Subject: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: JohnInKansas Date: 16 Feb 14 - 09:26 PM A recent "scan and destroy" to get rid of junk on the bookshelf raised the question of how/when what's been popular at an earlier time becomes "folk" in the sense of being sung/performed enough to be remembered by later generations. This is probably a more appropriate question with respect to the US than to places with longer music histories, but it is obvious that "pop songs" (Broadsides, music hall, etc) stuff has (in the opinion of some) slipped in with the ancient traditional stuff, both here and elsewhere. The book that sparked the thought was: Joel Whitburn's Pop Memories - 1890 1954 Subtitled: THE HISTORY OF AMERICAN POPULAR MUSIC ISBN 0-89820-083-0 Compiled from America's popular music charts 1890-1954. Record Research Inc, P.O. Box 200, Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin 53051 Copyright © 1986 by Joel Whitburn The book itself is 666 pages (an ominous sign?) and my (printable) pdf is a little over 300 MB; but I had the temporary delusion that the list of "Number One Songs" at the end might be quickly cleaned up and could be of interest here. Unfortunately, when converted to plain text (with some of the OCR bloopers corrected) it's still about 30 pages (in Word). (And it wasn't all that quick.) The book is vague about what charts were used, and there have been a lot of them. The "Number 1 List" shows the date when the song/tune first appeared at #1 on any chart, the number of weeks it was on any of the several charts, the name of the piece, and a performer. I'm not sure the #1 list was too inspiring, but the full text listings of "everything that charted" might contain some prospects for revival, and certainly contains lots of "once famous" performers of whom I know nothing. A BRIEF SAMPLE of the first few years: 1890 1. 8/02 6 Semper Fidelis ... U.S. Marine Band 2. 9/13 6 Washington Post... U.S. Marine Band 3. 10/25 4 The Thunderer .. . U.S. Marine Band 1891 1. 3/07 4 Little'Liza Loves You ...Len Spencer 2. 4/04 10 The Laughing Song ...George Washington Johnson 3. 6/13 4 Michael Casey As A Physician ... Russell Hunting 4. 7/11 5 The Whistling Coon...George Washington Johnson 5. 8/22 6 The Mocking Bird ... John Yorke Atlee 6. 9/19 4 Pat Kelly As A Police Justice... Dan Kelly 7. 10/17 7 Turkey In The Straw ...Billy Golden 8. 12/05 5 Drill, Ye Terriers, Drill...George J. Gaskin 1892 1. 1/09 3 Slide, Kelly, Slide ... George J. Gaskin 2. 1/30 8 Ta-Ra-Ra-Boom Der E .. .Len Spencer 3. 3/26 6 The Picture Turned Toward The Wall... Manhansett Quartette 4. 5/07 3 Sally In Our Alley...Manhansett Quartette 5. 5/28 3 The Song That Reached My Heart... Joe Natus 6. 6/18 3 Throw Him Down, McCloskey... Charles Marsh 7. 7/09 5 Michael Casey At The Telephone ... Russell Hunting 8. 8/13 6 The Old Folks At Home ...Len Spencer 9. 9/24 2 The Pretty Red Rose ... Will Denny 10. 10/08 6 Michael Casey Taking The Census... Russell Hunting 11. 11/19 2 Near It... Len Spencer 12. 12/03 4 Love's Old Sweet Song ...Thomas Bott 13. 12/31 4 Daddy Wouldn't Buy Me A Bow-Wow... Dan Quinn 1893 1. 1/28 5 The Bowery ... Dan Quinn 2. 3/04 8 O Promise Me .. . George J. Gaskin 3. 4/29 10 After The Ball... George J. Gaskin 4. 7/08 3 My Country 'Tis Of Thee...Jules Levy 5. 7/29 3 Mamie, Come And Kiss Your Honey Boy ... Len Spencer 6. 8/19 4 Two Little Girls In Blue ...J.W. Myers 7. 9/16 9 Daisy Bell... Dan Quinn 8. 11/18 8 The Fatal Wedding ...George J. Gaskin ... ... 1898 1. 1/15 4 On The Banks Of The Wabash... Steve Porter 2. 2/12 3 My Old Kentucky Home ...Edison Male Quartette 3. 4/02 7 Break The News To Mother... George J. Gaskin 4. 5/21 5 Uncle Josh's Arrival In New York ... Cal Stewart 5. 6/25 3 I Don't Like No Cheap Man... Len Spencer 6. 7/16 6 She Was Bred In Old Kentucky... George J. Gaskin 7. 8/27 4 She's More To Be Pitied Than Censured... Steve Porter 8. 9/24 3 I'm Old But I'm Awfully Tough (Laughing Song)...Cal Stewart 9. 10/15 4 She Was Happy Till She Met You ... Dan Quinn 10. 11/12 4 At A Georgia Camp Meeting... Dan Quinn 11. 12/10 10 My Old New Hampshire Home... George J. Gaskin Worth discussion? Comment? Giggles? John |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 17 Feb 14 - 03:06 AM the answer my friend is blowing in the wind....... |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Eldergirl Date: 17 Feb 14 - 03:35 AM Cheers John! Of all the titles you have listed, I recognise maybe half a dozen. Turkey in the Straw has hung on in there as a tune rather than a song. And Little Liza Loves You, if it's the same song, has morphed into Little Eyes, I Love You down in Cornwall, where it turns up regularly at singarounds, (honey, honey, honeeeey..) BBC4 shows reruns of Top of the Pops from the 60s when it started, and some of the stuff on there was quite rightly never heard of again, apart from the repeat of course. They do say that the cream rises to the top, and gently floats there, waiting to be skimmed off. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 17 Feb 14 - 03:49 AM John - I've posted the words of 1983's The Fatal Wedding by George J. Gaskin on this thread Lyr Add: The Fatal Wedding (Chad Morgan) Chad Morgan, an Australian singer has been credited with these words for decades - every Sydney session singer (a slight exaggeration) knows he wrote the song! We sang it last week at a sessions on 14th Feb - the theme of the night was Love! I'll have to ask Joe to change the subject on my post to give George J. Gaskin the credit he deserves. sandra |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Will Fly Date: 17 Feb 14 - 03:50 AM There's stuff there that I play today: Turkey In The Straw Love's Old Sweet Song Daisy Bell At A Georgia Camp Meeting The last one, in particular, is a great tune, and one of the first things I ever learned to play with a jazz band. It strikes me on many occasions, these days, that the jazz stuff I used to play in the 1960s was around 20-40 years old in those days -and now it's 70-90 years old. And the music hall stuff I used to play at that time was about 60 years old - now it's over 100 years old! Older than some of the stuff that we take for granted as folk these days, and which gets played in folk clubs. Which only goes to show that, in the end, it's the tune that matters - it either works or it doesn't - and if it works, it works. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 17 Feb 14 - 03:54 AM songs I recognise Turkey In The Straw ...Billy Golden Drill, Ye Terriers, Drill...George J. Gaskin Ta-Ra-Ra-Boom Der E .. .Len Spencer Sally In Our Alley... The Old Folks At Home ...Len Spencer Daddy Wouldn't Buy Me A Bow-Wow... Dan Quinn After The Ball... George J. Gaskin My Country 'Tis Of Thee...Jules Levy My Old Kentucky Home ... definitely folk! |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: JohnInKansas Date: 17 Feb 14 - 04:50 AM While I'm by no means a student of folk, it appears that early immigrants settled mostly along the east coast of the US, and tended to stick together and sing/play the music they brought with them. As migration westward began, the migrating groups were sometimes more mixed so new songs relating to migration and settlement appeared. The "folk music" collectors I've looked at - Warner and the Lomax tribe etc - tended to make much of "prison songs" and "chain gang chants." The (un)Civil War, Prohibition (and the whole "Temperance" movement) and political campaigns produced a lot of songs, most which fortunately (opinion) have died without applause. While Europe seems to have called them "Music Halls" maybe "Vaudeville" was the US approximation(?). There have certainly been differences one can point to, but it's a puzzle, for me, which of them may have mattered. I'm not sure that the "charts" will indicate any significant differences between the evolution of music here and there - and there - and there. Maybe it's just an idle curiosity. John |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: JohnInKansas Date: 17 Feb 14 - 04:56 AM 1890 - 1893 + 1898 in first post: 1894 1. 