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BS: Should you alienate Fascists?
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Fred McCormick Date: 18 Mar 10 - 03:44 PM Hey folks, it gets better and better. Having found that sam/helenbutcheretc has set up Bebo and Facebook accounts in my name, I've just had an email from Titter, sorry, Twitter asking me to activate my account! I don't have a Twitter accunt. Are there no lengths to which this berk will not go in order to secure the glorious historic destiny of the blue haired, blonde eyed Aryan master bates? Sorry, master race. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Little Hawk Date: 18 Mar 10 - 05:49 PM You could hire some thugs to beat him up.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Richard Bridge Date: 18 Mar 10 - 06:03 PM I assume that "accunt" was not a typo. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 19 Mar 10 - 07:05 AM ""The UK is still a democracy, fight their campaign yes, but respect the voice of the people after the election. That is what sets us apart from fascism."" In the event your nightmare scenario became fact Dai, we would have Fascism"", and there would be NO "voice of the people", only the voice of Fuhrer Griffin. As the Germans found out to their cost, with the destruction of their nation, you can't give these people one single solitary inch. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Fred McCormick Date: 19 Mar 10 - 07:49 AM Guess what folks. This annulus has now signed me up to Kelkoo. Whatever next I wonder? My God, the suspense is killing me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Fred McCormick Date: 19 Mar 10 - 07:54 AM And Digg, and Live Journal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Amergin Date: 19 Mar 10 - 07:56 AM Is it me or does Griffin resemble a bloated slug in a suit? Maybe should pour some salt on him.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: GUEST,Ralphie Date: 19 Mar 10 - 07:57 AM Hi Fred....Lucky you...I haven't been targeted at all... Bugger. Obviously not worthy. What do I have to do??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: akenaton Date: 19 Mar 10 - 08:12 AM As far as I remember, this all started when our democratic fighters started making nasty comments about a young lady BNP member who sang in a middle bar somewhere or other. Our democrats obviously didn't want to play with her.....Boo Hoooo! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Jeri Date: 19 Mar 10 - 09:45 AM The REAL Dai on the BNP "GUEST,Sam Hudson" is a stolen identity. "GUEST,Dai" is a stolen identity. Your best bet, IMO, is to not trust any pro-fascism, pro-bnp guest and check what they've said in the past if you're inclined. If all you want to do is argue with a troll, have fun. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Fred McCormick Date: 19 Mar 10 - 12:37 PM Oh God, he's still at it. In the last couple of hours I've received emails from a firm making bras for big women, a "confidential" dating agency and a local council responding to my "claim" for housing benefit. Any minute now his brain will burst from the exertion. Brain?, what brain? Thank God for the SAM bin. That's where he belongs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Fred McCormick Date: 20 Mar 10 - 01:38 PM I've just heard the news from Bolton. I didn't go because I had a strong suspicion that it would end in violence, and I am totally gutted at the fact that my fears have been confirmed. Perhaps the picture will change as it becomes clearer, but of the 55 arrests, the overwhelming majority appear to have come from the anti-fascist side, and seem to have involved people who went there looking for violence. The EDL, the BNP and every other far right organisation will be laughing themselves silly over this. It is exactly what they wanted. The football hooligans, knuckleheads and skinheads of the EDL succeeded in turning Bolton into a battleground virtually without lifting a finger. They have gained the maximum publicity for their cause and they have come out of it looking as though they are the victims. The EDL website has gone out of its way to urge disciplined and ostensibly peaceful behaviour from its supporters. They have insisted that there were to be no unauthorised megaphones; no thugs getting tanked up to the ears beforehand; no racism; and no "Allah" songs. That is because they knew the knuckleheads on our side would do their dirty work for them. The bastards. The stupid bloody bastards. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: akenaton Date: 20 Mar 10 - 01:59 PM Exactly so Fred, the lynch mob mentality never works! Perhaps the folks here need to take a good look at what is really happening in this country....stop creating bogeymen and start thinking. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Richard Bridge Date: 20 Mar 10 - 03:03 PM http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1201095_dozens_arrested_in_bolton_edl_rally_protest This report makes it sound sort of 50-50 ish |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Richard Bridge Date: 20 Mar 10 - 03:08 PM This too, fairly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Stringsinger Date: 20 Mar 10 - 03:24 PM Conrad, I hear ya'. Any rant gets old even if you agree with it. All we can do as human beings is to offer factual information and hope someone understands. Pete Seeger had a way of introducing his ideas into a concert that were not offensive to his audience. I've seen him charm a Young Republican audience. A lot of what is artistic is the way you approach your point-of-view as a performer. Rants just turn people off. The late Lee Hays of the Weavers must be credited for offering a political viewpoint through humor in the tradition