BS: Muslim prejudice

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 08:59 AM

"I detest lies and liars Lox."
Don't be so hard on yourself Keith!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 10:49 AM

What a cheap comment, especially from you Jim.

If I were the worlds greatest liar, I would not need to stray from the truth to show that there is an over-representation.

But you have no truthful way to deny it.

You still do, just because it offends your prejudice and preconceptions to accept the fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 11:37 AM

Keith,
You appear to reserve the right to call others 'liar' yet throw your rattle out of the pram when the compliment is returned.
You continue to paint a revoltingly distorted picture of British Pakistanis, hiding behind an unanswerable out-of-context question in order to do so, as has been pointed out to you from early in this debate.
You distort your own evidence to make it appear to back up your revolting image.
On a thread dealing with the persecution of homosexuals you have described Africans and immigrants as disease carriers, and questioned that the latter receive medical attention, should they need it - then totally deny you have suggested it, even though the evidence is freely available in your first dozen postings on the 'death for homosexuality' thread.
Having had a quick peep through past threads of yours, particularly the 'Are there too many immgarants" one you started, it is plain that you have an agenda.
You have lied and distorted and appear not to possess the intelligence to cover your own tracks.
Head between the knees - deep breaths....
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 01:24 PM

I don't give monkeys if Keith calls me a Liar.

He still hasn't grasped the concept that the one who provides the hypothesis bears the responsibility of providing evidence.

If he can't provide the evidence then his hypothesis is groundless.

If, in addition to this, there is unbviased evidence that contradicts his hypothesis, then he looks like he is either biased himself or a moron.

There is plenty of evidence to support both hypotheses.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 02:35 PM

Lox and Jim.
Your position was that there is NO over-representation.
You have found no evidence to support you, because there is none.
A mountain of evidence has been supplied that there is an over-representation.

BUT YOU STILL THINK YOU ARE RIGHT!
WHY?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 03:00 PM

Jim there has never been a thread with the title you put in quotes.
Mistake or another lie Jim.

I did start one "UK immigration too high"

here is my OP.

Back on the BNP thread there was talk of dicussing immigration rather than just BNP.

I think we all know what BNP stand for, so let's leave them out of it.

Let's ignore trolling guests who will try to cause friction.

I think that immigration levels in recent years give cause for legitimate concerns. Does anyone else have any concerns (excluding, please, racial ones)?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 03:03 PM

"Your position was that there is NO over-representation."
No it wasn't, the point was nobody here is in the position to judge what and why without details we have not been given - which you don't have or you would have produced them long ago.
Your point was that grooming and raping was an exclusively Pakistani crime seems to have galloped off into the sunset - can we now accept that this is a load of bollocks?
Your 'city and town wide' now seems to have been reduced to 'town' only - can we also accept that this was a fabrication on your part?
Also mysteriously disapeared is you hurt "how dare you call me a liar sir" tone - has that been submerged by the backwash of your own porkies?
You have used your 'women as meat' phrase around fifteen times on this thread; despite the fact that this attittude to women is deeply ingrained in British society and can be encountered daily in our tabloid press, strip joints, the internet... wherever the male animal lurks - yet you insist on making it a Pakistani crime - perhaps because they are not as we?
So far your 'mountain of evidence' has been found to be riddled with man-made caverns.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 04:13 PM

I can think of around a dozen derogatory terms in the English language for a promiscuous woman - slag, slapper, whore, boot, knocking piece, snail.... etc, yet I can't think of one for her male counterpart - can anyone help?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 04:21 PM

You call me liar, but you can not put up a single lie.
What does that make you?
I can put up your lies, the latest being Lox who said I put words into Emma's mouth and made up things she did not say.
Lies.

It has not been said that women were easy meat.
It has been said that children were easy meat, compared to women.

I think there is an over representation of BPs, in on-street grooming by groups, at least in the towns and cities of Yorkshire, Lancashire, Derbyshire, Greater Manchester and the Midlands.

You deny it.

Evidence that in those towns and cities it is mainly done by BPs.

