BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,passing through
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 11:28 AM

The quick look at Radio 2 homepage shows it currently linking to the Music Club thread 'How do you define folk' and allso highlight the special Mark Radcliffe at the Shetland Folk Festival with an interview with Julie Fowlis.

Doesn't look much like discrimination to me, maybe it's just Lizzie they're pissed off with. How come she only got banned for a week?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 03:52 PM

'passing through'....you wouldn't happen to be a BBC employee would you by any chance?????????

The first link you gave, is to me, the real eye-opener! The second one, yes...great! Well done Mark Radcliffe!!

Call me cynical....(and for legal reasons, the following is purely my opinion)....but could this sudden decision to hail the Music Club as the new and 'happening' place to talk about FOLK, have anything to do with the fact that this whole situation has been so appallingly handled that the BBC are now running **** scared of actually being legally accused of suppression and discrimination, at all?????????

I was told on Thursday by the BBC Central Community Team (Community????) that I would remain banned for the remainder of the week, as they had stated, and after that I could return to the boards, with full freedom of posting, and all 'pre-mod' lifted! This would stay, as long as I didn't continue to flood the BBC and Smooth Ops with e mails!!!!!! (?????????) I had **ONLY** written to them over and over, because my questions were NOT being answered...by them!!

They then suggested that I wrote in an entirely different way, or indeed in an entirely different place, as my 'glowing and lengthy posts' upset other members! (OH PLEASE!!!!! It is NOT compuslory to read them!!!!!!!! There are OTHER people 'OUT THERE', looking in, who do though!!!) And they would be very happy to recommend other boards to which I may be more suited

(Gosh! Do the BBC really have messageboards in Siberia then????) ;0)

And...they very kindly said this:

>>"We are taking steps to ensure that they do not begin a 'witch-hunt' against you."<<

Awwww shucks! Isn't that **sweet** of them!



But........'they' as in the Music Club 'they', began a 'witch hunt' against me from practically Post 1.....and it was allowed to continue, with the BBC's permission!!

Meanwhile, (back at the ranch) on the F&A board, the most appalling 'witch hunt' has been going on for well over two years!!!!!! AND...Not a SINGLE SOUL at the BBC has ever given a **** about it before...EVER! And ALL the posters who took part in it, have never been individually reprimanded, (I have though)..or pre-modded, (I have though) OR banned, (I have though) So...that's all fair and square and above board then isn't it!!!!!! The word HYPOCRITICAL does not even begin....EVEN BEGIN to describe how I feel about all this......There was even a poster who went over from the Music Club to start a thread called 'fingers in both ears' which was purely a personallly abusive thread....and yet he/she/it is still free to post!!!!!!!

SHEESH!!

However, I should point out that the first proper e mail I had from the Mods, which was NOT a 'standard pre-printed' "Your message has been removed because of....etc.etc." which is usually sent out to everyone who has a post removed, although not always and often days and days after it has happened...was from the BBC informing me that I had been banned. Yes!! Wonderful that wasn't it!! NOT A WORD OF EXPLANATION about any of my questions though.....

So THEN....I wrote back, once more, with the whole story....except that THIS time..I told them I was going to the Press, because I was so flamingly angry at their **disgusting behaviour**!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And what do you think happened???? Go on....guess????

YES!!!!!!!!!!!......A MIRACLE!! Glory Halleluliah!!!!!

Within an hour or so....I had a whole new email from them!!

And THAT is (in my ever so humble opinion) WHY the BBC are possibly now promoting the Music Club and linking it with Folk Music....because I think they are covering their yellow BBC backs, shaking in their crumbling BBC shoes, and quivering in their creaking BBC beds!!!!

Discrimination and Suppression has (IMO) taken place and will **continue** to take place until the threads on Show of Hands and Seth Lakeman are re-opened! I was repeatedly verbally and personally abused, apparently because I had DARED to bring folk artists to 'their' Music Board, and these posts were allowed to remain, *despite* them being personal and getting to the point of harrassment, which is *not* allowed on BBC boards. (HAH! Excuse me whilst I fall over sideways like Mrs Doyle..but in complete 'harrassment' hysteria!!)