of Will Rogers and carried on by Garrison Keillor. In a dialogue with fascists, it may be like discussing with certain religious people whose minds have been made up and will not operate on a reasoned level. I think of fascism as a kind of religion as was Stalinism or Naziism. I think one can alienate the principles of fascism quite easily by pointing out that they embody a kind of political cultish devotion by those who think they will benefit from it in some way. The eyes-glazed-over look can be diffused by moving away from their agenda in the conversation toward something that is mutually agreeable. Confrontation in an attempt to persuade those with a fascist ideology only hardens their position. The only thing anyone can do is offer reasoned facts and observations. It takes a great deal of humility to attempt to find common ground with those with which we disagree. Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Richard Bridge Date: 20 Mar 10 - 03:29 PM Getting accurate facts could be tricky, but some sources are saying that the UAF were kettled for over an hour before the EDL arrived in force, then the EDL were largely allowed to run riot by the police, until they started throwing things at the police. Allegedly the UAF and RAR organisers were seen to be peacefully demonstrating before taken by police snatch squads, and before there were any major events of disorder. There seems to be enough to make one ask whether the police were acting objectively, or in a partisan fashion. There is a rumour but I know no more that MacDonalds was bombed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Fred McCormick Date: 20 Mar 10 - 04:05 PM Akenton. "Exactly so Fred, the lynch mob mentality never works!" The lynch mob mentality belongs on the fascist side, along with apartheid, Auschwitz and the jackboot and the gas chamber. The vast majority of anti-fascists realise that. Unfortunately, a tiny minority don't. They think they are aiding the socialist revolution. They're not. Richard. I'll know more when I speak to some of the people who went to Bolton. I do know though that some of the demonstrators went with the express aim of causing trouble. If they played into the hands of reactionary police, as well as the EDL, that is their own stupid fault. What makes it worse for me is that I've just spent two days demonstrating against the BNP. We protested peacefully. The BNP did not. In fact they proved themselves to be an unruly paranoid rabble. We got a lot of support from passers by, where the BNP just made fools of themselves. That is how you fight fascism, not by turning up at anti-fascist rallies armed with too much testosterone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: akenaton Date: 20 Mar 10 - 04:51 PM "The lynch mob mentality belongs on the fascist side, along with apartheid, Auschwitz and the jackboot and the gas chamber." With the greatest of respect Fred you are talking of another time, another age.....We have new threats to fight against, many of them hidden in our own ideology. Our society is broken....and we assisted in the destruction, many of the issues which seemed so clear and so right have been proved more destructive than the ones they replaced We on the left (and I still count myself amongst that number) have been guilty of hypocrisy, wooly mindedness and sheer stupidity, we have allowed ourselves to be sidetracked by all manner of diversions instead of concentrating on ridding ourselves of the one overiding evil, Capitalism.....both State and Private. Given the information technology available today, there is no chance of a return to German style fascism, or German militarism. There is however, the likelihood of ideological "fascism" which is more likely to come from the ranks of the new left, than the right. "Orwellian" in nature and more destructive to the long term freedom and happiness of humanity than anything we have yet seen. If there are some real Fascists and Racists among the BNP then they are deranged and very easy to alienate from society....but I'm sure the majority who vote BNP do so in protest at the damage being inflicted on our country and our people by unscrupulous governments made up from political Parties which are almost indistinguishable from one another and by labeling them Fascist or racist, we are being intellectually lazy and creating more of the divisions in society which enable this failed system to continue.... Lets develop a sense of perspective. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Richard Bridge Date: 20 Mar 10 - 05:48 PM "ridding ourselves of the one overriding evil, Capitalism.....both State and Private". Bravo. Your bigotries ake detract from the task of overcoming that overriding evil. Your faith that there is no prospect of a return to italo-german state fascism is woolly minded in the extreme. Are you not watching what the "wash-up procedure" is doing to internet access? Even the BBC have caught on. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Richard Bridge Date: 20 Mar 10 - 05:57 PM I gather Weymann-Bennet has been released without charge. Failed BNP (oops, EDL) fit-up then. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: GUEST,Henry Date: 20 Mar 10 - 07:25 PM Socialist Worker has carried an ongoing 'feed' about the anti fascist opposition to the attempt by the fascist EDL to invade Bolton. Well done to the thousands of anti fascists who turned out to oppose the violent beer sodden racist thugs in their face scarves and balaclavas. The lesson of history warns us that we have to confront these racists or they just keep coming back for more. Moreover, there are serious questions about the role of the police who sought to intimidate the anti fascists while chatting to some EDL thugs as if they were old chums. