BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse

Subject: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 11:57 PM

Having got into a somewhat silly spat with another Catter on another thread over nothing v much, the way we all do occasionally, & for which we have both since apologised, I so far forgot myself as to call him a 'pillock', largely because I thought he was being pompous so it was for the alliteration as much as anything else. Another poster took me to task for name-calling, which I admitted, though saying there are much worse names than that - quite a vanilla one, I thought it. But I offered, if it would make him happier, to emend it to "big girl's blouse", an euphemism for a foolish person which had some currency a few years back [did it go in the US also, or was it only over here?]

Looking back over my life, back to 1930s/40s, and remembering such denunciations of people's intelligence as 'twit', 'twerp', 'silly kipper' [a fave of my father's in my earliest childhood], it occurs to me that above-mentioned "big girl's blouse" must be the daftest of the lot.

Can anyone think of a sillier one?

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 12:28 AM

There are some meanings of pillock that my sainted and brilliant mother-in-law would feel uncomfortable about, so I'm sure she wouldn't have used the word. But one word she used all the time to describe an annoying person was "pill," as in, "Oh, she's such a pill!"
Rest her soul. She was one hell of a woman (and I've got a pretty good mother-in-law this time around, too - both were born in 1915).
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 12:45 AM

Was she aware, I wonder Joe, that 'pill' in that sense means 'testicle'!? Following your clicky, I find that Wiki gives 'wazzock' as another 'mild expletive' for a foolish person; which is a good one. But I still wait to see if anyone can come up with one more altogether absurd in every way than "big girl's blouse". Anyone any idea of its origin, btw? I have simultaneously asked Michael Quinion, but of course don't know if he will feel able to reply.

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Janie
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 12:55 AM

I had no idea of the origins "pill' until just this instance, curtesy of Joe's Wiki link. I am familiar with the the phrase "____is such a pill", but in these parts (southeast USA) it is generally used to indicate some one who is a spoilsport, ie too literal or staid or proper - without a sense of humor.

Never, ever before heard "big girl's blouse until opening this thread.

I swan, I learn something new everyday!

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: GUEST,escapee
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 01:24 AM

I'd thought a "pill" was difficult to deal with in the way that unpleasant medicine is." a bitter pill to swallow " Could a "big girl's blouse" button or zip up the back, in a most inconvenient way? Never heard the term 'til tonight.
I'm afraid I'm too impatient for playful euphemism so I tend to go quickly to direct and unflattering frontal attack. I paid my UAW dues, and I was entitled to direct (truthfully) unflattering attacks on my bosses.They were'nt clever or subtle and were usually anotomically impossible, but the bosses caught the drift that the hourlyworkers did not consider the supervisory or managerial levels quite fully human or competent to run the company

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 02:54 AM

In the same vein as "big girl's blouse", an implied threat from a third person could be dismissed as "he's nowt but a shirt button".

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 03:26 AM

Ya PRINGLE!!!! (Schoolkids insult, Glasgow, 1980s).

I think it says you're dorky enough to wear a Pringle sweater, though I suppose it might mean that in some way you resemble a Pringle crisp.

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 05:12 AM

A common insult in the environs of Liverpool is "dickhead".

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 05:18 AM

One I am rather fond of here in Ireland is when somebody is accused of 'acting the maggot'.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 05:53 AM

Mard arse: grumpy person.

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 06:03 AM

Plenty of examples concerned with clothing, indeed, for which thanx. but still none I feel to compare with that OP idiocy of mine, BGB. & still no-one with explanation of how it originated or even what it is supposed to mean. After all, what can whoever it was originated the phrase have actually meant by calling someone a Big Girl's Blouse. Not even clear to me whether it means a blouse big enuff to be worn by a big girl, or whether the actual insult is just the girl's-blouse bit, with the 'big' just an intensifier, as when one might call someone a Big Fool. Any theories as to that particular wrinkle?

