BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: Leadfingers
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 12:58 PM

Have I got one ??

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: Leadfingers
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 12:59 PM

Damn !! No I Didnt !! dianavan did without even noticing !!

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 02:07 PM

REgardless of whose fault it is--and I firmly believe there's enough blame to go around--the question remains: Can we stop terrorism with the invasion/occupation/nation-building tactics we're employing?

When the only tool you know how to use is a hammer, all problems look like nails.

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: dianavan
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 02:34 PM

Thats the second one I got. You're right, I wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't mentioned it.

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: Amos
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 02:36 PM

And if a problem is NOT a nail, but you treat it as though it were one, the problem will persist, grow, return and continue until its actual nature is understood. This is often accomplished through the peculiar human capability for communication. And, just as often, not. Sigh...



A

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 02:38 PM

Can we stop terrorism with the invasion/occupation/nation-building tactics we're employing?

No Dick but you can create more terrorists that way.

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 02:54 PM

No Dick but you can create more terrorists that way.

We can, and we have.

On the other hand, and this is where I'm conflicted, we can't just abandon them to the chaos that we've created there, either. That's what we did in Afghanistan after we were finished using the Mujahideen as our proxy fighters there against the USSR, and that, to a very large extent, is what created the environment that fostered the birth of the Taliban and Al Qaida.

We can't really be trusted to do the job right... we're way too greedy and power mad for that. But if someone could take on the job and do it effectively and with no secondary and/or hidden agendas, there could be some hope for the Iraqis. And for us, as well.

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 03:32 PM

SH's latest post is a great example of the Straw Man fallacy.

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 03:54 PM

Even Afghanistan, CarolC, is far from 'over'.

"Anyone who thinks the Afghan war has been won and is over needs to think again. 54 American soldiers have been killed in Afghanistan in the last six months alone, compared to 52 in all of last year. While this number does not compare to the 1,748 US troops killed in Iraq, the two-fold increase in casualties over half a year is noteworthy.

Interesting Times

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: GUEST,Chuck aka Garageman
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 04:23 PM

I have never posted here, actually only glanced at Blues L a couple times. This my third time and probably the most important, for me, thread I have ever seen on the Internet. I have read and reread to be sure I caught the flow and the actuak intent. Apparently many are missing it or are just to biased to consider both sides.


To Susu's Hubby, you owe no one an apology. Your commentary was subtle and if anyone took offense, it was soley a case of "if the shoe fits, wear it". Ah yes, the truth can be painful and often provokes a very defensive retort.

Thank you, Hubby, for allowing me to see the futility of my ways involving another message board. I wish you luck on your crusade with facts and a polite delivery. Just remember than some would rather have feelings (thiers) rather than any facts.

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 04:26 PM

Exactly, Ebbie. But maybe none of that (9/11 and subsequent invasion and occupation of Afghanistan) would have happened had we made sure that the Afghan civil and material infrastructure and civil society had a strong foundation before withdrawing our help, instead of just abandoning them to the utter chaos that was all that was left of Afghanistan by the time the cold war ended (and we no longer needed the Afghans to do our fighting for us).

On the other hand, I tend to suspect that invading Afghanistan and planting a bunch of permanent military bases where the oil pipeline is supposed to go was the real plan all along, 9/11 or no 9/11, Taliban or no Taliban.

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 04:58 PM

I fully agree.

I just thought of an analogy- If this were the midst of the feudal age (instead of the 'futile age' (!) our governments would be doing what they want with impunity and without concern or regard for their serfs and peasants. Even though the serfs and peasants were always the ones who bore the brunt and costs of the feudal lords' disagreements and power struggles.

Is this what we have gone back to, with the difference being the lip service tossed in the direction of a farce of a democracy and republic? How soon before the lip service is deemed unnecessary?

OK, I grant you. The analogy fails. But I do believe that the 'people' might again become invisible and voiceless.

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: gnu
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 05:43 PM

Chuckles... or whoever you really are... fuck off. Noone believes your childish bullshit. Not even you, SB. BTW, this post is the only response you will get here... we don't feed trolls. Do yourself a favour and go somewhere else.

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 05:53 PM

Gnu,


You're probably right about GUEST, Chuck aka Garageman. We've already got enough "troublemakers" spreading TRUTH in here and ruining your little bubble. Why in the world would you want one more?



Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: GUEST,chuck aka Garageman
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 06:35 PM

Nice talk, gnu! I had not intended to come back in here, probably due to the likes of you.

I was serious, really serious, about my post.

Thanks again, Susu's Hubby.

And I hope gnu means what he says, "this is the only response you will get here". Who needs anymore of his third world verbage.

...........and, gnu, you are obviously another example of
"if the show fits"   Looks like the shoe is a little tight too. I read "ouch' in your post, gnu. ('gnu' "with a head resembling that of an ox" which is always castrated.) ALL FACTS, NO FEELINGS.

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: gnu
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:00 PM

I LIED!!! Hehehehehe!

