Hull Shanty Festival 2012

Subject: Hull Shanty Festival 2012 statement
From: ossonflags
Date: 19 Apr 12 - 04:52 PM

Hya everyone, in view of the countless requests and concerns and the need to set the record straight, we are now in a position to publish this document fo public consumption:

STATEMENT REGARDING HULL SHANTY FESTIVAL.

Background . . . . . .

The last "Sea Fever" festival (Number 21) was held in July2010. The City Council Events Team subsequently decided to "pull the plug" on "Sea Fever" due to financial constraints.
A group of Pub licensees led by Pete Smith of "Ruscadors" formed a group in 2011 to keep a maritime event alive in the Marina / Fruit Market / Queen Street area of the City. They invited Mick and myself to participate and organise the shanty singing.
At the start of this small but successful "Hull Shanty Festival", held in July last year, the Leader of the Council (Steve Brady) gave an interview in the free paper. In this interview he promised to restore the event to its' former status. At a meeting earlier this year he promised Hull Shanty Festival an increased budget which would have enabled us to produce a much enhanced event for 2012.

What's happened . . . . .

This all turned to ashes in our mouths when we were subsequently told that the budget would have to be shared with a company who wished to run a "Hull Folk Festival" but had no money. The City wanted to do this in conjunction with the maritime event. The H.S.F committee were very disappointed at this news but nevertheless resolved to see if this scheme was in any way viable.

Both Mick and myself are well aware that in these difficult economic times, economies have to be made and the City has to ensure maximum value for every pound spent. We therefore met the third party along with Pete Smith, (chairman of "Hull Shanty Festival") to see if there was any possibility of productive co-operation to produce a joint Maritime / Folk event. The agreed outcome the meeting was that co-operation might be possible in principle, but only if further money was available. Both parties were agreed that whilst synergies could be found in the provision of festival infrastructure, the existing budget promised to HSF was insufficient to fund a credible artiste line-up for a double-focus event.
This joint position was communicated to City by the Third Party.

We (Pete & Mick) then spent some considerable time in debate and research because, as a result of the joint meeting we had our own doubts as to the viability of the "Folk Festival" plan and also the likelihood of the third party being able to deliver it.

The City then came back with a negative response on increased funding and also making even the existing funding conditional on a "Joint event".

Regretfully our conclusion was that - in our view and experience - the proposal was not viable on a "half budget" and would only result in a dilution of what the Council were trying to achieve.
This was communicated to the City Events team on 31st March and we have had no response

I am sorry that it has come to this but we have regretfully withdrawn our support for and association with the event.
We know that we could have produced a good Maritime Festival but giving half the budget to an unknown and untried enterprise was really the last straw.

Regards and best wishes.


Pete Hayselden & Mick McGarry

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 19 Apr 12 - 06:14 PM

Thanks for the heads-up guys. Can't really see what else you could have done.
cheers
Paul

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: ossonflags
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 05:31 AM

Thanks Paul.

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 08:36 AM

This is galling to say the least Mick. Especially since the profile of folk music within Hull has dissipated since the demise of the established clubs witihn the city and relies on sessions etc of which you and other friends are founder members-so apart from a recent revival at Pave, I can only think that the other party is an interloper with an eye on the dosh. I certainly have not been approached as organiser of cottingham Live for any feedback or input into a likely folk event-and we have over 25 years experience within the club of running folk music events in the area.

I think it has been hijacked, and it leaves a bad taste in the mouth.One is tempted say let's do another People's festival but it would almost certainly be Hull CC who would be bathing in the reflective glory. Its a poor show for both yours and Pete's efforts over the years. Will be interesting to see how many are attracted to a folk festival which presumably will work to the disadvantage of Beverley Folk Festival-probably not as many as the shanty festival! Anyway we are here if you need us!

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 08:48 AM

Sad to see another one bite the dust. However, I think that you right Mick to walk away rather than be linked to something that wasn't what you wanted it to be.

Rog

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 10:11 AM

So who is it that's screwed it up...??? Surely we would know said third party? Interested observer.

