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BS: Pedants' up-commence
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Subject: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: Mr Red Date: 23 Aug 08 - 02:51 AM I heard on BBC Radio today that a couple of guys have been fined for correcting the grammar on road signs in Colorado. And pay for new sign. I bet the grammar is corrected then! Can anyone find the link? I am off to a Folk Festival. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: Richard Bridge Date: 23 Aug 08 - 03:23 AM Damn! They should get a medal each. On the Hoo peninsular at themoment there are a lot of signs saying "No access to pipeline traffic" when they (presumably) mean "It is forbidden to use route for access to the pipeline". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: ClaireBear Date: 23 Aug 08 - 03:58 AM "PHOENIX (AP) - When it comes to marking up historic signs, good grammar is a bad defense. "Two self-styled vigilantes against typos who defaced a more than 60-year-old, hand-painted sign at Grand Canyon National Park were sentenced to probation and banned from national parks for a year. "Jeff Deck and Benjamin Herson pleaded guilty Aug. 11 for the damage done March 28 at the park's Desert View Watchtower. The sign was made by Mary Elizabeth Jane Colter, the architect who designed the rustic 1930s watchtower and other Grand Canyon-area landmarks. "Deck and Herson, both 28, toured the United States this spring, wiping out errors on government and private signs. They were interviewed by NPR and the Chicago Tribune, which called them "a pair of Kerouacs armed with Sharpies and erasers and righteous indignation." An affidavit by National Park Service agent Christopher A. Smith said investigators learned of the vandalism from an Internet site operated by Deck on behalf of the Typo Eradication Advancement League, or TEAL." There's more here. I myself have been tempted from time to time to leap out of my car on a vigilante editing expedition, but I think I'd stop short of defacing something that's part of the historical record. Cheers, Claire |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: ClaireBear Date: 23 Aug 08 - 04:14 AM There's a photo of the sign -- and another version of the story -- here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: ClaireBear Date: 23 Aug 08 - 04:22 AM I found one more -- slightly more informative -- article here. And so to bed... Claire |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: jacqui.c Date: 23 Aug 08 - 04:42 AM I don't like bad spelling or grammar but like even less what amounts to vandalism of historic items. I hope these idiots never get to the UK - they would be appalled by all the spelling 'mistakes' here and I would love to see them trying to correct the legends on the tombstones in Westminster Abbey! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 23 Aug 08 - 07:22 AM Note to Bobert: Anyone who would deface a historic sign to correct a couple of spelling errors would probably find your Internet posts so offensive that bodily harm wouldn't be outside the question. Considering that one of the perpetrators is from Virginia, I would strongly suggest an inquiry with the local constabulary regarding some sort of restraining order. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: kendall Date: 23 Aug 08 - 07:28 AM I get a kick out of the warning labels on some products. Yesterday, I bought a squirt bottle of wheel cleaner to brighten up my aluminium wheels. part of the warning said, "Avoid eye contact." My first thought was don't look at it! Now, I spelled aluminum the British way and it came up with a red line under it.Interesting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 23 Aug 08 - 08:43 AM Are they going to put a plaque on the plaque, pointing out that the errors are now to be considered rustic and historic charm? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: katlaughing Date: 23 Aug 08 - 09:57 AM Kendall, you can set your spellchecker to recognise UK spellings and make that red line go away.:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 23 Aug 08 - 10:06 AM I think that some wrong things on signs need to be corrected. For example, when I was a young driver, the sign 'Lane ends merge' had me baffled. I think that it should say 'Lane ends. Merge left.' However, over the years I have realized that when driving, one is using the spatial part of the brain (the so-called right brain) more than the verbal part. And the right brain uses simple, primitive words. 'Ped', for example. When I am driving past of row of parked cars, I check for drivers, lights or exhaust - any sign that a car is starting and might pull out. To cue that, my right brain asks 'Are they waking up?' If a car is dead still and has no driver, I think 'It's asleep.' My husband and I are comfortable with helping each other drive. (We don't go for this neurotic 'back-seat driver' stuff.) The other day he was checking to the left when a bicyclist rode up on the right. I didn't say, 'Darling, I don't know if you noticed, but there is a bicyclist in dark clothes pedaling silently in from the right.' No, I hollared 'bike!' and the DH hit the brake. That is an example of the simple language that the spatial brain needs, and highway signs need to be written with those needs in mind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: Stilly River Sage Date: 23 Aug 08 - 10:28 AM I have a Sharpie and I know how to use it. But there is a line, and having worked for the NPS for a number of years, you live with errors on historic signs or publications--they're considered historic and charming. If