BS: Should you alienate Fascists?

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 10:28 PM

Read what he said. Read the translation fer keriste sake.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: mousethief
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 10:36 PM

Which translation, 999? You mean this one:

Germany awake from your nightmare!
Give foreign Jews no place in your Empire!
   We will fight for your resurgence!
   Aryan blood shall never perish!


? That's the first translation I find reading backward up the thread.

O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 10:38 PM

"How do you know you disagree with the politics, if you don't understand the language?"

I take it you then disagree with the politics after seeing the translation?

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 10:41 PM

MT: Let Conrad answer that, will ya? Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 10:55 PM

You make it sound like bring a insensitivity,dogmatic and delusional neo-megalomaniac is a bad thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 11:05 PM

Have you taken the test?


http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: mousethief
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 11:13 PM

I was talking about #1 peasant's hearing of a Haitian folk song.

O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 11:15 PM

Have I been excluded from events for political color of my songs
Yes
Southern Maryland Celtic Festival would not let me even post information about the existence of a web page of a collection of Orange Songs of the tradition of the island of Ireland.

They cited ban on politics.

I went right from my scolding to listen to three groups on three stages at the same festival who openly and without complaint were allowed to sing Republican songs of that tradition of the isle of Ireland

Never actually been tossed out I don't think. I am tempted to wear a conservative political button something like vote republican and see how pleasant folkies would be to me but have not wished to spoil friendships by exercising my freedom.

Conrad

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 11:27 PM

ubject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Amergin - PM
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 10:21 PM

So you must like the song lyrics I posted above. lyrics like "Sharpen the long knives/let the knives stab into the Jew's body."

Those are English translations of Nazi propaganda. Like stated before you bigotry does not surprise me.

____________________________________________
Some of the most beautiful songs in the gaelic language contain wondrous tunes - treasures combined with words that are crafted into grand works of art- it is only when you translate them that there is a political view- the politics in a song is only a very small bit small enough to be vastly overshadowed by the crafting of notes and sounds. Famous poets write on a lot of subjects their poetry is still recognized as great not based upon content or literal meaning but by a host of other factors.
Get the record the Blue and the Grey- one side civil war songs of the north the other of the south- they can exist as flip sides and played and enjoyed. I could see a similar record of rabid zionist songs on one side and Nazi or rabid Palestinian songs on the other. For our purposes a song must be primairly a song.

Somewhere I remember reading of a songwriter recently who was paid to write songs for two vastly opposing political groups. His songs were praised as excelent even though content was not at all compatable.
))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))more below


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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: mousethief - PM
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 10:24 PM

How do you know you disagree with the politics, if you don't understand the language?

Because songs are wondrous things you need not listen to or appreciate the political statements while still benefiting from the song and the crafting of the words viewed abstractly. If you only listen to the literal meaning of songs you are missing way too much.

Conrad

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 12:06 AM

Thanks, MT. Conrad, send me some of what you're taking.



























On second thaought, please don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 12:51 AM

Hi there Dude.....IUt be me...SPAW, your old buddy with yet another of my welcome messages for you!!!!

Well here we are again with yet another dumbass thread from that King of the Genre, Cornhole Bladderass, #1 PISSANT.   It is always such a pleasure to have you show up just to prove that one man CAN BE the dumbest ass in the western hemisphere!

Just love your latest philosophy! Lessee if I have it right........A song is a song is a song. Yeah, uh-huh, sure.......so then a rose is a rose is a rose.......and a broke-dick jadrool is a broke-dick jadrool is a broke-dick jadrool and you are. Seems right to me.

Please continue if you any words of wisdom. So far you haven't.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 12:53 AM

Some things we call constants.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: mousethief
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 01:14 AM

If you rate Nazism as the "other side" of Zionism you're sick.

O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 03:42 AM

That is a very US-centric test, Ed. Indeed some of the particualr choices offered make little sense outside the US religio-political enclave. However, I appear to be about as libertarian as the Dalai Lama, but more communistic, and both more libertarian and more communistic than Gandhi.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 03:51 AM

Fascism espouses the idea of a totalitarian state which, by its very nature, is opposed to personal liberty and freedom of speech. Therefore 'fascissm' and 'freedom of speech' are oxymorons (I'll refrain from drawing the obvious analogy beteween fasicst and moron).

