BS: A birther in the Court

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 10 May 10 - 04:48 PM

Michael:

Barack Obama is an American.

He has been an American all his days.

He represents the nation, and legally and soberly serves it as Commander in Chief as well as chief executive.

He is a sterling representative of what an individual American can become with effort and intelligence: well-educated, well-balanced, literate, insightful, thoughtful, active, and striving to better the nation and the world.

If you ever do grow up, you would do well to emulate Mister Obama. Perhaps you should accelerate the process by joining the Navy.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 11 May 10 - 01:32 AM

Amos you're losing your grip. Get your meds checked, man. Do you really think you can argue sense into ickymike?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 14 May 10 - 12:36 AM

Tomorrow. Mark it on your calendars. Red letter day:

Starting Friday and for a full week, the Atlah World Missionary Church will hold in essence a citizen's court in what it bills as "the greatest trial in American history."

The trial, which will include legal scholars and retired court officers, will examine several issues, including Obama's birth place, his citizenship status, his academic credentials and alleged ties to the Central Intelligence Agency as a student....

Besides Obama's actual birth documentation, the still-concealed documentation for him includes kindergarten records, Punahou school records, Occidental College records, Columbia University records, Columbia thesis, Harvard Law School records, Harvard Law Review articles, scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, passport, medical records, his files from his years as an Illinois state senator, his Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records, and his adoption records....

The "certification of live birth" posted online and widely touted as "Obama's birth certificate" does not in any way prove he was born in Hawaii, since the same "short-form" document is easily obtainable for children not born in Hawaii. The true "long-form" birth certificate – which includes information such as the name of the birth hospital and attending physician – is the only document that can prove Obama was born in Hawaii, but to date he has not permitted its release for public or press scrutiny....

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=153145

And then there's this:

...investigators linked with Manning discovered that Obama never attended Columbia University as Obama claims. According to investigators, during the time when Russia was engaging Afghanistan in war during the '70s and '80s, Obama was recruited by the CIA to help the Afghanis obtain weapons because he has the muslim look and speaks the Arabic language and fit right in with CIA plans....

The Manning team also found out that Obama was not a law professor at the University of Chicago as he stated. Manning also said that there is evidence that shows both Barack Obama and Michelle Obama had their law licenses revoked and all this evidence will be given at the trial.

http://www.examiner.com/x-47432-Baton-Rouge-Republican-Examiner~y2010m5d8-Trial-by-citizen-and-keeping-the-government-accountable

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 14 May 10 - 01:00 AM

O RLY?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 14 May 10 - 01:44 AM

Is this even bigger than Hale-Bopp?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 May 10 - 09:28 PM

Michael,

Clicky

Says it all.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 14 May 10 - 11:47 PM

I, for one, have been holding my breath.
Ichy, can we get some kind of statement from you about what your opinion/approach will be if this whole thing is a monstrous, overblown, un-noticed flop?
Naaah. I didn't think so.
Yawn.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 May 10 - 12:01 AM

He'll just shrug it off and come up with something else equally ridiculous.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 15 May 10 - 12:26 AM

I'm curious about how ichMael hooked up with Mannning's church in Harlem. Unless you live in Harlem or keep an eye on kooky cults, you would not easily hear about Rev. Manning and his so called "church". Now that Manning has hooked up with birthers, he has gained more notoriety than just his previous campaign to ruin businesses in Harlem (his plan was to stop gentrification by urging people to boycott Harlem stores and banks). Manning is a typical cult leader - delusional and narcissistic.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 27 May 10 - 08:54 AM

refresh.

Well????????

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: GUEST,Songbob
Date: 27 May 10 - 01:53 PM

I like the coinage a poster on Balloon-Juice blog used:

The John Birth Society

Encapsulates it all in one, doesn't it?

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 27 May 10 - 09:43 PM

That about sums it up.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 27 May 10 - 10:47 PM

Seems to me none of these dire predictions and dramatic revelations made it to Reality land, Ichy.   Whatchoo tink of dot, mon?


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 May 10 - 07:54 AM

Have they really got nothing better to do - it's pathetic, typically loony USA!

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 May 10 - 01:13 PM

What is "natural born" meant to mean anyway?

There seems to be a w2i8despread assumption it'ssomnething to do with being born on the territory of the United States, but it can't mean that, since it's quite possible for someone not actually born on the territory of the United States to be eligible to become president.(For example John McCain, who was born in Panama).

In normal language "natural born" just means it wasn't a Caesarian birth, but presumably that's not what the term means in the US Constitution. So what does it mean?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 May 10 - 03:53 PM

"Natural born" in the U. S. Constitution refers to having been born in the United States, in a United States territory, or being the offspring of a parent who is a United States citizen. One of a number of exceptions would include the child of an ambassador from a foreign country who is born while the ambassador (if the ambassador IS the mother or the wife of the ambassador) is a resident of the U. S. at the time of the birth. Children born in a foreign country, but born of a U. S. qualifies as a "natural-born citizen." And there are a number of other stipulations.

Incidentally, if the other stipulations are met, it makes no difference if the baby is born "naturally" (vaginal birth) or by Caesarian section.