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 06:36 AM

By all accounts it was one of Hylda Baker's catchphrases:

'Born on 4th February 1908 in Farnworth...Hylda Baker was very tiny at 4ft11inches but had tremendous energy and she worked her way up the entertainment ladder via the Music Halls, where she played a fast-talking gossip, aided by her gormless on-stage 'stooge' Cynthia (always played by a man). She developed a string of catch-phrases such as 'She knows, you know', "You big girl's blouse' and 'Be soon', and she became a master of the malapropism and double entendre – such as "I can say that without fear of contraception" and "You haven't had the pleasure of me yet".'
http://www.prideofmanchester.com/comedy/hyldabaker.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 06:45 AM

Thank you, Guest. Still don't know quite what she meant by it, but that certainly seems to be the origin. Wonder why it should suddenly have caught on about - what[?] - 10? - years ago,, when, judging by her d.o.b, it must have been ongoing for a while by then; or whether the 'big' is descriptive or intensificatory. But certainly a start — many thanks again.

Any other, equally daft, ones? In the Forest of Dean, where my wife cane from, btw, 'mard' means 'spoilt' [presumably = marred], so 'mard-arse' would mean spoilt brat.

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 06:59 AM

The Oxford English Dictionary also (indirectly) credits Hylda Baker with the earliest use of the phrase; it cites the script of the Granada TV programme Nearest and Dearest; Series 2, Episode 1, [July 8 1969].
Eli [Jimmy Jewel] 'Go round talking like that, you'll be hearing from our solicitor.'
Nellie [Hylda Baker] 'He is our solicitor, you big girl's blouse.'

Matthew

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Wyrd Sister
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 06:59 AM

Sorry, guest was me post-Secret-Santa-ing.

No, no idea what she meant, but it has been used throughout my lifetime. Her tone of voice said all that was needed.

'Mardy' in Yorkshire is used by children to children who cry easily, want things their own way, won't share or join in. "Mardy bum, Mardy bum, tell your mother to smack your bum" was our 1950s taunt. Presume mardyarse is just a cruder version taken up by adults.

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 07:50 AM

Many thanks still, Wyrd & Matt. So it goes back 40 years — but I had never heard it till it had its spasm of exposure in the mainstream slang of the time about 10 years ago - just so happens that wasn't one of the progs I watched. Wonder why — I always loved Jimmy Jewell [& Ben Warris!]. Did it never, in all that time, occur to any of you to wonder exactly WHAT she meant by it? To my [enquiring] mind, her tone of voice did precisely NOT say all that was needed — but then, I always think I must somehow be related to that Dickens character, Clennam in Little Dorrit, who 'wants to know, you know'.

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 08:08 AM

Well I've always assumed that the phrase represented a fine example of what I was taught in my English Grammar as a Figure of Speech 'Container for the Thing Contained' i.e. Nellie was calling Eli "a big tit!".

Matthew

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Acorn4
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 08:18 AM

The only thing that can get me to be verbally abusive is driving through London, so much so that I refuse to do it these days.

I remember calling some idiot in a 4 x 4 a "fat four eyed f***pig", which I was quite proud of as it came off the cuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 08:20 AM

Mardy is founf throughout the east Midlans/South Yorkshire. It relates to marred = spoilt, and is usually used to taunt people who complain if they don't get their own way. Most common phrases are Mardy Baby, and Mardy Bum.
    Peter and Iona Opie provide a map of its geographical provenance.

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 08:26 AM

One I have introduced the people in the East Midlands to, when someone is trying to impose his/her will on folk, without lawful or other authority, other than strength of personality :

Coming the "See you next Tuesday"

(C*NT).

I have posted previously that I abominate that word.

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: CET
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 09:02 AM

I remember my father using the phrase "thick as a bull's foot", which is more poetic than ridiculous. Is that a Welsh regionalism?

Another one, which I am pretty sure is peculiar to the Canadian Forces (and a bit out of date now - last year I heard a middle aged officer reminiscing about it) is "ya frggin' jabony". That too is probably poetic. My best source on such matters (Charmion) says it is a contraction of "Jesus bonehead".

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 11:40 AM

I have never encountered the term "mardy" before but mightn't it be derived from "merd" meaning "shit"? This would account for compounds like "mardy-bum". And I wonder if the term "smarty-pants" is derived from "mardy-pants"?

