BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'

Subject: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 02:13 PM

Yep, I know this is going to be hard to believe but Secretary of State, Colin Powell, just last night picked up his phone to call Mario's to have a pizza delivered and when he picked up the phone he heard twp Iraqi's talking with one another about tricking the inspectors. Yep, what are the changes?

Well, I'm wonderin' myself why someone with that position wouldn't have the dough to buy real phone serivce. You know, like with no party lines. But that Powell is one wacky dude.

So according to Powell, he is going to take this information to the United Nations as "Exhibit A" to try to get a resolution to invade Iraq.

Well, danged, I reckon now Iz convinced! I mean like every Iraqi is talkin' 'bout how they faked out the inspectors aznd if there's one thing that bugs me, its a bunch of gossipers. Heck, that's grounds for war right there, as far as I can see. Bunch of danged gossipin' Iraqis. I mean, why even wait for the UN.

Nuke 'em...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 02:16 PM

This is a joke, right?!

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 02:38 PM

Well, Kat, according to the Washington Times, the ultra Republican newsrag, the US has tape of a conversation between two Iraqi *officials* bragging about how the inspectors missed this and that. You'll be hearing more of this later tonight on the news, I'm sure.

Ahhh, as fir the nukes and the gossip. Heck, you know I ain't into hurtin' nuthin'.

As fir the gissip, I heard from neighbor who knows this feller who has it one some purdy danged reliable source that CarolC and Jack the Sailor are foolin' 'round. And ya' know, my buddy over at the hardware says that GUEST and Teribus are the same person. Tsk, can you beeeelieeeve taht? And my wife's hairdresser says mthat Amos....

Oh, better not go there...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 02:48 PM

The very same Washington Times newspaper that is owned by the Moonie cult, whose stated purpose is the destruction of the US in order to make way for the new Messiah, the Reverand Moon, who will be the "father" of the new human family? Was it that Washington Times newspaper you read it in, Bobert?

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 02:52 PM

WASHINGTON/ AP - Photographs of mobile biological weapons installations and transcripts of overheard conversations among Iraqi officials are part of the evidence Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) will present to convince allies that Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) is defying the United Nations (news - web sites), an administration official said Monday.

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 02:57 PM

Yup. But Moon and the Republicans must be on the same page because everything Bush does... they praise. And you know what they did to Clinton. Heck, Clinton could have stumbles on a cure for AIDS and they wouldn't have said anything about it. On the other hand, the aliens could have invaded the Earth but the headlines would read "Clinton did this" or "Clinton did that".

The only reason I look at it is to see what the real *looney-tune righties* are up to.

Hey, they *do* get the sports scores right! Ahhh, make that correct.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 03:10 PM

Yeah. So I guess if their stated goal is the destruction of the US, and if they consistently agree with everything the Republicans
do, I guess that must mean that the Moonies think that the kinds of things the Republicans have been and are doing, will help to bring about the destruction of the US.

Hmmmmm...

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 03:17 PM

Hmmmmmmm, too...

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: gnu
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 03:20 PM

So, the Washington Times is a "rag" ? Thanks CC. Good to know.

On a more reliable note, 16 February is a full moon. Lock and load. Or duck and cover, as the case may be.

Kinda funny, and not HaHa funny, that President's day is 17 February.

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: beadie
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 03:30 PM

Funny thing about guns . . . . . . they rarely smoke unless someone has pulled the trigger recently.

It seems that the "smoking gun" metaphor is particularly inapt for this set of circumstances. Perhaps looking for a gunbarrel with powder residue from a long-past firing would be a more appropriate way to paint the picture. But then, again, we all knew that Hussein did all those evil things way back when.

The only value to creating the image of an immediate threat is to justify a war that is, in the Administration's view, a necessary precondition to re-establishing a formal western (spell that: US) presence in the Middle East (other than Israel) for any of a number of purposes; strategic advantage, oil, political stability, oil, revenge, oil.

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 05:25 PM

Hey, the U.S. knows, that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction. After all, we have the receipts!

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 05:27 PM

That is to say,
The U.S. knows that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction. After all, we have the receipts!