Jack Straw spoke about his own personal experience and contact with victims.
The Dando Institue report on On-Street Grooming By Gangs, that has resulted in at least two follow up studies of On-Street Grooming By Gangs, that found 95% BP perpetrators.
Ann Cryer said she had the same experience in her constituency.
Hilary Wilmer with her hundreds of cases, all BPs.
She corroborates all the previous.
Senior police officers, serving and retired.
Shafiq, Allibhai-Brown and Ahmed all tell the same story from BP perspective, and it corroborates all that has gone before.
Hindu and Sikh organisation who report hundreds of their girls have been victims too.
Perpetrators, all BPs

Your evidence of non BP involvement.
Er,......NONE.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:07 PM

What the **** are these
Edited text, false identity, refuting the black-and-white fact that you think emigrants are disease carriers who should be deprived of medical treatment - Plain to everybody but you.
"Evidence that in those towns and cities it is mainly done by BPs."
Back to Towns and cities now - we've laid that one to bed ages ago WE HAVE NO IDEA OF THE AREA COVERED AND THE NUMBERS INVOLVED - you me Jack Straw (in his edited or unedited text)
Piss off Keith
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:19 PM

I think there is an over representation of BPs, in on-street grooming by groups, at least in the towns and cities of Yorkshire, Lancashire, Derbyshire, Greater Manchester and the Midlands.

You deny it.

There is a mountain of evidence FOR an over-representaion.
There is non against it.

What is your case?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST,lively
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:27 PM

When I entered this bare-knuckle fight, it was with anxiety. I persisted with anxiety, because I think it matters that people notice the stories of these girls currently being abused.

I'm still unconvinced that the political left are less interested in the abuse of these young women, than they are in an ideological position in opposition to racism.

Jim, Lox etc. I think you are good people, but I'm going to have to step out of this discussion for personal reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:45 PM

Duh ...

Yeah thats right Keith ...

... I saw the data and I thought I'd form a hypothesis concerning which specific demographic ISN'T represented.

What a ridiculous notion!

You don't need a satirist to lampoon you, you are your own parody.

YOUR hypothesis is unsupported. It is based on perceived cultural distinctions, in turn based on race.

Are you ready to spend aanother month defending it?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 01:12 AM

No I am not Lox.
There is overwhelming evidence for an over-representation.
Against it there is none, but you still deny.

That is not rational, just ideological, and I leave you to it.

I have reported an explanation for the over-representation.
It has nothing to do with me, and no other has emerged.

Why do you keep on about it?
You claim there is nothing to explain!

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 04:26 AM

"I think it matters that people notice the stories of these girls currently being abused."
I could not agree more Lively, but I think it totally unacceptable that anybody should cynically use the fate of these girls to let forth a torrent of bilious hate against an immigrant community that is largely regarded as law-abiding, innoffensive and industrious, even to the extent of presenting distorted 'facts'.
Keith has a track record on race - which he continues to lie about, despite the fact that it is there for all to see.
That he is not the sharpest knife in the box is beyond question; he was even stupid enough to plant a snide attack on people opposing his line on a thread containing one of his more disgusting racist suggestions.
It does not help these girls, the communities under attack or Britain's reputation as a whole, to make racist points on the backs of raped children - that is as low as I've ever seen anyone sink.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 04:34 AM

There has been no "bilious hate" from anyone on this thread.
All you have is lies.
No evidence.

There is an over-representation.
I have provided overwhelming evidence.
Your response is a knee jerk denial, backed up only by lies.
Not a scrap of evidence.

You would rather put out your own eyes than see the evidence that you are wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 05:18 AM

I started a thread about child slavery recently as I was curious to find out where I could buy fair trade clothing from developing countries and do something about it.

Guess who showed interest and who didn't .....


Keith, Ake etc have not suggested one possible solution to the problems of child abuse or the trafficking of minors and non minors.

Ake came on here to make some irrelevant crowing point about the human rights act, and keith jumped in to suppport him.

Their concern is not with children or other victims of sex slavery, but with Moslems and other minorities.


The thread title is not about child exploitation, but about moslem prejudice.

In the context of that subject, Keith is trying to prove that Pakistanis are predisposed to rape and only restrain themselves from committing it with great willpower.