the message got through, that is the first chore of Language--Grammar is its handmaiden. Grammar is manners, an accepted way of saying a thing. My crimes are small. For example, there are a number of Wendy's restaurants in the area owned by one franchise. At each of their drive-through menu boards with the mic and speaker there was a small beveled plastic sign that said "Checks Not Excepted." That means they won't make an exception of checks, they will, in fact, accept them. But that isn't what they intended to say. Several times I drove through and told them they should change the sign (a small copy also was on the glass at the cashier's booth). As a charter member (MA, 1999) of the Professional Organization of English Majors (POEM--thanks, Garrison!) I got tired of looking at it (I like their Crispy Chicken 5-piece, no sauce) so I started stepping out of the truck and doing this with my Sharpie: Accepted Checks Not I even got the drive through cashier's sign on one occasion when he stepped away. Those stupid signs had been there for more than two years, but after I hit four or five restaurants, they all disappeared within a couple of months. There may be a connection. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 23 Aug 08 - 10:47 AM good one, Stilly! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: ClaireBear Date: 23 Aug 08 - 11:26 AM Speaking of incomprehensible road signs, here's an anecdote. In my younger years I lived in a neighborhood in Berkeley, California, near the university's International House, where a great many students from other countries lived. One road sign at a major intersection in that neighborhood was so arcanely phrased that I often wondered what non-native-English-speakers (Did you ever notice how hard it is to make that phrase truly comprehensible in writing, by the way? There's no right way to hyphenate it!) made of it. The sign read: "Opposing traffic has longer green." Do you picture, as I did, foreign students leaping out into the middle of the streets to oppose the traffic, in an effort to keep the earth greener? Come to think of it, this being Berkeley, maybe that was what it meant. That would explain a lot about the way pedestrians tend to interact with automobiles in that community. Claire |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: GUEST,Neil D Date: 23 Aug 08 - 11:58 AM I think that means the crossing traffic has more money. ;^) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 23 Aug 08 - 12:23 PM "Ped Xing" What are Peds? And why do they X? Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: ClaireBear Date: 23 Aug 08 - 12:31 PM Except when you read it on the street, in which case it reads PED In which case what is a XING? And why does it PED? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: RangerSteve Date: 23 Aug 08 - 01:21 PM Similar to the "Longer Green" mentioned above are the signs around my area that state: "Delayed Green Wait" Does anyone know if waits come in other colors? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: Anne Lister Date: 23 Aug 08 - 05:11 PM My personal favourite from here in the UK is "Changed Priorities Ahead". Quite philosophical but also worrying - in fact, I find I'm totally preoccupied with worrying about what my priorities were and just how they might change after passing the sign. And here in Wales there's more entertainment to be had with the juxtaposition of Welsh and English - what exactly is a slow araf, for example? But in terms of grammar, both my husband and I have spent many moments discussing how much better they might have phrased the recent "Don't Drive Tired". Anne |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 23 Aug 08 - 07:52 PM One I remember is "Keep off from the grass." But those two should have been pushed off the lookout. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 23 Aug 08 - 08:29 PM "Road Plant Ahead" Should I water it, or feed it? ... and will it eat me? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: Richard Bridge Date: 24 Aug 08 - 04:23 AM Likewise "Heavy Plant Crossing". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: Nigel Parsons Date: 24 Aug 08 - 01:11 PM The classic photo is of someone reading "The Day of the Triffids" in front of the above sign! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 25 Aug 08 - 12:43 PM I think that Ped Xing is a good sign. It's 'right-brain' language, as I was talking about above. Especially with a picture of a ped, as is usually the case. Same with 'Don't drive tired' and Texas's 'Drive Friendly.' However, I think 'Opposing traffic has longer green' is a ridiculous sign. I suppose they are talking about an intersection where traffic going one way is allowed to move before traffic going the opposite way. (At first I thought it meant they had a bigger strip of grass somewhere.) I tried to think of a good sign for this, then decided that a flow like that is going to be dangerous no matter what sign they post, and they simply shouldn't allow it. As for 'Change priorities ahead' - what does it mean? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: Donuel Date: 25 Aug 08 - 01:33 PM Even the Rosetta Stone must have a few errors that could use correction. God knows the bible has been revised, redacted and extended. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Aug 08 - 04:46 PM Yeah--changed from what someone wanted to say to what someone wanted it to mean. Funny how that works. