BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 09:14 PM

sound: under rug swept

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 10:18 PM

Down with the bed clothes
Up with the night shirt
Fiddle about, fiddle about...from Tommy

Makes you wonder, don't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: okthen
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 12:47 PM

LEJ, that quote from a who song refers to the abuse done to him as a child. I would like to say I think Pete Townsend naive but innocent and wish him the best of luck extricating himself from this mess.He's no saint but he's nearer than the sinner he's being made out to be.
Bottom line, I think he's one of the "good guys" and we don't have enough of them to squander.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST,(different one)
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 01:20 PM

The part in all this that just doesn't wash with me is WHY he paid to view what's there?

Isn't it enough to already KNOW or have a pretty good idea of what's already there? I just have a hard time with the "research" thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 01:28 PM

The "research" thing is obviously the only defense he can muster at the moment.

Do you remember a few months ago, when Wynona Ryder said that her "Director" had TOLD her to shoplift at the store as part of "researching a film role"?

Poor Peter. I doubt very much if he's a dangerous sort, and it's simply all over for him no matter what happens now.

Oddly enough, saw "Peewee's big adventure" a few days ago...and what an inventive little git he was.....but in his case it's REALLY all over. Same with Jeffrey Jones, a really funny quirky actor, who was in "Ed Wood", the film I started a thread about yesterday. Not sure what to think.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 01:42 PM

Hi okthen. My guess is that Pete is not a child porn connoisseur. I did find the Tommy lyric ironic in this instance. You imply the lines refer to Townsend's abuse as a child? Where did this information come from?

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: Kim C
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 01:51 PM

Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. But here's what I wonder: Pete Townshend is famous. At one point in history, the Who were in the public eye All the Time.

If he were truly a pedophile, don't you reckon we'd have known that by now? Seems like a pretty hard secret to keep for almost 40 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 03:05 PM

According to the 8.00 P.M. (London) news, Pete has now been arrested.

BJ

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 03:10 PM

I heard earlier there had been a plan for him to meet the police at his home, with his solicitor, this afternoon. Presumably, this is what resulted. I am guessing he surrendered himself?

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 03:15 PM

From BBC News:

Rock star Pete Townshend has been arrested by police following a search of his home after he admitted viewing images of child pornography on the internet.
He has been detained on suspicion of possessing and making indecent images of children and of incitement to distribute such images, said Scotland Yard.

The guitarist is in custody at a south-west London Police station.

The guitarist has admitted he gave his credit card details to see a child porn website, but insisted he had done so for research and was not a paedophile.

Police earlier spent over four hours searching the 57-year-old's home in Richmond, south-west London.

Consent

They arrived at the house at 1500 GMT and were accompanied by four detectives who interviewed him.

The operation was agreed by mutual consent said Mr Townshend's solicitor.

A Scotland Yard spokeswoman outside Mr Townshend's home said: "There will be a thorough and detailed search of the premises. It will take as long as necessary."

She said a search warrant had been obtained and computer forensics officers were among those attending.

Mr Townshend was driven away by police at about 1930 GMT.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: Kim C
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 03:17 PM

A couple of stories here:

Drudge Report

I guess my question now is ... what about people who really ARE doing research? At a business luncheon once, I met a woman who worked for US Customs, and internet child porn was one of the areas in which she worked. I mean, you can't bring the bad guys down until you know who they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST,Johnny
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 04:50 PM

I wouldn't say his arrest is necessarily the kiss of death for his career. Woody Allen has, despite marrying the child in question. Michael Jackson has. Paula Poundstone, while not enjoying her previous level of fame, has a full year of concerts booked this year.

I'd say, it all depends on whether he is actually charged, and what he might be charged with.