If he were serious about the kids, he would be talking about solutions to that probllem and wouldn't have spent the last two months trying to prove his racist hypothesis.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 05:42 AM

Jim Carroll did not show up on your thread Lox.
Neither did Cobra, or Steve, or Stringsinger.
999 did though.

My partner's daughter worked with Muslim street children in Senegal.
She maintains contact with the school, and we all support it through her.

The street grooming story was a major news event.
It got picked up here, as you would expect.
I got drawn in, after you did Lox.

There is an over-representation.
I have provided overwhelming evidence.
Your response is a knee jerk denial, backed up only by lies.
Not a scrap of evidence.

You would rather put out your own eyes than see the evidence that you are wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 05:58 AM

"All you have is lies."
All I have is the evidence of my eyes which I have brought to your attention and you continue to ignore.
This is a little like dealing with a retarded child - sorry, I'm not qualified for this.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 06:32 AM

Yeah Keith,

I got drawn in by the title which was about Moslemn Prejudice.

I anticipated that the subject would be Moslem Prejudice.

Guess what - it was about Moslem Prejudice.


Various excuses were given to justify Moslem Prejudice.


I decided to scrutinize them.


You were drawn into the same thread with the same title with the same subject.


You came on to support more than one of the excuses for moslem prejudice.

Your particular favourite is the view that Pakistanis are closet Paedos

You have been fighting your corner to defend this idea for two months.


If your concern was child welfare, you would be involved on child welfare threads.


Jim, etc are not on here selling lies about Moslems or Pakistanis.

They have exposed problems with these lies though.

But you don't care.

You are the main champion of Moslem prejudice on this thread.

Hurray for Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 06:36 AM

How do your eyes make you so certain that there is no over-representation?
Do you see large numbers of others engaged in on-street grooming?

No, it is your prejudice and preconceptions that stop you seeing the truth.

IT CAN'T BE TRUE.
IT JUST CAN'T!
AND YOU MUST BE A RACIST!

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 07:00 AM

uh oh ...

... keiths turned into a malfunctioning stepford wife!

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 07:01 AM

Lox, you started discussing street grooming two days before I switched from the original discussion.
How does that make me a bad person?

Me being a bad person is the start and finish of your case.

There is an over-representation.
I have provided overwhelming evidence.
Your response is a knee jerk denial, backed up only by lies.
Not a scrap of evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 07:05 AM

"Lox, you started discussing street grooming two days before I switched from the original discussion."

What are you on about?

We both got drawn into the same discussion.


I got involved because it is racist slander.

You got involved to prop up that racial slander.


The person who initiated it is sitting on the special bus waving his little flag for his hero (you).


You joined this topic to support it.

Your choice ...

... still .... for two months!

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 07:20 AM

Because the over-representation is true Lox.
That is not my fault.
I wish it were not true.
There is an over-representation and denying it will not make it go away.
Neither will calling me racist, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 08:11 AM

"There is an over-representation and denying it will not make it go away."

There might be, but then there might also be brussels sprouts growing in the queens ears.

You and I have no evidence of either.

You just have more allegations than me.

If you went to an edl meting you would find hundreds more allegations saying the same thing.

You could waalk the length and breadth of the land and you would find nobody saying "I allege that Pakistanis are not overrepresented in street grooming"

Because it would be an absurd thing to go round cclaiming something isn't true when no evidence has been presented to confirm the suggestion that it is true.


having more aallegations than me does not furnisgh you with a "mountain of evidence", just with a mountain of allegations.


Your hypothesis has no evidence to support it.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 08:44 AM

Lox, this abuse has been going on for years.
If there were no over-representation, only a small minority of perpetrators would be BPs.

You can find no evidence of significant numbers of non BPs doing it.
There is none.
There are mountains of evidence that BPs are the overwhelming majority of offenders.

There is a massive over-representation.
Sorry if it offends you.
I do not like it either.
Why keep denying it?

IT CAN'T BE TRUE!
IT JUST CAN'T.
YOU MUST BE A RACIST!

