BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave

Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:17 AM

Thanks for refreshing this thread; I was looking for it yesterday. I signed the petition last night.

I see another thread has appeared re today's activities and someone was looking for this thread - perhaps they can be amalgamated if a friendly elf is nearby.

I'll pm Joe and ask if the threads can be amalgamated.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:19 AM

Yes,and that is where they will be going back to. Our government has to take a stand. I wrote to my MP regarding this matter and received an assurance that the government will not back down over it. Why in God's name should these people receive special treatment ? They were hired help, no different than a overseas cleaner or a nurse. They held a position and received a wage for doing so.

End of story.

EL
XOX

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:33 AM

"The Bravest of the Brave, The Most Generous of the Generous, Never Had a Country More Faithful Friends Than You!" These are the words inscribed on the Gurkha War Memorial in Whitehall.

I have taken the above from the thread that was started in June by Eddie1 - "Bravest of the Brave". I have asked Joe Offer if it is possible to combine these 2 threads.

Elliot Lurie, they are a lot different from some. Their courage, bravery, loyalty and service to this country goes beyond that of many others. They are the one group of people that we do owe something to. We're busy supporting some who have done nothing for this country and criticise and condemn it for no reason at all. You have your opinion but I don't agree with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:46 AM

Also, don't bank on any assurances from this government!

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:59 AM

The British (East India Company) first fought and defeated the Gurkhas in Nthe Nepalese war of 1815. They had such a tough time doing it that the East India Company incorporated them into their private army.

Nepal provides Gurkhas to the armed forces of the UK, India and to the Sultan of Brunei. The deal that the Gurkhas had with the Government of the UK was made with the Government of Nepal. The reason that they were not given the same pensions, etc as the men that they fought alongside in the British armed forces was because the Nepalese Government did not want these men returning home "rich" enough to upset the apple cart back home in Nepal.

My own personal take on it is that they are the best light infantry in the world bar none, having served alongside them in Borneo. Having served the crown they should by right be entitled to British citizenship, with identical pay and pension rights as any other British serviceman. They are contributers to any society or community that they find themselves in and the Crown, the British Government and the British people should be ashamed of the way that these men have been treated.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Megan L
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:13 AM

I didn't see a link to this on the thread if its there forgive me. I agree they deserve fair treatment and the petition is something but we can give practical help right now till our governament gets of its backside. Ghurka welfare

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 07:14 AM

"Why in God's name should these people receive special treatment"

Well, we give special treatment to terrorists and supporters of murderous regimes who sponge off our social system whilst preaching sedition against us, why not give the same special treatment to honourable, brave men who fought and died in order that we might be free.

You're a tit, Elliot.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 07:21 AM

Megan L, thanks for that link; it hadn't been given on this thread before. It does give us the opportunity to give practical help. £240 sponsors a veteran for a whole year but people can give smaller (or larger) amounts of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 07:30 AM

The protest culminated with a powerful symbol of their sense of injustice, when they handed back their hard-earned medals to the government.

The above is taken from the link given by Lox. Giving their medals back, what a sad day!

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 10:23 AM

If you care to read the press today backwardman you will see Britain as an island will become over populated and there are calls for the government to do something about it now. And a plank like yourself wants to add to it with hired Asian soldiers! They were paid, fed and educated. End of story, the gravy train stops the day they leave the regiment.

EL
XOX

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Megan L
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 10:28 AM

Ok Elliot tell you what can I have a dozen Gurkhas here please we would quite willingly club together to pay your ticket there in exchange my dear only I dont think that would be fair on their local community.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 10:57 AM

There is no doubt that Britain as an island will become over populated. We are keeping terrorists in luxury and we're frightened to say anything against them because of their human rights or in case they sue us.

The government has allowed this to happen BUT they want to turn away people who SHOULD be ENTITLED to stay, people who DESERVE to stay. Instead they seem to be intent on TURNING AWAY the BEST and pampering the worst.

It's a disgrace.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 11:16 AM

I've just checked the petition and there are 29,733 signatures on it. A lot of people have signed since my name was added last night.