Take the politics out of folk music and you lose a whole chunk. Traditionally, those politics have been left wing - and long my it be so. I, for one, will continue to oppose (and, hopefully alienate) the BNP and it's bedfellow, UKIP, in every way I can.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 08:03 AM

Take the politics out of folk music and you lose a whole chunk. Traditionally, those politics have been left
_________________

you miss the point

not arguing that politics be taken out of the song content but that the community be open to all expressions from all people in a spirit of tolerance not dwelling on the individual messages but rather on the art of composition. I find it hard to believe that people can dismiss songs and song traditions just because of lyric content a relativly minor aspect of the whole. I find it easy to disregard the original purposes and messages of the lyrics. Sometimes it takes me several listens to figure out what the message is in the first place.
____________________________________

Politics have been left because communities of left thinkers have excluded others and have dominated. We need to watch out for intolerance of any kind even if it comes from people we agree with. If we focus upon the universal ground of language construction, rhyme pattern and arrangement of notes we will not have such divisions which keep others from joining us in the appreciation of traditions of all kinds and achievements of song creators and keepers through the centuries.

For example- celtic music If you listen to the celtic folks has come down from thousands of years (many would disagree but many still hold this point of view) If so then the ancient Irish Songs were produced by head hunters and those owning slaves- now under standards expressed in this forum we would never wish to play ancient celtic music due to these negative associations.

If we did so that would be a great loss. So lets get over it for other traditions and make them welcome not as political forces but as creators of musical treasures.

Conrad

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 08:32 AM

The BNP are an itch like syphilis (without the pleasure in the acquiring process). I note the BNP clone-makers are out again. Wonderful pattern of honesty. Did you see the Wisbech programme Sam? Your grunts can't cut it.


Konrad - you appear to know even less Irish history than me, and that takes some doing!

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 10:12 AM

If by alienate you mean meet them in the street with a baseball bat, you got my vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 11:09 AM

If by alienate you mean meet them in the street with a baseball bat, you got my vote
__________________

such treatment of those you disagree with will not assist the preservation and growth of folk music
music can heal divides but not when this sort of attitude prevails

Conrad

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 11:23 AM

Geeziz Cornhole....You are really the epitome af an asswipe.......

Tell ya' what Cumstain.....How about you take that nice KKK song all about hating and killing niggers and Jews and go sing it for all the folks you meet just to show us how music can help heal. Go ahead......Let us all know how it goes for you.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 11:25 AM

"you miss the point"

On the contrary - the point is plain and clear. Zero tolerance for fascists and if the songs can help oppose them, we'll sing them loud and often. The message of those songs is everything. Got it now?

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 11:58 AM

Why Tom T Hall would have written a song to Fascism, if he had of thought of it.Here's an example of what he could have done:

I like fascists. They make us all radical fellows
I like facists.
Much into themselves and those of their kind,
They've made me a right think'in fellow (Made him a right think'in fellow)
Commies are not tough, socialists cost too much, Hitler put my car in gear
This little refrain should help me explain as a matter of fact I like fascists
(He likes fascists)

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 12:05 PM

Ah, yes...if only we could identify all the real fascists, wouldn't that be lovely? I very much doubt it will ever happen. They don't all walk around, after all, conveniently sporting swastika armbands and shaved heads.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 12:09 PM

This is fuckin' hilarious, you guys wouldn't know a fascist if you found one in your soup.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 12:12 PM

My My that was a bit spooky, Hawk.....cross posted

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 12:34 PM

Apparently there are some folkies who go out of their way to recruit fascists, because they have so much fun arguing with them.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 12:35 PM

The wind blew and the shit flew..........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 12:49 PM

Richard Bridge ~

Purely out of interest & desire for clarity:

~ your first post on this thread ~ #4 on the thread overall ~ consisted solely of the word "Wanker". It was not clear to me whether this was addressed to the OP or to the poster of post #3 which immediately preceded yours.