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 08:48 AM

"There are mountains of evidence that BPs are the overwhelming majority of offenders."


Where?

The opinions of politicians?

The hunches of police officers?

The reports from Helen Wilmer about allegations?


What else have you got Keith ... come on give us the evidence or shut up.


Bear in mind that Barnardos, the Dando instutute and Derby safe and sound all give evidence that Opposes your position explicitly.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 09:08 AM

This is a little like dealing with a retarded child -

No, its a LOT like it, a fact that has been obvious since about 21 January or thereabouts.

Yet there are 1600 posts since then.

In God's name, WHY???

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 09:11 AM

"Bear in mind that Barnardos, the Dando instutute and Derby safe and sound all give evidence that Opposes your position explicitly"

Not true Lox .
And, Narey of Barnados stated that there was an over-representation.

Evidence that in those towns and cities it is mainly done by BPs.

Jack Straw spoke about his own personal experience and contact with victims.
The Dando Institue report on On-Street Grooming By Gangs, that has resulted in at least two follow up studies of On-Street Grooming By Gangs, that found 95% BP perpetrators.
Ann Cryer said she had the same experience in her constituency.
Hilary Wilmer with her hundreds of cases, all BPs.
She corroborates all the previous.
Senior police officers, serving and retired.
Shafiq, Allibhai-Brown and Ahmed all tell the same story from BP perspective, and it corroborates all that has gone before.
Hindu and Sikh organisation who report hundreds of their girls have been victims too.
Perpetrators, all BPs

Your evidence of non BP involvement.
Er,......NONE.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 10:12 AM

Keith it isn't evidence.

It isn't even unsworn testimony.

It is reports of allegations.

The problem here is that you don't know the difference - or lie to yourself about it.

One or the other, it doesn't matter.

You still have no evidence.

You are like a Banker creating derivatives based on a sub prime security.

It all looks very goood as long as the security is real, but it isn't.

It looks real, but when the debt is called in, or in your case when the evidence is checked, it all falls down.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Stringsinger
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 12:44 PM

"Baroness Warsi, co-chairman of the Tory Party, will warn against dividing Muslims into moderates and extremists."

Why not also warn against dividing Christians, Jews, Buddhists, and Name your religion here ___________into moderates and extremists?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 02:42 PM

Lox, it is evidence, however much you deny it.
Wilmer's victims for instance.
Hundreds of them, like Emma, telling what was done to them and by whom.
You tried to undermine Emma's testimony, and you refuse to accept what all these raped children say.
I call it evidence, not allegations.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 05:11 PM

"You tried to undermine Emma's testimony, and you refuse to accept what all these raped children say."

No keith,

I read it and actually paid attention to what she said. It was very illuminating.

It stands as an account of her experience and I find the things she went through shocking and upsetting.

Her experience is a piece of the jigsaw that will allow us to get a clearer picture of what has being going on.

Her cultural analysis of Pakistani psychology on the other hand is not evidence, it is the opinion of a non psychologist whose experience of Pakistanis is limited to trauma suffered att the hands of a violent organized trafficking and prostitution gang.


As for "all these raped children" - where is their testimony keith? When are you ging to provide it? ... you've heard it exists, but thats all. You have heard about it. You don't know what 'it' actually is, or even if it exists at all.

So your imagination is filling in the gaps.

So that you can support your racist hypothesis.


How much longer Keith?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Mar 11 - 01:07 AM

Hilary Wilmer says of her hundreds of victims, that all the perpetrators are BPs.
"Reading the terrible accounts given to CROP by parents and daughters..."

The stories brought to CROP by heartbroken parents are individual, but certain generalisations can be made. "What parents tend to notice at first is that their child is acting differently â€" she becomes secretive, aggressive, rebellious, staying out late or disappearing overnight.




"At the beginning we worked on the assumption that girls were groomed by individual pimps, but later discovered widespread pimping networks, much like international people trafficking gangs. Shopping malls, games arcades, places around takeaways and parks are common meeting places.