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 11:33 AM

Certainly sounds like someone trying to hijack the cash from a non-profit event.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Willa
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 11:39 AM

Thanks for the update, Mick.
I agree entirely with what Linda and others have said. I know that you and Pete put in a lot of work last year and will have done much of it again this year.

It's a sad loss!

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 02:13 PM

I was at one of the meetings with Pete H when Brady promised to back the Shanty festival and was talking in glowing terms of increasing the budget and how it would be great to get back to something like the original format. All of the other council people there were nodding and giving approval to all this and our suggestions re inviting some of the boats back and even providing something towards the boat expenses. What a shambles! All of this should have been done and dusted 8 months ago. Needless to say I'm withdrawing my offer of help and sticking with Mick and Pete.

However, I don't see why we shouldn't still run a low budget local event in the Maritime Museum and Ferens Art gallery like last year, with the help of Yorkshire Garland.

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 02:21 PM

Thanks for the update Mick, and for the record I too totally agree with Linda's heartfelt sentiments.
What a kick in the teeth for you Mick and Pete. And after all you've given to the city over these difficult years too. It's disgusting to treat you this way to put it mildly. Words fail me.
My support and loyalty lie with you, comrades.
MM

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Barb'ry
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 02:26 PM

We're gutted for you as well - you have all worked so hard and last year's event was such a great success.

Hope you might be able to run something again another year (with or without the council).

Take care
Barbara and Nine Tenths

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 03:41 PM

I'm with Steve on this. The weird thing here is that we had a great festival last year without the HCC. Okay so they came in and gave some cash when it was already a done deal. The fact was and is, we don't actually need them.

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,linda Kelly
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 04:34 PM

How great it would be to do a concert in the maritime museum...we are sticking with Mick and Pete!

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,old git
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 06:35 PM

I'd just like to endorse all the above comments! Let me know if i can help in any way!
geoff t

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Snuffy
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 06:42 PM

In full agreement with the sentiments everyone here has expressed.

And you, to whom adversity has dealt the final blow
With smiling bastards lying to you everywhere you go
Turn to, and put out all your strength of arm and heart and brain
And like the Mary Ellen Carter, rise again.

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: SussexCarole
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 07:01 PM

Sorry to hear this news

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: stallion
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 07:04 PM

So long as Ron is in the country at the time I am sure we would be in, gratis, I agree wholeheartedly with your stance, sounds like another Simon Boak and Pickering Folk festival.

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 08:04 AM

'Rise again' indeed. I'm with Linda (and actually all of you). Maritime Museum as a venue was an unrecognised gem accoustically and I guess we've still got a window in our diaries?
In the most economical sense, what is actually required nuts and bolts wise? Funds/donations/banners? plus ........ ? sponsorship, accommodation, boats? PA, goodwill, sunshine!
Regards, Hazel.

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,Kevin Young
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 08:11 AM

The feedback from the public that come to Lyrics each week show a lack of faith in HCC, this will really sicken them. Like all above we are in total support of Pete, Mick and the rest of the team. Hopefully they will pull something out of the bag and we can can get on and enjoy the music and songs.

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Pistachio
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 08:23 AM

OOps, that's me 2 above ( tho I know you'll have worked it out!)

Hx

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 11:39 AM

I can understand how frustrating it must be for enthusiatic and gifted devotees of minority interests to deal with politicians of any colour and at any level and sympathise with them fully.

So, if you were able to run a successful event last year without the help of the (perceived) great and good why not do the same this year?

People obviously enjoyed it so why deprive them of that enjoyment?

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Les from Hull
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 11:57 AM

Actually Hull City Council did help financially last year, but also added certain official pressures like First Aid and security. Well we all know how violent these shanty festivals can be!

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 01:02 PM

Has this mr brady had any further communications with pete and mick, maybe he could at least let you know who the third party where.

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 05:00 PM

They know who the 3rd party is and he hasn't a clue. Mick has spoken to him and he couldn't even name one folk artist. As Mick said earlier they sent a letter to the council and there has been no response, which doesn't surprise me.

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 03:55 PM

The term 'backhander' was a well-worn one back in the fishing days.

