Ireland's Favourite Folk Song

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 03:02 AM

I did, Jim. I don't even mind the occasional piss-take of Morris dancing but I am surprised at it coming from you. With your passionate views on maintaining the tradition I thought you may have refrained. Or at least come up with something more original.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 03:51 AM

Rule Britannia!

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 03:53 AM

Nah, not a folk song :-)

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 04:09 AM

" I don't even mind the occasional piss-take of Morris dancing but I am surprised at it coming from you."
You give as good as you get where I come Dave - instinctive defence
anybody who can describe Ed Sheeran as a folk singer deserves everything they get
Jim

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Stanron
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 04:31 AM

No folk song started it's life as a folk song. It started it's life as a song which was popular enough for others to want to learn. It started as a popular song. You figure it all out.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 05:14 AM

Jim- we all know your trenchant & often stated views on what is a folk song. I disagree as you know.

That is irrelevant, what I'm saying is you can't even set up a competition like this without defining your terms. RTE didn't do that, so the whole thing is ridiculous.


At a singing session last night, I sang a 1910 pop song 'The Spaniard who blighted my life' which has survived in my own family and thrives among the people even after 109 years. I'm not saying it's a 'folk' song- I don't believe in such definitions but does it have any validity in the tradition in your book?

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 05:54 AM

"RTE didn't do that, so the whole thing is ridiculous."
I agree
" I don't believe in such definitions "
That's ridiculous as well - folk song is a closely researched and documented Musical/poetic form of creation - to say you 'don't believe in that sort of thing' flies in the face of logic
The folk scene was based on a specific type of music and it produced some incredible and long lasting results in printed and aural form
If you thin a long rejected pop song is suitable for a folk club you and I live on separate planets
You insist on making it "my definition" - it isn't - it's the documented definition which happens to suit me
I see a future in an Irish scene that has come to recognise the importance of its folk traditions - I see a rapidly declining British folk scene that puts up the same arguments as you do
Your personal tastes atre of no interest to me as mine should be of no interest to you
I'm attempting to document a lifetime's work in folk arts as internationally agreed on in order to make it available for future generations (as entertainment and as social history) - I'm no longer sure what the English scene is trying to achieve by by`digging up hackneyed comic songs that have about as much chance attracting a young audience as does be-bop or The Charleston
JIm Carroll

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 06:12 AM

'anybody who can describe Ed Sheeran as a folk singer deserves everything they get'

probably a gig on cambridge mainstage.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 06:15 AM

Jim, I really can't see the point of even trying to engage with you- you have your views and I have mine- I never mentioned personal taste so that's irrelevant too!

As previously, your main aim seems to be to insult me for no good reason and to start another pointless argument. I thought my question was polite and to the point- basically that if a song is still popular after 109 years, it must have some validity!
I should have known what would happen and I'm not interested - have a nice argument.

As I will no doubt get another abusive reply, may I get in first and suggest that you take your books, your recordings, your tunnel vision and Jimmy Miller as well and shove them up your Khyber.
Good night- back to the thread.....

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 07:05 AM

anybody who can describe Ed Sheeran as a folk singer deserves everything they get

Made up nonsense, Jim, and you know it. I said I would be happy to listen too a couple of Ed Sheeran's songs done acoustically at a folk club and I would be happy to hear the man himself performing traditional material at the same venue. I have never described him as a folk singer and challenge you to show where I have. Once again you know you are in the wrong and try to obfuscate the issue with wild inaccurate statements.

Stick to the point. You are happy to take the piss out of Morris dancing yet go ballistic if anyone dare mention wooly jumpers, beards or, heaven forbid, fingers in ears. Why is that? One law for Jim and one for everyone else I guess.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 07:29 AM

Sorry for the aside, but..... 'The Spaniard who blighted my life' which has survived in my own family and thrives among the people even after 109 years".
Used to be a great favourite of Stanley Robertson.
Meanwhile, back in Ireland........................