I know that a link has already been given earlier in the thread but I thought I would give it again.

PETITION

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 11:36 AM

Oh my dear Magan I am BRITISH ! so no problems here. I just emailed my MP who agrees they have no right to citizenship and told him of a very successful and well supported petition in favour of these ex soldiers NOT being allowed to remain in the UK. He just replied and has passed the news on.

EL
XOX

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 12:40 PM

EL

"Our government has to take a stand"

Oh really ...

... against the Ghurkas ...



what a courageous stand that would be eh?


I stand in awe of your delegated bravery ...


BTW

Just to clarify the crux of my view,

The Ghurkas sacrificed and achieved more in the name of my liberty than you could ever remotely pretend to with your jumped up phony nationalism.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: eddie1
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 12:52 PM

I have no wish to give this, I feel, ignorant character the recognition of a reply so I will address this post to everyone else.
To repeat and perhaps clarify what I said in my original posting of 28 June, the group we are talking about are members of the Brigade of Gurkhas who retired prior to 1st July 1997 when the Brigade HQ moved from Hong Kong to England. Those who retired after that date DO have the right to British Citizenship, the right to remain in this country and full benefit and pension rights. This was agreed by the Government last year so whatever thingy and his MP are talking about escapes me.
Those who retired prior to 1st July 97 can apply to stay in this country but each case is treated individually. The motion passed by Reading Borough Council in June referred specifically to this group and pressed the Government to grant this group – one growing ever smaller – the same rights as those who retired after 1st July 97.
Many others have written of the reasons why we owe them. I don't need to repeat them.
Can I say that the one opinion expressed here, differing from everyone else doesn't make me angry. Just kind of sick!

Eddie

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 12:57 PM

I suspect that it is a direct result of having a government in which NO member has EVER served in ANY of our Armed Forces...

The above is taken from the Have your say section on this page. Is that correct? It had never crossed my mind to consider that.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:06 PM

TOMMY
by Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936)



I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:12 PM

That poem reminded me of this.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:14 PM

Maybe a few of you would like to head out Nepal or whatever corner of the forest they came here from and bang on about human rights, freebies or benefits and see how generous they are to you.

Thankfully the days of "Soft Touch Britain" are coming to an end.

Please drop the subject because the government and people like myself are not for turning.

EL
XOX

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:22 PM

Maybe a few of you would like to head out Nepal or whatever corner of the forest they came here from and bang on about human rights, freebies or benefits and see how generous they are to you.

I didn't fight for their country so I wouldn't expect anything. I think you are confusing the scroungers in this country with people who have the RIGHT (IMO) to British citizenship.

Also, the government will turn whenever it suits it and you and I won't be considered!

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 03:29 PM

"If you care to read the press today backwardman"

Aaahh, all is explained - it's you again, you gormless piece of shit. No wonder a Billy-No-Mates like you has to spout al, this crap to get someone to notice him. Back to the bog with your wank-mag, little man.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Penny S.
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:35 PM

I don't know whereabouts in Britain Mr Lurie resides, but I am thankful that I have not met any one I know to share his views. My parents brought me up to be proud of our long inheritance of Britishness, but I also grew up with a sense of the honourable behaviour that that demands.

It is not honourable to use people's lives and then discard them. That goes for our own military, too, but to exclude the Gurkhas in the way that has been done is mean. Meanness may be a part of our national character at certain times and in certain places, but it is not an estimable one, or one to be encouraged.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:59 PM

an aside: if you want to be correct,

"Historically, the Britons (sometimes Brythons or British) were the P-Celtic speaking indigenous peoples inhabiting the island of Great Britain south of the river Forth. They were speakers of the Brythonic languages (also called P-Celtic) and shared common cultural traditions. In terms of language and culture, much of north-western Europe was mainly Celtic during this period. The inhabitants of Ireland, the Isle of Man and Dál Riata were Gaels or Gaelic Celts who spoke Goidelic languages.