From the BBC's behaviour, based on the fact that I repeatedly told them that this was happening, yet no action was taken, I can only deduce that the BBC was in total agreement with the thoughts of those posters...that being, that Folk Music Musicians were NOT for discussion on their board, otherwise they would have removed their posts or at the very least, answered my continued questions, as to who we were, and were not, apparently allowed to talk about on their board!


And **STILL** there is no explanation as to why those two threads are closed? There is STILL no explanation as to what happened to a thread about Sandy Thom and Show of Hands, (NOT from me by the way)....which appeared, disappeared, appeared and then....came back, I think closed....only to disappear AGAIN!!

The BBC Boards and the Modding of them are a complete and utter shambles!

Oh...and I told the BBC where they could stick their boards....AND their attitudes!!

If they seriously think that I am going to write as so many of their other posters do, which is, negatively, rudely, harrassingly, abusingly and disruptively....AND if they think that I am going to spend my days on there thinking of 'Best Of' lists or 'Songs for Cremations' (oh yes indeedy!)...whilst 'OUT HERE' there are hundreds of DEEPLY TALENTED musicians who DESERVE to be written about in 'glowing' terms and whose songs take me to a million different places, and who have such power and strength in their lyrics and such vision in their views on the present and the future...and also that of the past....And if they SERIOUSLY think that I would ever, EVER want to become like some of the posters who have hurled the most appalling verbal things at me for a very long time, (some of which I have admitted to hurling right back at them...but I was banned for this...and er...they weren't!).....then they are totally and utterly even more APPALLINGLY OUT OF CONTACT with the real world than even I had imagined!!!!!!!!

I refuse to write in BLACK AND WHITE!!!! I write as I write and I write in COLOUR!!! No-one *HAS* to read **anything**....there is very little 'community' in the BBC, mostly small, strong groups of dominating people who seek to 'control' those boards...

I would rather NEVER write again, than to EVER sell my Verbal Soul to the appalling, harrassing, bullying, rule-breaking, controlling, humourless, colourless, dumbed-down, unfeeling, obsessional, uncaring, hating, narrow-minded, mind-blowingly negative, jealous, bitter, pathetic and dictatorial PRATS who seem, in so many cases, (imo) to inhabit the BBC boards.

...and who are encouraged and permitted to be there by the BBC themselves!!!!!


"INJUSTICE ANYWHERE IS A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE" Martin Luther King.


Thank you very much.....


Lizzie

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 03:58 PM

And if my post above doesn't make sense to many, then here are some words by which I and my children now live our lives! They are from Harry Chapin and they tell the story of how one person's bullying and dictatorial approach can turn out the lights in someone else's mind:

Flowers are Red
by Harry Chapin

"The little boy went first day of school
He got some crayons and started to draw
He put colors all over the paper
For colors was what he saw
And the teacher said.. What you doin' young man
I'm paintin' flowers he said
She said... It's not the time for art young man
And anyway flowers are green and red
There's a time for everything young man
And a way it should be done
You've got to show concern for everyone else
For you're not the only one

And she said...
Flowers are red young man
Green leaves are green
There's no need to see flowers any other way
Than they way they always have been seen

But the little boy said...
There are so many colors in the rainbow
So many colors in the morning sun
So many colors in the flower and I see every one

Well the teacher said.. You're sassy
There's ways that things should be
And you'll paint flowers the way they are
So repeat after me.....

And she said...
Flowers are red young man
Green leaves are green
There's no need to see flowers any other way
Than they way they always have been seen

But the little boy said...
There are so many colors in the rainbow
So many colors in the morning sun
So many colors in the flower and I see every one

The teacher put him in a corner
She said.. It's for your own good..
And you won't come out 'til you get it right
And are responding like you should
Well finally he got lonely
Frightened thoughts filled his head
And he went up to the teacher
And this is what he said.. and he said

Flowers are red, green leaves are green
There's no need to see flowers any other way
Than the way they always have been seen

Time went by like it always does
And they moved to another town
And the little boy went to another school
And this is what he found
The teacher there was smilin'
She said...Painting should be fun
And there are so many colors in a flower
So let's use every one

But that little boy painted flowers
In neat rows of green and red
And when the teacher asked him why
This is what he said.. and he said

Flowers are red, green leaves are green
There's no need to see flowers any other way
Than the way they always have been seen."