Aloha,
Mark
master of comedic timing

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Barry Finn
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 08:12 PM

C. Powell is making Crow tonight for dinner stuffed & with all the trimmings. He's inviting most of the leaders of Europe over but all declined replying that he should invite Busk over, that they don't have the appetite for it & besides feathers hanging from the mouth is all the rage at the White House tonight. Thanks, Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 08:16 PM

Okay, Barry, I asked on another thread what you meant. I hadn't heard of the dinner party. If I had, I'd have sent a good recipe for crow. I've had a share of it in my day. Ain't too bad but I gotta agree with ya' that the feathers are hard to get down...

So what's the rest of the story?...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Frankham
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 08:27 PM

"WASHINGTON/ AP - Photographs of mobile biological weapons installations and transcripts of overheard conversations among Iraqi officials are part of the evidence Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) will present to convince allies that Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) is defying the United Nations (news - web sites), an administration official said Monday. "

Does anyone remember the news item that drew quite a controversy about Iraqi soldiers throwing babies out of respirators in hospitals? Turns out that was a manufactured bit of propaganda that hit the media. Later, turned out that it was made up.

To paraphrase Tom Lehrer in his comment on the internet that might be applied to certain newspapers: Those that bother to read those newspapers deserve all the misinformation they get. (that is of course if they believe it).

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: TIA
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 08:27 PM

"...if I can't find a reindeer, I'll make one instead!"

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Alice
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 08:39 PM

The Washington Times, United Press International, Insight Magazine are some of many, many front groups for "father" Moon and the Moonies. The long list of front groups can be found at this link. It is a deliberate practice of Moon to set up nice sounding organizations and get celebrities to speak at their gathings (George Bush senior and Barbara Bush among others).
http://www.freedomofmind.com/groups/moonies/moonies.htm

----------


Moonies use Washington Times as
                                                                Front Group to Gain
                                                               Power and Legitimacy

                                    On Tuesday, May 21st 2002, controversial religious figurehead, alleged cult leader and
                                    self-proclaimed Messiah Sun Myung Moon, is to sponsoring a banquet celebrating the newspaper's
                                    20th anniversary. A substantial list of host Senators, Representatives and other politicians think they
                                    are supporting just a conservative newspaper, but are unwittingly endorsing the Moon agenda. Mr.
                                    Moon has used the newspaper along with U.P.I. to develop his power base for his ambitions–to
                                    establish and "automatic theocracy" in which he runs the world. Despite a politically conservative
                                    pro-family slant, the Times has also been the paper of choice for several Christian groups who are
                                    apparently unaware of Moon's true theology.

                                    "The public thinks that the Moonies have gone away. They haven't. They have been quite busy in
                                    recent years, focusing their recruitment efforts to politicians, business people and even Christian
                                    clergy," says Steven Hassan, former Moonie, author, licensed counselor and mind control expert.
                                    "They are still deceptive and quite dangerous," Hassan says, "Back in 1974-1976, Moon talked
                                    about setting up a global infrastructure so that when the world economy faltered, we would be there
                                    to feed people and give them jobs."

                                    Moon's stated ambitions include the establishment of a one-world government run as an automatic
                                    theocracy by Moon and his leaders. "Bush's faith-based initiative seems to be ideal to help them in
                                    their quest for a one world theocratic government," Hassan says, "I am sure President Bush is not
                                    aware that Moon has repeatedly said that America (and democracy) is Satanic." Moon's vision of the
                                    Kingdom of Heaven on Earth includes the absorption of all the world religions into Unificationism as
                                    well as the abolishment of all languages except Korean. Core Moonie members do a ritual pledge
                                    service every Sunday morning, bowing before an altar with Moon's picture on it and promising to
                                    fight for the Fatherland (Korea).

                                    Moon is an 82-year old Korean billionaire and convicted felon who served 13 months in federal
                                    prison for income tax evasion and conspiracy in the mid-1980s. Moon owns the Washington Times
                                    newspaper, U.P.I., Insight magazine, The University of Bridgeport (CT) and The New Yorker Hotel.
                                    His empire was part of a 1977-78 congressional investigation which looked at Korean CIA activities in
                                    the United States (list of front groups and report is on Freedomofmind.com).