"The girl (who's typically aged between 13 and 16, but can be only 11 or 12) may meet the man alone, or be introduced by a friend who already knows him. He is usually quite a lot older and good looking, well-dressed and may well have a fast car. He'll meet her regularly, shower her with gifts, give her drink and maybe also drugs, take her for rides, tell her how special she is. He may have sex with her, but not at first, and he will discourage her from telling her parents about him because "they wouldn't understand".




"At some point further down the line he will take her to a flat or down an alley and tell her that in return for all the things he has done for her, it's payback time and she has to do something for him. She will then probably be gang raped. She will be confused, weak, think she's in love with the pimp, but also feel ashamed and guilty. She goes home and takes it out on her family and also drops out of education."




The story of an individual girl's ordeal comes to light either after she has some sort of breakdown or her parents find enough clues to piece some of the story together, confront their child and go to the police. Girls' reluctance to turn to their families earlier on in this desperate chain of events is commonly attributed to fear â€" threats of serious harm to parents, siblings and home (as well as drug or alcohol dependence) are used to keep the girl in line.




Reading the terrible accounts given to CROP by parents and daughters, it's clear that the men involved brainwash girls who are still


physically, psychologically and legally children into believing they have no choice but to go on being regularly and systematically raped by men who pay her "boyfriend".




After the truth comes to light, difficulty in providing evidence is why so few men have been convicted of rape or sexual exploitation. Usually a man will either flatly deny sex happened, or say "she agreed to it, and told me she was 17".




CROP hosts twice-yearly networking days, where parents can meet and share their experiences. A common tale is that social workers and other agencies assume that these crimes only happen with children from dysfunctional families. "Not true," says Hilary. "I've seen it happen in every kind of family you can think of."




Securing a prosecution is a near-impossible task, it seems, and some police forces spend little effort on time-consuming specialist sexual exploitation investigations. But successes for CROP include the tightening of legislation to make grooming an offence carrying a sentence of up to 14 years.

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/features/hilary_s_drive_to_protect_young_people_1_2583232?action=logout

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Mar 11 - 01:12 AM

I need drugs.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Mar 11 - 01:16 AM

Research by the Coalition for the Removal of Pimping (CROP) found girls are drawn in with flattery and the promise of excitement before later being exposed to drugs, alcohol and criminal acts.


Sometimes it is boys of a similar age, even in the same class at school, who are used to make the initial approach with the victim believing they have genuine romantic intentions.


But as the girls become more entangled in the criminal world their control is gradually passed to senior members of the network.


CROP chairwoman Hilary Willmer said: "In some cases this can be a family business, whether that is immediate family or extended family. The girl is approached by a younger member then introduced to an older cousin or brother, then it's payback time.


"If you come out of school and are picked up in a flashy car and given a mobile phone that's glamorous. They are isolated from family and friends until they are completely under the influence of this person who they think is wonderful.


"People always believe it couldn't happen to them but the families we work with are normal and come from right across the spectrum."


The research was unveiled at a CROP conference held in Leeds yesterday attended by victims' parents, police and a Government Minister.


It suggests parents often do not realise the danger until too late while police and social services find it difficult to distinguish between the early stages of grooming and normal teenage courtship behaviour.


The group called for an end to presumptions that things like this only happened to dysfunctional families and argued more specialist police officers were needed to deal with these cases.


One of the victims' mothers, who asked not to be named, said her daughter was 13 when she was first picked up by an older man outside her school. She soon began truanting and going missing for increasingly long periods of time.


The girl started shoplifting and experimenting with a variety of illegal drugs, eventually overdosing. At the age of 16, she left home and ended up living in a flat in London being used as a prostitute.


Her mother said: "These men are still around and doing the same thing. I have seen them where I shop buying cigarettes for kids. That is the thing that really riles me."
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/around-yorkshire/local-stories/yorkshire_schoolgirls_at_risk_from_pimping_gangs_1_2589953

And your case rests on all these young and very young (11years old!) victims of violent gang rape over and over, ARE LYING!

I BELIEVE THEM.
HOW CAN A DECENT PERSON NOT HEAR THEIR CRIES?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Mar 11 - 01:35 AM

999, Again you express exasperation after one of my posts.
I was replying to this.
"As for "all these raped children" - where is their testimony keith? When are you ging to provide it? ... you've heard it exists, but thats all. You have heard about it. You don't know what 'it' actually is, or even if it exists at all."