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 07:49 AM

" You are happy to take the piss out of Morris dancing"
That was a joke Dave - I'm not a fan of Morris Dancing personally (for various reasons, (including the misogyny that has dominated up to now), but I've watched it with pleasure and have close friends who participate
If you can be jokey about what a folk songs is and what's suitable for folk clubs, surely you're not going to throw your toys out of the param if I ake a joke about Morris - or maybe I've misjudged you.
I've never commented on wooly jumpers and beards and my attitude to 'finger-in-ear' has been to explain it rather than "go ballistic (as you appear to be going now)

Are people really suggesting a song composed for the music hall 1911 (by Billy Merton) - not "the folk" is a folk song ?
The scene really must be in a bad way
Jim

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 07:57 AM

That was a joke Dave

Of course it was, Jim. So is "How many folk singers does it take to change a light bulb? One to do the work and 3 to sing a long boring dirge about the dead one. In unison."

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 08:23 AM

My point exactly - jokes between folkies
If you wish to find offence in a joke, you disappoint me
Jim

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Iains
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 08:24 AM

I guess the "Unquiet Grave" won't make the top 10 then!

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 08:31 AM

No offence taken, Jim. As I said, I was just a little surprised. Maybe you didn't see the exact words I wrote because there were tears of hilarity streaming from your eyes :-)

I don't even mind the occasional piss-take of Morris dancing but I am surprised at it coming from you.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 08:42 AM

"I don't even mind the occasional piss-take of Morris dancing"
I was a joke (a pun on the name 'Morris' actually) - not a piss-take Dave
I do that sort of thing regularly
I think I hit a raw nerve - for which, apologies
Jim

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 10:18 AM

We were once walking from one venue to another, in full Morris gear, when a fireman leaned out of his fire engine window and asked, "which one of you is Morris?". Quick as a flash one of our number replied," Me. Which one of you is Dennis? ".

No apology needed, Jim. No offence and no raw nerve. It is just that I get tired with the derision piled on Morris dancing by the popular media.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Elmore
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 10:42 AM

My favorite Irish folk song is "Summertime" rendered by that late great Irish lad Doc Watson.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 11:46 AM

"It is just that I get tired with the derision piled on Morris dancing by the popular media."
I feel the same about folk song proper Dave :->
Jim

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Thompson
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 12:16 PM

Dennis? Why Dennis?

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Colonel Fraser
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 12:27 PM

Dennis fire engines. Google it.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 12:29 PM

Dennis is the name of the makers of fire engines. its on the front of every fire engine in England.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 05:31 AM

To return to the thread, I believe today is a significant one in the life of the ridiculous 'favourite folk song' competition on RTE?

What sounds a LOT more interesting is the first of three hour long programmes about Seamus Ennis on the 'Rolling Wave' at 9pm tonight- marking his 100th anniversary next Sunday.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 05:44 AM

Face it, Ireland is a weird place.

They've been doing weird song competitions for many years. Theres a short story about one in The Dubliners by James Joyce.

I've only been involved in one, but I rank it as one of the strangest experiences in a fairly strange life.
After dragging me all the way from England as a a finalist - I seem to remember there had been a lot betting on the result in the surrounding towns, and there were dark mutterings about corruption in high places. One poor sod of a contestant was the guitarist in Crystal Gale's backing band - and he had come all the way from America to take part.

The judge turned out to be a cleric who bore a striking resemblance to Father Ted.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 06:05 AM

Face it, Ireland is a weird place."
SURE IS
Jim

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 06:05 AM

Face it, Ireland is a weird place."
SURE IS
Jim

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Learaí na Láibe
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 07:31 AM

As most Irish people have very little interest in folk music of any kind, I don't expect this poll to have much relevance. No doubt one of the small number of token Irish songs people sung at musical occasions will win.

Another thing, could this poll have been hijacked by some group with an agenda, as happened in the BBC poll some years back when "A nation once again" was selected as the greatest song of all time or some such title.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,patriot
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 07:34 AM

Forty Shades of Green must be I with a chance?   you can't get more Irish than that, surely?