1/13 3 Casey As Insurance Agent... Russell Hunting 2. 2/03 5 Sweeet Marie ... George J. Gaskin 3. 3/10 5 The Liberty Bell... U.S. Marine Band 4. 4/14 7 Say An Revoir, But Not Goodbye... Edward M. Favor 5. 6/02 4 Tankee Doodle ,. . Vess Ossman 6. 6/30 4 Dem Golden Slippers .. .Silas Leachman 7. 7/28 3 We Were Sweethearts, Nell And I... George J. Gaskin 8. 8/18 3 Lindley, Does You Love Me? ... Dan Quinn 9. 10/06 4 My Pearl Is A Bowery Girl ... Dan Quinn 10. 11/03 3 Casey At Denny Murphy's Wake ... Russell Hunting 11. 11/24 6 And Her Golden Hair Was Hanging Down Her Back ... Dan Quinn 1895 1. 1/05 5 Little Alabama Coon... Len Spencer 2. 2/09 9 The Sidewalks Of New York ... Dan Quinn 3. 3/21 5 My Best Girl's A New Yorker ... Edward M. Favor 4. 4/13 4 The Sidewalks Of New York ... J.W. Myers 5. 4/25 5 Dat New Bully ... Len Spencer 6. 5/30 3 Cocoanut Dance... Vess Ossman 7. 6/15 7 El CapitanMarch ...Sousa's Band 8. 8/01 6 Just Tell Them That You Saw Me ... J.W. Myers 9. 8/03 3 Washington Post March ...Sousa's Band 10. 8/24 10 The Band Played On ... Dan Quinn 11. 11/02 5 The Little Lost Child ...Dan Quinn 1896 1. 1/04 6 The Sunshine Of Paradise Alley... George J. Gaskin 2. 2/15 5 She May Have Seen Better Days ... George J. Gaskin 3. 6/20 3 A Hot Time On The Levee ... Len Spencer with Vess Ossman 4. 9/12 4 Down In Poverty Row ...George J. Gaskin 5. 10/10 4 On The Benches In The Park... George J. Gaskin 6. 11/07 5 In The Baggage Coach Ahead ... Dan Quinn 7. 12/12 7 A Hot Time In The Old Town ... Dan Quinn 1897 1. 1/30 3 A Hot Time In The Old Town ... Len Spencer 2. 2/20 4 Oh, Mr. Johnson, Turn Me Loose... Len Spencer 3. 3/20 4 My Gal Is A Highborn Lady ... Len Spencer 4. 4/17 5 My Mother Was A Lady ...Dan Quinn 5. 5/22 8 Sweet Rosie O'Grady .. .George J. Gaskin 6. 7/17 8 The Stars And Stripes Forever... Sousa's Band 7. 9/11 4 There's A Little Star Shining For You .. . Dan Quinn 8. 11/06 10 On The Banks Of The Wabash... George J. Gaskin 1898 See first post 1899 1. 2/18 4 Kiss Me, Honey, Do ...Arthur Collins 2. 3/18 2 When You Ain't Got No More Money, Well, You Needn't Come Around .. .Arthur Collins 3. 4/01 4 I Guess I'll Have To Telegraph My Baby .. .Arthur Collins 4. 4/29 4 Hello, Ma Baby .. . Arthur Collins 5. 5/27 6 Hello! Ma Baby... Len Spencer 6. 7/08 3 My Wild Irish Rose .. .George J. Gaskin 7. 7/29 6 My Wild Irish Rose .. .Albert Campbell 8. 9/09 5 Gypsy Love Song ... William F. Hooley 9. 10/14 2 A Picture No Artist Can Paint... Steve Porter 10. 10/28 7 Curse Of The Dreamer...Dan Quinn 11. 12/16 7 I'd Leave My Happy Home For You ... Arthur Collins 1900 1. 2/03 6 Mandy Lee... Arthur Collins 2. 3/17 3 When Cloe Sings A Song .. .George J. Gaskin 3. 4/07 5 When You Were Sweet Sixteen... Jere Mahoney 4. 5/12 5 A Bird In A Gilded Cage ...Jere Mahoney 5. 6/16 6 A Bird In A Gilded Cage ...Steve Porter 6. 7/28 5 Ma Tiger Lily... Len Spencer 7. 9/01 6 Ma Tiger Lily... Arthur Collins 8. 10/13 4 Because... Haydn Quartet 9. 11/10 8 When You Were Sweet Sixteen ... George J.Gaskin (54 more years in the list, and the number of songs at each year seems to grow as more "chartists" appeared.) John |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: GUEST,Seaham cemetry Date: 17 Feb 14 - 09:14 AM In some of the folk clubs I go to, it seems to become folk when some crusty old person in the corner pulls you to one side at the bar and says "It doesnt go like that, you should sing it like this, la la la etc" |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 17 Feb 14 - 11:56 AM George J. Gaskin- a man who should be better known. A famous tenor as well as composer, he popularized many songs that were long-remembered, if not by the latest generations. Wikipedia gives a list of 26 of his recordings that still exist. Seventeen are songs I remember. "Drill ye Terriers (Tarriers) Drill" from 1891 certainly made it into current times, as well as the old wedding cliché, "O Promise Me." "After the Ball" and "Slide Kelly Slide", ...... These songs are "folk" as far as I am concerned. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Bert Date: 17 Feb 14 - 02:59 PM Tomorrow. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 17 Feb 14 - 03:46 PM "Daddy wouldn't buy me a bow-wow" (1892) was sung by Helen Mirren in the film "The Fiendish Plot of dr. Fu Manchu," 1980. This film failure also had Sid Caesar in the cast, and Peter Sellers as Fu. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: JohnInKansas Date: 17 Feb 14 - 04:45 PM A few more: 1901 1. 1/05 7 Ma Blushin' Rosie ... Albert Campbell 2. 2/23 3 The Stars And Stripes Forever ... Sousa's Band 3. 3/16 3 When Reuben Comes To Town ... S.H. Dudley 4. 4/06 3 Good-Bye, Dolly Gray .. . Big Four Quartet 5. 5/11 7 Tell Me, Pretty Maiden ...Harry MacDonough & Grace Spencer 6. 6/29 3 Tell Me, Pretty Maiden ...Byron G. Harlan, Joe Belmont, Frank Stanley, & Florodora Girls 7. 7/20 3 Jim Lawson's Horse Trade With Deacon Witherspoon... Cal Stewart 8. 8/10 5 Hello Central, Give Me Heaven ... Byron G. Harlan 9. 9/14 1 In The Shade Of The Palm... J.W. Myers 10. 9/21 3 Uncle Josh's Huskin' Bee Dance... Cal Stewart 11. 10/12 4 The Tale Of The Bumble Bee... Harry MacDonough 12. 11/09 3 Absence Makes The Heart Grow Fonder ... Harry MacDonough 13. 11/30 3 Good Evening, Carrie .. .Dan Quinn 14. 12/21 4 Any Old Place I Hang My Hat Is "Home, Sweet Home" To Me ... Will Denny 1902 1. 1/18 5 Good Morning, Carrie .. .Bert Williams & George Walker 2. 3/01 11 ArkansawTraveler... Len Spencer 3. 5/10 6 On A Sunday Afternoon ...J.W. Myers 4. 6/21 5 Way Down In Old Indiana... J.W. Myers 5. 7/26 8 Bill Bailey, Won't You Please Come Home .. .Arthur Collins 6. 9/20 3 The Mansion Of Aching Hearts... Byron G. Harlan 7. 10/11 4 The Mansion Of Aching Hearts ... Harry MacDonough 8. 11/08 7 In The Good Old Summer Time ... J.W. Myers 9. 12/27 3 Under The Bamboo Tree ...Arthur Collins 1903 1. 1/17 5 Down Where The Wurzburger Flows .. .Arthur Collins & Byron Harlan 2. 2/21 5 Come Down, Ma Evening Star ... Mina Hickman 3. 3/28 6 In The Good Old Summer Time ... Haydn Quartet 4. 5/09 4 In The Good Old Summer Time ... Sousa's Band 5. 6/06 4 In The Sweet Bye And Bye... Harry MacDonough & John Bieling 6. 7/04 4 Hiawatha... Harry MacDonough 7. 8/01 4 Come Down, Ma Ev'ning Star ... Henry Burr 8. 8/29 4 Uncle Josh On An Automobile... Cal Stewart 9. 9/26 5 Harrah For Baffin's Bay ...Arthur Collins & Byron Harlan 10. 10/31 4 Good-Bye, Eliza Jane ...Arthur Collins 11. 12/05 5 Any Rags? ... Arthur Collins 1904 1. 1/09 7 Bedelia ... Harry MacDonough & Haydn Quartet 2. 2/27 3 Bedelia... Billy Murray' 3. 3/19 4 Silver Threads Among The Gold ... Richard Jose 4. 4/16 5 Navajo ... Billy Murray 5. 5/21 4 Blue Bell... Frank Stanley & Byron G. Harlan 6. 6/18 3 Blue Bell... Harry MacDonough & Haydn Quartet 7. 7/09 2 Toyland ... Conine Morgan & Haydn Quartet 8. 7/23 9 Meet Me In St. Louis, Louis... Billy Murray 9. 9/24 2 All Aboard For Dreamland ... Byron G. Harlan 10. 10/08 3 Alexander ... Billy Murray 11. 10/29 10 Sweet Adeline (You're The Flower Of My Heart)...Haydn Quartet 12. 12/24 3 You're The Flower Of My Heart, Sweet Adeline ...Columbia Male Quartet (Peerless Quartet) 1905 1. 1/28 4 Come Take A Trip In My Air-Ship ... Billy Murray 2. 2/25 8 Yankee Doodle Boy ... Billy Murray 3. 4/22 7 In The Shade Of The Old Apple Tree ... Henry Burr 4. 6/10 11 The Preacher And The Bear ... Arthur Collins 5. 7/15 5 Give My Regards To Broadway... Billy Murray 6. 9/30 2 Dearie ... Conine Morgan & Haydn Quartet 7. 