BTW, according to a Department of Justice study released Sept 10, 2001 (it was buried under the news of 9/11) on child sex abuse crimes, debunked several myths about it. There is an article on it at the CNN archive here:

http://www.cnn.com/2001/LAW/09/10/arena.child.abuse.otsc/

I can't vouch for the the validity of the study one way or the other. But one of the three main myths about child sex abuse is who does the abusing. The article states:

"...many think strangers are the main perpetrators in sexual abuse cases. The study revealed that less than 4 percent of all sexual assaults are committed by strangers. So, for the most part, the sex offenders are people the children know. Also, the study found most of the abusers are middle-aged married men with children of their own. "

Of course, it doesn't reveal what percentage qualifies as "most" either.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 05:00 PM

Remember, if you look at something on the internet, you have created an image of it. That's how the technology works, and that's how the law works

Strikes me there must be thousands of terrified men around trying to remember whether sometime they might have clicked in a credit card number to get a look at some dodgy sounding porn site, out of curiosity, because that apparently is all it would have taken to get on that list.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: JedMarum
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 05:15 PM

Poor Pete's in a world of hurt, seemingly of his own design. Sorry for him - but he's way over the line on this one (it seems). This ain't a case of accidentally clicking on an inappropriate image. From a news wire:

A Scotland Yard spokesman said: "He has been arrested under the Protection of Children Act 1978 on suspicion of possessing indecent images of children, suspicion of making indecent images of children and on suspicion of incitement to distribute indecent images of children."


If they are correct, Pete's silly stories about research are not going to hold water. He probably should have kept his mouth shut.

I am sorry for him, but not sympathetic.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 05:24 PM

Townsend didn't write "Fiddle About". John Entwistle did.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 05:34 PM

The point is, as I understand it, if someone views an image on a pC, that means that they possess a copy of that image, and that they have created that image.

I think that, in doing whatever was necessary to see that image - entering a creditcard number, or maybe authorising a charge on that credit card - they would also be open to the charge of "incitement to distribute".

So that is four very serious charges possibly arising from what could have been a single foolish action.

No need to rush to judgement.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST,Johnny
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 06:27 PM

The website in question (where Townsend says he used his credit card) is apparently a gateway to a child porn network of over 5,000 sites where child pornagraphy can be swapped on line. I'm guessing that is the reason for the distribution count.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: pict
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 08:48 AM

For those of you who are interested (and have the adobe acrobat reader program)this is something that Townshend wrote on the subject in January 2002.

http://www.thewho.org/020116adifferentbomb.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 09:08 AM

That is worth reading. And it reads as convincing - especially if that January 2002 date is real.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: okthen
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 09:36 AM

I echo that McGrath, I was impressed and went to the website to email a short message of support,(unsolicited).
I hope he comes out of this O.K.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 09:42 AM

A worthwhile article, and if the Jan 2002 date is falsified someone is a damned quick typist! To put something like that together since the news started, and keep a distinct prose style is quite an achievement.
I prefer to think it's genuine.
I also note that 7 out of 8 posts within a 3 hour time frame on the 12th were from 'Guest'. Should I even be posting to this thread ?

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST,ivan
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 10:09 AM

I understand from reports in the news that there are also judges, magistrates, & police officers under enquiry in this affair. People who we rely on to take care of society, to protect it. Are we going to have their names published? I hope & trust that Townshend is telling the truth. From Tommy I would think that he is. I admire him. That boy could rock.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 10:18 AM

New Harry Potter thread started with a 'Filk' of The Who
Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST,Johnny
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 03:27 PM

The only thing Townsend's article convinces me of, is that Townsend, intentionally or unintentionally, makes few to any moral distinctions about surfing the net to view pornography. Sometimes he distinguishes between types of pornography (hard/soft, adult/child), sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes he distinguishes between porn consumers and what he terms "vigilantes".   As I read through it, he seems to be making a case for these self-appointed "vigilantes" to visit pornography websites (which is the defense he is claiming in his own case), despite the illegality of those acts under current UK law.