                                    Tens of thousands of families have suffered because of the deceptive, mind control practices of the
                                    Moon organization. Members are told their parents are Satanic and are kept, sometimes for years,
                                    from visiting their families. While the Moonies have only several thousand dedicated American
                                    members now, there are an estimated 70,000 former members in the United States alone. Many of
                                    these people are still suffering from their involvement with the cult. The Moonies are actively
                                    recruiting in Africa, South America, China and the former Communist countries and have an
                                    estimated 100,000 members worldwide.

                                    While Moon professes upholding high family values to others, he is a hypocrite with major family
                                    problems of his own. His "blessed" eldest son, Hyo Jin (by second wife) are long divorced. According
                                    to ex-wife Nansook Hong's book, "In the Shadow of the Moons," Hyo Jin was physically violent,
                                    emotionally abusive, had a cocaine problem and has been arrested several times. In 1999, Moon's
                                    son, Youngjin P. Moon, then 21, committed suicide by jumping out of a Reno hotel window.

                                    Sun Myung Moon and his wife are considered to be "sinless" and are called the "True Parents" of
                                    humankind. He claims to be the new Christ and is fulfilling what Jesus failed to accomplish. In fact,
                                    Moon believes that until he married Jesus to a Korean church member, Jesus was unable to enter
                                    "Heaven". "I am certain that people are not aware of the real theology of Moon, says Hassan. "What
                                    people have to understand is that destructive cults use deception. Back in 1974, I was told that The
                                    One World Crusade, was "not religious at all." As a Jew, I would never have agreed to be involved if
                                    I had known what the group was really about.

                                    Throughout its history, the Moon organization has been involved with many questionable activities.
                                    The 1977-78 congressional investigation into KCIA activities in the United States stated it had found
                                    evidence that the group had systematically violated numerous federal and state laws. Moon
                                    eventually was convicted and spent thirteen months in jail for conspiracy to evade taxes. In Japan,
                                    his church has been the subject of the largest consumer fraud scam in Japanese history in which
                                    tens of thousands of people were manipulated into giving large sums of money to "liberate their
                                    suffering ancestors." "Moon has not changed his desire to convert the world," warns Hassan.
                                    "Responsible people need to stand up for the principles of freedom and democracy, and not be
                                    deceived and manipulated like I was."

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 09:11 PM

Alice, Dallas Alice:

Yeah, I've known since the Washington Times came to DC that it was a "Moonie" rag. JUst couldn't understand why it reads just like a Repub. campaign newsletter. Seems that the *intolerant* love the *intolerannt*.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Barry Finn
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 11:23 PM

It appears that China, Russia, France & Germany will not support war at present. Germany is the President of the Security Council for this month which, as far as I understand gives them a little more pull. Of the five (the Americans & British are the other 2) who have a perminent vote with veto powers there's 3 that state NO. Of the other 15 members the US would need 9 members, which does't fly if there's a veto & France has already stated it will use it's veto powers against war. Granted there has been some support for Bush by some other nations (not 9 though) but most will not give support against the UN's vote. On a different front it seems as if we're starting to alienate NETO, not good for Bush & Co. My belief is that Bush, Powell & others thought they would eventually win over the UN. It seems that as the US sticks it's hand out to grasp it's prize that more & more it's slipping further from reach. I think that today Powell was hit with this reality. This is the way events appear to me. It may not be as I see it but I'm hoping. Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 06:34 AM

I love the idea of these 'overheard' conversations -- it sounds like one of those convenient plot devices in a Famous Five book (maybe Nancy Drew was the same?) where our intrepid heroes eavesdrop on the baddies -- 'mutter mutter... WEAPONS INSPECTORS...mutter mutter..FOOLED THEM...mutter mutter...PLANS FOR WORLD DOMINATION...mutter mutter....MWAHAHAHAHA!!!


BJ

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Richie
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 09:38 AM

Bobert,

I suggest you check out William Safire's Jan. 29 column about Abu Musaab and Saddam.

-Richie

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Peg
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 09:55 AM

that "article" on Rev. Moon is very poorly written. Where did it come from? Is it meant to be an editorial? It reads more like a ranting press release.

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 11:56 AM

Here are a couple of URLs for the Moonies' website, Peg. The second link is to some of Rev. Moon's ideas, in his own words, about world domination...

