Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series

Subject: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: GUEST,Cori
Date: 08 Oct 23 - 11:22 PM

Can anyone identify the tune which starts at 38:14? Thanks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdtDUiZ5RUQ&list=PLofKYC6TXgl1xzFZA9y3ouPvLaeBPp3J-&index=10

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Oct 23 - 02:10 AM

Garyowen

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: GUEST,Cori
Date: 09 Oct 23 - 03:37 AM

Thanks, I actually tried playing Garryowen and didn't think they were exactly the same but found an American Civil War version and you're right.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 16 Oct 23 - 05:07 PM

With a shout out to my 5g grandmother, Daniel's sister, Sarah. That branch of the tree is Cornish & Welsh.

The show was highly fictionalized with very little historical accuracy. [wiki]

That said, according to Hoyle, Garryowen is for the lyrics. A period fife tune “might” be Auld Bessie, pushing it back to a more plausible c.1780.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: GUEST,Cori
Date: 16 Oct 23 - 10:44 PM

The second season of Daniel Boone should be 1776, though they strayed from that timeline wildly, using events as late as 1807. I don't know where Rebecca Boone's father came from in real life, but in the show he came directly from Ireland and would be familiar with Irish music. I read that "Garryowen" went back to the early 1680s. Is that wrong?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 23 - 01:45 AM

It's not useful to obsess about 'authenticity' of the music. I very much doubt anyone going for an "auld Oitish tune, from Ireland' would come up with Gary open, that one is a dolly American obsession after Custer and all that. 'I dreamt that I dwelt in marble halls' you asked after in another post is from the 1843 opera 'the Bohemian girl' by Balfe.That doesn't fit the timeliness very well. But does it matter?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 23 - 03:37 AM

I will do that again without typos and silly interference from the spellchecker:

It's not useful to obsess about 'authenticity' of the music played in a series like that. I very much doubt anyone going for 'an auld Oirish tune, from Ireland' would have come up with Garryowen. That one is a wholly American obsession in the wake of Custer and all that.

'I dreamt that I dwelt in marble halls' you asked after in another post is from the 1843 opera 'the Bohemian girl' by Balfe. That doesn't fit the timeline very well. But does it matter?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 17 Oct 23 - 05:08 AM

Wires & lights in a box

Rebecca Ann (Bryan) Boone at Findagrave.

I think she had a Danish grandmother but most everybody else had been in the colonies for a generation or three. There is/was much confusion about the dates of Joseph Bryan Sr.'s two wives. Best guess for the mother is - Alice “Aylee” (Linville) Bryan. The Boone side was from Bradninch, Devon & the Morgans from Mold, Flintshire.

As for the song, pick your Garryowen thread but, typically c.1770-80 lyrics to the tune of Auld Bessie; the latter not much older by the current sources.

Later American: After Dibdin's Harlequin Amulet, Latour &c &c Gary Owen, the instrumental, was popular country dance for decades on. Someone like George A. Custer would have been hearing the music since his grade school cotillion.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: GUEST,Cori
Date: 18 Oct 23 - 03:41 AM

Phil d'Conch, hi. I have some connections with Daniel Boone. My father was a Shields and someone in the Shields family married one of Daniel Boone's children but records are incomplete and we don't know who. John Shields, the gunsmith of the Lewis and Clark expedition, my great-great-great-great uncle, was hunting buddies with Daniel Boone after returning. I have been to the Boone home and grave in Missouri, where it is believed Daniel is still buried, despite attempts to disinter him and bring him to Kentucky.

The TV show has Daniel's wife's name correct as Rebecca Bryan, but they named her father Timothy Patrick Bryan, not Joseph. He was played by John McIntire of Wagon Train fame, as a wandering ne'er-do-well who had left the family. By the time he returned, his wife had died and Rebecca had emigrated to America, where he eventually caught up with her.

Stilly River Sage, I never said that the TV show didn't play fast and loose with history. It is not even correct within its own alternate universe. For instance, Alexander Hamilton is dead in Season 2, episode 7, "The Aaron Burr Story," although that didn't happen until 1804, but is mentioned as being alive in Season 2, episode 22, "The Fifth Man," so either they traveled forward in time and then back or someone couldn't even keep things straight within the same season let alone the entire series.

I am particularly interested in the music and am keeping track of it here. https://moviechat.org/tt0057742/Daniel-Boone/64ec3c06253740466dfa77a4/Music-Used-on-the-Series?reply=652f8a6eca1d095d0bb7cbc0&an If I really feel like maybe I'll do a rundown every two seasons, listing the tunes used in chronological order.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 18 Oct 23 - 06:43 AM

More discontinuity fwiw: Grandpa Bryant first introduces the piece as "marching music." That would be the post-1800, upper-crusty, Jane Austin Regency dance Gary Owen mentioned above. 20th Century sound library stock to go with a nonfunctional prop flute one imagines.