All facts. No feelings. I agree. Completely your opposite.

Apparently, neither of you genius' got that post... because you are the same person. Your posts confirm my suspicion. Illogical and resorting to name-calling. Pretty pathetic and childish. Castrated? Lick my balls. At least I have some.

Ah, well, my work here is done. On, Wildebeeste... exposing trolls and shit-for-brains on the threads of life... work never ends.

Oh yeah... Susu's bitch... your mother would want you to apologize. Or at least try to play nice, or you might get ignored... and YOU wouldn't want THAT, would you?

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:42 PM

"Apparently, neither of you genius' got that post... "


Apparently, you're not a genius considering the fact that you think that we are the same person.

In fact, you just pretty much proved how much of an idiot you truly are.



(Now THAT was a personal attack!)


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:50 PM

Well, Chuckie, nice to see you here... Too bad you have shacked up wityh the likes of Hubby who has noe problem trying to pin such labels as "racist" or "terrorist sympathizer" on anyone who does not agree with him...

I thought you were a little more tolerant than that and am very disappointed... It'sd one thing to make yer case but quite another5 to go branding folks as racists if they don't agree with you...

You obviously didn't read this entire thread....

And, YES, Hubby owes a lot of folks here a BIG APOLOGY for isinuating that folks who are question the Bush administartions motives for attacking Iraq are "racist" (or jealous, like ahahahah... 'cept it ain't funny...)

You picked the wrong guy to allie yourself with... Go read some opf Doug R's posts.... He, like you, is a Bush supporter but he is not a sociopath...

Like I siad, my friend, you picked the wrongest of the wrong to cuddle up to...

Trust me... I've been 'round this joint a long time and Hubby is bad news fir you'....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:54 PM

at least Bobert sees that were not the same person....




Thanks, Bobert.




Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: Amos
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:59 PM

SH:

What -- you been staying up late with Martin Asshole Gibson or somp'n?

You and Chukie have a True Believer thing going on big time; if you don't recognize the syndrome, read Eric Hoffer's book by that name. Having locked yourself into a somewhat madcap, bloodthirsty and unwavering belief in the cult you two share, you are kinda impervious to the ordinary suasions of communication, dialogue, and the like.

Fanaticism like yours is not informative, interesting or helpful to anyone except your fellow cult members.

It's downright boring.

A

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 08:16 PM

Well it keeps bringing you back to offer your two cents worth now doesn't it, Amos?


Thanks for your input. It was very valuable.



Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: John Hardly
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 08:21 PM

Oh! Now that's a different way of looking at it! Hmmm. But wouldn't, kind sir, that lead one to conclude the contrary?

Quite, quite! Ha! I must laugh a bit at myself, for, as you've pointed out, it seems I misspoke! In my zeal to appear a wit (an aspiration that I fear a bit too far reaching!) I "left the potato and brought but the skin" so-to-speak.

Oh no, no! I certainly didn't mean to imply anything more than that I disagreed with your premise. I find you to be charming and every bit the very model of wit.

Oh, you flatter me, sir! I suppose this would lead us to conclude that, at best, we "agree to disagree", eh?

Indeed.

Have a lovely evening!

And you as well, sir!

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 08:22 PM

I will, at least fir now, say that I know Chuckie personally and, like I said, I don't think he really read the thread in its entirity, or the Chuckie I know wouldn't have been so quick to come to Hubby's defense.... In real like he a lot closer to DougR than to Hubby...

I mean, ahhhh, the Chuckie I know would resort to such juvinilistic debating tactics as the Hubster is well know for which usually insinuate labels on folks with whom do not agree with him or his hero, Bush...

But, hey, I might be wrong...

But I don't think so.... Like how can someone like Chuckie be so into the blues, which is black folk music, one one hand and be willing to play the "race card" with somweone with whom he does not agree....

Seems kinda like, ahhhh, hey, what's this all about???

Ahhhhhh, like I said, Bush ordered up a war that is being disporportionatly fought by folks of color against other folks of color... And dispute there???

Now just how do I become a "racist" for questioning the reasoning/ rationale for starting the war in first place...

Maybe, Chuckie, you like to weigh in on how this makes me a "racist"???

'Or maybe why you think it's perfectly okay fir Hubby to insinuate that I am a "racist" fir holding these beliefs???

Yeah, I am awaitin' yer answer to this one...

And don't side-step the issue like Hubby has tried to do... This ain't a rocket science question here...

What exactly makes me a "racist"????

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: GUEST,Garageman
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 08:24 PM

1. I have not been around here a long time. Maybe that is your problem.

2. I did read the entire thread, several times. Once again, you are making assumptions to try to reinforce your position. I see that a lot from you.

3. I did not see where 'Hubby' insinuated anyone was racist. It is back to the "if the shoe fits,".

4, gnu has such a way with words. (not!)