Another ridiculous term of abuse: one ex-Brit teacher in our junior high school would occasionally berate a pupil with "you silly pudding".

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 12:13 PM

I have always liked Goofball. It's a colorful term which can be used almost affectionately when referring to members of one's own family.

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 12:59 PM

Bryn, we hear "dickhead" out here in the west a lot, too.

My friend in WY has an expression I find myself using a lot, "Put my/your shirt in the dirt." Kind of means, something took you by surprise or impressed you or showed you up. As in my grandson so astounded me by what he said, as a six year old, he put my shirt in the dirt.

He also "beats to socks off me" when we play UNO and thinks it is hilarious!

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 01:01 PM

My mother used to refer to us boys as "Yayhoots" (never saw it in print...that just a phonetic rendering)

We always took the context to mean something like "tedious, irrepresible, but sort of tolerable because I don't have much choice"

as in, "Will you two yayhoots stop that noise and get IN here for dinner!"

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 01:32 PM

In the late 1960's and early 70's the word for someone who had done or said something dumb was "doofus."

When I lived in West Virginia in late 70's I heard the phrase "ignernt equals seven times ignorant" more than once.

My daughter used to call me "a goober", whenever I fell into a state of obtuseness about anything she was talking about.

There is always Homeresque and having a Doh moment.

I think this topic may border on folklore, so maybe deserves to be above the line?

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 01:47 PM

Not exactly a 'term' of abuse - just abuse applied with skill.
When I was an apprentice one of my mentors was a man just coming up to retirement, Jack Warrington.
He did his level best to make me a good tradesman, but at the time I was more interested in music than I was of being an electrician.
One day when I was proving particularly obtuse he turned to me and said thoughtfully, "You know, when you were born I think they must have thrown the wrong bit away"!
Treasured it always and used it often.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Wyrd Sister
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 05:19 PM

Oh Jim, that goes with 'you were behind the door when they/God handed out...'

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Tangledwood
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 05:36 PM

My Londoner father often called me a daft haipath (that's what it sounded like to me). It was only very recently I realised that was probably "halfpennies-worth". Of what I don't know.

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 05:51 PM

Mard arse insn't a grimpy person. Mard is soft (or nesh to go more native) so a mard arse is someone who whinges or moans at the least little discomfort.

A wassock is a bucket or pile of shit with a crust on.

So, shurrup yet great whinging wassock

:D (eG)

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 06:14 PM

"sodding" and "sod", as in "You stupid sodding bastard!" or "You bloody sod!". What the heck is that about? I always thought that sod was a layer of grass and earth for putting on a new lawn.

It seems to be a popular British term of abuse. Does anyone have an explanation? Or a derivation?

Then there's "tosser" which is downright hilarious to North American ears. I have been called a tosser by certain sodding old gits on this forum, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 06:20 PM

tosser seems equivalent to loser

sod and sodding derivation of sodomy or Sodomite.

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 06:31 PM

For boobs: sweater cows.

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 07:02 PM

"Yer all right you but yer shit stinks. Nothing personal." A fabulous insult once hurled at me at university in the 60s. Naturally I didn't deserve it.

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 07:07 PM

It's interesting that such sayings as "G'day, you old bastard!" or "He's been ill for weeks, the poor bastard" are actually terms of endearment in Oz.

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Leadfingers
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 07:14 PM

'He's all mouth and trousers' is a lovely self explanatory expression I rather like .

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: MarkS
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 07:21 PM

A sample from northeast US ethnic taunts, as in "you....."

Schmuck, schlemiel, for the Jewish guys
Garvone for the Italians
Kayoodle for the Eastern Europeans (I think)

And my Irish grandmothers favorite "Were you ahint the door when the Lord gave out brains?"

How did you taunt the other ethnics in your old hood?

Msrk

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Amos
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 07:27 PM

On the margin I am fed up with being asked "What's up"? when the enquirer means, instead, to say, "Hello". And I am also pretty tired of "Hey" as a substitute for "hello", and I am thoroughly overdone on being told "no problem" when the person means to say "you're welcome".