No one has to read this stuff.
It is unpleasant to think about children being raped.
When someone like Lox denies it is even happening, I feel it is right to provide the evidence that it is.

Why is that so wrong 999?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Mar 11 - 02:05 AM

My apologies, Keith. Please write it off to a lack of drugs. I was just being a wise-ass, and the variant juxtapositions of my posts and yours is simply a factor of chance. If it becomes more than six out of six, I'll go wear sack cloth and when it reaches seven out of seven, ashes.

When next I do show up to say something as senseless as most of the last five million six hundred thousand three hundred and twenty nine written testaments to both the endurance of people with patience and people who are gonna go off their fucking rockers if you two guys keep saying the same thing not realizing that Churchill was correct in his observation that 'a fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject', then and only then will I relent and admit to a dislike of you. I do NOT dislike you at all. Nor do I dislike Lox. I need drugs. If you were me, having read this whole fucking thread, you'd need 'em too.

No offense to both of you. And neither of you either.

I just read what I wrote, and as humour I'd give it 7 on 10. As a prayer, it's priceless, jus' like Master Card. Don't leave home without it.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Mar 11 - 02:46 AM

I wish to say one--maybe two or three last things. Keith has been maliciously attacked on this thread and I don't agree with the attacks. I know him, and he's a good person. I refuse to win an argument at all costs.

There is a perspective we all are missing, imo. IF we are the kind of people we want to be or pretend to be, we must see what we have done to a man whose opinion differs from our own. It brings no one honour to win a gang fight. I feel sordid about my role in this.

Keith, let's quit the thread. There are no winners left here. I am ashamed of myself, and I hope you'll find it in yourself to forgive me.

I have attempted to make humour of a serious situation. Fact is it ain't funny. I no longer know who is right or wrong in the argument. I DO know I ain't right in what I've done. Even if Keith is wrong, or Lox is wrong, I know I am not right. I can be an asshole at times, and I have proven it true on this thread.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Mar 11 - 03:31 AM

And here is the continuing saga of the Thoughts of Chairman Keith, with his picture of everyday British Pakistani life.
Not sure how long I am going to be able to continue doing this; the sheer size (or maybe the nature of the content) is beginning to freeze up my screen.
Jim Carroll