Could you be so kind as to elucidate, for taxonomic & comprehensional purposes, please.

Regards ~ Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 01:12 PM

"Well *#1 PEASANT* you will always get remarks like that here"

If you don't like it you can sod off back to your fascist friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 01:20 PM

This is so jolly! ;-) It's just like a bunch of McCarthyites getting together in 1956 and agreeing on how much they all hate those vile commies (although they wouldn't know a real commie if they tripped over him).

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 01:55 PM

"....ordinary Fascists themselves are prone to all the fallibilities of the human condition. Fascism has never claimed otherwise" Quote from an interesting defense on being fascist at this site:
http://richarddawkins.net/articles/1622

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 02:58 PM

The BNP is a hangover from the National Front which for all intents and purposes is an English Nazi party.    This slogan from The National Front website "The National Front - The party of White family values."

Makes me shudder.

For the facebook fake BNP profile creator (who I imagine is lurking about here), I reported the fake profile of me to admin this morning. Now either the facebook admin are really on the ball (highly unlikely as it has always taken weeks before) or the creator pissed himself with fear at getting caught and removed it.

Conrad FYI, on that fake facebook profile of me your name was mentioned. You may want to follow up on that. Or maybe not.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 03:14 PM

Takes all kinds to sing in the Choir
If you want a Choir and find a fascist that sings well
I guess you should simply sing and not mention politics
The music you will find does not mind but prospers
whoever sings it.

We can not afford to turn any group away from the music.
If you get a folk gathering together and want it to expand simply do't talk politics- if you feel the urge to talk politics have another drink.

Once a group takes on a political aura projecting a political dimension of its identity it repels the unlike group. We can't afford to loose people.

As you know or may not know......I am an artcar artist. My feeling is that designing an art car and driving it daily is something for everyone- just like folk music. Once a fellow cartist described my vehicle as a "crazy car" to a child with parent.
The entire category of artcar was thereafter marked for that individual. It will be harder for them to join in the movement.

Same with folkies. If you project extreme politics or on side left or right in everything you do then you will simply put the wall up and you will fail to reach those on the other side. Sad when there is so much more to music and our need to perpetuate and transmit it.

Conrad

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 03:21 PM

"Wanker"
As with Mike's question, was that to anyone in particular Richard or the world in general?
Peasant;
As the avarage fascist's beliefs seem to extend to ridding the world of anybody who doesn't conform to their own beliefs and racial backgrounds, when the opportunity arises, by exterminating them - what do you think?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Amos
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 03:36 PM

WHy "should" you alienate anyone?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 03:38 PM

Exactly! Build bridges not walls.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 04:22 PM

All fascists and their apologists are wankers

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 04:29 PM

Dont be so hard on yourself Richard !! :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 04:35 PM

And as for anyone who says that a person's musical ability outweighs all other things - what if Hannibal Lecter could sing?

The foolish idea that fascism is a legitimate "third way" can be tested by looking at the espousing states - Nazi Germany and Mussolini's Italy.

The idea that the present nazi idealogues and sympathisers participate in genuine political debate can be tested by going to the fake BNP Mudcat, and seeing what the grunts and knuckle draggers there ("Sam Hudson" included) post.

It has been an inherent part of fascist thought since the 1930s that the "Plond Aryan Peast" is a superior type of human and that the swarthy and the negroid, the Jewish and the Roma were pestilential corrupters of the superior genotype (read some of the stuff about spermatic absorption) - all of which led directly to the extermination camps.

Civilised humans know what Dick Griffin and pals are.

That, "Peasant", includes you but it is regrettable that you lower the name of peasantry by adopting it.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 04:38 PM

Jim, fascist movements do not always have a racial component in their recipe for "setting things right". They may, and often have had such a racial bone to pick, but it is not necessarily a defining characteristic of fascism. You can have a fascist system without any racial issues coming to the fore. On the other hand, it is always a defining characteristic of fascists to, as you said, desire to "to rid the world of anybody who doesn't conform to their own beliefs".