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 05:23 AM

So, you're suggesting a traditional slant to the proceedings Steve?
Is anyone banging on a door in the council offices re the rudeness of no reply?

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,Guest pro event
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 01:59 PM

We now have two Guest, guests.

I am the one who suggested that it seemed sensible / possible to go forward without the backing of the council.

As there has been no response from the leading lights is it that this is not possible or acceptable?

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Johnjo
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 06:39 PM

Such a shame, but is it still possible to run something in the Minerva and Ruscadors and ignore the council altogether? Even if it's just a singaround in 1 room, a session in another, and solo spots on a stage in another, with, maybe, a Morris team outside? Split between 2 pubs?

Is it definite that Cllr Brady is aware of the nonsense that's gone on? Could someone in a council office be sitting on letters/emails, in the hope that the 'big boss' doean't get to hear that they've cocked-up? Wouldn't be the first time....

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: stallion
Date: 25 Apr 12 - 09:20 AM

OMG, we are living in a sty and anyone who points fingers at FiFA for corruption need to look in their backyard, not that IO am saying that this is due to corruption although it has been my experience that local authority is riddled with corruption, particularly "strategic partnerships" a device that allows the allocation of contracts without competitive tendering. One company was given a contract, which we had priced for, they did not have the expertise to do it, so they then asked us if we could do it for them at the same price we quoted the council, now what the hell is that about? Well we asked the council and they said this company was a "Strategic Partner" and so they were awarded the contract and the other quotes not considered. This situation, if I read it right, is some numpty with no prior knowledge of the folk scene sees a salary opportunity paid for by the council and has used some muscle to get in on the action. Well name them here! I haven't heard anything so ridiculous.

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: stallion
Date: 25 Apr 12 - 10:09 AM

I think a heads up ought to go out to the agents that they may have another Pickering Folk Festival on their hands and insist on fees upfront for any artists booked.

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Les from Hull
Date: 26 Apr 12 - 08:42 AM

I don't know that anyone is really suggesting corruption. In my opinion (and I worked for this Council for 36 years) the main problems are ignorance and unwillingness to take risks.
In this particular case the Council seems unwilling to use the expertise built up over many years particularly Pete's (Shanty Jack) who booked the artists for the equivalent event for over 20 years. And folk festivals up and down the country are almost always organised by folk enthusiasts who know what folkies want and give immense amounts of time for nothing. I personally would be very wary of any festival run by 'businessmen' as there's not usually enough money available to provide a reasonable profit. That's why we have to rely on sponsorship. Last year we were happy to go ahead with a festival sponsored by local busineses and organisations relying on good connections built up over the years and many friends giving up their services for free or expenses only. The Council's late offer of sponsorship was very welcome but in no way vital. I know that Pete and Mick have spent plenty of time and money arranging this year's festival and it seems very wrong to be moving the goalposts at the eleventh hour (lovely mixed metaphor there to lighten the mood)
I was often told that the Hull event was considered the best in the country and I know it attracted enthusiasts from far away. It seems such a retrograde step to change a winning formula for change's sake.

Last year

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Les from Hull
Date: 26 Apr 12 - 09:07 AM

I should also have pointed out that I understand that the desire to have a joint folk/maritime event probably hinges on the desire to save costs on policing, street closures and such. Last year I was chatting to a couple of off-duty coppers outside the Minerva who were pleased to hear that we were having a Shanty Festival. 'There's never any trouble at that' they said. 'But that Freedom Festival attracts pickpockets from 50 miles away.'

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: mally
Date: 26 Apr 12 - 12:51 PM

I agree Les. Last year all I saw in way of police was 2 PCSOs with nothing better to do than stand and watch the performers at the back of Ruscadors

      Mally

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,Linda Kelly
Date: 26 Apr 12 - 05:27 PM

I agree Les -it isnt a question of corruption but naivety.

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,ian268
Date: 26 Apr 12 - 09:01 PM

The council are making a mistake - The Shanty has been established for years by people who know how to run it. Audiences come from far and wide to support it and spend money in the area. Why can't they just let it be. Hull's heritage as a seaport deserves to have one. I heard Brady on radio recently blabbing about getting people in to the old town - and he would see to it. Nice start Stephen.