The circumstances of Barack Obama's birth have been the subject of a number of court trials--in official, established courts of law—and it has been solidly established on several occasions that he was born in the city of Honolulu, on the island of Oahu, in the state of Hawaii (which had received statehood two years before), on August 4th, 1961 of a Kenyan-born father and a U. S. born mother (State of Kansas, dead center of the United States).

According to the Constitution of the United States, this solidly establishes Obama as a citizen of the United States.

The questions raised about his birth certificate have also been long since resolved. But "birthers" will never be satisfied, of course. They believe what they believe because they desperately want to believe it, and no proof on earth will induce them to think otherwise.

Don Firth

P. S. A "naturalized" citizen would be one who is born in a foreign country of foreign born parents, and who applies for U. S. citizenship, passes the necessary examinations, and then swears an oath of loyalty to the United States. Naturalized citizens do not qualify for President. For example, Arnold Schwarzenegger, current governor of the State of California, born in Austria of Austrian parents, would not be able to run for President.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 28 May 10 - 04:14 PM

There ya go, Ich. Sweet, concise, factual and to the point. A doff of the cap to Mr Firth; read it and snarl, buddy.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 28 May 10 - 05:14 PM

As if logic has any hold...

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 May 10 - 05:20 PM

Like I said, ichy wants to believe it. His ego is all wrapped up in it. And crow really tastes lousy.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 May 10 - 06:52 PM

So what difference would it make where Obama had been born, anyway? Hawaii, Kenya, Outer Mongolia, Alpha Centauri - so what? Just not relevant.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 28 May 10 - 07:42 PM

Because they're ignorant of the actual content of the law about natural-born citizens and think if he was born in Outer Mongolia he isn't really an American citizen. I find it delightful when people are pig-ignorant about the constitution on exactly the issue they are invoking it for. Nearly as good are hyper patriots who treat the US flag in ways that violate the flag code.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 May 10 - 07:50 PM

Presumably if someone is born in the USA from illegal immigrants, they are still natural born American and eligible to be elected president. That'd really freak out the birthers. I hope it happens sometime.

How about children in occupied countries with American fathers and local mothers? Madame Butterfly's son, for example.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 28 May 10 - 08:04 PM

The confusion is that if you're born on US soil, you're automatically a citizen. That does NOT mean, however, that if you're not born on US soil, you're not a citizen. It's a logical fallacy. Then again who said teabaggers were logicians?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 May 10 - 03:04 PM

Mousethief speaks true.

The only exceptions I am aware of are children of foreign ambassadors or diplomats—employees or agents of foreign governments—who are born in the United States. They would be "natural born" citizens of whatever country their parents are from. This stipulation does not apply to those who are not in the diplomatic corps, or to immigrants or visitors from foreign countries.

There is also such a thing as dual citizenship. I knew a fellow in college who was born in South Africa of British parents, but who was a naturalized citizen of the United States. The U. S. State Department wanted him to give up his British passport, but it was not a legal requirement and he wanted to retain it because it would allow him to travel to countries that were "off limits" to Americans at the time, such as the Soviet Union. He wanted to maintain the flexibility. But—he could not run for President of the United States because he was not born in the U. S., nor was he born of one or more parents who were U. S. citizens.

No, unless "birthers" such as ichAbod and his buddy, the Reverend Manning, can establish that Obama was born outside of the United States or its territories and that neither of his parents was an American citizen, they're merely running around like headless chickens and making silly noises.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 29 May 10 - 04:54 PM

Ah well, maybe it's a good thing to keep a certain number of the teabaggers busy with the birther shit -- it keeps them from doing actual harm somewhere else.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 30 May 10 - 11:09 AM

IF the whole thing weren't so toxic--because of the underlying bitter and neurotic sentiment, not because of the content--it would be pitiable. Rabid bunny rabbits.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 May 10 - 12:25 PM

"...somebody said his grandmother said..."

Mousethief, which grandmother?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 May 10 - 12:27 PM

It occurs to me that if a president HAD to be born in the US or its territories even when his mother was a US citizen, no pregnant woman from here would dare travel to foreign lands.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 30 May 10 - 03:15 PM

Mousethief, which grandmother?

Don't ask me, ask Icky. He's the one who brought it up.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 May 10 - 06:05 PM

Natural born in the USA - considering prettywell the whole population's roots are somewhere else, that's rubbish.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 07:16 PM

A college instructor who worked as senior elections clerk for the city and county of Honolulu in 2008 is making the stunning claim Barack Obama was definitely not born in Hawaii as the White House maintains, and that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Obama does not even exist in the Aloha State.

"There is no birth certificate," said Tim Adams, a graduate assistant who teaches English at Western Kentucky University in Bowling Green, Ky. "It's like an open secret. There isn't one. Everyone in the government there knows this."

"I had direct access to the Social Security database, the national crime computer, state driver's license information, international passport information, basically just about anything you can imagine to get someone's identity," Adams explained. "I could look up what bank your home mortgage was in. I was informed by my boss that we did not have a birth record [for Obama]."

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=165041

Some stuff on google if you search "Tim Adams Obama" too.