10/14 7 In My Merry Oldsmobile ,. .Billy Murray 8. 12/02 5 Where The Morning Glories Twine Around The Door ... Byron G. Harlan John |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: JennieG Date: 17 Feb 14 - 06:00 PM My heavens, I know quite a lot of these.......and what's more, can remember the words too! |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 17 Feb 14 - 07:33 PM More complete lists are available on line, starting at year 1900, for example, year 1900 at http://tsort.info/music/yr1900.htm These are the Billboard Chart entries. Joel Whitburn's book is probably the best for pre-1900, although longer lists are available on line. A longer list for 1890: 1. Maple Leaf Rag (piano roll, Scott Joplin) 2. Hello Ma Baby 3. Stars and Stripes Forever 4. Whistling Rufus 5. The Laughing Song 6. Turkey in the Straw 7. Hot Time in the old Town 8. My Old Kentucky Home 9. Washington Post March 10. Mammas Black Baby Boy 11. El Capitan March 12. Liberty Bell March From a site called rate your music. Hal Leonard's book also lists songs of the decades. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Eldergirl Date: 17 Feb 14 - 08:32 PM Come take a trip in my Air-ship, as sung by Jeff Warner? Lovely! In the shade of the old apple tree was a fave of my Mum's, used as a sig tune by her fave orchestra (Eric Jupp) when I were knee high to a hedgehog. I reckon quite a few of those songs and tunes would now class as 'folk', or at least 'community'! |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: JohnInKansas Date: 18 Feb 14 - 01:12 AM Q- The whole book (see first post) has lists of "all songs that were on the charts" for the time periods indicated. Unfortuantely it doesn't say "which charts." The ones I've listed are only the ones that made the #1 position on "some chart or another," according to a separate list at the back end of the book. So far as I can tell, the book lacks identification of what charts were included, which would have given it a little more "sccholarly authenticity;" but the full text listings probably give a good idea of the kinds ot things popular enough to sell to a few people at some times. John |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: J-boy Date: 18 Feb 14 - 01:23 AM when nobody asks that question. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: JohnInKansas Date: 18 Feb 14 - 01:32 AM Another list from the book: (WARNING: LONG POST) THE 1OO MOST-RECORDED SONGS 1890-1954 (Dates appear to be when first published?) 1. Silent Night (1818) — Joseph Muhr & Franz Gruber 2. St. Louis Blues (1914) — W.C. Handy 3. Star Dust (1929) — Hoagy Carmichael & Mitchell Parish 4. Body And Soul (1930) — Johnny Green, Ed Heyman, Robert Sauer & Frank Eyton 5. Summertime (1935) — George Gershwin & Dubose Heyward 6. The Old Folks At Home (Swanee River) (1851) — Stephen Foster 7. Tea For Two (1925) — Vincent Youmans & Irving Caesar 8. White Christmas (1942) — Irving Berlin 9. All The Things You Are (1939) — Jerome Kern & Oscar Hammerstein II 10. Night And Day (1932) — Cole Porter 11. Begin The Beguine (1935) — Cole Porter 12. Danny Boy (1913) — Traditional, adapted by Fred Weatherly 13. Sweet Georgia Brown (1925) — Maceo Pinkard, Kenneth Casey & Ben Bernie 14. The Man I Love (1924) — George Gershwin & Ira Gershwin 15. Over The Rainbow (1939) — Harold Arlen & E.Y. Harburg 16. Caravan (1937) — Duke Ellington, Juan Tizol & Irving Mills 17. After You've Gone (1918) — Turner Layton & Harry Creamer 18. Yesterdays (1933) — Jerome Kern & Otto Harbach 19. Ain't Misbehavin' (1929) — Fats Waller, Harry Brooks & Andy Razaf 20. Lover, Come Back To Me (1928) — Sigmund Romberg & Oscar Hammerstein II 21. What Is This Thing Called Love? (1930) — Cole Porter 22. I Can't Get Started (1936) — Vernon Duke & Ira Gershwin 23. Jingle Bells (1857) — J.S. Pierpont 24. I Can't Give You Anything But Love (1928) — Jimmy McHugh & Dorothy Fields 25. My Old Kentucky Home (1853) — Stephen Foster 26. When The Saints Go Marching In (1896) — James Black & Katharine Purvis 27. Tenderly (1947) — Walter Gross & Jack Lawrence 28. Blue Skies (1927) — Irving Berlin 29. September Song (1938) — Kurt Weill & Maxwell Anderson 30. My Blue Heaven (1927) — Walter Donaldson & George Whiting 31. Always (1925) — Irving Berlin 32. Tiger Rag (1917) — Harry DeCosta & Original Dixieland Jazz Band 33. The Rosary (1898) — Ethelbert Nevins & Robert Cameron Rogers 34. Home, Sweet Home (1823) — Henry Bishop & John Howard Payne 35. Smoke Gets In Your Eyes (1933) — Jerome Kern & Otto Harbach 36. These Foolish Things (Remind Me Of You) (1936) — Jack Strachey, Harry Link & Holt Marvell 37. Old Man River (1928) — Jerome Kern & Oscar Hammerstein II 38. Limehouse Blues (1924) — Philip Braham & Douglas Furber 39. Sheik Of Araby (1923) — Ted Snyder, Harry B. Smith & Francis Wheeler 40. Embraceable You (1930) — George Gershwin & Ira Gershwin 41. My Funny Valentine (1937) — Richard Rodgers & Lorenz Hart 42. Stormy Weather (1933) — Harold Arlen & Ted Koehler 43. 12th Street Rag (1914) — Euday L. Bowman 44. Blue Moon (1935) — Richard Rodgers & Lorenz Hart 45. The Battle Hymn Of The Republic (1863) — Julia Ward Howe & William Steffe 46. My Melancholy Baby (1913) — Ernie Burnett & George Norton 47. I Got Rhythm (1930) — George Gershwin & Ira Gershwin 48. Honeysuckle Rose (1929) — Fats Waller & Andy Razaf 49. Love's Old Sweet Song (1884) — G. Clifton Bingham & James Mulloy 50. The Stars And Stripes Forever (1896) — John Philip Sousa 51. Where Or When (1937) — Richard Rodgers & Lorenz Hart 52. Laura (1945) — David Raskin & Johnny Mercer 53. Mood Indigo (1931) — Duke Ellington, Barney Bigard & Irving Mills 54. The Christinas Song (1946) — Mel Torme & Robert Wells 55. Love For Sale (1930) — Cole Porter 56. Georgia On My Mind (1930) — Hoagy Carmichael & Stuart Gorrell 57. San Antonio Rose (1939) — Bob Wills 58. How High The Moon (1940) — Morgan Lewis & Nancy Hamilton 59. Someone To Watch Over Me (1926) — George Gershwin & Ira Gershwin 60. I Only Have Eyes For You (1934) — Harry Warren & Al Dubin 61. Sweet Sue, Just You (1928) — Victor Young & Will Harris 62. The Darktown Strutters' Ball (1917) — Shelton Brooks 63. On The Sunny Side Of The Street (1930) — Jimmy McHugh & Dorothy Fields 64. Silver Threads Among The Gold (1877) — Hart P. Danks & Eben Rexford 65. I'm In The Mood For Love (1935) — Jimmy McHugh & Dorothy Fields 66. Deep Purple (1939) — Peter DeRose & Mitchell Parish 67. Sometimes I'm Happy (1925) — Vincent Youmans & Irving Caesar 68. I've Got You Under My Skin (1934) — Cole Porter 69. The Star-Spangled Banner (1814) — Francis Scott Key 70. Easy To Love (1936) — Cole Porter 71. Avalon (1921) — E.G. DeSylva, Vincent Rose & Al Jolson 72. Willow Weep For Me (1932) — Ann Ronell 73. Dinah (1925) — Harry Akst, Sam Lewis & Joe Young 74. Moonglow (1934) — Will Hudson, Eddie DeLange & Irving Mills 75. Auld Lang Syne (1711) — adapted by Robert Burns 76. Carry Me Back To Old Virginny (1879) — James A. Bland 77. Alexander's Ragtime Band (1911) — Irving Berlin 78. Santa Claus Is Comin' To Town (1934) — J. Fred Coots & Haven Gillespie 79. Basin Street Blues (1929) — Spencer Williams 80. Sweet Lorraine (1935) — Clifford Burwell & Mitchell Parish 81. I'll Remember April (1942) — Don Raye, Gene DePaul & Patricia Johnston 82. Rudolph, The Red-Nosed Reindeer (1949) — Johnny Marks 83. Solitude (1934) — Duke Ellington 84. Some Of These Days (1910) — Shelton Brooks 85. Stella By Starlight (1947) — Victor Young & Ned Washington 86. Maple Leaf Rag (1899) — Scott Joplin 87. Lover (1933) — Richard Rodgers & Lorenz Hart 88. The Way You Look Tonight (1936) — Jerome Kern & Dorothy Fields 89. Pennies From Heaven (1936) — Arthur Johnston & John Burke 90. Dancing In The Dark (1931) — Howard Dietz & Arthur Schwartz 91. Indiana (1917) — James Hanley & Ballad MacDonald 92. April In Paris (1932) — Vernon Duke 93. As Time Goes By (1931) — Herman Hupfield 94. Royal Garden Blues (1923) — Spencer Williams & Clarence Williams 95. The Very Thought Of You (1934) — Ray Noble 96. Lover Man (1942) — Jimmy Davis, Roger Ramirez, & Jimmy Sherman 97. 