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: GUEST,Mark Stevens Date: 21 Mar 10 - 09:55 AM re: yesterday's Bolton News and Waayman(sic) Bennett's arrest. That made my day :) I wonder who are the real Fascists ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: theleveller Date: 21 Mar 10 - 10:12 AM "I wonder who are the real Fascists ?" I think probably just need to look in the mirror :0 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Fred McCormick Date: 21 Mar 10 - 11:33 AM Is this the same Mark Stevens who played Speed The Plough on the BNP's CD of the Red White & Blue Festival 2007? I reckon it must be because here's his interests as shown on the BNP 2007 membership list. "BSc (Hons) Media Production. HND Moving Image/Photography. Semi-professional multi musician (traditional/British folk). Pagan. Classic motorcycle enthusiast. Huntsman" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: GUEST,Mark Stevens Date: 21 Mar 10 - 03:29 PM Ah, you've been listening to my folk musical contribution to British Nationalism ! Good on you, matey ! ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Fred McCormick Date: 21 Mar 10 - 03:47 PM I haven't. Your so called contribution is there for all to see on Excalibur, along with a lot of other gut wrenching tripe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: akenaton Date: 21 Mar 10 - 04:38 PM Fred.....why are you so surprised that people do nasty things to your facebook profile? A bit of liberal tolerance would help. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: theleveller Date: 22 Mar 10 - 04:31 AM Why should we tolerate a bunch of intolerant, illiberal facist thugs? Your logic escapes me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie Date: 22 Mar 10 - 04:40 AM Leveller, these type of threads cause problems. I wish to God you and the few others involved would just drop it. Leave them to it. You are stirring the pot and others end up getting hurt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Fred McCormick Date: 22 Mar 10 - 05:20 AM akenaton "Fred.....why are you so surprised that people do nasty things to your facebook profile? A bit of liberal tolerance would help." Did I ever express surprise at the lunatic antics of a bunch of nutters on the far right? In any event I don't have a facebook profile. As for the notion of liberal tolerance, I suggest you read a few histories of the third reich. Try reading about the liberal tolerance which Hitler and his cronies showed towards the Jews, gays, liberals, trade unionists, socialists, gypsies, the congenitally infirm and all the other outcasts of the master race. I believe in tolerance of other people's cultural proclivities, but I am utterly intolerant of those who are themselves intolerant of other sections of humanity, whether on the grounds of race, religion, sexuality or for any other reason. One world. One people. One race - the human race. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: theleveller Date: 22 Mar 10 - 05:48 AM "Leave them to it. You are stirring the pot and others end up getting hurt. " If we turn a blind eye people get hurt - all those groups that these thugs are opposed to. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 22 Mar 10 - 05:49 AM They got me too! Funny though because my real name is unusual and I know with absolute certainty that there is only one of me:-) They also seemed to couple my name with a picture of a certain Greek gentleman who also corresponds on here. Very flattering for me, as if I had 1/4 of Georges talent I would be happy! They put the mythical English/Polish/Russian/Greek amalgamation as living in the Midlands somehere. Not very bright are they? It was reported to Facebook and removed straight away. Cheers DeG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie Date: 22 Mar 10 - 06:48 AM They have little to do. Let sleeping dogs sleep ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Fred McCormick Date: 22 Mar 10 - 11:28 AM Steamin' Willie "They have little to do. Let sleeping dogs sleep!" Oh aye? I've just received this from Hope Not Hate. "Over the past few days the media have been reporting that Griffin and his fellow BNP MEP Andrew Brons have been using vast amounts of taxpayer money to prop up their extremist party. Our research team have just sent me a dossier listing the benefactors of this action - and 10 of them are standing to be MPs in the coming election, including their election co-ordinator. "We are paying for the BNP's election campaign. "This appears to be a clear misuse of public funds - and it's up to us to demand that the EU take the strongest possible action to stop it. We've set up a simple tool that lets you write to four EU anti-corruption bodies at once. http://action.hopenothate.org.uk/fraud "According to our source inside the BNP, 14 party members are being paid with EU money. Several of them don't even live in areas where the BNP has MEPs. And most of them are among the party's lead candidates in the forthcoming General Election. "We can't let this continue. If enough of us come together we can demand that the EU stamp down on the BNP's dodgy activities - and stop each of us funding this nasty, extremist party. Our simple tool lets you write to the EU Anti-Fraud Office, the EU Ombudsman, the President of the EU Parliament, and the Secretary General. "Every taxpayer is currently funding the BNP's election campaign. With your help we can stop this right here and right now." Sounds pretty typical of fascist behaviour to me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: akenaton Date: 22 Mar 10 - 12:52 PM Labour under Blair, were far more dangerous! More dangerous than the |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: akenaton Date: 22 Mar 10 - 12:53 PM Tories?