Unification Home Page

God's Fatherland and the One World

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 12:55 PM

I'm still watching the continued "live" coverage of the UN. Security Council and , so far , both China & Russia are willing to accept the current process of U.N. Inspections and are apparently letting Iraq off with 1st warning ( suggesting there would be 2nd & 3rd and perhaps indefinite subsequent warnings )& a probation of a manner.
With all of the alterior motives ascribed to the U.S. 's agenda amounting to another "Waco"-style storming of Saddam's compound I have to ask why no one is willing to offer as much
scrutiny to Russia's & China's alterior motives buttressing their U.N. Security Council recommendations.

We all "should" know that Beijing has let it be known, in "no" uncertain terms that it "will" take back Taiwan by military means if necessary and it will t5olerate "no" interference from foreign; powers especially the U.S. Beijing is known for far wider reaching Totalitarina-style human rights abuses than Sadam's
regime. It also knows that it is a "key" player in the North Korean "issue" of "proven" nuclear weapons production and "proliferation". It knows it "must" remain the key player in resolving the still "hot" real & present danger of N.Korea's
nuclear weaponry production agenda.

Witness that N.Korea is far further along in its declared agenda than Iraq was when Isreal chose to act upon its decision for a "unilateral pre-emptive" strike against the Osirac nuclear "energy" production plant in 1981( peaceful nuclear energy production in a nation with the 2nd largest private reserve of oil ).

I must ask if those in this thread genuinely consider 'that" pre-emptive strike against Iraq's nuclear ambitions with the same vehemence that they now oppose anything beyond the
present U.N. inspections "enemic" and woefully under-resourced system while having to try an out-think Saddam's hide & seek "cheating" on his own playing field.

I ,personally , am for leaving the assembled troops in place to continue an even more vigorous "containment policy" while back-up making this a true and thorough "search & seizure" operation with the U.N.'s search warrant in hand....which is supposed to be what the U.N. inspection is 'supposed" to be all about.
Ofcourse I've always been of the opinion that this should have been done back in 1991 after a Scharztkopf victory and cleaned out Saddam then. That oppurtunity has been lost forever and now we are here again, like it or not

The French U.N. delegate just announced they recommend a far more rigorous inspection effort tripling the amount of resources
with regular follow-up. This means even France determines Iraq "is" now considered a credable threat to global security and "has" been actively and conciously "thwarting" the collective U.N. efforts to enforce compliance.
Let us all please remember that this "is" always been about the U.N. doing "its" job and fulfilling its mandate or it is a meaningless alternative to the kind of "unilateralism" that lies ahead ,say, if and when Beijing decides it can no longer wait for Taiwan to come back into the embrace the motherland mandate.

Now Russia is known to have oil deals with the current Iraqi regime so it , along with France , has its proftable alternative motive to it's pre-scripted agenda.
BTW: Anybody aware that these speeches were written for these U.N. reps "before" the Powell presentation. They are for ratcheting up far more rigorous "search & seizure" inspection "enforcement", but that's after the rather damning report that Hans Blix delivered over a week ago. ( Anybody read it ?)

Right now I feel that these U.N. imspectors are even braver than the fallen Shuttle astronauts because they are the world's "canaries in the mine" , constantly under "armmed" monitoring,
and with a cornered Saddam regime who has already shown how far he is willing to go to play the "illegal" weapons shell game. I can say illegal because it "is" the U.N.'s mandate that
even the "obstuction" of the inspections ,let alone possession of production tools & materials, let alone finished weaponry ,is clear violation.
Either you belive in the U.N. as the viable alternative to unilateral war or not. Whether the U.N. is up to carrying out its mandate remains to be seen.

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 01:12 PM

I didn't watch the "Powell Show" because I knew it was going tobe more of the same. Sinister looking ariel photography which shows abosolutely nothing. Construction eqipement. Oh, how scarey. And a bunch of suppositions, unsupported aquisations and lots, no make that looks of "buzz words" that a team of psycologists and marketers have been testing on some control group hooked up with wires and monitors.

What a load of crap.

And, Tal, consider the reality the the US is the only *super power* and can make life pretty miserable for whom ever that want. Is it any wonder that other nations will soften their public positions the closer that the US get ready to unleash a fire storm in Bagdad that will rival Hiroshama in its destruction?