If some people want to write in black and white, they are free to do so, if others want to write in 'every colour of the rainbow' they are also free to do so!


"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you like everybody else, means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight.....and never stop fighting."
e.e. cummings. 1894-1962

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 06:21 PM

Well you're certainly getting enough space here to make up for what you lost there

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Ax
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 06:52 PM

WHY is this still in the music section? It stopped being about music a long time ago. If it ever was.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 10:16 AM

Message boarding in a laid back mood, didn't do the little folky much good
Troll comes travelling, fishin for a bite, flaming up the folk net itchin to fight
Poison spam mail, hour by hour, they keep going way too far,
They're only here to spread their strife, an everyday story of virtual life

On good old UMF where it all was born, a killfile stopped their ranting scorn
Usenet rules aint used no more, what do you think we made them for?
Wasted bandwidth makes us frown, toxic trash we can't shut down,
But all the boards will pay the price, for another troll's vision of virtual life

Once the net was plain to see, a place to build community.
If peeps got angry, or unkind, we'd join together, make them mind,
Now self-righteous fuckwit fools, are taking over, breaking rules,
Our tolerance has been the price, cos they don't respect our virtual way of life

Silent fora, empty frames, can't chat no more for trolls and flames,
Cyber world is split in two, polarised by toxic views
They don't give a damn for netiquette, they're only out for what they can get
We try reason, as their knife, is carving up our virtual life

Freedom to troll? Here's the deal, flame fests bring us all to heel,
Toxic posts of giant scale, spamming is the final nail
The coffin of our virtual dream lies in ruins across the screen
While cyber lawyers writs in hand, strip this rich and fertile land,
Cherry pick what they can steal, a butterfly is broken on a wheel

No peace, no sense

Won't share, don't care


Trolls are ruling in our virtual life

Virtual life, virtual life, virtual life

It's a little bit of virtual life

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 10:35 AM

Is that a track from the SoH CD Fuckwitness?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Liam
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 01:09 PM

>>"Cherry pick what they can steal, a butterfly is broken on a wheel"

Well I never. I knew that simile was "borrowed" from William Rees Mogg's Times editorial about Jagger & Richards, but I did not realise he himself was quoting Alexander Pope.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_breaks_a_butterfly_on_a_wheel%3F

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 01:30 PM

A simile is a figure of speech which expresses the resemblance of one thing to another in a different category (e.g. as completely fuckwit stupid as . . . [insert troll of choice]). Butterflies and wheels are not comparable, in the same way as sledgehammers and nuts are not. That's the point. Therefore, Who breaks a butterfly on a wheel? is not a simile. Cherry pick what they can steal, however, describes what's going on quite graphically.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 01:32 PM

I like Guest's use of it better though. But it shows you that old Pope was no mean hand himself at flaming:

http://www.infopt.demon.co.uk/sporus.htm

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 01:33 PM

Sorry countess! We posted at the same time - mine was in response to Liam's -

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 01:38 PM

There are two types of Dark Minds to me.

One is that of 'Guests 10.16 and 10.35' above, whose minds are on display for all to see....and who apparently, the BBC would prefer me to become like.



The other is one *far* darker. A mind that is pitch black, with no light *anywhere*

But, inside *that* mind dwelt the words and the wisdom of a soul so bright, so stunning, so compassionate, so intelligent, so illuminating, so deeply loving, that the world stared on in disbelief at the glistening stars that poured forth from her soul!

One woman.

Totally blind, totally deaf, totally mute, who took the world by storm with her positivity, her enthusiasm, her love of life..and of her fellow man.

One woman, who would have 'run her hands' over the braille version of Country Life, and absorbed all the meaning, the pictures and the feeling of empathy, that the writer of them has for the world about him.


From inside the beautiful, dark mind of Helen Keller:



"It is a terrible thing to see and have no vision"

"No pessimist ever discovered the secrets of the stars. Or sailed an uncharted land. Or opened a new heaven,to the horizon of the spirit."

"As selfishness and complaint pervert the mind, so love with its joy clears and sharpens the vision"

"Be not dumb, obedient slaves in an army of destruction! Be heroes in an army of construction!"

