BS: Hollantide Greetings

Subject: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 09:37 AM

To all our friends on the 'Cat :

Love, Blessings and Greetings of Hollantide (Samhain ; Hallowe'en) to you all.

So mote it be.

Erica and Bryn

(Pagan gods-botherers par excellence, at your service)

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 09:49 AM

Phew... Can I hide from the righteous here for a bit?

Hollantide Bryn? Care to enlighten me as to where that term derives from?

Otherwise I hope all have a lovely Feast of the Dead - telling ghostly folk-tales, singing supernatural ballads, communing with the ancestors or performing whatever manner of observation you choose..

xxx

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 09:56 AM

How bout like this?

Soulcaking

As I recently posted above the line, I will be in Antrobus following the Soulcakers tomorrow night. As it is Halloween, it tickles me that I will be accompanied by someone named Casper. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 10:07 AM

Roy Clinging's LT article about Cheshire Soulcaking

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 10:19 AM

Lovely RuthA, thanks for that!

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 10:23 AM

...and the next time some English person tells you that Trick-or-treating is an American invention and has nothing to do with British traditions, you can gently "remind" them about Soulcaking!

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 10:33 AM

As I understand it, Crow Sister (and I am a Cheshireman), "Hollantide" derives from "Hallow", archaic plural Hallowen", ; 'tide' is self-explanatory ; and the pronunciation "Hollantide" from the fact that Cestrians have a unique

vowel system :-).

Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 10:35 AM

Oh yeah, Ronald Hutton goes into the poor begging food 'for the dead' at All Hallow's Eve.

Also, a friend of mine who grew up in Scotland, remembers hollowing out *Turnips* at Hallowe'en, and putting a candle in them. The kids would hold them and keep their hands warm. By the end of the night the candle had cooked the turnip, and they'd eat it :)

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 10:56 AM

Happy All Saints Day, everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 11:19 AM

I find difficulty reconciling myself to the term Pagan, being apparently applied to some specific form of worship, or belief.
All my life I have understood a pagan to be one who doesn't believe in the Christian God.
Thus all other religions, be they Hindu Moslem, Buddhist or whatever, are all by that definition, pagans.
So I ask, out of curiosity, are there both pagans, and Pagans?
I have heard self proclaimed pagan friends say, "May the goddess be with you", which also puzzles me, as I thought there were more than one pagan deity. Which goddess?

Curiously

JM

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 11:32 AM

John, yes I would say there are 'pagans' and 'Pagans'.

I think of myself as pagan with a small p, much in the same way I might equally identify with being christian with a small c. Ie: my usage is more 'descriptive' of a general approach to appreciating nature than any formal religious practice. But my own small p usage, is itself descended from the formal adoption of the term in modern times, by religous Pagans.

The term 'pagan' initially was a derogatory one, meaning non-Christian peasant or similar. But it has been 'retrieved' so to speak in modern times, and now in common usage when capitalised refers to a group of relatively formal nature reverencing religions - which while not nevessarily being identical to pre-Christian religion - nevertheless draw their inspiration from what we may know of them.

"The Goddess", in neo-Pagan theology would more or less equate with 'Mother Earth', or Lovelock's concept of Gaia. In Wiccan terms She would be described as 'The Lady', wherein the various different expressions of feminine deity world-over, are understood to reside within a triplicity, which is at the same time One.

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 11:40 AM

There is only one Goddess, JM, albeit She is worshipped - honoured, if you prefer - under many different names.

In England, She might be Andrasta - the Hare Goddess - becaus in these Islands the Hare is the shape-shifter.

In Wales, She might be ArianRhod - the Silver Wheel (and the connections with the Moon are, it is thought, patent) ; In Ireland (and I am not sure of my ground, here !) She might be Eriu.

Please do not misunderstand that which I write next : some chritians use the term 'pagan' - with or without a capital - to describe those who do not believe in the god of the christians. However : all gods are one god - there can be but

one Creator, and the honouring of the said Creator is up to the individual.

May I refer you, gently, to the previous thread "the god thread to end all god threads". I posted "worship your gods in your own way. Should your way be different from mine, who am I to criticise ?".

If you, JM, wish to use the term 'pagan' to denote those who, like me, do not worship the god of the christians ; then, speaking only for myself, I do not have a problem with this.

There are those - and I am sure you are not one of these - who will use the term 'pagan' as a pejorative. Much we care.

May She who was, is, and shall be, smile ever on you, and on those whom you love. So Mote it Be.

Kindest regards, Bryn

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 11:52 AM

The best I could come up with: Soul Cake Song

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:08 PM

Well Bryn, that sort of clears it up a bit for me, although it does all sound a bit Arthurian.
Although I am an agnostic from way back, and firmly believe there are no gods, I would never derogate anyone' belief.
I mean, who am I to say, that the moon isn't made of green cheese?

JM :)

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:31 PM

Of course the Moon (note the CAPITAL !) is made of green cheese.