Hey, I just heard a guy on Pacifica call in and say that he was a radical leftie (which I doubt...) who after hearing Powell's PR show says he now want's the US and just *do it*! Hmmmmmm? I wonder if the guy has given any thought to just how little the US has done diplomatically other that threaten Iraq under Bush? None! Zip! Zilch! Nada! That's how much!

Resist insane foriegn policy..

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: JedMarum
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 01:47 PM

Powell's presentation was excellent. Forceful, fact-filled and wise. He will have the Sadam supporters at least squirming to find reasons to continue to hide their heads in the sand.

There is no doubt about Iraq's continuing efforts to arm itself with terrible weapons - and there is on doubt about its intentions. Either the UN will take action or prove itself irrelevant ... either the way the US and its allies will take the action neccessary to stop Sadam.

Well said Mr Powell! Thank you for your patience, for your effort and for your considerable talent.

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Frankham
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 01:55 PM

It seems to me that Powell was quoting sources that he didn't reveal. Aereal photography can be doctored. It's unfortunate that there is not real universal trust on the part of the American people for the speeches of Powell or any other administration "hawks".Their ranting seems to me an exercise in hysteria.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: JedMarum
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 01:59 PM

Most Americans by far support Powell and his points of view. The polls make clear the wide spread support for this administration's policies regarding Iraq. I'd be very surprised if today's presentation to the UN by Sec Powell did not bolster that support.

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Wolfgang
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 02:10 PM

A quick-press analysis from Germany (I summarise in my words what DER SPIEGEL writes):

A very impressive Colin Powell with some impressive documents.
The taped conversations and the aerial photographs of trucks removing material just before the inspectors arrive are considered convincing. The case for the aluminium tubes necessary for nuclear bomb manufacture is considered much less convincing.
The Saddam Osama link is considered completely unconvincing.

All in all, DER SPIEGEL is convinced that Saddam cheats and hides soemthing, but we do not know what.

The case for the USA would be stronger if they did not switch the reported reasons for tackling Saddam so often. (end of article summary)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: DougR
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 02:47 PM

Wolfgang: I don't think it takes a brilliant mind to realize that what the U. S. wants is a regime change AND to destroy Saddam's weapons of mass destruction. I just hope you folks climb aboard eventually.

Bobert: you didn't watch the Powell presentation "because you knew it would be just more of the same!" Shame on you! No one on this forum is more critical of the Bush administration's handling of the Iraq situation, and yet, when a major policy speech is presented offering information on which that policy is based, you take a powder! That certainly provides anyone interested a peek into how objective you are on the subject.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 02:50 PM

(quote)
"And, Tal, consider the reality the the US is the only *super power* and can make life pretty miserable for whom ever they want. "

Yes, I 've been considering it quite seriously every day since this Bush drumbeat bagan its suspicious "Path to War". Hence I've "always" stressed that this is always about the U.N. doing '"it's" job like it did "not" do during equal war crimes commited under their noses in Bosnia until the Clinton ,as commander-in-chief , finally stepped up to the plate ( where Bush senior uttely "failed" )and said "enough was enough". Nothing would've been resolved had it not been backed up with the rightful use of "super power" force which has resulted in Malosevic before the world court as the war criminal he is.

(quote)
"Is it any wonder that other nations will soften their public positions the closer that the US gets ready to unleash a fire storm in Bagdad that will rival Hiroshama in its destruction?"

Uhm, I appreciate & respect your passions ,and we are" friends , but invoking Hiroshima's obvious allusion to using a single nuke to deconstruct an entire highly populated city in a single morning to end a war declared by the then aggressive ( as survivors of Nanking or Korea ) "Empire of Japan" is as much a politically correct 'buzzword" and is out of place.
What would be more comparable would be the attack on Afghanistan to finally oust the Taliban and resulted in breaking their ruthless stranglehold on the victimized Afghani's.
Would you also have stayed the U.S./NATO millitary hand to leave Milosovic to continue his brutal campaign of aggressive "ethnic cleansing" and concentration camps?