"Once I knew only darkness and stillness... my life was without past or future... but a little word from the fingers of another fell into my hand that clutched at emptiness, and my heart leaped to the rapture of living"

"Science may have found a cure for most evils; but it has found no remedy for the worst of them all - the apathy of human beings"

"Strike against war, for without you no battles can be fought!"

"The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched - they must be felt with the heart"

"Optimism is the faith that leads to achievement. Nothing can be done without hope and confidence"

"One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar"



Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 01:47 PM

Lizzie,

I am starting to believe you are becoming ever so slightly eccentric. You may take that as a compliment or not as you wish.

Dave Eyre

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 01:53 PM

Oh....I've been eccentric for ages Dave..no worries!! ;0)

Although I think I may be getting worse, with the glitter on the wrinkles and all...but heck...it cheers me up no end!!

Chuckle! ;0)

But I'd far rather be *me* Dave, than to **ever** become like 'Guest 10.16'

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 01:57 PM

Although, I should add, that it's great to see that even 'The Very Weird and Dark Ones' are now studying Show of Hands 'Country Life' in such depth!

I'll bet they know it even better than I do!!

YAY! You just can't keep the Best Banned Band In The Land down can you!!

Everyone loves 'em!!

;0)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 02:00 PM

Aw, c'mon! Even if you think SoH's Country Life had any merit in the first place (which obviously I do not however mightily LC wields the sledgehammer), you have to admit that was a pretty damn good parody . . .

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 02:20 PM

On good old UMF where it all was born, a killfile stopped their ranting scorn
Usenet rules aint used no more, what do you think we made them for?

Well, fortunately, good old umf is still going and I like usenet...

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: captainbirdseye
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 02:41 PM

Well done Lizzie ,at least you care about something, more important than punctuation and pedantry.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 02:48 PM

If that's what 'folks your boat' Diane, (countess) fair enough, but nope, strangely, it's not for me. However, I think there's a whole new TV series waiting to be written about the BBC Mods!

Good to see there's more than one Secret Show Of Hands fan in here though Diane eh? ;0) How is your subscription to Longdogs by the way? Are you still a fully fledged member these days, as you once were? Or do you just go in for the live chat now and again to 'jolly' things up?

Oh...and if you're coming to Abbotsbury...sadly..my rug (YES! I have..a...rug!)....is FULL. However I've heard that the sound is excellent from the middle of the lake in the Japanese Garden...

You could write about it on the BBC board afterwards....except they'd probably remove it...or close it down...but hey! **NOW** you can tell everyone about it on the Folky Music Club board as well..Ah! Er...except that they'd er...probably do the same thing....their only thread on their is STILL closed...and STILL no explanation!!

Oh...that reminds me....I got another e mail from the 'Official Complaints' people today, I was very impressed with it arriving on a Sunday and all! Finally I thought it would contain some answers..but er....it was just to say that they were sorry I was unhappy about their other letter, (you remember, the one that told me to write to the mods etc)....and perhaps I'd like to...altogether now...."WRITE TO THE MODS" (!!!!) YES!! We all know it off by heart now don't we!

**YOUR** BBC: Winners of The Worst Customer Care Award *ANYWHERE* *ANYTIME* (imo)

"The real test of any organisation is how it deals with complaints from the public." - Michael Grade BBC Chairman

And here it is:

>>>Dear Ms Cornish

Thank you for your further e-mail regarding the Radio 2 Music Club message board.

I understand that you continue to have concerns about moderation on the board.

As my colleague Paul Wheeler previously advised, if you feel you have been subjected to unfair moderation, you should contact the message board team directly via the following webform:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/messageboards/newguide/feedback_form.shtml

In the meantime, I would like to assure you that your further comments have been fully registered on our daily audience log. This internal document will be made available to bbc.co.uk and Senior BBC Management.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact the BBC.<<<


You **too** can have one of these utterly amazing, in-depth, 'we've looked at absolutely EVERYTHING in your letter and are aghast at what we have found..we are SO sorry' letters as well...ALL you have to do is make an official complaint to the BBC or the Mods...and the Mods will send you a similar letter, telling you to make an official complaint!!!