Obama's an illegal alien. He wasn't born in America, his legal name isn't even Barack Obama. Biggest scam ever run on the American people.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 07:41 PM

Gee, I think Mudcat is running out of tinfoil, so much has been used up lately.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 08:31 PM

I nominate Itchy for the "Fuckwit Of The Century" award.

Anyone second the motion?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 10:43 PM

Paranoid schizophrenia.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 12:28 AM

Has this guy been fired for unlawful misuse of personally identifying information?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 01:39 PM

Itchy is mischaracterizing even his own citation link.

On reading the WND link, it's clear that this "college instructor" (which may mean that he's just a part time teaching assistant, to help out with his tuition as a grad student) is either just all wet or perhaps outright lying. Adams claims that his department had access to all sorts of identification records, with the claim that they would have had the birth record if there had been one, but that his boss said they didn't have one. But the very article Itchy provides quotes a higher-up in that office that they don't have access to birth certificates.

I suppose the statement that "We don't have one" merely means that "Our office doesn't have anything like that."

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 01:52 PM

Well, see, that's the kind of sensitivity to different meanings and other distinctions of fact that gets washed away when the human mind succumbs to fear and hatred, as Ichy's has done, even when it tries deserately to cover itself up with a thin veneer of pretended reasonableness. It's just horseshit with spray paint on it.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 02:10 PM

Yes, we have no bananas,
We have no bananas today!

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 08:28 PM

The article's pretty clear cut. Tim Adams was senior elections clerk in 2008. He says no birth record for Obama.

And no one has produced a birth certificate. People keep pointing to the short form birth certificate, which anyone can get, but his long form certificate has never been made public.

The governor of Hawaii said she never saw the birth certificate--she sent her health director to look at it. So we're getting third-hand information on the certificate. And now the governor is amending her story. Fishy.

Obama's African relatives say they saw him born in Kenya, he's produced no proof of birth, and he's spent over 2 million bucks hiding all his personal records. He became a "community organizer" after law school because he wouldn't have been able to pass the background check had he applied for work with a law firm. So he worked as a community organizer, then he was fast-tracked in politics. Once he got his diplomatic passport as an Illinois state senator, he never had to show any other form of I.D.

If he was born in the U.S., prove it.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 08:31 PM

Ha ha ha ha, um.... ha!

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 08:35 PM

Oh, Ick. You don't apparently see the difference between word-of-mouh wild-assed improbability and the most likely truth.

Your assertions are not backed up by direct evidence. The Hawaiian government official attested to the validity of the birth certificate. The local newspaper reported the birth. All you have to the contrary is a bunch of improbable far-out rumor mongering with about as much cred as being "sucked up by aliens and violated for biological research purposes in a mother ship". I'm sure you've had that happen, so you must know how it feels to appear unbelievable to so many otherwise apparently intelligent folks. Besides, that would account for your head being stuck so far up your ass.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 08:48 PM

The local newspaper took a birth announcement from a couple of happy maternal grandparents.

Inadmissable.

Next argument.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 08:52 PM

A lie. But what else would one expect?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 08:57 PM

Hawaii's health director is Dr. Chiyome Fukino. She was appointed to her job by the governor. Fukino was not elected. She was appointed and is thereby beholden to the governor for her job.

In July of 2009, Fukino said, "I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawai'i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai'i State Department of Health verifying Barrack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai'i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago…."

How is that proof of anything? Dr. Fukino also said, "All of the evidence that we have says that the beaches are as safe now as they were before the sewage spill."

http://thinkexist.com/quotes/dr._chiyome_fukino/

Witness not reliable. Non-admissable.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 08:57 PM

Conspiracy theorists like the birthers would rather believe a complicated lie rather than the clear-cut facts. It makes them feel special, like they have "inside info"... like Heaven's Gate and Comet Hale-Bopp.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 09:10 PM

Looks like Dr. Fukino did some waffling on a sewage spill in Hawaii. Said there weren't "standards" and such, then said the beaches were fine.

"Basically, there are no standards for bacteria and sand samples, so the question: what does it mean?"

http://thinkexist.com/quotes/dr._chiyome_fukino/2.html

Oh, this Fukino looks like a real piece of detritus. Sewage spill in April of 2006, million gallons of crap polluting Waikiki beach, then she said there was no point in testing the sand after the spill because studies have never been able to link human illness to bacteria found in the sand.

http://www.hawaiithreads.com/archive/index.php/t-8404.html

Oh, yeah. This is someone I'd trust when she said she saw a birth certificate.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 09:39 PM

I hereby withdraw my nomination of Itchy for "Fuckwit of the Century". he's obviously WAY overqualified.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 10:38 PM

So let me get this straight.

A woman says it's okay to swim in shit on Waikiki, and then she tells you she saw Obama's birth certificate. And you believe her on the birth certificate thing.

Does that sum it up?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 11:20 PM

Methinks more that just a few people have seen Obama's birth certificate.

Speaking of swimming in shit, Ichy. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 11:48 PM

Okay, Don. List the people who've seen the birth certificate. The actual long-form birth certificate.