I'm with his friend Elton John on this (who was asked about it at the American Music Awards). Based on the story Townsend has given to the press, the circumstances don't look good for Pete right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 03:36 PM

Whether circumstances look good or bad isn't the issue. Well, it is for Pete Towshend, but not for the rest of us.

In the same way, whether he's been wise or been foolish, or been legal or illegal in what he's done, those aren't the central issue.

On the basis of that article, assuming it hasn't been faked up retrospectively - and I think that is extremely unlikely - Pete Townshend comes across to me as OK.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST,Johnny
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 04:07 PM

He doesn't come across looking OK to me. He looks like someone who has admitted he is guilty of visiting child pornography sites.

There is nothing in the article that is consistent with the stories (some of which are conflicting) he has now given to the press. No mention of him "researching" child pornography for his memoirs. Nothing of the sort is mentioned, so I have no idea why people think this exonerates him for what he did. Townsend broke the law, and should receive the same treatment others received who have been convicted in the Operation Ore sting, who committed comparable crimes.

I don't think he should receive special treatment, just because he is a popular celebrity. Many others (1,300 so far) have been exposed, and of those who are public officials, their names have been made public as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 04:46 PM

Our generally unnamed Turnip Guest is at least using a name today! Thank you JR.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: Socorro
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 06:01 PM

In response to the person who considers Townsend "one of the good guys" - he may well be, in some things. I can't see that that has any relevance to the charges.
I think Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's words apply:

"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 08:02 PM

Bottomline: Mr. Pete Townsend squandered any respect he'd earned as a writer/performer of his times by "conciously & willingly" participating in the rank violation of the sanctity of the child. Case Closed!
Children are sacred and *No One* has *Any* right to contribute to their exploitation : neither for getting one's rocks off nor for filthy lucre.
Townsend's apparent degeneracy have reached critical mass and have now crossed the line and he has no one to blame but himself.
Till this news I readily derided the rank stupidity of the Who's master Bass guitarist ,John Entwhistle ,whom sudenly died of a heart attack just as the Who were about to embark on yet another
"unasked for" world tour. Final determination of cause of Entwhistle's herat attack; the dumb bastard decided he wanted one more hit of coke.
what a collasally moronoic waste. Now comes "ye aging pufter" Townsend indulging his willy "most priviledged " where his indulgences in "rough boys" just wasn't enough.
Trash is what trash does.
Time for Uncle Petey to get "professional treatment" and be done with it. Spare me the defense of an artist who has obviously demonstrated how sick he is.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 08:49 PM

Did you read that article of his, Taliesn, written, it would appear, a year before all this blew up? I think it suggests a rather different picture from that presented there.

"Obviously" just means "I have a strong opinion about this" - it just says something about the person using it. But because of the structure of lanuage it seems to be saying something about the person or situation under consideration.

Let's wait and see.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 09:12 PM

would you all be saying the same if it were michael jackson or eminem instead?

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: nutty
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 10:04 PM

Listening to a programme on the TV certain facts came to light ......

This investigation , into a single site identified approx 35,000 hits.

Of those 35,000 hits, 7,ooo approx were from people living in the British Isles.

As a result of the information passed to the police by the FBI, 40+ children have been identified and removed to places of safety.

Investigations are still ongoing into the activities of a high court judge , two former cabinet ministers and a deputy head teacher as well as numerous other "professional".

The police are prioritising the investigation by dealing first with those people who may pose a threat to children.

The FBI have revealed that their present investigation into another site is likely to produce similar results.


Whether or not Pete Townsend is guilty or just misguided, he had to be aware that he was breaking the law and that there were consequences to his actions. Every person entering those sites , for whatever reason, is responsible (in part) for a child being abused.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST,Chris, Baton Rouge
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 11:21 PM

IN DEFENCE OF THE BBC

The original post to this thread did not pick up the formatting in the source BBC page. The strange chronology & disjointed prose resulted from the clips under embedded photos being inserted into the adjacent text, out of context and repetitive. The similarly incongruent individual words like "Campaign" are the paragraph headings.