And if that wasn't enough to make you realise how much YOUR BBC cares you can also complain to Smooth Ops as well. Yes, all you have to do is press the link below then go to there 'Complaints' button, where you will be given further instructions, I tell you what though...I'll do it for you, here you are!:

http://www.smoothoperations.com/complaints.htm


Isn't it just WONDERFUL!

I suggested that he went over there himself and spoke to them....amongst other things!



Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 02:57 PM

captainbirdseye - PM
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 02:41 PM

"Well done Lizzie ,at least you care about something, more important than punctuation and pedantry"





No more Captain Jack Sparrow, I am *done* with you!

For I have foresaken you for another!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/graphics/2005/09/17/cnuni17.jpg


Swoon!

:0)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 03:00 PM

Longdogs? Moi? Perish the thought. I can't abide dogs. Or dishevelled duos. Or SmoothOps. Feargal, Solomon and Arantxa agree. For the avoidance of any doubt, let me declare here and now that I've never been anywhere near Longdogs. As if. Miaow.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Blowzabella
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 03:10 PM

Miaow is right - another saucer of milk for the Countess please.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 03:23 PM

Milk is bad for cats. We don't like it. We'll have a G+T then a crate of Duvel (each). And another song to take the piss out of tedious trolls. And some music (though not from R2, obviously).

Radio Norway , that'll do.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 03:43 PM

And do I hear aright? Someone claiming the moniker Blowzabella (a jolly fine band) seemingly enamoured of fading, 80s-stylee pub rock? Shurely shome mishtake . . .

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Blowzabella
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 03:25 AM

The moniker has nothing to do with the band Blowzabella - it has more to do with Thomas D'Urfey! For info I'm far from enamoured of 80s-stylee pub rock - I rarely listen to any music which isn't purely acoustic, in fact.

See how mistaken you can be by jumping to conclusions?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 03:48 AM

Oh well, have a bottle of Duvel, Blowzy, and try and get over how these Longdoggies have in the manner of Humpty Dumpty hijacked the term 'acoustic' to mean precisely the output of MOR, faded pub-rock, mid-Atlantic drawling, dishevelled duos (with PA natch).

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 04:37 AM

Diane (countess)...I wonder if I could ask you a favour?

I know that your total, overwhelming obsession with Show of Hands is also one of your deep and over-riding passions, however, this thread *was* initially about the fact that you can talk about *certain* artists on the BBC Radio 2 Music Club board, yet not *others*, as *their* threads are being closed down without any explanations.

So....if you could just *stop* talking about Steve Knightley and Phil Beer for at least the next few posts, (although I fully appreciate that it will be hard for you to do this) in order that others are free to come on here and talk about the subject of this thread, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you so much.......

Although, I should add that I perfectly understand your frustration about NOT being able to talk about Show of Hands or Seth Lakeman on some BBC boards now, and I do realise that this request may prove difficult for such a devoted Show of Hands fan such as yourself...but I truly feel that it is time to let others have a say.....

Thanking you again....


Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 04:53 AM

Oh!.....and Diane....just one thing I forgot to say:

http://sc.groups.msn.com/tn/AC/02/Nanapennypockets/36/481.jpg


And now...back to the topic of the thread.......(hopefully)....although I would say that this thread is probably now best left to sleep for a hundred years....or more!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 04:54 AM

Why am I getting a feeling of Deja-vu with the last couple of posts here?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 04:54 AM

Couple, lets say 3 or 4 posts.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 05:02 AM

The plight of artists which you are absolutely NOT allowed to raise at the BBC concerns the former Leader/Trailer catalogue, currently in the clutches of a Gollum-like creature in North Yorkshire. I have been told to keep my mouth shut about Celtic Music/Music By Mail and its associated distributors/shamefaced collaborators far more times than anybody else has been censored for SoH/Lakeperson over-abuse.

Because the BBC continues to carry ads for this nasty little, wholly unethical outfit on its F&A page, I don't find it at all difficult to fathom why they behave as they do. Like it or not, the BBC which we pay for is a business, obliged by Charter to conform to various guidelines and constraints with which we may or may not agree. Being harangued constantly by one person to operate a wholly unfeasible music policy, wrapped up in off-the-wall, Daily Mail-like social policy fantasies, is likely to get up their noses. Why LC is unable to see this remains a mystery.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 07:03 AM

It is not true that Lizzie is the only one being put in pre mod, or banned, it is also not true that some of the players were not chided either by the F&A host or by fellow participants.