Director George Marshall was doing Hollywood back when it was still Burbank... Destry Rides Again!?!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 19 Oct 23 - 12:05 AM

Whelp, I now have eleventeen more spellings of Garryowen to keep tabs on. Gee... thanks guys!

Upside is, we can move ol' Grandpa Bryant's Irish “marching music' to at least 1798 & America to 1813. Nonfiction bits better here methinks: Help: Garryowen.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: GUEST,Cori
Date: 19 Oct 23 - 03:43 AM

A couple of sources online say "Garryowen" can be traced back to the early 1680s but I found one that said the early 1860s. Could 1680s have just been a transposition of 1860s?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 19 Oct 23 - 06:06 AM

Saw something like that at tunearch.org. Needs a careful read. Bold type added:

“Military use of "Garryowen" as a march tune was quite early. The melody was the designated regimental march of the Royal Irish Regiment, organized in 1684 from Irish pikemen and musketeers by the Earl of Granard to fight for King William or Orange in the Williamite Wars (although its adoption may not date from that era).”

We've worked that back to 1798 Limerick, so far. The lyrics seem a little pegged to their times to be all that old. The tune could be another story.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: Rex
Date: 16 Oct 23 - 12:58 PM

Earlier references might be found by looking for Her Majesty's Fifth Irish Lancers.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: Rex
Date: 18 Oct 23 - 12:08 PM

I had in my notes somewhere that an officer was at an inn in Cincinnati in the year 1824. Music was played and he noted one tune was Garryowen. This is the earliest reference I have found to the tune in the U.S. I am ashamed to admit I cannot find my notes on this. Nor can I find any such reference online. But perhaps this scanty bit may lead someone to find more.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: Rex
Date: 19 Oct 23 - 04:18 PM

Grateful thanks go to Lighter and Phil d'Conch for solid sources for Garryowen in the U.S. I still have not found my reference to a Cincinnati tavern but remember a Capt. Foster and 1824...

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Oct 23 - 10:19 AM

The second season of Daniel Boone should be 1776, though they strayed from that timeline wildly, using events as late as 1807.

Looking to a 1960's commercial family-targeted American television program for historical verisimilitude is not rational. Daniel Boone, 1964-1970.

Look at the "Goofs" section on IMDb for just a few of those.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: Lighter
Date: 11 Oct 23 - 04:21 PM

If the show is set before the Revolution, there's very little chance, if any, that the tune was then known on the western frontier.

First time in print: 1785, in a simpler form than nowadays.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: Lighter
Date: 12 Oct 23 - 12:18 PM

IIRC, the show was set around 1770.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Oct 23 - 07:32 AM

I don't believe the words ever appeared in print in connection with "Auld Bessy," which isn't quite the familiar version of "Garryowen,"
though it's clearly the "same."

https://tunearch.org/wiki/Auld_Bessy

Maximum info on "Garryowen":

https://tunearch.org/wiki/Garryowen

I agree that detailed authenticity in a movie or TV fiction is a vain expectation.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Oct 23 - 04:13 PM

In the U.S.:

Daily National Intelligencer (Washington, D. C.) (Dec. 6, 1823), p. 2:

[In Washington, D.C.]: “Sandie succeeded…[with] ‘Roslin Castle’ and ‘Flowers of Edinboro’….Corny followed with ‘Paddy Carey’ and ‘Garry Owen.’”

Truth Teller (N.Y.C.) (Sept. 9, 1826), p. 4: "Air - Garryowen."

U.K. newspapers start mentioning the tune around 1810.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Oct 23 - 07:53 AM

J. Ferrar, "The History of Limerick" (1787), p. 122:

"Lamps were first put up in the streets of Limerick at the sole expence of Alderman Thomas Rose, in 1696." So any earlier date for the lyrics is out.

Interestingly, this highly detailed, 492-page chronicle doesn't mention either the song or the tune.

I haven't found any mention of the song specifically before 1822.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: leeneia
Date: 12 Oct 23 - 12:16 PM

D. Boone - 1734 to 1820

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Irish Tune from Daniel Boone Series
From: Thompson
Date: 11 Oct 23 - 04:02 PM

Garryowen, by the way, is a place in Limerick in the west of Ireland, and an "up and over" throw in rugby is named after the team there. The name means Eoin's Garden.