What I "do" support is a far more vigorous and far more manned inspector campaign. I would advocate a 10,000 man inspection sweep with dozens of helicopters all coordinating their sweeps simultaneously. along with constant overhead drones taking photos. This does "not" threaten a single innocent Iraqi citizen.
"No" oil fields "taken".
Sorry , but Saddam has provided reasonable cause for a U.N. inspector "weapons" search that's for real. Even France now advocates that....vigorously !
We need not go to war , but we dare not just sit on our hands and allow this milliterized "beast of Babylon" to proceed "unchecked" either.
The U.S. was dead wrong to support his regime back in the Reagan Years, the U.S. was even more wrong to then not go all the way to Baghdad and clean this beast out in 1991 when clear victory over clear aggression and invasion was the right thing to do,   the U.S. was wrong to then allow ( through Bush sr. ) to brutally "ethnically cleanse" the Kurds in Northern Iraq , and the U.S. has been wrong to allow the dropping of the U.N. inspector campaign.
Let me ask this then., Rev. Bobert. Do you also feel the military enforcement of Iraq's containment within the "No Fly Zones" is wrong use of super-power status. I guess my attitude about keeping a cop on the beat remains consistant. To continue the metaphor would you feel safer if police "disarmmed" and could only use rough language?
I guess my condemnation of "abuse of power" is more eccumenical. I don't tolerate it with a super-power nor totalitarian regime nor self-imposed dictator. Sauce for da goose be sauce for da gander I s'pose.

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: harvey andrews
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 02:56 PM

Vox Pop from the lady behind the counter serving fish and chips as the Colin Powell broadcast finished on the shop TV.
"So that's the evidence? I don't think so."

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: JedMarum
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 03:03 PM

So entrenched positions remain entrenched. No surprise. Sadam will be brought down, America and its allies will take the actions required to make it happen, and then many of the fence sitters will rush to the aid of the victor. The nay sayers will continue to bitch about the "unfairness of it all" but we will all live in a safer world.

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: beadie
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 03:14 PM

Jed:
   "Saddam will be brought down" [?]

If that's all we want (and I don't disagree, entirely, with the concept), I think we could get the job done with $25,000 and a round-trip ticket for a hit man from Queens. Save money, save hassling with the UN, save US lives and materiel. Seriously, the idea of going to all-out war for the purpose of eliminating one man is giving his personal defense staff far too much credit. There's got to be more to it.

What, oh what could it be . . . . . . . . .???

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 03:32 PM

Yo, Tal:

Hey, I can live with "containment". I can live with diplomacy. I can live with the US taking a more active role in the world as a partner rather than a strick parent who only wants things the way they want 'em. I can live with the US doing an about face here and call for an Emergency Summit involving all the players in the Middle East.

What I can not live with is misinformation, manipulation of people using such and some 3,000 Patriot missles raining down on Bagdad in the first 48 hours. That's the word that "unidentified officials" are leaking left and right about the US war plan. That is me reference to Hiroshama. That is one heck of a lot of needless killing...

Doug:

I'm sorry to disappoint you but:

1. This was *not*, except in the eyes of the wormongers, an important speech at all.

2. I'd rather read the text than listen to it because I can seperate the *information*, should there actually be any, form the fanfare. The photo's will be in the newspapers. Plus

3. I have an important presentaion myself tonight at the Leesburg Downtown Committe that I am preparing for which I know has meaningful inforamtion in it.

BTW, Doug, did they show the smoking gun? No? Well, did they even show the gun? No? Well, what the heck did they show. A bunch of trucks and construction equipement. Hmmmm? Maybe they mistakenly took a picture of a construction company. You know, Iraq, has trucks and lectricity and all that stuff. But, boy, don't those ariel pics look real, real sinister and scarey....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: gnu
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 03:46 PM

Like I said above... by the risin' o' the moon, 16 February. In addition to my comment on 17 February being Presidents' Day, I find it funny, and this time I mean HaHa funny, that the inspectors will present their next report on February 14. Will Saddam get the kiss of death on Valentine's Day ?

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 03:55 PM

gnu:

Word on the street is that the military won't have everything where they want it by then and may push the invasio9n toward the end of February...

That's just what I hear...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 04:00 PM

Powell held up a vile of a suspicious looking 'white powder' if that helps you Bobert!

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: leprechaun
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 04:10 PM

That's vial.