It strikes me that going from pre-mod, to a ban for the rest of the week and then to be given unfettered access the following week is at either lenient or incomprehensible.

Finally, don't go on about "making lists about songs for cremations". There are some raw nerves that could be touched here. One of the most touching cremations I have ever been to was of a person who organised a folk club, was the driving force behind it, gave advice and lessons to people keen to learn an instrument and gave many unkown artists a break. His death was sudden and unexpected and in closing days left his treasured instruments to several people in the club, left legacies to protect the future of the club and others that he loved visiting and another to an organisation that is devoted to helping musicians improve so that a young person can be sponsored. His secular funeral included songs by his close friends from the club and recordings of him playing his beloved blues and rag and in the evening a session/wake to celebrate his life.

When I joined the F&A board, I supported and respected your posts despite not sharing your tastes, I even supported you in private with those who you consider your detractors. However, despite the fact you got at times an unfair ride, it was not wise to try and fight fire with fire or to be as equally sarcastic or cynical, it just sparked further trouble. As I said earlier, loyalty and support can wear thin and in the end I grew too tired of your bickering and the bickering of others. The prospect of your return will certainly mean that my decision to no longer participate in a board that once was fun and informative will hold.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 11:08 AM

What a pleasant post Peter. Thank you so much.

I can assure you however, that despite being told I can have complete freedom back in a few days, I will not ever be returning to the BBC boards again. The ONLY reason that this decision was taken, in my view, is that I said I was going to the papers about all this. Up until that moment, I had not heard any answers to my questions. As you say, a sudden decision, but hardly strange, under the circumstances I think.

It is SO easy to sit and preach about what you should or shouldn't do isn't it Peter? Especially when YOU are merely sitting there reading/enjoying it all. However, when you are the very subject of such personal verbal abuse, it is a *very* different case I'm afraid.
Yes, we did once have 'fun' posts, right at the beginning, why you even sent me your CD, but then....things got bad, mainly because I just wouldn't go away! I completely foiled what, in my view, was an attempt to take over that board and just use it for discussion on English Traditional Folk Music and nothing else. And so...I became the 'fun football' to be kicked around the board, from English Traditioal poster to English Traditional poster...round and round they all went "Wheeeeeeeee!" Didn't they all have a great time!

But, what you have said above is no different from a teacher saying to a child, "Look, we know this is happening, but really dear, it would be *so* much better for all of us, if you just took it on the chin dear...That way, we can all get on with our lives and not have to worry....So be a good girl and let them hit you, let them punch you, let them tell lies about you, let them abuse you....but please, dear...be good and don't try and fight them! Oh yes, and be an even sweeter dear and stop talking about things that incense them...in fact dear, it's probably best if you just don't talk at all. Yes, I think that might be the best dear...because you see, if you don't talk *at all* then we can all have a lovely life and everything will be rosy again"

Well ****** *THAT* for a game of soldiers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you SERIOUSLY think that I have no feelings Peter??? Have you or others EVER stopped, for one second, to EVER think how *any* of this has really made me feel???

Well, it seems to me that you at least were far too damned busy siding along with Jon during Bullying Fortnight on the F&A board, when a torrent of abuse poured down on me from a gang of 'hoodies' and not one person from the BBC came on to stop it!

WHERE WERE YOU during that time Peter???

You talk to me of 'loyalty and support' REALLY??????????????? So where were you when Fiona started her 'That woman is a Troll and I WILL make everyone believe it!" campaign? so long ago, and which she has continues to this day! (God alone knows why though!!!!)

Loyalty? Support? Hah!

I was one person who dared to challenge you all. ONE person against MANY! It was totally, utterly, completely wrong and deeply shameful.....but NEVER did I start any of it!

SO...I suggest that you take your words to the very people who WERE responsible for it all in the *first* place!! Over and over, the whole gang stick fast together in telling ME things, yet none of YOU ever look in the mirror.....Go and preach to the *very people* who started it all Peter....but please DO NOT preach to me!!!