Anyway you could still do one in Minerva and Ruscadors - I'm sure they would support you with a little budget - and keep it free entry -enough people would turn up on what surely would be a busy weekend - like 2011. Good luck Pete and Mick, Les. But you should try it without council help. Just see what happens.

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Jane of 'ull
Date: 25 May 12 - 06:12 PM

Any update on this? It was really great last year despite the council pulling the money. I'd hate to see it suffer, it's such an important part of our local heritage.

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 26 May 12 - 11:01 AM

I've not heard any more. With the council promising to back it and then pulling it at the last minute it doesn't give us much chance to organise something else.

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: mally
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 08:00 AM

I have just contacted HCC events team and at last they have dates for this.It will be called Hull folk and maritime festival and the dates are.Aug.17th 18th and19th.No website yet but they are getting round to it.Thats a lot of help init?


         Mally

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 10:23 AM

No help whatsoever. How short-sighted...
Never mind - even if it does happen, those dates will be no good to most of us, especially at this short notice. I'm already away that weekend and I suspect many others will be off to Whitby.
I despair...
When will they ever learn? (I feel a song comin' on...)

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Jane of 'ull
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 11:08 AM

I've also spoken to HCC events team and they told me more or less the same as Mally. The main day is to be Sat 18th August, with events on at participating pubs etc on the Friday night and Sunday.

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Les from Hull
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 07:43 PM

First weekend of Whitby Folk Week! Well that shows how much they know about folk music. Pure brilliance!

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: stallion
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 02:41 AM

Has Simon Boak got anything to do with this?

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,old git
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 08:56 AM

The Roaring Forties will be at Whitby.
Just exactly who is running this? Won't somebody please name names!!
geoff t

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,Blowzabella sans cookie
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 12:37 PM

This is beginning to sound very like what happened at Lancaster - after having a very successful festival for years - popular and with integrity - they dropped it, then along came someone else - a music promoter - who thought that simply by booking a few maritime singers, he would tap into the crowd who had previously attended. He did no liaison with the pubs, no marketing to the folk audience and the performers found themselves in venues where the clientele were primarily simply there for a night out - no to listen to sea songs or shanties. In one case, I know the artist never got paid, because it was unclear whether their contract was with the festival promoter or the pub - and in another (the Maritime Museum) all performances had to be pulled at very short notice because neither the festival or the museum had considered the need for a TEN.

The organisers of the old Lancaster Maritime Festival very much wanted to disassociate themselves with this 'shadow' of what had been a great event, and I suspect that Shanty Jack feels much the same about Hull. Sometimes it's best to let things go, rather than have them become sad shadows of what had been great events

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Carol
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 02:37 PM

I don't believe it

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,old git
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 02:40 PM

Spot on Blowz!

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,Blowzabella sans cookie
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 04:04 PM

Just to clarify - I don't mean for an instant that Shanty jack wouldn't have fought with all his heart to keep the event going - even in a lessened form - as long as he felt it still had 'heart' and 'integrity'. But I don't think that he would have been prepared to continue to try and keep himself involved once he felt that it was being pulled in a very different direction - the shanty element would soon become subsumed and Pete loves the music too much to let that happen and continue to be associated with it.

Sometimes, the last bit of control you have in such a situation is to take yourself away from it

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 07:21 PM

It is only tonight that I have become aware of this thread and the upsetting news about the shanty festival. What a shame. Choosing the same dates as the Whitby Folk Week does not suggest that those responsible have a great deal of insight into what they are dealing with. If an alternative shanty festival is a possibility I am willing to help. ( but not during Whitby Folk Week, obviously)

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: stallion
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 08:58 AM

We can't do August cos Martin is in Mystery plays and Ron and I are Hols. (Kids and Grand kids) but september could be good for alternate do.
Peter

Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: mally
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 10:41 AM

I think this thing in the pubs is some kind of afterthought to keep the people who have supported this all these years happy and it's cost them nowt.I don't even believe the've even approached the pubs.I'd like to know otherwise. They don't really have a clue do they?

         Mally