5. Amos, you are correct about one thing - this is boring!

'Hubby', you are on your own, and as long as the odds stay where they appear to be, you will have no problem.
Pouring "water down a rathole", however, is not my idea of entertainment. But maybe, just maybe, you can make someone see the light. Bear in mind you are not dealing with a group of Rhoades Scholars.

My last appearence in Mudhole.

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: Alba
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 08:27 PM

Sounds like a plan. Bye

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: GUEST,meet anf greet
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 08:30 PM

Garageman would you take Hubble the Bubble head with you.
You'de be doing this place a hellava service.

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: Amos
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 08:39 PM

To clear the semantic fog of asininity being flung out hereabouts, here is what SH itself said:

"By your continued crying, you're really only saying one of two things.

1. We're not happy because of the fact that GWB is the one leading the way of freedom that is being offered to a once-suppressed people and providing the freedom that is everybody's human right.
- or -
2. We're only saying that we want eqality for all because it sounds good. Actually, we really mean that only those that think "progressives" can do it better should be the only ones that really deserve it.

So...which is it? Are you jealous or just out and out racist?"

Neither of SH's propositions are tenable or rational, and both are based on his own kind of short-sighted bias. But, in his challenging, antagonistic manner, he required his identified target group -- those protesting Bush, or the war, or both -- as being either jealous of Bush or racist. Since Bobert is not jealous of Bush, whom he despises, it is clear that the only interpretation that can be made is "IF Bobert protests (the war or Bush or both) THEN Bobert is a racist".

This having been established, the only "shoe" that one need claim a fit for in this equation is (not being jealous of Bush) AND (protesting Bush's actions or his war), which millions of people in this country do most vehemently. SH itself has referred to this whole class, including Bobert, as racist by his text. Work out the propositional Boolean equations for yourself.

I suggest you withdraw your remarks, SH, or else admit to a problem with logic, semantics, or other reasoning powers.

A

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: gnu
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 09:14 PM

Ahhh... the crux of the biscuit... SH said... "Well it keeps bringing you back to offer your two cents worth now doesn't it,...".

Troll.

I know, I know. But, it's just so easy when they hang themselves. Please forgive me. I just can't help fighting evil. I must be one a them Stupid Heroes. Like Baitman, battling shitflies to fish the stream of life.... oh-oh... time for Oggies. But, even when I am half in the bag, I just want to say JAYSUS... oops, sorry M.

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 09:20 PM

And return or not, Chuickie.... What Amos just said... He passed Algebra in high school the first time around... Me/ Summer school and a C-.... Hey, it's passin'...

And thankee, Amos, for bringing such clarity to Hubby's post, which he has tried to rationalize even since his little pea-brain, juvilinistic self posted that load of crap...

And, back to you, Chuckie... If yer outtta haere, that's prolly real good... There are lots of cool folks to play with 'round here without buddyin' up to Hubby who is very much a misfit...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 09:23 PM

Rhodes Scholar, Chuck. And I see you're not one, either.

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: gnu
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 09:40 PM

More like a skidmark.

Okay... Oggies fer sure.

gnightgnu

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: GUEST,Garageman
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 07:31 AM

Touch'e, CarolC - and a Freudian slip on my part although my talent on the keyboard leaves much to be desired. Some would include other areas of expertise as well.

But, I digress - I came back here this AM to offer an explanation of sorts although I am sure you do not need any form of apology from the likes of me. The point should be made that I did not intend to be all inclusive with regard to my "Rhodes Scholar" comment. (of which I am not) I found the posts of you and Ebbie to be welcomed reading. The type that make for a good message board. So there!
Well, that is off my chest and I shall retreat for the final time.

Civil discourse is great. Assaulting the intellect of another for their personal thoughts is not.

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 07:55 AM

No, a Freudian slip is not a simple typo. It is a mistake that is thought to reveal something from the subconscious. It is when you mean to say one thing, but out comes your mother...another.

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 08:38 AM

Well, well, well...

Folks, I'd like you to meet the rational and sober Chuckie... He's real lovable when he's like that but, ummmmm, the boy has been knowed to sit and watch full beer cans magicly empty themselves right betorwe his very own eyes... Hwe's not too sure how this happens but believe you me, I've witnessed it an it's purdy amazing... Well, after this little trick has been performed for a couple of hours Chuckie finds himself exhausted and in this state of exhaustion his typin', spellin' and intellectualizin' skills go way down.... Then he goes to sleep with his little sleep machine that plugs into the wall and I don't know if it's the machine, the sleep or a combination of the two and, waalaa, he awakens with a new and improved outlook on life....

Good to see you here, Chuckie... I'm sure youi can handle yerself quite nicely if you'll either confine yer postin' to sunshine hours or you spend a littlwe time with my buddy, DougR, who like you is a knothead but a very respectfull knothead and keep the heck away from Hubby, who's just a knothead (sans the respectfull)...

Yer Bud,

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
From: freda underhill
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 11:05 PM

Both American and Iraqi troops in Iraq think that an Iraqi civil war has begun. So much for rescuing the people from Saddam, discovering WMDs, helping the people to achieve democracy..