I have no time for lily-livered people who turn away, when something SO wrong is happening! There are far too many of them around in this world at present!! If something is WRONG then I will damn well stand up and say it!!!!

And as for this pompous statement:

>>The prospect of your return will certainly mean that my decision to no longer participate in a board that once was fun and informative will hold.<<

I can assure you that I would NEVER, *EVER* choose to share one centimetre of that board, with you or any of your pals **ever** again!!!! So, I suggest you go back to your FUN and INFORMATIVE board as quickly as you possibly can.

Because the 'glowing' lengthy posts will glow no more, you now have a wondrously 'grey' board again...No Smilies, Meg Ryan or otherwise, No Swooning, No Smooching, No Giggles, No Chuckles, no Winks, No Sidmouth, No Beautiful Days, No Dartmoor, No talking of Artists anymore, No Folkwaves, No Radio Britfolk, just thread after thread on 'Cambridge and Cremations'.....and not even a 'Board Fun Football' any more.....

Excellent!!

And DO NOT tell me what I CAN or CANNOT talk about on THIS board please, because that ONLY works on the BBC where others rights to abuse/disrupt/belittle and/or humiliate me is *wholly* permitted, but my right to reply is apparently *wholly* curtailed!!

Again, thank you so much for your post.....and now, if you'll excuse me I'm just off to put my Eleanor Roosevelt Knickers on once more:

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent"

Ahh...that's better!

And...NOT A *SINGLE* ONE OF YOU WILL ***EVER*** HAVE MY PERMISSION AGAIN!!


Lizzie

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 11:29 AM

Hey Pete, do you want to borrow my shitptoof umbrella?
And Ms Cornish, put your knickers back on immediately . . .

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 11:49 AM

I completely foiled what, in my view, was an attempt to take over that board and just use it for discussion on English Traditional Folk Music

Wow Lizzie, your fantasies get worse, not only have you suggested that I who once tried to defend you (but also tried to resaon with you~) was involved in some sort of plot. I see it now was to turn the board soley to English Traditional Folk Music.

I can assure you that if such an attempt had ever been made, I would have been fighting it. It's quite well known in most places that my first love in this "folk music scene" is Irish dance music.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 11:57 AM

And DO NOT tell me what I CAN or CANNOT talk about on THIS board please

That's quite rich from someone who opens threads with comments like. And could it please be possible for any of the Radio 2 F&A usual 'Gang Of Pathetic Suspects' to not come on this thread to hurl their usual 'She's A Troll!' abuse at me.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 12:10 PM

Oh so sorry Jon.....

Please hurl away with yet more abuse then....


You know what really fascinates me is WHY, when you all now have the board you have *always* wanted, you are STILL following me around hurling abuse??????????????????????????


Why don't you ALL ******** off to the F&A board and yatter to each other about banjo chords for one fingered banjo players or discuss Holy Grails with The Artist Formerly Known As Fiona nic, now known as Faerie Nuff.....or as I've heard her called in some circles...'Stinkerbell'

I'm sure you'll all enjoy it much more!


Thank you so much!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 12:12 PM

You know what really fascinates me is WHY, when you all now have the board you have *always* wanted, you are STILL following me around

Lizzie, I've been around Mudcat since late 1999. I don't think you can make a case for me following you here either.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 12:37 PM

And I've been a Mudcat member for three years and an occasional guest since 2001. I know Faerie Fiona personally and she neither smells nor jingles. And, oi Cornish, have you put those knickers back on yet? It's the draught, y'know, that confuses her and makes her think anything that's not acoustic pop is English trad, so much so that any performer of such material that she once said she liked has now been banished from her MySpace page.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 12:39 PM

I wasn't talking about Mudcat..I was talking about WHY, if you loathe *ME* my postings and my threads SO much....are you in HERE....arguing with me and calling me names in the first place!

THINK about it Jon!

Seems to me that you've all been doing it for so long that you simply can't stop!

Here...go kick this around instead! It's far more healthy!!!

http://tell.fll.purdue.edu/JapanProj/FLClipart/Nouns/Sports/football.gif

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 12:46 PM

Lizzie, you start an inflamitory thread opening with the suggestion that folk and accoustic music can only be started on one board, etc. and reffering to a pathetic gang... in another board I use and you wonder why I'm involved it this thread??????