A number of scholars argue that the unknown Pictish language was Brythonic, but in Sub-Roman Britain the Picts were distinguished as a separate group, as were the Gaels of Dál Riata. Therefore, the term "Briton" traditionally refers to the inhabitants of ancient Britain excluding the Picts, because many Pictish cultural traits (for example their sculpture, pottery and monuments) differ from those of the Britons and because ancient writers clearly distinguish the two peoples."

Anglo-Saxons and Normans need not apply....

However:

"Britain has been intermittently inhabited by members of the Homo genus for hundreds of thousands of years and by Homo sapiens for tens of thousands of years. DNA analysis has shown that modern man arrived in Britain before the last ice age but retreated to Southern Europe when much of Britain was ice covered, with the remainder being tundra. At this time the sea level was around 127m lower than today so that Britain was joined to Ireland and to the continent of Europe.

After the end of the last Ice Age (around 9500 years ago) Ireland became separated from Britain and later (around 6000 BC) Britain was cut off from the rest of Europe. By 12,000 BC Britain had been reoccupied, as shown by archaeology. By around 4000 BC, the island was populated by people with a Neolithic culture.[1] However, none of the pre-Roman inhabitants of Britain have any known surviving written language. No literature of pre-Roman Britain has survived, so its history, culture and way of life are known mainly through archaeological finds. Though the main evidence for the period is archaeological, there is a growing amount of genetic evidence which is still changing. There is also a little amount of linguistic evidence, from river and hill names, which is covered in the articles on Pre-Celtic and Celtic."

"The first distinct culture of the Upper Palaeolithic in Britain is what archaeologists call the Creswellian industry, with leaf-shaped points probably used as arrowheads. It produced more refined flint tools but also made use of bone, antler, shell, amber, animal teeth, and mammoth ivory. These were fashioned into tools but also jewellery and rods of uncertain purpose."

"Beaker pottery appears in England around 2475–2315 cal BC[8] along with flat axes and burial practices of inhumation. With the revised Stonehenge chronology, this is after the Sarsen Circle and trilithons were erected at Stonehenge. Believed to be of Iberian origin, (modern day Spain and Portugal), Beaker techniques brought to Britain the skill of refining metal."
"There was some debate amongst archaeologists as to whether the 'Beaker people' were a race of people who migrated to Britain en masse from the continent, or whether a prestigious Beaker cultural "package" of goods and behaviours (which eventually spread across most of western Europe) diffused to Britain's existing inhabitants through trade across tribal boundaries. Modern thinking tends towards the latter view. Alternatively, a ruling class of Beaker individuals may have made the migration and come to control the native population at some level. Genetics suggests that there was only a small infux of people to Britain at this time, around a few percent."



"There is evidence of a relatively large scale disruption of cultural patterns which some scholars think may indicate an invasion (or at least a migration) into southern Great Britain circa the 12th century BC. This disruption was felt far beyond Britain, even beyond Europe, as most of the great Near Eastern empires collapsed (or experienced severe difficulties) and the Sea Peoples harried the entire Mediterranean basin around this time. Some scholars consider that the Celtic languages arrived in Britain at this time."



So even Celts are newcomers....


By 600 BC, British society changed again. Often termed the "Celtic culture", it had by 500 BC covered most of the British Isles. The Celts were highly skilled craftsmen and produced intricately patterned gold jewellery and weapons in bronze and iron. It is disputed whether Iron Age Britons were "Celts", with numerous academics such as John Collis[9] and Simon James[10] actively opposing the idea of 'Celtic Britain', since the term was only applied at this time to a tribe in Gaul. However, placenames and tribal names from the later part of the period suggest that a Celtic language was spoken, for example the people were said to be "Pretanni". The term "Celtic" continues to be used by linguists to describe the family that includes many of the ancient languages of Western Europe and modern British languages such as Welsh without controversy.[11]



So, who is claiming to be a "native"?

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:36 PM

So, anyone whose family was not already in Britain when the Beaker people came in is an immigrant and should be aware of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:52 PM

Penny, I am proud of my heritage and I am also sick sore and tired of our wonderful country going down the pan with an influx of migrant so called workers or illegal immigrants standing with their hand out and receiving the money they beg for.