Chapter 6
I have not made my case on statistics, but on the testimony of reputable people whose work brings them into contact with this crime and its pitiful victims. They all say the perpetrators are BPs
The misuse of young childrens' lives by subjecting them to multiple rape.
These people especially target children in the care system.
They are more susceptible to the lure of faked affection.
Orphans. The easiest of easy meat.
hundreds of children, in a large area of Northern England, raped by members of a minority group,
Those who claim that this is mainly a crime of BPs, are the hundreds of children who have been violently gang raped by them.
A large number, many hundreds, of children were groomed and gang raped by BPs in certain northern cities over the last ten years.
It is just that we happened to be discussing this crime, i.e. on-street grooming of children by groups.
A large number, many hundreds, of children were groomed and gang raped by BPs in certain northern cities over the last ten years.
Grooming involves getting close to them.
Many don't, and those in care have no families anyway.
"the tip of the iceberg."
hundreds of families who turned to her, ALL the abusers were BPs.
large number, many hundreds, of children were groomed and gang raped by BPs in certain northern cities over the last ten years.
Hundreds of children alleged they had been groomed and raped by BPs,
those convicted of this (non existent) crime were nearly all BPs.
having their young lives devastated
"on-street grooming", where young girls, spotted outside, including at the school gates, have become targets,....
This would be the anecdotes of many hundreds of groomed and raped children describing their rapists.
Many of the victims were in care,
The only evidence so far produced on street grooming by groups is from the Midlands and the North, and is all BPs
The string of convictions in cities such as Rotherham, Preston, Blackburn, Rochdale and now Derby have more often than not involved Asian men, specifically men of Pakistani origin, and mainly Muslim.
the on-street grooming of girls aged 11 to 16 by groups of men.
victims were typically white girls while 'most central offenders are Pakistani'.
They were criminal gangs of street groomers, pimps and child rapists who happen to all come from the BP community.
The offenders were not viewed as paedophiles but had picked the girls 'because of their malleability'.
It is suggested they go for children because they are easy meat.
The grooming in public places would not look suspicious, especially if teenage boys were used as bait.
The pimping and raping was done behind closed doors.
We have heard the techniques used to discourage the girls from talking, and how difficult it was to get them to stand up in court.
SHE WAS A CHILD VICTIM OF RAPE.
A mountain of evidence has been supplied that there is an over-representation.
I think there is an over representation of BPs, in on-street grooming by groups, at least in the towns and cities of Yorkshire, Lancashire, Derbyshire, Greater Manchester and the Midlands.
There is a mountain of evidence FOR an over-representaion. There is non against it.
this abuse has been going on for years.
"What parents tend to notice at first is that their child is acting differently " she becomes secretive, aggressive, rebellious, staying out late or disappearing overnight.
"At the beginning we worked on the assumption that girls were groomed by individual pimps, but later discovered widespread pimping networks, much like international people trafficking gangs. Shopping malls, games arcades, places around takeaways and parks are common meeting places.
"The girl (who's typically aged between 13 and 16, but can be only 11 or 12) may meet the man alone, or be introduced by a friend who already knows him. He is usually quite a lot older and good looking, well-dressed and may well have a fast car. He'll meet her regularly, shower her with gifts, give her drink and maybe also drugs, take her for rides, tell her how special she is. He may have sex with her, but not at first, and he will discourage her from telling her parents about him because "they wouldn't understand".
"At some point further down the line he will take her to a flat or down an alley and tell her that in return for all the things he has done for her, it's payback time and she has to do something for him. She will then probably be gang raped. She will be confused, weak, think she's in love with the pimp, but also feel ashamed and guilty. She goes home and takes it out on her family and also drops out of education."
The story of an individual girl's ordeal comes to light either after she has some sort of breakdown or her parents find enough clues to piece some of the story together, confront their child and go to the police. Girls' reluctance to turn to their families earlier on in this desperate chain of events is commonly attributed to fear" threats of serious harm to parents, siblings and home (as well as drug or alcohol dependence) are used to keep the girl in line.
Reading the terrible accounts given to CROP by parents and daughters, it's clear that the men involved brainwash girls who are still
physically, psychologically and legally children into believing they have no choice but to go on being regularly and systematically raped by men who pay her "boyfriend".
After the truth comes to light, difficulty in providing evidence is why so few men have been convicted of rape or sexual exploitation. Usually a man will either flatly deny sex happened, or say "she agreed to it, and told me she was 17".
CROP hosts twice-yearly networking days, where parents can meet and share their experiences. A common tale is that social workers and other agencies assume that these crimes only happen with children from dysfunctional families. "Not true," says Hilary. "I've seen it happen in every kind of family you can think of."
Securing a prosecution is a near-impossible task, it seems, and some police forces spend little effort on time-consuming specialist sexual exploitation investigations. But successes for CROP include the tightening of legislation to make grooming an offence carrying a sentence of up to 14 years.
found girls are drawn in with flattery and the promise of excitement before later being exposed to drugs, alcohol and criminal acts.
Sometimes it is boys of a similar age, even in the same class at school, who are used to make the initial approach with the victim believing they have genuine romantic intentions.
But as the girls become more entangled in the criminal world their control is gradually passed to senior members of the network.
CROP chairwoman Hilary Willmer said: "In some cases this can be a family business, whether that is immediate family or extended family. The girl is approached by a younger member then introduced to an older cousin or brother, then it's payback time.
"If you come out of school and are picked up in a flashy car and given a mobile phone that's glamorous. They are isolated from family and friends until they are completely under the influence of this person who they think is wonderful.
"People always believe it couldn't happen to them but the families we work with are normal and come from right across the spectrum."
It suggests parents often do not realise the danger until too late while police and social services find it difficult to distinguish between the early stages of grooming and normal teenage courtship behaviour.
The group called for an end to presumptions that things like this only happened to dysfunctional families and argued more specialist police officers were needed to deal with these cases.
One of the victims' mothers, who asked not to be named, said her daughter was 13 when she was first picked up by an older man outside her school. She soon began truanting and going missing for increasingly long periods of time.
The girl started shoplifting and experimenting with a variety of illegal drugs, eventually overdosing. At the age of 16, she left home and ended up living in a flat in London being used as a prostitute.
Her mother said: "These men are still around and doing the same thing. I have seen them where I shop buying cigarettes for kids. That is the thing that really riles me."