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 12:50 PM

And Sweetums!!! For your limited brain!!!!!!!!

I've had Tom Bliss playing all day!! I change my page and music almost EVERY day and on there you'll find a whole WORLD of music!! ONE MUSIC!!!

Because Myspace has opened up my mind in a way that the NARROW-MINDED, IDIOTIC, OBSESSIONAL, UNPLEASANT F&A board NEVER did!!!! And I will never want to talk about British music alone, ever again...as THE WHOLE WORLD MATTERS!!!!!

Tom Bliss is AS important as Vinnie James and Vinnie James is AS important as John Trudell, who in turn is AS important as Ayub Ogada, and Ayub is as important as Sofiane Saidi, who is AS important as Duncan McFarlane who is as important as Johnny Whitehorse...and Johnny is as important as George Papavgeris etc...etc..etc....!!!!!!

And it's MY Myspace page so just you ******* off and leave IT and ME alone!!!!!!

And YES...my Knickers are STILL ON..but any minute now, I will be whipping them off and plonking them over YOUR head!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you SO much!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 12:53 PM

Jon, I suggest YOU avoid ME like the plague!!

That way....you'll be much happier...or not...as the case may be..but I really couldn't give a damn either way after how you have behaved!!

Go and swoon over Stinkerbell....and then you and she can have a Lizzie IS a Troll Party and live happily ever after!

Thank you!!!!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 01:05 PM

Aw your all upset now, Lizzie. The problem is yours my dear.

One good thing with Mudcat is that there are many threads and as much of what you say is of little interest to me, our paths shouldn't cross often.

(In fact looking back - I see in fact that you first started in 2005 and our paths have hardly crossed here - quite a different reality to me following you around and having a desire to persecute you isn't it?)

But don't start a thread pretty well guaranteed (although I should know better and ignore trolls) to draw me in and then complain about my presence.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST,Liam
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 01:24 PM

>>anything that's not acoustic pop is English trad, so much so that any performer of such material that she once said she liked has now been banished from her MySpace page

That page of Lizzie's has around 670 Friends links on it, so I'm not sure anyone has been "banished". There are a whole load of links up the side to various decent artists without MySpace pages yet as well. If I were in her shoes I would pay far more attention to the 110 pleasant comments from folks on that page and not worry very about some of the less pleasant remarks made here or in certain other places.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 03:27 PM

LC judges performers not by their musical ability (how could she?) but by: (a) whether she fancies them (obviously), or (b) whether or not they've had the temerity to speak out even ever so mildly against her most ludicrously embarrassing, wholly off-topic, inane excesses that threaten their credibility and careers. If they haven't (to her knowledge), she harvests them by clicking on their MySpace link, if they have one. She doesn't actually know any of these performers, plucked randomly from anywhere, nor have I actually come across any who know her, that I believe anyway. Indeed I remain convinced that she is merely a random spam generator, a program and not a person.

So, this cyber-worm, this trolling virus, starts up flaming conflicts (involving - yeah, hands up - some of us who should know better) which preclude immediately rational discussion about music, which was what we (but not she) were there to do. She's wrecked threads about tunings, copyright, dance and song origins because she finds them boring because they're not about her and her latest fad, or writing songs which reflect her dubious take on the week's social issue.

Usenet used to have the facility of 'killfile and move on'. How DO you assassinate a troll nowadys?

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 04:28 PM

Countess.
Have to agree. I use message boards as a resource, to find information, and as a sideline, discover the whereabouts of people that I've lost touch with over he years.
I've never knowingly heard Show of Hands, Seth Lakeman et al. and, after the huge amount of verbiage from a certain person, I don't think that I'd want to. (probably lovely people, I'm sure)
Regards

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 04:35 PM

The Freedom and Dictators thread:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F2142825?thread=2571927

Martyn Joseph:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F2142825?thread=1668197

Musicians and Dyslexia:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F2142825?thread=1309159

Holy Books & Judges:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F2142825?thread=1213827

George Papavgeris 'Anytown':
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F2142825?thread=1093442

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 04:35 PM

Woops....pressed the wrong button! Back in a minute!! Disregard the post above until there's an explanation!!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Boards And Music Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 04:45 PM

Please don't bother