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 22 Mar 10 - 06:52 PM ""Perhaps the folks here need to take a good look at what is really happening in this country....stop creating bogeymen and start thinking."" It ain't happening in your country Ake, so it's easy for you to act the pompous prat. We have to deal with them, and we will. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Mar 10 - 12:04 PM Perhaps the thread title should be changed to: BS: Should you kick Fascists in the nuts, shoot them on sight, and rip their stinking jugular veins out with your own teeth whenever you encounter them? Could our world be made safer and kinder in this fashion? Would that better express the emotional needs of the enlightened majority? We do NEED, after all, to eliminate these wretches once and for all, correct? So what are we waiting for??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 23 Mar 10 - 02:35 PM Where in God's name did you get that from, LH? Certainly not from anything I posted. I expect that kind of truth spinning crap from Akenaton. He doesn't know any better. Where have I ever suggested a physical response? Those are exactly the tactics which make the BNP so unacceptable as a political party. Nonetheless, we cannot let them sow their poison without following behind to pull it up by the roots. Without constantly confronting their vile racism and bigotry, it will be allowed to pass unchallenged, and to corrupt the ignorant. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: akenaton Date: 23 Mar 10 - 03:38 PM Maybe I'm daft to leave myself open to the nut cases who follow these sort of threads.....and I've never met a real blood spattered rope carrying racist......BUT....BUT...BUT if Mr Griffin is "one of those", is barring non whites from his sad little group, really worse than being the Labour prime minister who made us all complicit in the deaths of a million men women and children? Is calling a black child a gollywog, worse than having a child blown to pieces by a "drone" and its soulless guidance system? I hate racism.....but I hate war and slaughter even more, haven't we lost our way somewhere along the road? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Fred McCormick Date: 23 Mar 10 - 03:53 PM Don. Hear hear. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Don Firth Date: 23 Mar 10 - 05:57 PM Excuse me for protruding, but I sometimes think Little Hawk would make excuses for the Devil himself. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Mar 10 - 06:06 PM Don't make the mistake of interpreting my satirical comments below on a literal basis, Don. ;-) I was joshing. I was making fun of the undercurrents of emotional violence various people are indulging themselves in here, not suggesting that any of you are proponents of actual physical violence toward anyone. Why should I even have to explain that? You're not stupid, after all, correct? I'm not making any kind of excuse or even any kind of comment about the BNP in anything I've said here. I have no interest in defending or helping them in any way. I'm commenting instead on the general level of the dialogue on this thread, and what seems to drive it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 23 Mar 10 - 06:39 PM I hate racism.....but I hate war and slaughter even more, haven't we lost our way somewhere along the road? So, as long as we have the one it is OK to continue with the other? That is a very strange kind of logic. Are you saying that until war is eliminated we should ignore racism or something? Do you not think that the two go hand in hand in a lot of cases and if you eliminate racism people will have less reason to hate each other? Maybe when all the people at grass roots level stop believing the lies spun in the media then we can start the real fight - against the people who opress us all, no matter what colour or creed! Just a thought. DeG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: olddude Date: 23 Mar 10 - 07:18 PM IF YA CAN FIND AN ISLAND BIG ENOUGH FER ALL OF EM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: GUEST,999 Date: 23 Mar 10 - 07:28 PM LH: You go be nice to them. I`d rather fight `em, violence or not. Your judgement of posters on the thread neglects to note that at least they have taken a position--one with which you seem to disagree. Such is your right--and such was theirs. IMO. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: GUEST,999 Date: 23 Mar 10 - 07:33 PM BTW, I think a better title for this thread would have been, "Should you welcome fascists into your home and heart." What a fuckin`stupid question. As to alienate them--why not? And the sooner the better, again IMO. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 23 Mar 10 - 08:28 PM ""Is calling a black child a gollywog, worse than having a child blown to pieces by a "drone" and its soulless guidance system? I hate racism.....but I hate war and slaughter even more, haven't we lost our way somewhere along the road?"" NO AKE! They are both totally indefensible! There is no conflict between hating racism, and hating war and slaughter. In answer to your question, NO! We haven't lost our way. We hate both racism, and war and slaughter, and if you don't understand that, it is YOU who have lost your way! Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Should you alienate Fascists? From: GUEST,Mark Stevens Date: 23 Mar 10 - 10:46 PM QUOTE: From: Fred McCormick Date: 21 Mar 10 - 03:47 PM I haven't. Your so called contribution is there for all to see on Excalibur, along with a lot of other gut wrenching tripe. Fred, how can you condem my recordings and other Excalibur products as 'a lot of other gut wrenching tripe' when you haven't heard it ?? Doh, the chattering classes.... |