So many hard working young British couples are struggling to make ends meet, this young generation is our future, these people are born and reared British. I am sorry if some of you are too dammed thick to see it, but these Nepal blokes received a wage for a job they did, end of story. So what about the Asia nurses and cleaners looking after my granny in a care home ? Should we slip them a note telling them that because they wiped asses in the UK they can look forward to a weekly handout courtesy of the British taxpayer when they decide to stop working ?

The government are putting the breaks on and it's jolly well about time.

EL
XOX

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 03:52 AM

I'm sure that a lot of people (me included) are pleased that the government are putting the breaks on .... BUT they have got it WRONG here.

What possible moral case exists for saying that a Gurkha discharged in 1996 after 15 years' service is any less entitled to come here than one discharged a year later, after five years in the Army? For some Gurkhas falling outside the cut-off date who are already living in Britain, sometimes in penury, it means the prospect of deportation.

It is extraordinary that the authorities are prepared to deport someone who fought in our Army, yet last week the Court of Appeal ruled that under an EU directive, an Italian who served nine years for robbing a pensioner - and had a string of other convictions - could not be ejected because he did not pose a serious threat to the security of the nation.

Pre-1997 Gurkhas are not able to stay or settle because the Home Office says they cannot demonstrate "close ties" to this country. Even serving Gurkha soldiers are not treated equally. Their children are regarded as foreign students and must pay fees of up to £13,000 a year if they want to attend university. Only when citizenship is granted after a lengthy application period once they leave the Army are their children regarded as home students in the UK.

All of this is particularly galling when you consider the mess the Government has made of our immigration system. Over the past 10 years, it has allowed hundreds of thousands of people who have no claim to settle here to do just that.

That is taken from here.

Let us not confuse different groups of people and lump them all together under one heading!

I just hope that the High Court in London rules in their favour. That would be JUSTICE!

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 04:20 AM

eanjay, Please don't select certain professions as "elite" or imply one persons job is more important than another's.

I am sick of television programmes about Ambulance Drivers, Firemen, Nurses, Life Guards and soldiers. All are paid positions of employment and come with risks and dangers.Everyone's job is important.

This can also be said for the regiment of the British army, it's a paid job. These guys get the chance to leave their country, receive a good wage, a trade or profession and see a lot more of the world than if they stayed at home. If their so loyal, why come over here, why not stay in their own country ?

Listen, they were paid and when the job is over send them home, end of story, for Christ sake we have been the feeding cup for for too long for every Tom, Dick and Gurkie.

The government says they drew a line in the sand at 1997. ACCEPT IT.

EL
XOX

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: GUEST,ted
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 04:29 AM

This goverment should be ashamed of the treatment of these great soldiers and also ashamed that this has been allowed to go on and into court

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 07:26 AM

Please don't select certain professions as "elite" or imply one persons job is more important than another's.

Elliot,your words not mine!

You are either not understanding what I am saying or you are twisting my words.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 07:28 AM

30,366 names on the petition when I just looked :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 09:12 AM

Thank you, Lox and others, for the information. I wish I was eligible to sign the petition.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: Stu
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 09:57 AM

"So, who is claiming to be a "native"?"

Me.

During the last ice age, a group of people crossed the land bridge from the continent and decided to settle in the green and pleasant land they found. After the ice melted they realised they lived on a fine set of islands with cool green forests, high mountains and deep blue lakes. There were no borders, countries or accents, and everyone got on just fine. They loved the land, the animals and above all the music they heard around them - the melodys played by the running of the streams and becks, the vast sweeping textures of the winds on the fells and the rhythym of the crows wing beating home to the roost as the day draws to a close.

These people, who went on to populate all the many islands of the archipeligo were the ancestors of stigweard, who still delights in the music of these Isles he calls home, whose diverse traditions are the musical heritage his ancestors have handed him.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: sapper82
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 10:50 AM

Elliot, as an ex-squaddie and a committed Tory of the Thatcherite persuasion, I have two words to say to you.
The second word is Off.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 11:03 AM

Ah, as promised the walking failure arrives in the form of that publicly disgraced Royal Engineer. Sorry old boy, we are discussing line regiments on this thread, that qualifies me, not you. Please push on back to the workshop !