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: Anne Lister Date: 25 Aug 08 - 05:01 PM The first time I saw Ped Xing I had absolutely NO idea what it meant, and therefore the image of the Ped didn't help. I really thought it must be some transliteration of a Chinese sign. Yes, I could understand "Don't Drive Tired", just as I can understand "Tomato's cheaper" but it doesn't make me happy with the way the language has been used. Not everyone's right brain language works the same way! Anne |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: PoppaGator Date: 25 Aug 08 - 06:39 PM My turn to play the pedant: The word is comeuppance, not up-commence! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: dick greenhaus Date: 25 Aug 08 - 09:54 PM The old classic (no more, alas) in New York was "Commit No Nuisance" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 25 Aug 08 - 10:31 PM 'Not everyone's right brain language works the same way!' This is true. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: Gurney Date: 25 Aug 08 - 11:39 PM I'm glad PoppaGator posted. I was going to ask. 60-year-old is historic, Bee-dubya-ell? I have articles of clothing older than that! More power to their felt-tips. Old sub-literacy is just as jarring as new. An unknown pedant used to correct internal management notices posted by our local airline. They were regularly apoplectic and threatened dismissal. It wasn't me. I only cut pictures from the works magazine and added speech-bubbles. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: Bert Date: 26 Aug 08 - 01:07 AM non-native-English-speakers (Did you ever notice how hard it is to make that phrase truly comprehensible in writing, by the way?... You could just call them Wogs:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: Paul Burke Date: 26 Aug 08 - 04:59 AM On the Hoo peninsular Aaarrrgh! Stap me vitals! as they might say in an adjacent thread. "Peninsular" is an adjective. The noun is "peninsula". I like the road signs that say things like "Use both lanes for junction 32". I think they mean use either lane- or else they are encouraging drivers to straddle the markings. Not to mention the roadworks signs: "Delays possible until February 2009". I silently pray that my delay will be somewhat shorter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: GUEST,Dáithí Date: 26 Aug 08 - 05:21 AM A Particular favourite of mine is "Road Works Ahead"... I'm so glad it does! D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: Anne Lister Date: 26 Aug 08 - 06:23 AM Dear Bert "non-native-English-speakers" means people who don't have English as their first language but who have learnt to speak it nonetheless. Which is a large part of the world. I hope I'm taking you too seriously, but the problem for me is that the word "wog" has only racist connotations. Anne |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler Date: 26 Aug 08 - 08:07 AM I get confused on a straight road where the road narrows from two lanes to one lane and I see the sign "Merge in turn". What turn? it's straight! The more disturbing one is occasionaly seen at road works. "Cat's eyes removed" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: Mr Red Date: 26 Aug 08 - 08:14 AM "The word is comeuppance, not up-commence! " Gotcha. The UK used to have temproary road signs by temproary traffic lights that said "Wait While Red Light Shows" Which means exactly what it says............... In London. But in Barnsley it means wait until. You can argue who is right, but London is still wrong - for ingnoring the rest of the country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: Mr Red Date: 27 Aug 08 - 03:36 AM Now here's a question. Did Mae West ever get her comeuppance? & see her big boy? Or did he "come up and see her one time"? Yea Yea pedants take note, she never said "sometime" in films - then she realised it was an expected catchphrase - I have seen old TV interviews where she said "sometime" on the docks after disembarking at Southampton. The interviewer was a trifle nervous. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: Bill D Date: 27 Aug 08 - 06:45 PM I don't dare take a Sharpie with me, I'd never get where I'm going for stopping to correct and 'explicate' signs. (It's a good thing I don't know who puts up those banners at the bottom of TV news programs!) Some are just bad punctuation...(the abominable misuse of plural/possessive apostrophes)..some are spelling mistakes... some are execrable misuse of the correct word..(the except/accept type).. ...but some signs are just a result of trusting phrasing on a sign to some sign department where no one understands what good usage is, and how to communicate and not obfuscate! This often arises, as in starting threads at Mudcat *grin*... from someone using vernacular or abbreviations without ASKING others whether it makes sense or not. Just because YOU know what you meant, it does not follow that others can read your mind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: ClaireBear Date: 27 Aug 08 - 08:15 PM Regarding up-commence... I postulate that thread-starter had simply moved the "up" before the "come" in "come-uppance" (unfortunately, in the process, using the wrong vowel in "-commance") as a precaution, in case "up" should be construed as a preposition (even though, in this case, it was clearly not), as sort of a nod to Churchill's supposed comment on the inadvisability of ending sentences with prepositions: "This is the type of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put." Whew! That was hard to write. Probably even harder to read. Sorry! Claire |
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Subject: RE: BS: Pedants' up-commence From: Michael Date: 28 Aug 08 - 03:47 AM And one I've mentioned elsewhere: "Bridge strengthening works" So it's not a pointless activity then Mike |