'Round Midnight (1947) — Thelonious Monk & Cootie Williams 98. Perdido (1942) — Juan Tizol, Ervin Drake & Hans Lengsfelder 99. All Of Me (1931) — Seymour Simons & Gerald Marks 100. What's New? (1939) — Johnny Burke & Robert Haggart John |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 18 Feb 14 - 04:25 AM this time it would probably be faster to list the titles I don't know! thanks, John for a fascinating thread sandra |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: GUEST,eldergirl on another computer Date: 18 Feb 14 - 05:46 AM I agree with Sandra. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: GUEST,Chuck Date: 18 Feb 14 - 01:58 PM 'In some of the folk clubs I go to, it seems to become folk when some crusty old person in the corner pulls you to one side at the bar and says "It doesnt go like that, you should sing it like this, la la la etc"' If you were to extrapolate this thinking to its ultimate conclusion then surely there would be no new folk songs? |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Bert Date: 18 Feb 14 - 02:19 PM Perhaps it gets to be Folk when it gets on Mudcat. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: JohnInKansas Date: 18 Feb 14 - 04:15 PM Another few years. Remember that these are just the ones that made it to Number 1 on one of the charts. 1906 1. 1/06 3 Everybody Works But Father ... Billy Murray 2. 1/27 2 How'd You Like To Spoon With Me? .. . Corrine Morgan & Haydn Quartet 3. 2/10 9 Wait Till The Sun Shines, Nellie ... Byron G. Harlan 4. 2/24 1 Wait Till The Sun Shines, Nellie ... Harry Tally 5. 4/21 3 So Long, Mary .. . Corrine Morgan 6. 5/12 10 The Grand Old Rag ... Billy Murray 7. 7/21 9 Nobody ... Bert Williams 8. 9/22 4 The Good Old U.S.A .. .Byron G. Harlan 9. 10/20 3 Love Me And The World Is Mine ... Albert Campbell 10. 11/10 7 Love Me And The World Is Mine ... Henry Burr 11. 12/29 2 Let It Alone .. . Bert Williams 1907 1. 1/12 2 Camp Meetin' Time...Arthur Collins & Byron Harlan 2. 1/26 2 He's A Cousin Of Mine...Bert Williams 3. 2/12 10 My Gal Sal... Byron G. Harlan 4. 4/20 2 I Just Can't Make My Eyes Behave... Ada Jones 5. 5/04 2 Because You're You ...Harry MacDonough & Elise Stevenson 6. 5/18 11 School Days (When We Were A Couple Of Kids)...Byron G. Harlan 7. 8/03 3 Nobody's Little Girl...Byron G. Harlan 8. 8/24 4 I Pagliacci • Vesti La Giubba (On With The Play) ... Enrico Caruso 9. 9/21 9 Harrigan ... Billy Murray 10. 11/23 6 Let's Take An Old-Fashioned Walk... Ada Jones & Billy Murray 1908 1. 1/04 5 My Dear ... Harry MacDonough 2. 2/08 6 Under Any Old Flag At All ... Billy Murray 3. 3/21 6 As Long As The World Rolls On... Alan Turner 4. 5/02 3 Wouldn't You Like To Have Me For A Sweetheart?...Ada Jones & Billy Murray 5. 5/23 5 The Glow-Worm .. . Victor Orchestra 6. 6/27 5 The Glow-Worm .. . Lucy Isabelle Marsh 7. 8/01 4 Are You Sincere? ... Elise Stevenson 8. 8/29 4 When We Are M-A-Double-R-I-E-D... Ada Jones & Billy Murray 9. 9/26 5 Cuddle Up A Little Closer, Lovey Mine... Ada Jones & Billy Murray 10. 10/31 7 Take Me Out To The Ball Game ... Billy Murray & Haydn Quartet 11. 12/12 5 Sunbonnet Sue ... Harry MacDonough & Haydn Quartet 1909 1. 1/23 5 Good Evening, Caroline ...Frank Stanley & Elise Stevenson 2. 2/27 6 The Right Church, But The Wrong Pew .. . Arthur Collins & Byron Harlan 3. 4/10 9 Shine On, Harvest Moon ...Harry MacDonough & "Miss Walton" (Elise Stevenson) 4. 6/12 5 Shine On, Harvest Moon...Ada Jones & Billy Murray 5. 7/13 3 To The End Of The World With You ... Henry Burr 6. 8/07 5 The Yama Yama Man...Ada Jones & Victor Light Opera Co. 7. 9/11 8 I Wonder Who's Kissing Her Now ... Henry Burr 8. 11/06 2 I've Got Rings On My Fingers ... Blanche Ring 9. 11/20 4 I've Got Rings On My Fingers ... Ada Jones 10. 12/18 11 Put On Your Old Gray Bonnet... Haydn Quartet 1910 1. 2/26 2 Carrie (Carrie Marry Harry) ... Billy Murray 2. 3/12 6 Where The River Shannon Flows ... Harry MacDonough 3. 4/23 9 By The Light Of The Silvery Moon ... Billy Murray & Haydn Quartet 4. 7/02 11 Casey Jones ... Billy Murray & American Quartet 5. 9/10 4 Call Me Up Some Rainy Afternoon ... Ada Jones, Billy Murray & American Quartet 6. 10/08 4 Every Little Movement...Harry MacDonough & Lucy Isabelle Marsh 7. 11/12 1 Tramp! Tramp! Tramp!...Frank Stanley & Byron G. Harlan 8. 11/19 2 In The Valley Of Yesterday ... Harry MacDonough 9. 12/10 4 Meet Me To-Night In Dreamland ... Henry Burr 10. 12/31 6 Play That Barber-Shop Chord ... Bert Williams 1911 1. 2/11 5 Under The Yum Yum Tree ... Arthur Collins & Byron Harlan 2. 3/18 2 Mother Machree ... Will Oakland 3. 4/01 5 Put Your Arms Around Me, Honey ... Arthur Collins & Byron Harlan 4. 5/06 2 I Love The Name Of Mary ... Will Oakland 5. 5/20 2 Come, Josephine, In My Flying Machine ...Blanche Ring 6. 6/03 3 Come, Josephine, In My Flying Machine .. . Ada Jones, Billy Murray & American Quartet 7. 6/24 7 I'm Falling In Love With Someone ... John McCormack 8. 8/12 5 Mother Machree ... John McCormack 9. 9/16 10 Alexander's Ragtime Band ... Arthur Collins & Byron Harlan 10. 11/25 1 Down By The Old Mill Stream ... Arthur Clough & Brunswick Quartet 11. 12/02 7 Let Me Call You Sweetheart... Columbia Male Quartet (Peerless Quartet) 1912 1. 1/20 7 Down By The Old Mill Stream... Harry MacDonough 2. 2/03 1 Oh, You Beautiful Doll...Billy Murray & American Quartet 3. 3/16 8 Moonlight Bay ... American Quartet 4. 5/11 2 That Haunting Melody...Al Jolson 5. 5/25 4 When I Was Twenty-One And You Were Sweet Sixteen ... Henry Burr & Albert Campbell 6. 6/22 3 Love Is Mine ... Enrico Caruso 7. 7/13 5 Ragging The Baby To Sleep ... Al Jolson 8. 8/24 6 Ragtime Cowboy Joe ... Bob Roberts 9. 9/28 2 I Love You Truly ... Elsie Baker 10. 10/12 6 Waiting For The Robert E. Lee ... Heidelberg Quintet 11. 11/23 5 Be My Little Baby Bumble Bee ... Ada Jones & Billy Murray 12. 12/28 1 Everybody Two-Step ...American Quartet They're getting into more songs I remember as "pop songs" from when I was a kid; but still only ones that lasted 30 or 40 years for me to hear. John |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: JohnInKansas Date: 18 Feb 14 - 04:27 PM Another recent thread asked for "WWI Songs." I think these are the right years, but I'm surprised that nothing much made #1 that I remember as being that kind. There are a few, but not as many as I would have expected. 1913 1. 1/04 3 Till The Sands Of The Desert Grow Cold ... Alan Turner 2. 1/25 3 Row!Row!Row!... Ada Jones 3. 2/15 6 When The Midnight Choo Choo Leaves For Alabam'... Arthur Collins & Byron Harlan 4. 3/29 2 Sympathy ... Walter Van Brunt & Helen Clark 5. 4/12 7 When I Lost You ... Henry Burr 6. 5/31 5 The Spaniard That Blighted My Life ... Al Jolson 7. 7/05 3 The Trail Of The Lonesome Pine ... Henry Burr & Albert Campbell 8. 7/26 7 When Irish Eyes Are Smiling... Chauncey Olcott 9. 9/13 6 Last Night Was The End Of The World ... Henry Burr 10. 10/04 7 You Made Me Love You, I Didn't Want To Do It.. .Al Jolson 11. 12/12 7 Peg O' My Heart... Charles Harrison 1914 1. 1/31 4 Too-Ra-Loo-Ra-Loo-Ral (That's An Irish Lullaby) ... Chauncey Olcott 2. 2/28 6 I'm On My Way To Mandalay ... Henry Burr, Albert Campbell & Will Oakland 3. 4/11 6 Rebecca Of Sunny-brook Farm ... American Quartet 4. 5/23 3 I Love The Ladies ... Arthur Collins & Byron Harlan 5. 6/13 7 The Song That Stole My Heart Away ... Henry Burr 6. 8/01 6 By The Beautiful Sea ...Heidelberg Quintet 7. 9/12 5 Cohen On The Telephone .. .Joe Hayman 8. 9/26 2 By The Beautiful Sea ...Ada Jones & Billy Watkins 9. 