"'S up?

"Oh, hey. 'S up.

"Nothin'. You?

"Same ole..."

"Thanks fer asking anyway."

"Oh, no problem."

Gaaahhhhhhh!!!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 08:11 PM

Perhaps it's time to clear up a life-long mystery.
One of the common terms of abuse in the Liverpoolof my youth (including members of my family) was to call somebody a 'swine's melt'; does anybody know if this has any basis in animal husbandry?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 08:55 PM

Daft Ha'porth ( halfpenny worth) is affectionate, only used with friends and loved ones, the 'ha'porth' automatically reduces the effect of the 'daft'

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 10:16 PM

"you're welcome"

This is becoming a vanishing, almost obsolete phrase. The ONLY TV person I see use it regularly is David Schuster on MSNBC.

"No problem" or just a parroted return 'thank you' is about all you hear.... sad commentary on usage.

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 10:29 PM

Hey, Amos! 'S up? ;-)

I have a friend who always says, "Hey" when he means "hello" or "How are you?" He'd drive you nuts. He's on this forum, but I am sworn not to reveal his name. He even answers the phone, "Hey" when you call him. He once sent me an email.

It said: Hey

I replied: Hey what?

He replied: Just hey.

I said: Hey to you to.

And so on....

But when will texting reduce the word "Hey" to just "HY" to save time?

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 11:05 PM

From my angle a pillock would be a shmuck,
an effeminate smuck would be a shmendrick
a clumsy shmuck would be a schlemiel,
a slinger of string - shtik fleysh mit oygn

Which brings me to the etiology of my name which I try to live up to.
"Hak," or "huk," comes from a verb meaning "to knock." What's the connection? Imagine a boiling teakettle. The more it boils, the emptier it gets, and the louder and more annoyingly the lid bangs. The very popular phrase "Hak mir nisht ken tshaynik" literally means "Don't knock me a teakettle." Figuratively, translated it means "you don't have to shut up completely, but I'd really appreciate it if you'd stop rattling on about the same damned thing all the time."

Regarding Sarah Palin and her legions who are shtik fleysh mit oygn, cockinyam: I can see it from here.

In closing I would like to give a shout out to robo and family who are still stuck in a place that was easy to enter but hard to escape; ("a viste pgire af dir").

and if that weren;t enough Cohongo has been known to say You are uglier than a monkey's armpit.

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 11:17 PM

Chongo's been known to say a lot of strange things. He sometimes calls someone he doesn't like a "bindle stiff". That's an expression that was last popular in the 40s, I think, and it means that the guy is a total dissolute bum and ne'er-do-well. He calls a flashy dame with "round heels" a "proskirt" or a "chippy". He talks about "pearl divin' at the local hash house" which means "washing dishes at the local greasy spoon". He says "Drift!" which means "Get lost!" He's got a million of 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 01:23 AM

'Tosser', for your info, = 'wanker', which = masturbator — from English vulgarism 'to toss off', which means to masturbate to orgasm. Quite a cogent phrase, actually, when you come to think of it [no pun or double-entendre intended in that 'come', honest!]

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 01:28 AM

Yes, I know what it means...but it still sounds unintentionally hilarious to a North American. A North American cannot get upset if you call him a tosser. Trust me. He will simply be amused.

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 02:01 AM

... which surely demonstrates what a lot of tossers you lot over there are when it comes to appreciation of real abuse..

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 02:02 AM

... not to mention big girl's blouses...

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: Gurney
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 02:38 AM

I've always thought the American equivalent of 'tosser' is 'jerk.' I believe wazzock is a an Adze (adz'ook.) If you see one standing on its head, you'll see why.

'Nong' is the Kiwi/Aussie version of the same type of person.

Subject: RE: BS: Ridiculous terms of abuse
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 02:56 AM

Ah, yes, thanks Gurney. "Jerk off" is the US equivt of "toss off", isn't it? Both v good phrases, in fact & not the sort liable to lead to too much mutual incomprehension.