Didn't Wallace and Gromit prove this ??

PS. Your Mummy might not like me saying this - but - the Doctor doesn't bring babies in his Case,

(Sharp intake of breath.)

Babies are found

(oh dear I don't know whether England will ever forgive me - all this time I have been saying

GRIT YOUR TEETH AND THINK OF THE EMPIRE)

babies are found under goosebery bushes.

Oh, the shame. My mummy said I couldn't ever tell ANYONE about this.

I'll die and I'll go to Hell won't I

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 01:01 PM

Do Pagans have a hell? Sounds a bit Christian to me :)

JM


Babies are delivered by storks BTW

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 02:02 PM

A Question for practicing Pagans:

How do you address your dead loved-ones on Samhain?
I mean what kind of things, or observances (I don't mean fully fledged magical ritual) would you do in keeping with the spirit of the season?

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 02:12 PM

Crowsister, that's hilarious.

I think the Watersons have made a slightly more credible job of it:

Watersons souling songs

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: gnu
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 02:12 PM

Giok... I don't think they do... I don't think the believe in evil... nor practice it. Dunno really.

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: GUEST,Suibhne (Astray)
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 02:20 PM

Bleedin' hell, CS - give us fair warning, eh??? Yeah, we love Frost & Fire too, but the source has to be the singular genius of Jack Langstaff who inspired our own renderings over the years. Check out the latest from last year, it's the first track at:

http://www.myspace.com/venereumarvum

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 02:20 PM

Ahh, a scene from a wonderful old film here. Captivating early effects depicting the Mediaeval Church's hysterical fantasies of diabolism: Haxan.
Rather more pertinent to those with an interest in folklore of our collective cultural nightmares than paganism in particular perhaps, but fascinating nonetheless.

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 02:26 PM

Sorry folks - didn't mean to scare you (..too much).

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 11:58 PM

Great links, folks! Well, except for that one...Sting doing that song is as bad as Dylan doing Christmas songs, imo!:-)

Years ago, I wrote an op/ed piece about paganism which garnered a lot of comments in the wilds of WY. It was lost on an old computer, though I think I have a hard copy. Some day, maybe I will transcribe it. If memory serves me right, the original meaning of "pagan" was a rural dweller and, usually, someone who believed in the old ways, eschewing cities and new religions, so to speak.

Mitakuye Oyasin (we are all related)

Thanks for explaining the Hollanside, Bryn and thanks for the thread.

In Peace Profound,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 04:30 AM

Thanks for the explanation of Hollanside, Bryn. Did Geoff or Peter ever get in touch btw?

Now maybe you could explain something else for us - Why 'So mote it be'? What does mote mean and what it are you refering to? Is it an archaic or arcane phrase - Like the 'thees, thous and thys'in the old Christian liturgies? If so - why not update it so everyone can get in on the act?

Cheers and have a good celebration, whatever it is.

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 04:31 AM

Whoops - Hollanside = Hollantide! Hollanside sounds more like something from a sea shanty:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 08:34 AM

I'm staying away from other threads that discuss religion and politics, but this might be a good place to share a conversation I had with Micca on the drive from my place to Bat Goddess and Curmudgeon's. He's an active, practicing Wiccan, and I was sharing how I didn't really subscribe to any "ism", but believe that "IT" is too big to categorize. I feel most at home in the woods and in nature. Micca said "Of course! You're a hedge witch!"

I still don't believe in categorizing myself, but a light went on when he said that. It probably explains why I grieve when I pass the garish, plastic Halloween displays with grinning, goofy ghosts and "witches" with pointy hats and purple stockings...
Why don't they just look at the bones of the trees that are newly revealed in the dimming light?

So, thanks, Micca, and blessings to all as the days grow shorter and we gather closer to the fire inside.

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 11:37 AM

Lovely music from you & Rachel as ever SO'P, ta.

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 07:37 PM

Anyone remembering their dead tonight?

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 07:44 PM

Not traditional, but I love this seasonally pertinent song, well in accordance with the nightmare side of things.
Fab lyrics: Lullabye

The spiderman is having me for dinner tonight...

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 11:05 PM

Why don't they, indeed, Animaterra. May I offer one of my fav. bones of trees and the two following pix...not scary, at all, but I suppose with the right story on a dark night...there might be goosebumps on the kids.:-)

I must've been born a hedge witch, though I don't really label myself much of anything except Rosicrucian; when I was about five I asked my dad why people thought they had to go in buildings to talk to god...why didn't they just go out in the forest.

Here's to welcoming the introspection of the dark time and the quiet germination of all to come.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Hollantide Greetings
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 01 Nov 09 - 08:20 AM

Wonderful photo, Kat!
I agree, I don't label myself anything (esp. after I googled "hedge witch" and found it to be as much as an "ism" as anything else!). But last night's gale was wild and wonderful and today the peaceful blue sky shines through bare trees and I'm remembering my beloved departed- they're not gone, just in the next room.
Blessings to all!