BS: When did 'forbid' become 'forfend'?

Subject: RE: BS: When did 'forbid' become 'forfend'?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 02:31 AM

The fact is, Ah've nae had ma lugs rung in ower a year. Tae ca' me a nyaff an' a glaikit gowk is nae way tae speak tae a braw laddie wha wis at the Battle o' Bannockburn hisel, an' Stirling Bridge too. Ye shuid be ashamed tae sae sich things. As fer ma bahookie, dinna mess wi' that!

Subject: RE: BS: When did 'forbid' become 'forfend'?
From: Megan L
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 04:24 AM

ROFL Aye lad ye may be bonny and ye may be bricht but even Giok McKenzie is no that auld

Subject: RE: BS: When did 'forbid' become 'forfend'?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 04:51 AM

OH YES HE IS....................(well, it's the panto season, isn't it?) :-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: When did 'forbid' become 'forfend'?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 05:00 AM

We have had numerous postings showing that 'for' or 'fore' mean 'to the front'. In American usage, surely the fact that cars do not have 'bumpers' then they have a 'forefender' and a 'rearfender'.
These (as they might say in the Southern states) are De fenders!

'Fore' is also a very useful word for getting a lot of meaning into a single word, it means 'I've just hit a golf ball and anyone in front of me (to the fore) should be alert'

Lovely language this, innit?

Subject: RE: BS: When did 'forbid' become 'forfend'?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 12:45 PM

English has at least three fors.

1. the preposition, as in 'This is for you.' My dictionary has a column and a half of definitions for this supposedly simple word.

2. The prefix fore-, which Nigel is talking about. It usually means ahead of, or in front of.

3. The prefix for-, which only cultivated and suave speakers such as Mudcatters are aware of. It is rather archaic. For- tends to ascribe something bad to the verb. It is prohibited or overdone. For example, consider the difference between 'bid' and 'forbid.'

It is akin to the German prefix, 'ver-,' which means about the same thing.

==========
Trouble is, the -fend part of forfend doesn't make much sense. To forfend is to avert or prevent, which is why my mother would exclaim 'Saints forfend!' How that meaning came about, I do not know.

Nigel, I agree with you that English is a lovely language.

Subject: RE: BS: When did 'forbid' become 'forfend'?
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 07:11 PM

Is the drink you have before having a beer a forebitter?

Subject: RE: BS: When did 'forbid' become 'forfend'?
From: kendall
Date: 27 Dec 08 - 09:12 AM

The first time I ever heard that expression was Joan Sprung in the mid 70s.

I have always been a fan of Bill Shakespere, and at one point in my checkered youth I was going to write a biography of him, but, as he once said, "And enterprises of great pith and moment become sicklyed over with the pale cast of thought, and lose the name of action."

Subject: RE: BS: When did 'forbid' become 'forfend'?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 27 Dec 08 - 01:34 PM

Yes, Art. A precursor to a beer is a forebitter. However, when the Prince of Denmark tried to institute prohibition, he forbittered the pubs. See the difference?

Subject: RE: BS: When did 'forbid' become 'forfend'?
From: Gurney
Date: 27 Dec 08 - 08:55 PM

Leeneia, I've always supposed, without a shadow of evidence, that the -fend part is from the same root as the fend in nautical terms, as 'to fend off,' physically prevent from colliding, or 'to fend for yourself.'