discussion and awareness. I know there are a lot of other good ideas out there. I didn't list all I know. God bless you lovely ladies and take care of yourselves. All good folk everywhere will benefit from the protection you afford.