10/31 3 Ballin' The Jack ... Prince's Orchestra 10. 11/21 2 The Aba Daba Honeymoon... Arthur Collins & Byron Harlan 11.12/05 7 It's A Long, Long Way To Tipperary ... American Quartet 1915 1. 1/23 8 It's A Long, Long Way To Tipperary .. . John McCormack 2. 3/20 2 Chinatown, My Chinatown ... American Quartet 3. 4/03 5 Carry Me Back To Old Virginny ... Alma Gluck 4. 4/24 3 I Didn't Raise My Boy To Be A Soldier .. . Morton Harvey 5. 5/29 4 I Didn't Raise My Boy To Be A Soldier... PeerlessQuartet 6. 6/26 5 A Little Bit Of Heaven ("Shure, They Call It Ireland")... George MacFarlane 7. 7/31 2 Home, Sweet Home .. . Alice Nielsen 8. 8/14 4 My Bird Of Paradise...Peerless Quartet 9. 9/11 2 My Little Dream Girl...James F. Harrison & James Reed 10. 9/25 Hello, Frisco!... Olive Kline & Reinald Werrenrath 11. 11/06 Close To My Heart... Henry Burr & Albert Campbell 12. 11/20 They Didn't Believe Me ...Harry MacDonough & Olive Kline 1916 1. 1/08 2 Keep The Home Fires Burning (Till The Boys Come Home)... Frederick J. Wheeler 2. 1/22 3 There's A Long, Long Trail ... James F. Harrison & James Reed 3. 2/12 2 Somewhere A Voice Is Calling .. . John McCormack 4. 2/26 6 M-0-T-H-E-R (A Word That Means The World To Me) ... Henry Burr 5. 4/08 2 The Lights Of My Home Town ... Peerless Quartet 6. 4/22 5 Hello, Hawaii, How Are You? ... Prince's Orchestra 7. 5/06 1 I Love A Piano ... Billy Murray 8. 5/13 3 The Girl On The Magazine ... Harry MacDonough 9. 6/17 6 Good-Bye, Good Luck, God Bless You (Is All That I Can Say)... Henry Burr 10. 7/29 3 There's A Quaker Down In Quaker Town .. . Henry Burr & Albert Campbell 11. 8/19 2 The Star-Spangled Banner ... Prince's Orchestra 12. 9/02 2 America ... Columbia Mixed Double Quartet 13. 9/16 3 I Sent My Wife To The Thousand Isles ... Al Jolson 14. 10/07 3 If I Knock The 'L' Out Of Kelly (It Would Still Be Kelly To Me)... Marguerite Farrell 15. 10/28 1 Pretty Baby ... Billy Murray 16. 11/04 3 Ireland Must Be Heaven, For My Mother Came From There ... Charles Harrison 17. 11/25 2 Oh How She Could Yacki Hacki Wicki Wachi Woo (That's Love In Hawaii)...Arthur Collins & Byron Harlan 18. 12/09 3 Turn Back The Universe And Give Me Yester Day ... Harry MacDonough & Orpheus Quartet 19. 12/30 4 The Sunshine Of Your Smile... John McCormack 1917 1. 1/27 4 My Own lona... Hoarce Wright & Rene Dietrich 2. 2/24 6 Poor Butterfly .. . Victor Military Band 3. 4/07 4 Hush-A-Bye Ma Baby (The Missouri Waltz)... Elsie Baker 4. 5/05 5 Pack Up Tour Troubles In Your Old Kit Bag (And Smile, Smile, Smile)...Knickerbocker Quartet 5. 6/09 3 The Star-Spangled Banner ... John McCormack 6. 6/30 3 For Me And My Gal... Van & Schenck 7. 7/21 3 Oh Johnny, Oh Johnny, Oh! ... American Quartet 8. 8/11 2 Lookout Mountain .. . Henry Burr & Albert Campbell 9. 8/25 6 Till The Clouds Roll By ...Anna Wheaton & James Harrod 10. 10/06 1 Good -Bye Broadway, Hello France... American Quartet 11. 10/13 9 Over There ... American Quartet 12. 11/03 2 Over There ... Peerless Quartet 13. 12/01 3 Over There... Nora Bayes 1918 1. 1/19 4 Send Me Away With A Smile .. John McCormack 2. 2/16 2 I Don't Know Where I'm Going But I'm On My Way... Peerless Quartet 3. 3/02 1 The Battle Hymn Of The Republic .. . Charles Harrison & Columbia Stellar Quartet 4. 3/09 4 Hail! Hail! The Gang's All Here ... Irving Kaufman & Columbia Quartet 5. 4/06 3 I'm All Bound Round With The Mason Dixon Line .. .Al Jolson 6. 4/13 1 Dark Town Strutters' Ball... Arthur Collins & Byron Harlan 7. 4/27 11 Just A Baby's Prayer At Twilight (For Her Daddy Over There)... Henry Burr 8. 7/13 2 I'm Sorry I Made You Cry... Henry Burr 9. 7/20 3 Hello Central, Give Me No Man's Land ... Al Jolson 10. 8/17 8 Rock-A-Bye Your Baby With A Dixie Melody... Al Jolson 11. 9/07 1 Smiles ... Joseph C. Smith's Orchestra 12. 10/26 3 Over There ... Enrico sCaruso 13. 11/12 2 Tiger Rag ... Original Dixieland Jazz Band 14. 11/16 4 Oh, How I Hate To Get Up In The Morning .. . Arthur Fields 15. 12/14 5 I'm Always Chasing Rainbows ... Charles Harrison Maybe the US charts (or the people who had a radio/phonograph) just didn't notice there was a war going on? John |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: JennieG Date: 18 Feb 14 - 11:12 PM John, perhaps those wartime choices were to keep morale high? That might explain the lack of songs about the war. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: MGM·Lion Date: 19 Feb 14 - 12:18 AM Anyhow, Home Fires Burning, Over There, Hello Central Give Me No-Man's-Land, Oh How I Hate To Get Up In The Morning {'One day I'm going to murder the bugler!'}, are all distinctly war-related. Long Long Trail, Tipperary famously adopted by troops as marching songs. Battle Hymn Of Republic enjoyed a revival. So maybe they were not all so unaware of contemporary situation at that. ~M~ |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: JohnInKansas Date: 19 Feb 14 - 12:33 AM Continuing the llist of #1s: 1920 1. 1/17 2 I've Got My Captain Working For Me Now .. . Al Jolson 2. 1/31 13 Dardanella ... Ben Selvin's Novelty Orchestra 3. 5/01 1 Alice Blue Gown ... Edith Day 4. 5/08 9 Swanee ... Al Jolson 5. 7/03 7 When My Baby Smiles At Me... Ted Lewis & His Band 6. 8/07 3 Hold Me ... Art Hickman 7. 9/18 4 The Love Nest... John Steel 8. 9/25 3 St. Louis Blues ... Marion Harris 9. 10/16 2 The Love Nest... Art Hickman 10. 10/30 11 Whispering ... Paul Whiteman 11. 12/11 2 The Japanese Sandman ...Paul Whiteman 1921 1. 1/29 6 Wang Wang Blues .. . Paul Whiteman 2. 3/12 5 Margie ... Eddie Cantor 3. 4/16 4 O-H-I-O (O-My! O!)... Al Jolson 4. 5/14 3 Look For The Silver Lining... Marion Harris 5. 6/04 5 My Mammy .. . Paul Whiteman 6. 7/08 3 Make Believe ... Nora Bayes 7. 7/30 6 Cherie ... Paul Whiteman 8. 9/10 2 Ain't We Got Fun? .. . Van & Schenck 9. 9/24 5 Song Of India ... Paul Whiteman 10. 10/22 4 All By Myself... Ted Lewis 11. 11/26 5 Say It With Music .. . Paul Whiteman 12. 12/31 6 Wabash Blues... Isham Jones 1922 1. 2/11 11 April Showers ... Al Jolson 2. 3/25 1 My Man ... Fanny Brice 3. 5/06 5 Angel Child ... Al Jolson 4. 6/10 4 On The Alamo .. . Isham Jones 5. 7/08 2 Do It Again .. . Paul Whiteman 6. 7/22 6 Stumbling .. . Paul Whiteman 7. 9/02 2 Mr. Gallagher And Mr. Shean ... Ernest Hare & Billy Jones 8. 9/16 6 Hot Lips ... Paul Whiteman 9. 10/28 6 Mr. Gallagher And Mr. Shean ... Gallagher & Shean 10. 12/09 1 My Buddy ... Henry Burr 11. 12/16 8 Three O'clock In The Morning ... Paul Whiteman 1923 1. 1/06 1 I'll Build A Stairway To Paradise ... Paul Whiteman 2. 1/13 4 Toot Toot Tootsie (Goo'bye) ... Al Jolson 3. 3/10 3 Carolina In The Morning ...Van & Schenck 4. 4/07 7 Parade Of The Wooden Soldiers ... Paul Whiteman 5. 5/26 3 Love Sends A Little Gift Of Roses ... Carl Fenton 6. 6/16 1 Bambalina .. . Paul Whiteman 7 6/23 3 Dreamy Melody... Art Landry 8. 7/14 4 Down Hearted Blues ...Bessie Smith 9. 8/11 6 Swingin' Down The Lane...Isham Jones 10. 9/01 5 Yes! We Have No Bananas... Billy Jones 11. 10/27 2 Yes! We Have No Bananas ... Ben Selvin 12. 11/10 6 That Old Gang Of Mine...Billy Murray & Ed Smalle 13. 12/22 2 No, No, Nora ... Eddie Cantor 1924 1. 1/05 5 Sleep ... Fred Waring's Pennsylvanians 2. 1/26 1 Charleston ... Arthur Gibbs 3. 2/16 6 It Ain't Gonna Rain No Mo' ... Wendell Hall 4. 3/01 4 Linger Awhile ... Paul Whiteman 5. 3/29 5 Somebody Stole My Gal...Ted Weems 6. 5/24 6 California, Here I Come!...Al Jolson 7. 7/19 2 Spain ... Isham Jones 8. 8/02 5 What'll I Do? ... Paul Whiteman 9. 9/06 5 It Had To Be You ... Isham Jones 10. 10/11 5 Memory Lane ... Fred Waring's Pennsylvanians 11. 11/15 3 I Wonder What's Become Of Sally?... Al Jolson 12. 12/06 5 Somebody Loves Me ... Paul Whiteman 1925 1. 1/10 5 All Alone ... Al Jolson 2. 2/07 3 All Alone ... Paul Whiteman 3. 2/28 3 Tea For Two ... Marion Harris 4. 