And not forgetting
I HAVE PAINTED NO DEPLORABLE PICTURE.
I HAVE NEVER, NEVER, EVER SAID IT WAS TO DO WITH RACE.
THERE HAS BEEN NO "BILIOUS HATE" FROM ANYONE ON THIS THREAD.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Mar 11 - 03:49 AM

That does not excuse us us--well, it doesn't excuse me.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Mar 11 - 03:53 AM

"Keith has been maliciously attacked on this thread and I don't agree with the attacks."
This posting bears remarkable similarities to Keith's forged post of yesteryear.
I would not suggest in a million years that even Keith would be so stupid as to repeat his forgery stunt, but I do find such a 'Road to Damascus' conversion extremely suspicious, especially in the light of:
"I know him, and he's a good person."
To me it reads as a rather crude 'dirty tricks campaign' designed to help Keith let go of the tiger's tail.
Of course - it alters nothing - Keith's racist 'War and Peace' stands as a monument to his views on British Pakistani life and culture, and past threads set out his general view on immigrants generally, pretty clearly.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Smedley
Date: 30 Mar 11 - 04:08 AM

This thread is about important topics. Their importance has sadly become secondary to an attritional sniping war. The chances of one 'side' convincing the other are as likely as elephants learning to ice skate. And so many of the posts are so looooooooooooooooooong - I have no idea of how you lot can bear to type such lengthy chunks of text.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Mar 11 - 04:08 AM

Jim,

You have an opinion. I would guess the Road to Damascus remark is a reference to JC. I am, however, not in debt to the way you feel. I AM in debt to my own conscience. With that, I must say goodnight. It's 4:04 am here, and I'm not inspired enough or pissed off enough to argue with you at this early (late) hour.

Gang rape is NOT a minor social deviation, and I do not care what the reasons are for it. I just know that even if the rapee is wrong, it ain't right to exact a revenge such as this.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Mar 11 - 04:11 AM

Can I just add that personally I find this intervention extremely welcome if it helps close down this vile thread which, had it not been on an internet forum, would have been closed right at the beginning on legal grounds as an incitement to racial hatred.
Good riddance - and perhaps forum organisers and adjudicators can take note for future reference.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Mar 11 - 04:32 AM

This exact debate was also had in the national and international media in the days and weeks after Straw and Dando.

The ethnicity of the child rapists is irrelevant.
Race mattered not at all to Wilmer.
She just treated it as a criminal issue and did not think it worth mentioning that all the perpetrators in her hundreds of cases happened to be BPs.

Straw made it an issue, by declaring it and offering an explanation.
The over-representation is a fact.
Perhaps it was not worth challenging those who have to deny it for their ideological agendas.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Mar 11 - 05:17 AM

"This exact debate was also had in the national and international media in the days and weeks after Straw and Dando."
It most certainly was not - if you can indicate the texts of ANY DEBATE THAT PRODUCED THIS AMOUNT OF ABUSIVE AND UNFOUNDED FILTH, AIMED AT ANY RACIAL OR CULTURAL GROUP IN BRITAIN to the extent you have produced it here, please feel free to do so.
This is the stuff British National Party meetings - safely closeted behind closed doors - are made of.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Mar 11 - 07:46 AM

"ABUSIVE AND UNFOUNDED FILTH, AIMED AT ANY RACIAL OR CULTURAL GROUP IN BRITAIN "

No one has posted such.
You must be deranged.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Mar 11 - 07:56 AM

Read your own posts - perhaps you can use them as notes next time you address one of your rallys
Jim Carroll