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: GUEST,Sam
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 04:10 PM

Hopefull someone will actually do something soon...have you checked the stock market and gas prices lately?

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: gnu
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 04:12 PM

Word on the street is that the US and GB know what Saddam's got because they sold it to him. And it's so nasty that their allies will not be going in until it's mopped up. (Gee, I wonder where I heard that ?) It could be quite a mess, Custer style, but with little alternative. I bet Saddam is betting on the US hesitating to pull the big trigger. My money is on Bush... to UNlock and load.

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 04:22 PM

Right Leprechaun. Vial of vile white powder.

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 04:31 PM

Jed, I hope you were not referring to those of us who oppose an all out war when you used the phrase "Sadam supporters." I certainly am no supporter of his.

I heard some expert on NPR, yesterday, saying that the military would not be in place and ready for war until March. IMO, the longer we can keep that from happening, through inspections, working with the UN and using all diplomatic and other non-violent means, the better. By May or June it will be too hot to do anything over there. A speaker at our local college, who lived in Bagdhad for four years said it gets to 120 degrees farenheit in the city from June through October.

katgivingpeaceachance

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: JedMarum
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 08:13 PM

No Kat - I was not meaning that all anti-war folks are Saddam supporters.

And I don;t even mean that it is only miltary eans that will bring Sadam down, even at this late a date. Powell made a compelling case today. Our allies will be forced to make a decision (most have been supportive all along). They may insist on some final last chance that includes an out for Sadam if he complies - or for those among his leaders willing to comply for him.

It's funny to say "final last chance" but I guess that is where we are. Powell has laid the groundwork for a whole world action. Now it will be up to the whole world to decide where they fit in. They will be forced to decide.

I'll bet the US and allied military have been ready to go at a moments notice for months.

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: toadfrog
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 09:33 PM

I heard about 40 minutes of the Powell speech. He did speak very well. Did he try to link Iraq with Al Quaeda? I did not hear that. I found Powell credible, anlthough not as "compelling" as Mr. Marum, here. I should think if he tried to make an Al Quaeda link, that would knock his credibility down one or two notches. That was a serious question, by the way. I would like to know. Can anyone answer it.

Also heard the French representative speak, and thought he made a lot of sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 09:49 PM

I always find Darth Powell a little uninspiring without his light saber, black helmet and black cape. These formal affairs are so tedious. I would much prefer to see him at the controls of one of those gloriously evil-looking stealth fighters, zapping ragged third-worlders who stand in the way of corporate access to major oil fields, such as those in Iraq and the Caspian region.

(sigh) All this talk. When will the appeasers fall into line and join in the Great Assault (let's call it Operation Restoring Hope And Freedom) as the Empire Strikes Back yet again?

It's all so heroic, isn't it? Just like the Wehrmacht rolling into the ruins of Warsaw in 1939...and no one around to interfere this time, like those meddling British and French did in '39, screwing up the whole works. The British have had the good sense this time to join the great juggernaut, and the French...well, who really cares what they say?

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 10:08 PM

Anyone got a line on the rumor that the weapons, lock stock and barrel, have been spirited off to Syria?

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 10:19 PM

You can bet that whatever Iraq has, it ain't giving it away! I mean, why would it with Bush's nervous little cowardly finger on the war *start button*? It would be stupid. Hey, when Bush get past the first 48 hours and has rained some 3000 Patriots down on Bagdad, he's gonna have to take some boys in there to try to *clean* the joint up. Problem is that now he's gonna find gray haired old ladies that look alot like his mother with AK-47's who are right pissed off (see pic on front page of today's Washington Post). Now if Saddam can get old ladies to fight against Bush, don't think for a minute that he'd take his bigger guns and stash them where he can't use them....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Richie
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 10:50 PM

Bobert,

You're right! Iraq and Saddam aren't giving anything away. One thing is fur sure, Saddam doesn't care about the women and children in his country.

-Richie

Subject: RE: BS: Colin Powell finds the 'Smoking Gun'
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 11:14 PM

The rumor I'm refering to goes like this. When the shooting starts, all the stuff we know he has will be fired from just inside Iraq along the Syrian border.

Crazy, I think, but he did let his fighter jets leave and land in Iran.