So I wonder at the veracity of the later post from Guest....."I had a look at the BBC News website it cited. Shockingly enough, the article here is cut and pasted verbatim, and the quality of reporting is as bad there as it looks here".....It just ain't so folks.

The BBC is usually a center of excellence, and is often the only source of reliable news in some parts of the world; we can't say the same for Radio Free Europe & our other mouthpieces.

So, BBC tried & convicted by the ill-informed. Townshend also ???

Chris, Baton Rouge

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 12:12 AM

Mr Townshend stated he was researching his childhood in case he had been molested or something ...

I should have thought that of all the things that happen one when a child, this is something one would not need to research much less forget.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: BusbitterfraeScotland
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 12:50 AM

If Townsend was reasearching a book about Child molesters and the like then why did he do it in secret and not have witnesses to say that's what he was doing.
As far as I'm konw that's Pete Townsend is a peodophile, until he can prove otherwise.
You might as well say these other peodphilles were also resarching a book.
Does he think that we're daft.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: okthen
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 05:02 AM

I'm sitting on my own at this computer typing a reply to mudcat, I'm not doing this in secret, I just don't have an audience.
As for Townsend proving otherwise, I thought it was "presumed innocent untill proven guilty" let's keep an open mind and see what the authorities decide.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 10:40 AM

In the article some here are claiming fully exonerates Townsend, he claims he did not come forward when he found child pornography "by accident" because of the climate surrounding the prosecution of (I am assuming) Gary Glitter, who Townsend said he worked with on some shows, and because his attorney advised him not to notify the authorities about the website.

Which means he admitted to "finding" child pornography more than once, which conflicts with his current claims. The other thing I find wholly bizarre about this case, is Townsend more or less demanding that the police come take his computer, in order to exonerate him.

Interesting twist, that.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 10:48 AM

(quote)
"would you all be saying the same if it were michael jackson or eminem instead? "

Absolutely and have done so.
Bottmline: Children "are" sacred. Case Closed.
Everything else is just rationaliztions and moral ambivalence just to see how far one's "indulgences" can be made somehow socially "palatable"; in a word "marketed".
How else could there "right to assembly" ever have been pushed far enough for a group as N.A.M.B.L.A. to ever be formed.

Degenrate is what degenerate does and does "nothing" to the advancement of cultural experience.
This is an isue even the so-called "Libertarians" can't deend with a straight face if a straight concience may be idiolocally incorrect.
Just calling a spade a spade

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 01:27 PM

From my count, Townsend has claimed to have viewed child pornography online numerous times, not just the one time he is currently claiming.

In the article cited above, he says he "accidently" stumbled across child pornography while looking for something else. In his news accounts (both his written statement to the press, and his press conference) he says that he first came across child pornography while surfing the web with his 16 year old son. He also has said in the past week, that he only went to the site he was presumably arrested for entering his credit card number into once, "for research" for his supposed autobiography he has been working on for seven years.

That tallies up to at least three times, in three different circumstances, two of which were not the offense he is purportedly being investigated for as part of Operation Ore.

At some point, one must say to ones' self, perhaps this is a bit too many "innocent coincidences" to be credible.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: JedMarum
Date: 07 May 03 - 02:17 PM

Looks like the police and prosecutors bought Pete's story. He's been cleared. I hope it's true, and I'm happy for him if it is.