EL

XOX

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 11:07 AM

Oh dear!

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: CET
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 02:08 PM

I have signed the petition, by virtue of having been born in Britain, though I have been a Canadian for lo these many years. There are a couple of Gurkha soldiers serving on the same camp as me here in Afghanistan.

I, too, grew up with stories about the Gurkhas from my father, who knew them in Malaya.

I don't believe that the troll calling himself Eliott Lurie ever served in the British Army. No real soldier would ever say the things he has said about the Gurkhas. And no real infantryman would express contempt for Engineers. Any one in a real line regiment knows they are first in and last out, and just as tough as any rifleman.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 02:10 PM

And no real infantryman would express contempt for Engineers.

Same for the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 04:33 PM

"During the last ice age, a group of people crossed the land bridge from the continent and decided to settle in the green and pleasant land they found."


Immigrant! Your forebearers came in and displaced the resident Neanderthal population!

What your five- and sixbearers did I don't want to think about!

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 04:41 PM

Sites such as Boxgrove in Sussex illustrate the later arrival in the archaeological record of an archaic Homo species called Homo heidelbergensis around 500,000 years ago. These early peoples made Acheulean flint tools (hand axes) and hunted the large native mammals of the period. They drove elephants, rhinoceri and hippopotami over the tops of cliffs or into bogs to more easily kill them.

The extreme cold of the following Anglian Stage is likely to have driven humans out of Britain altogether and the region does not appear to have been occupied again until the ice receded during the Hoxnian Stage. This warmer time period lasted from around 300,000 until 200,000 years ago and saw the Clactonian flint tool industry develop at sites such as Barnfield Pit in Kent. The period had produced a rich and widespread distribution of sites by Palaeolithic standards, although uncertainty over the relationship between the Clactonian and Acheulean industries is still unresolved.

This period saw also Levallois flint tools introduced, possibly by humans arriving from Africa. Finds from Swanscombe and Botany Pit in Purfleet support Levallois technology being a European rather than African introduction however. The more advanced flint technology permitted more efficient hunting and therefore made Britain a more worthwhile place to remain until the following period of cooling Wolstonian Stage, 352,000–130,000 years ago).

However, there is little evidence of human occupation during the subsequent Ipswichian interglacial between around 130,000 and 110,000 years ago. Meltwaters from the previous glaciation cut Britain off from the continent for the first time during this period which may explain the lack of activity. Overall, there appears to have been a gradual decline in population between the Hoxnian Stage and this time suggesting that the absence of humans in the archaeological record here was the result of gradual depopulation.


[edit] Middle Palaeolithic
(from around 180,000 to 40,000 years ago)

From 180 to 60 kya there is no evidence of human occupation in Britain. From 60 to 40 kya Britain was grass land with giant deer and horse, with woolly mammoths, rhino and carnivores. Neanderthal man had arrived in Britain by around 40,000 years ago."

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Lox
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 05:48 PM

Art - no worries.

BB

I like the direction you are taking this thread.

But I think you may be wrong to argue that EL's ancestors replaced the neanderthals.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 08:05 PM

Everyone else's replaced his?

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 07:32 AM

31,181 names on the petition.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Bra
From: Stu
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 08:10 AM

"Immigrant! Your forebearers came in and displaced the resident Neanderthal population!"

You've obviously never met my family : )

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Mississippi Saxaphone
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 10:50 AM

Joanna Lumley is prepared to give back her passport and become an Indian national if the veteran soldiers lose their battle to stay in Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 10:54 AM

I make no judgement about anyone's ancestors- but if you claim to be anti-immigrant, be sure you evolved where you are living, or you need to remove yourself.

I stated my position re the Gurkhas early on: it has not changed.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: sapper82
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 11:20 AM

Oh dear Elliot. you've just proven you have never been in the forces.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: sapper82
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 11:40 AM

Damn! Rose to the bait again!
I really do think that Eliot is a trolling shit and that we ought to just ignore the turd!

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Mississippi Saxaphone
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 11:45 AM

BTW, I've signed the petition.

Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 07:49 PM

100