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 08:13 AM

"As most Irish people have very little interest in folk music of any kind,"
Considering the huge uptake of traditional music by thousands of young people (far in excess of anything that's happened in my lifetime), you have to be joking
Stupid competitions such as these are a result of the increase in interest
I've just seen a list of the panel - a political journalist and four total unknowns
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 08:39 AM

That's what I'm saying Jim, you should respect the tradition of having weird song competitions.

that's why they do so well in the erovision song contest - they're match ready!

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 08:45 AM

With all respect Jim, that's an extremely silly thing to say.

The Jury

You have at least heard of Brian Mullins, Nuala O'Connor and perhaps Mary Black and Leagues O'Toole at least. Aside from those there's an ethno-musicologist from UCL included Whatever else we think of this competition, it's not really a bunch picked up randomly off the street.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Learaí na Láibe
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 08:56 AM

@Peter Laban,

Thanks for link. I was a bit too negative in my former post. I thought wrongly 'twas just mainstream musicians were involved. Those people seem to know their business.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 10:30 AM

Sorry Peter
The newspaper jut mentions five today, I (wrongly apparently) assumed they wre all
"That's what I'm saying Jim, you should respect the tradition of having weird song competitions."
Like Eurovision - you mean ?
Jim

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 10:39 AM

Disappointed that Brian Mullen has become involved in this nonsense - he's a fine singer with a great respect for the tradition (as will probably be seen tonight if he puts in a return appearance in the second Sam Henry programme)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Thompson
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 03:30 PM

Some candidates? I'll start with a few:

The Last Rose of Summer
Wild Mountain Thyme
Meeting of the Waters
She is Far From the Land
Bodenstown Churchyard
Nell Flaherty's Drake
Eamonn an Chnoic
Cill Chais
Slán le Máigh
Liam Ó Raghaille
Amhráin Mhuighnise
Sliabh na mBan

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 29 Apr 19 - 02:29 PM

I have read back over the thread and cannot see... or have missed this one which gets sung in bars all over Ireland and in clubs in England.....Has been performed by The Dubliners, Dick Gaughan and several other well known Irish singers....... would have thought it would have been a great contender. Song for Ireland.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 29 Apr 19 - 03:52 PM

Also crossed my mind as a strong contender,and surprised not to see it in the list. Mary Black's version for me!

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Apr 19 - 04:44 PM

is this the fault of CCE jim

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Andy7
Date: 29 Apr 19 - 05:14 PM

Andy7's Favourite Folk Song Competition:

First I'll make a shortlist of my 10 favourite folk songs.

Then I'll whittle them down, one at a time, until there's just one left.

That will be my favourite folk song.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: olddude
Date: 29 Apr 19 - 05:29 PM

Wild rover

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Apr 19 - 03:11 AM

"is this the fault of CCE jim"
Doubt it Dick - not enough money or kudos for them to bother
Jim

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Thompson
Date: 30 Apr 19 - 05:31 AM

I don't think I've heard Song for Ireland sung in Ireland.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 19 - 05:34 AM

I like the song The Rocky Road To Dublin but do these producers/panel really think that The Rocky Road to Dublin is more popular in Ireland than either The Fields of Athenry or The Wild Rover, neither of which seem to be included in the list.
I would contend that you'd be far more likely to hear The Fields of Athenry or The Wild Rover being sung by an average Joe than The Rocky Road To Dublin.
Maybe the panel thought those two songs were too 'common'?

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 19 - 05:38 AM

so what IS Ireland's favourite folksong after all this?

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 19 - 05:45 AM

There's no such thing.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 19 - 06:09 PM

It's the Foggy Dew.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 19 - 02:07 PM

the Bob Roberts version?

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 01 May 19 - 06:17 PM

Hi Thompson!

Re "Song for Ireland"... I've heard it sung pretty regularly for a number of years at sessions - often, but by no means only, by visiting English singers.

Regards

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST
Date: 02 May 19 - 05:05 AM

Don't know what stage this competition is at nor how it's decided. Nor any interest really- just curious about the answer.

Ireland has the best and the worst of songs & music as far as I'm concerned- certainly it isn't the lost world of music promoted by some
posters on mudcat, CCE and Bord Failte
'Song for Ireland' promotes an image which is very rare these days-- there's an awful lot of crap & suspect that aspect will emerge as the winner?