However, that is also a defining feature of anyone at all who is aggressively exclusive about his beliefs and thereby intolerant of the beliefs of others.... ;-)

You don't have to be a fascist to want to rid the world of anyone who doesn't conform to your beliefs. You just have to be an intolerant, aggressive, opinionated, self-righteous extremist who thinks his way is the only right way, that's all. Among the ranks of such people are many...

Fascists
Anti-fascists
Communists
Socialists
Democrats
Republicans
Zionists
Jihadists
Black Panthers
Ku Klux Klan
Religious fanatics of EVERY religion imaginable
Political fanatics of every political movement imaginable
Racial fanatics of every race imaginable
Gender fanatics of either gender
Sex-role fanatics of any and all sex roles


Etc.

What I am saying here is that you can find extremely prejudiced and aggressive jerks in any social or political movement if you look hard enough for them...and they aren't very hard to find...because they are the ones who talk loudest and most often, and with the most righteous fury. They KNOW they are "right" and that others are "wrong". ;-D That's what makes them so dangerous.

It is the desire to make everyone "the same" that has covered the world in blood. That existed long before anyone ever heard of "fascism" (a movement founded by Mussolini).

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 04:53 PM

What a fascist looks like.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Some rape victims should take blame'- ??
From: Lox - PM
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 08:17 PM

Ake,

I'm not running away from you.

I'm right in front of you confirming in absolute and certain terms that I think you are a bigot, a homophobe, a racist, a fantasist and a shit stirrer.

And I will not be apologizing to you.

So put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 04:59 PM

LH - pudding, proof, etc. Read the essential definitions of fascism. Show me a genuinely non-racist fascist organisation. The belief that all absolutists are fascistic in nature is incorrect, unworthy of you, and beneath your usual standard of contribution.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 05:26 PM

I think it's only polite to treat facists in the same way they treat others.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 05:26 PM

Are you insisting that I should adopt your belief systems, Richard? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 05:53 PM

Little Hawk, your understanding of fascism, if what you wrote is what you really mean, is sloppy, at best and insulting at worst.

I am sure you/we could come up with a one-word label that fits your description, but "fascist" is not it.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 06:50 PM

""It was not, like traditional conservatism, exclusively focused on the past, but was a forward-looking, consciously modernist movement.""

Sure was forward looking. A thousand years wasn't it? Then it hit the wall after only twelve.

Pragmatism, innovation and industry were valued. The innate power and energy of the People was praised. Fascism didn't over-think things. Fascism got it done.""

Yes, Fascism got it done.

6 million Jews from all over occupied Europe.
About 20 million Russians.
How many Gypsies, Homosexuals, Poles and Czechs (non Jewish)

And Germany in total ruins.

That's a high order of Pragmatism, Industry, and efficiency, and unremittingly destructive.

Now people like these anonymous Trolls are trying to impress the citizenry with their "British Patriotism", by annexing the music of the very people who fought and died to get rid of them.

Not necessary to alienate them. They are aliens, in the homeland of those who did away with their forebears.

Don T.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 06:56 PM

""If you project extreme politics or on side left or right in everything you do then you will simply put the wall up and you will fail to reach those on the other side. Sad when there is so much more to music and our need to perpetuate and transmit it.""

It is precisely because we object to extreme politics that we want rid of the fascist, racist thugs of the British Nazi Party.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: mousethief
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 07:13 PM

Reach fascists to what end? So they can listen to pretty folk music as they plot to overturn democracy and destroy Europe's remaining Jewry? Let 'em make their own music for Jew-bashing; why should they pollute ours?

O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 07:31 PM

"Jim, fascist movements do not always have a racial component in their recipe for "setting things right"
We can assume that our friend is referring to modern facsists - BNP, Ku Klux Clan, Le Pen's mob... today's brand of fascists et al, all of whom have adopted racism as their policy - ask Stepeh Lawrence's parents whether today's fascists are racist, they might be able to give you a hint.
Akenaton
"What a fascist looks like."
On the other hand, perhaps they might look like someone who despises people who don't share their sexual preferences and excuses clerical paedophilia - look to thyself.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 07:35 PM

Georges Sorel was before Mussolini. FYI.