3/21 2 All Alone ... John McCormack 5. 4/04 7 I'll See You In My Dreams ... Isham Jones with Ray Miller's Orchestra 6. 5/23 1 O! Katharina ... Ted Lewis 7. 5/30 5 The Prisoner's Song .. .Vernon Dalhart (see #14 below) 8. 7/04 5 Sweet Georgia Brown ..Ben Bernie 9. 8/01 5 If You Knew Susie ... Eddie Cantor 10. 9/12 7 Yes Sir! That's My Baby .. .Gene Austin 11. 10/31 3 Oh, How I Miss You Tonight... Ben Selvin (Cavaliers) 12.11/21 4 Manhattan ... Ben Selvin (Knickerbockers) 13. 12/19 1 Remember ... Isham Jones 14. 12/26 7 The Prisoner's Song ...Vernon Dalhart (total: 12 weeks at #1) The early-to-mid 20s gets to about the time my parents' generation began getting out of high school, and about the time I susupect my dad John |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: JohnInKansas Date: 19 Feb 14 - 12:38 AM And: 1926 1. 2/13 6 Who? ... George Olsen 2. 3/27 4 Sleepy Time Gal... Ben Bernie 3. 4/17 2 I'm Sitting On Top Of The World... Al Jolson 4. 5/08 3 Always ... George Olsen 5. 5/22 1 Five Foot Two, Eyes Of Blue... Gene Austin 6. 6/05 2 Always ... Vincent Lopez 7. 6/19 2 Gimme A Lit'Kiss, Will Ta, Huh? ... "Whispering" Jack Smith 8. 7/03 11 Valencia ... Paul Whiteman 9. 9/04 3 Bye Bye, Blackbird ... Gene Austin 10. 10/02 2 When The Red, Red Robin Comes Bob-Bob-Bobbin' Along ... Al Jolson 11. 10/16 6 Baby Face ... Jan Garber 12. 11/27 2 Breezin' Along With The Breeze ... Johnny Marvin 13. 12/11 4 The Birth Of The Blues...Paul Whiteman 1927 1. 1/08 8 In A Little Spanish Town... Paul Whiteman 2. 3/05 5 Some Of These Days .. .Sophie Tucker with Ted Lewis & His Band 3. 4/09 3 Tonight You Belong To Me... Gene Austin 4. 4/30 2 Blue Skies ... Ben Selvin 5. 5/14 4 Ain't She Sweet? ... Ben Bernie 6. 6/11 3 At Sundown (When Love Is Calling Me Home)...George Olsen 7. 7/02 5 Two Black Crows-Parts 1 & 2 (The Early Bird Catches The Worm)... Moran & Mack 8. 8/06 1 Forgive Me ... Gene Austin 9. 8/13 4 Me And My Shadow .. ."Whispering" Jack Smith 10. 9/10 3 Russian Lullaby .. . Roger Wolfe Kahn 11. 10/01 7 Charmaine!... Guy Lombardo 12. 11/19 1 My Blue Heaven .. . Paul Whiteman 13. 11/26 3 Ida, Sweet As Apple Cider... Red Nichols 14. 12/17 13 My Blue Heaven ... Gene Austin 1928 1. 3/17 4 Among My Souvenirs .. .Paul Whiteman 2. 4/14 2 Together ... Paul Whiteman 3. 4/28 1 Ol' Man River ... Paul Whiteman 4. 5/05 3 Ramona ... Paul Whiteman 5. 5/26 8 Ramona ... Gene Austin 6. 7/21 1 Laugh, Clown, Laugh!...Fred Waring's Pennsylvanians 7. 7/28 6 My Angel... Paul Whiteman 8. 9/08 5 Jeannine (I Dream Of Lilac Time)... Gene Austin 9. 10/13 1 I Can't Give Ton Anything But Love ... Cliff Edwards ("Ukelele Ike") 10. 10/20 12 Sonny Boy ... Al Jolson 11. 12/01 2 There's A Rainbow Round My Shoulder ... Al Jolson 1929 1. 1/26 3 Sweethearts On Parade ...Guy Lombardo 2. 2/16 7 Carolina Moon ... Gene Austin 3. 3/23 2 A Precious Little Thing Called Love ... George Olsen 4. 4/20 8 Honey... Rudy Vallee 5. 6/15 4 The Wedding Of The Painted Doll... LeoReisman 6. 7/13 4 Pagan Love Song ... Copley Plaza Orchestra (Bob Haring) 7. 8/10 3 Singin' In The Rain ... Cliff Edwards ("Ukelele Ike") 8. 8/31 5 Little Pal... Al Jolson 9. 10/05 2 Am I Blue? ... Ethel Waters 10. 10/19 10 Tip Toe Through The Tulips... Nick Lucas 11. 12/28 2 Great Day ... Paul Whiteman 1930 1. 1/11 3 Chant Of The Jungle... Roy Ingraham 2. 2/01 1 The Man From The South... Ted Weems 3. 2/08 3 Happy Days Are Here Again ... Benny Meroff 4. 3/01 1 Puttin' On The Ritz .. .Harry Richman 5. 3/08 2 Happy Days Are Here Again... Ben Selvin 6. 3/22 10 Stein Song (University Of Maine)... Rudy Vallee 7. 5/31 2 When It's Springtime In The Rockies ... Hilo Hawaiian Orchestra 8. 6/14 3 When It's Springtime In The Rockies ... Ben Selvin 9. 7/05 7 Dancing With Tears In My Eyes... Nat Shilkret 10. 8/23 6 Little White Lies ... Fred Waring's Pennsylvanians 11. 9/20 2 If I Could Be With You One Hour Tonight...McKinney's Cotton Pickers 12. 10/18 6 Body And Soul... Paul Whiteman 13. 11/29 3 Three Little Words ... Duke Ellington 14. 12/20 4 You're Driving Me Crazy! (What Did I Do?)... Guy Lombardo I've got the dots for several of these in fake books we used in my high school "dance band" in the 50s. [Played a half dozen gigs and probably made at least $10 total.] John |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: GUEST Date: 19 Feb 14 - 02:54 AM Up near the top of this thread Sandra says that she has changed her views about who wrote a song, based on the first list posted. But later lists give the same titles with different names, so it must be the person who recorded it, not necessarily the writer. Lots of familiar tunes.And they have had more recent pop come-backs. E.g. Daddy Wouldn't buy me a Bow Wow, in the early 50s. But I can't imagine that one being played in any strict Folk club, though it's probably been discussed here. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Richard Bridge Date: 19 Feb 14 - 03:27 AM This is an interesting thread in its own right, but the title is misleading. It gets to be "folk" when it meets the 1954 definition. The definition perhaps needs a bit of tweaking to take account of the methods of transmission of music and song, and the precise implications of the difference of meaning between being of unknown origin or of largely unknown origin, but it is still the best definition of "folk" that we have got. ""Folk Song in England In 1954 the International Folk Music Council adopted this definition:— "Folk music is the product of a musical tradition that has been evolved through the process of oral transmission. The factors that shape the tradition are: (i) Continuity which links the present with the past: (ii) Variation which springs from the creative impulse of the individual or group: (iii) Selection by the community, which determines the form or forms in which the music survives. The term can be applied to music that has been evolved from the rudimentary beginnings by a community uninfluenced by popular music and art music, and it can likewise be applied to the music which has originated with an individual composer and has subsequently been absorbed into the unwritten living tradition of a community. The term does not cover composed popular music that has been taken over ready—made by a community and remains unchanged, for it is the refashioning and recreation of the music by the community that gives its folk character. 'Conclusions', by Cecil Sharp~ A folk song is always anonymous. Modal melodies, set to secular words, are nearly always of folk origin. Song tunes in the minor mode are either composed tunes, or folk airs that have suffered corruption. Folk tunes do not modulate. Folk melodies are non—harmonic: that is to say, they have been fashioned by those in whom the harmonic sense is undeveloped. This is shown:— a. in the use of non—harmonic passing notes. b. in a certain vagueness of tonality, especially in the opening phrases of modal tunes. c. in the use of flattened seventh, after the manner of a leading note, in the final cadence of modal airs. d. in the difficulty of harmonizing a folk tune. e. Folk melodies often contain bars of irregular length. f. Prevalence of five and seven time-measures in folk airs. In giving evidence in 1835, Francis Place reported that ballads sung about the streets during his youth could not be adequately described in present company. 