I suspect if he was guilty of it there'd be more then this one instance, and more evidence, so sounds like Pete's OK.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: alanabit
Date: 07 May 03 - 03:43 PM

I want it to be true and I believe that it is true. When you bear in mind his brutal emotional honesty over the years, it is hard to distrust the guy.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 May 03 - 03:50 PM

yeah well he is also famous and wealthy....so chances are he would have been cleared anyways...I still think he's a pervert.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: JedMarum
Date: 07 May 03 - 07:54 PM

I just don;t think ya get to be 50 something and turn into a pervert, and I don;t think ya live to be 50 something and not have some sort of trail that prosecutors could find if you did have those "odd" habits. So hopefully Pete is OK, and was telling the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: alanabit
Date: 08 May 03 - 03:48 AM

And I still think you are a mean spirited, spiteful coward anonymous "guest".
Well said Jed.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST,mink
Date: 08 May 03 - 05:23 AM

Irrespective of whether he was visiting (and contributing money to) a child porn site for research - the truth is that he was looking at(and contributing money to) children being exploited. As a parent, I find that hard to justify. "Writing a book" is not some heroic crusade whose end justifies any means. The fact that he paid to view means that he cannot argue that his actions did no additional harm.
If I go and mug an old lady then can I use "research" as a defence? I doubt it.
He is clearly guilty of the offence, by his own admission. The important question is whether he is a paedophile & whether he will continue to feed that cess-pit. At the very least he is now a very suspect character - and rightly entered on the sex offenders list.
Generous spirited as we try to be - "innocent until proven guilty" is a risky approach to take with paedophilia.
Paedophilia is a horrible demon to wrestle with - and if Townsend does have that tendency then I wish him all the luck in the worl in conquering it.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 03 - 08:13 AM

He has admitted to the charges, as you point out guest mink, which means he is guilty, no? Obviously, his legal counsel was wise to advise him to admit to it, as he was caught red handed. Combine that with his money and celebrity, and it is easy to see that he has gotten away with something pretty bad, IMO.

It was a tremendous disappointment to see these charges against him be brought, as a decades long fan of the Who. But I'm a fan of Townsend no more. I could care less about what people do with their sex lives. But child porn is whole different thing altogether, IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 May 03 - 04:21 AM

Guest:
He has admitted to accessing the site, and that is what has caused his name to be placed on a list of 'sex offenders' (Read the whole story linked at 7 May 2:17) but his only accepted fault was accessing that list.
He claims he was using it for research to be able to speak out against child pornography, and I, for one, believe him.
If merely accessing the site is sufficient to be considered a sex offender, presumably everyone who spoke against him should be on the same list, unless they are going on hearsay about the contents of the site.
By the same criterion, the BBFC (British Board of Film Censors) sit through films to decide whether they are suited to the public. The fact that they list films as unsuitable does not prevent those who seriously wish to view them from gaining access to them, nor does it prevent studies being made of them. It merely reduces 'public access' to the films.
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 May 03 - 06:57 AM

Combine that with his money and celebrity, and it is easy to see that he has gotten away with something pretty bad, IMO.

I'm sure Garry Glitter and Jonathan King (and possibly others) would tell you that is not the case. I'm pretty well convinced that if Townsend had not been telling the truth, the police would have evidence to support that and would have prosecuted.

formatting fixed by Mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 May 03 - 08:31 AM

Townsend told the truth. He paid to view child pornography. Research, my ass.

Paying to view child pornography is not the moral equivalent of paying to view adult pornography. Not by a long shot. Does it make him a sex offender? Certainly not in the sense of luring and engaging children in sex acts. Is there a correlation between those who pay to view child pornography and those who commit sexual crimes against children? Yes.

It matters not one iota to me what Townsend claims his motives were. They weren't legitimate. He is not above the law. And the circumstances surrounding his case, including all the celebrity testimonials from friends and co-workers he has had his publicity machine churn out, hasn't impressed me a bit.

I wouldn't let the guy anywhere near MY kids, that is for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Pete Townshend a Child Fondler?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 May 03 - 08:38 AM

BTW, even if Townsend's offense was more stupidity than true interest in child pornography, he still should be held every bit as accountable as anyone else for his mistakes. Being a well-liked celebrity is not an exemption from accountability for one's despicable actions and poor decisions.

He paid to put himself on the sex offenders list when he typed in his credit card number, as far as I'm concerned.