'I have given you in writing words of some common ballads which you would not think fit to have uttered here. At that time the songs were of the most indecent kind: they were publicly sung and sold in the streets and markets: no one would mention them in any society now! Another consideration. "The mind of the folk singer is occupied exclusively with the words, with the clearness of which he will allow nothing to interfere. Consequently, he but rarely sings more than one note to a syllable and will often. interpolate a syllable of his own rather than break this rule. "O abroad as I was wordelkin' I was walking all alone When I heard a couple tordelkin' As they walked all along"" |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: JohnInKansas Date: 19 Feb 14 - 04:46 AM The book does report a "Synopsis of Charts" that tells what "charts" were researched to compile the lists, but so far as I've found so far does not indentify which chart produced an individual entry: This may help with understanding what information is in the lists - or may not (?) CHART SYNOPSIS 1890-1899 Reporting top 1 to top 3 1. Phonogram (early 1890s record industry periodical) 2. Phonoscope (1896-1899; monthly lists of top records) 3. Sheet music sales 4. ASCAP and other lists of top period songs 5. Record label catalogs: Columbia, Edison, Berliner, & regional labels 6. Jim Walsh columns for Hobbies Magazine on pioneer recording artists 1900-1909 Reporting 5-10 1. Jim Walsh 2. Talking Machine World (monthly record industry periodical) 3. Sheet music sales 4. ASCAP 5. Record label publications: Victor, Edison, Columbia, Zono-Phone 6. Best-selling-records information 1910-1919 Reporting top 10 1. Talking Machine World (published monthly lists of record labels' top sellers from 1914-21) 2. Billboard (sheet music best sellers, 1913; weekly lists of top songs in vaudeville, 1913-18) 3. Jim Walsh 4. Sheet music sales 5. ASCAP 6. Record label publications 7. Best-selling-records information 1920-1926 Reporting top 10 to 15 1. Billboard 2. Talking Machine World (through 1929) 3. Other trade publications 4. Sheet music sales 5. ASCAP 6. Best-selling-records information 1927-1933 Reporting top 20 1. Record label best-seller rankings (published each month in trade periodicals from 1929-1938) 2. Billboard 3. Other trade publications 4. Sheet music sales 5. ASCAP 1934-1938 Reporting top 20 BEST SELLING RECORDS: 1. Record label best-seller rankings 2. Miscellaneous reference sources (for record labels not listed) 1934-1940 Top 20 HIT PARADE/RADIO AIRPLAY: 1. "Your Hit Parade" (April 1935-July 1940) 2. Billboard radio airplay charts 3. ASCAP 1938-1954 Top 15 to 30 JUKE BOX CHARTS: 1. Billboard "Music Box Machine" (1938-44) and "Most Played in Juke Boxes" (1944-54) charts 2. Billboard regional favorites (1940-44) 3. Billboard "up and coming hits" (Nov. 1947-May 1948) 4. Billboard "Best Buys" - regional and up & coming hits - supplemented by other trade publications (used from Nov. 1952-Dec. 1954 for positions #21-30 when Billboard reduced chart size) 1945-1954 Top 15 to 30 DISC JOCKEY CHARTS: 1. Billboard "Most Played by Disc Jockeys" chart 2. Billboard up & coming hits (1947-48) 3. Billboard regional and up & coming hits, with other trade publications (1952-54) John |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Bert Date: 19 Feb 14 - 11:46 AM Despite the fact that a certain organization thought that they could define folk back in 1954, there are dozens of songs here that I shall be adding to my song list. Great thread John. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 19 Feb 14 - 12:25 PM I don't think the majority of singers, who include a variety of songs in their repertoires, gives a damn what certain organizations have defined. A folk song is a song that has a long life, author known or unknown, and has been adopted by the people (folk), who couldn't care less about definitions- the song's the thing! |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 19 Feb 14 - 12:48 PM Looking at songs of 1917 that appeared in U. S. Billboard, songs showing awareness of the war seem common enough. Over There- On Billboard 11 weeks, as sung by Nora Bayes. Over There- On Billboard, 18 weeks, sung by American Quartet. Over There, On Billboard 10 weeks, Peerless Quartet. Till the Clouds Roll By- 10 weeks, Wheaton and Harrod. Till the Clouds Roll By- 10 weeks, Prince's Orchestra, Send Me Away With a Smile- 10 weeks, John McCormack The Star-Spangled Banner- 8 weeks, John McCormack Goodbye Broadway, Hello France- 8 weeks, American Quartet Oh, Johnny- 9 weeks, American Quartet Pack Up Your Troubles- 10 weeks, Knickerbocker Quartet. La Marseilles- 2 weeks, Frances Alda Someone Else May Be There While I'm Gone- 4 weeks, Al Jolson Tramp, Tramp, Tramp, the Boys Are Marching- 4 weeks, Columbia Stellar Quartet. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Richard Bridge Date: 19 Feb 14 - 12:52 PM No, Q, that is a popular song. Try to think about what you are saying - and note that in places you are close to saying the same thing, but still you refuse to hear. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 19 Feb 14 - 01:07 PM Popular song, folk song, heart song- synonymous once the "scholarly" baggage is stripped away. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 19 Feb 14 - 01:48 PM Add to the U. S. Billboard list for 1917, "Joan of Arc, sung by Henry Burr, 6 weeks. The Billboard songs are part of the list for 1917 in tsort.info, http://tsort.info/music/yr1917.htm Most of the songs for 1917 I recognize, but I don't think I ever heard "My Own Iona," on Billboard for 9 weeks, sung by Wright and Dietrich. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 19 Feb 14 - 01:53 PM reason not the need, as king lear said. some people need the scholarly baggage. bloody sad, but there it is, Q old man.... hopeless cases! |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: MGM·Lion Date: 19 Feb 14 - 02:25 PM No!!! Aaaarrrrgggghhhhh!!! HELP!!!!! Some fool who shall be nameless [except that he was called Jim] once denounced me for being "educated", meaning to insult. And now we have intelligent people using 'scholarly' as a "sad" term of abuse. What the hell is the matter with u-guise? This is a scholarly forum, innit!, or what the bloody-blue-blazes is the use of it!!! Oh, wotza-use. Bangbangbangbang ☹-against-wall. Go back to sleep, Michael. Or, anyhow, bugger off & watch Arsenal play Bayern... ~M~ |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 19 Feb 14 - 03:13 PM "My Own Iona" can be heard on the Library of Congress Jukebox, along with others of these older songs. Interesting to poke through their material. M, I like to poke the hornets nests from time to time. The responses are amusing. I am supposedly educated (Ph.D., admittedly not in the byways of song) and find the folk meaning of "scholarly" to be the reverse of the dictionary meanings. Innit it so? Folklore, of which folk songs are a part, was defined in 1846 as "the traditions, customs and superstitions of the uncultured classes" by William Thoms. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: GUEST Date: 19 Feb 14 - 03:40 PM When does it get to be folk? Well, it starts getting iffy near 1953 . . . |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 19 Feb 14 - 03:43 PM cheer up Mike, we uncultured types don't mind you being cultured |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: GUEST Date: 19 Feb 14 - 04:03 PM A conversation between ice cream and yogurt? |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: MGM·Lion Date: 19 Feb 14 - 04:58 PM No, Dr Q: it in't, so, so! And then Arsenal lo·o·ost ☠☠☠ ☹☹☹☹☹☹☹☹☹☹ ☠☠☠ You're not incultchered, Al. Altho you're a Pearl... ~M~ |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Bert Date: 19 Feb 14 - 05:59 PM Some of us think that the 1954 definition is somewhat restrictive in scope and does not conform to most peoples views. The 1954 definition is just an example of a particular group of people trying to force their views upon the rest of the world. Just face the fact that it didn't work. The 1954 definition does not fit the music that most of us call folk; which is why you get so many arguments when you discuss 'Folk Music'. As Q says "the song's the thing! ". |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: GUEST Date: 19 Feb 14 - 06:48 PM I'm the guest who posted the yogurt remark, Bert, and I agree with you. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: JohnInKansas Date: 20 Feb 14 - 03:19 AM Having posted the #1 songs up to 1930, and the comment above that "folk" songs ended soon after, I feel sort of obligated to post a little further so people can decide for themselves whether it's really all over and done. Note that the songs that made #1 on the charts, as I've posted, may give a rather different view of the mood and musical tastes than a survey of the whole group of songs that "made the charts" in a given year. 1931 1. 1/17 7 The Peanut Vendor ... Don Azpiazu 2. 2/14 2 Just A Gigolo .. . Ted Lewis 3. 3/21 3 By The River St. Marie .. .Guy Lombardo 4. 4/04 1 Minnie The Moocher .. . Cab Calloway 5. 4/18 1 Star Dust... Isham Jones 6. 4/25 4 Dream A Little Dream Of Me... Wayne King 7. 5/16 3 Out Of Nowhere .. . Bing Crosby 8. 6/06 3 (There Ought To Be A) Moonlight Saving Time ...Guy Lombardo 9. 6/27 2 Just One More Chance .. .Bing Crosby 10. 7/11 3 I Found A Million-Dollar Baby (In A Five-And-Ten-Cent Store)... Fred Waring's Pennsylvanians 11. 8/08 3 At Your Command .. . Bing Crosby 12. 8/22 6 Sweet And Lovely... Gus Arnheim 13. 10/03 2 When The Moon Comes Over The Mountain... Kate Smith 14. 10/17 7 Good Night, Sweetheart...Wayne King 15. 12/05 2 Goodnight, Sweetheart...Guy Lombardo 16. 12/19 4 Tiger Rag ... Mills Brothers 1932 1. 1/16 2 River, Stay 'Way From My Door ... Kate Smith with Guy Lombardo 2. 1/30 2 Dinah ... Bing Crosby & Mills Brothers 3. 2/13 3 All Of Me... Paul Whiteman 4. 3/05 2 All Of Me ... Louis Armstrong 5. 3/19 2 Too Many Tears .. . Guy Lombardo 6. 4/02 6 Paradise ... Leo Reisman 7. 5/14 3 Paradise ... Guy Lombardo 8. 6/04 2 Lullaby Of The Leaves .. .George Olsen 9. 6/18 10 n A Shanty In Old Shanty Town ... Ted Lewis 10. 8/27 5 We Just Couldn't Say Goodbye ... Guy Lombardo 11. 10/01 2 Say It Isn't So ... George Olsen 12. 10/15 6 Please... Bing Crosby 13. 11/26 2 Brother, Can You Spare A Dime? ... Bing Crosby 14. 12/10 2 Brother, Can Ton Spare A Dime? ... Rudy Vallee 15. 12/24 10 Night And Day ... Fred Astaire with Leo Reisman 1933 1. 3/04 4 You're Getting To Be A Habit With Me ... Bing Crosby 2. 4/01 3 Forty-Second Street... Don Bestor 3. 4/22 8 Stormy Weather .. . Leo Reisman featuring Harold Arlen 4. 6/17 3 Stormy Weather ... Ethel Waters 5. 7/08 2 Shadow Waltz ... Bing Crosby 6. 7/22 4 Lazybones ... Ted Lewis 7. 8/19 5 Love Is The Sweetest Thing... Ray Noble 8. 9/23 9 The Last Round-Up ...George Olsen 9. 11/04 3 The Last Round-Up .. . Guy Lombardo 10. 12/16 3 Did You Ever See A Dream Walking? ... Eddy Duchin 1934 1. 1/06 3 The Old Spinning Wheel...Ray Noble 2. 1/20 6 Smoke Gets In Your Eyes .. .Paul Whiteman 3. 2/24 5 Let's Fall In Love ... Eddy Duchin 4. 3/03 1 My Little Grass Shack In Kealakekua, Hawaii .. .Ted Fio Rito 5. 3/31 2 The Carioca .. . Enric Madriguera 6. 4/07 1 Wagon Wheels .. . Paul Whiteman 7. 4/14 5 Little Dutch Mill... Bing Crosby 8. 5/12 5 Cocktails For Two ... Duke Ellington 9. 6/09 5 I'll String Along With You... Ted Fio Rito 10. 7/07 1 Moon Glow ... Benny Goodman 11. 7/14 5 The Very Thought Of You... Ray Noble 12. 7/14 2 All I Do Is Dream Of You...Jan Garber 13. 8/18 6 Love In Bloom .. . Bing Crosby 14. 9/15 4 I Saw Stars ... Freddy Martin 15. 10/20 4 One Night Of Love ... Grace Moore 16. 10/27 2 The Continental (You Kiss While You're Dancing)...Leo Reisman 17. 11/10 4 Stars Fell On Alabama ...Guy Lombardo 18. 12/08 7 June In January ... Bing Crosby 19. 12/08 3 Stay As Sweet As Yon Are... Jimmie Grier 20. 12/29 2 The Object Of My Affection... Jimmie Grier 1935 1. 1/12 7 Isle Of Capri... Ray Noble 2. 1/26 3 Blue Moon ... Glen Gray 3. 1/26 2 The Object Of My Affection... Boswell Sisters 4. 3/23 4 Lovely To Look At.. . Eddy Duchin 5. 4/13 2 It's Easy To Remember...Bing Crosby 6. 4/20 1 Soon... Bing Crosby 7. 5/04 3 I Won't Dance... Eddy Duchin 8. 5/04 2 Lullaby Of Broadway...Dorsey Brothers Orchestra 9. 5/18 2 What's The Reason (I'm Not Pleasin' You)... Guy Lombardo 10. 6/01 2 Life Is A Song .. . Ruth Etting 11. 6/15 4 When I Grow Too Old To Dream ... Glen Gray 12. 6/22 4 She's A Latin From Manhattan ... Victor Young 13. 6/29 3 Chasing Shadows .. . Dorsey Brothers Orchestra 14. 7/13 3 In A Little Gypsy Tea Room... Bob Crosby 15. 7/20 2 Let's Swing It.. . Ray Noble 16. 8/03 1 Rhythm Is Our Business .. .Jimmie Lunceford 17. 8/10 11 Cheek To Cheek... Fred Astaire 18. 8/10 1 Paris In The Spring .. . Ray Noble 19. 8/17 1 And Then Some... Ozzie Nelson 20. 8/24 2 East Of The Sun (And West Of The Moon)... Tom Coakley 21. 9/07 3 I'm In The Mood For Love... Little Jack Little 22. 10/19 3 Truckin'... Fats Waller 23. 11/02 3 You Are My Lucky Star ...Eddy Duchin 24. 11/30 4 Red Sails In The Sunset..Guy Lombardo 25. 12/21 2 Red Sails In The Sunset...Bing Crosby 26. 12/21 1 On Treasure Island...Tommy Dorsey 27. 12/28 2 A Little Bit Independent...Fats Waller 1936 1. 1/04 5 The Music Goes Round And Round ... Tommy Dorsey 2. 1/04 3 The Music Goes Round And Round ... Riley-Farley Orchestra 3. 2/01 3 Moon Over Miami... Eddy Duchin 4. 2/08 6 Alone ... Tommy Dorsey 5. 2/29 2 A Beautiful Lady In Blue ...Jan Garber 6. 3/14 6 Goody-Goody... Benny Goodman 7. 3/21 1 Lights Out... Eddy Duchin 8. 4/04 1 I'm Putting All My Eggs InOne Basket... Fred Astaire 9. 4/11 2 It's Been So Long... Benny Goodman 10. 5/02 2 Lost... Guy Lombardo 11. 5/09 3 A Melody From The Sky...Jan Garber 12. 5/23 1 You... Tommy Dorsey 13. 5/30 6 The Glory Of Love .. . Benny Goodman 14. 6/06 4 Is It True What They Say About Dixie? .. . Jimmy Dorsey 15. 6/06 1 All My Life... Fats Waller 16. 7/11 2 There's A Small Hotel...Hal Kemp 17. 7/18 2 Take My Heart... Eddy Duchin 18. 7/25 4 It's A Sin To Tell A Lie ...Fats Waller 19. 8/01 2 These Foolish Things Remind Me Of You .. .Benny Goodman 20. 8/15 2 When I'm With Ton .. . Hal Kemp 21. 8/22 2 Until The Real Thing Comes Along ... Andy Kirk 22. 8/29 4 Did I Remember?... Shep Fields 23. 9/05 5 A Fine Romance... Fred Astaire 24. 10/03 6 The Way Tou Look To-night... Fred Astaire 25. 10/10 2 When Did Tou Leave Heaven?... Guy Lombardo 26. 11/14 2 Tou Turned The Tables On Me... Benny Goodman 27. 11/28 10 Pennies From Heaven...Bing Crosby 28. 12/05 1 I'll Sing Tou A Thousand Love Songs.,. Eddy Duchin 29. 12/12 2 In The Chapel In The Moonlight... Shep Fields 1937 1. 1/02 2 It's De-Lovely.... Eddy Duchin 2. 2/06 4 Goodnight, My Love .. Benny Goodman 3. 2/20 4 This Tear's Kisses... Hal Kemp 4. 2/20 1 With Plenty Of Money And You... Henry Busse 5. 2/27 3 This Tear's Kisses .. .Benny Goodman 6. 3/27 2 Marie... Tommy Dorsey 7. 4/03 5 Boo Hoo... Guy Lombardo 8. 4/17 10 Sweet Leilani... Bing Crosby 9. 4/24 1 Too Marvelous For Words ... Bing Crosby 31. 12/11 1 10. 5/01 1 They Can't Take That Away From Me ... Fred Astaire 11. 5/15 3 Carelessly... Teddy Wilson featuring Billie Holiday 12. 6/05 4 September In The Rain ... GuyLombardo 13. 7/03 5 It Looks Like Rain In Cherry Blossom Lane ... Guy Lombardo 14. 7/03 2 The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down ... Russ Morgan 15. 7/17 2 The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down ... Shep Fields 16. 7/24 1 Where Or When... Hal Kemp 17. 7/31 2 Smarty ... Fats Waller Gone With The Wind .. .Horace Heidt 18. 7/31 1 A Sailboat In The Moonlight...GuyLombardo 19. 8/07 3 Satan Takes A Holiday .. .Tommy Dorsey 20. 8/21 3 Whispers In The Dark .. .Bob Crosby 21. 9/04 4 The Big Apple .. . Tommy Dorsey's Clam Bake Seven 22. 9/11 2 So Rare ... Guy Lombardo 23. 9/11 1 The Moon Got In My Eyes ... Bing Crosby 24. 9/25 4 That Old Feeling .. . Shep Fields 25. 10/09 4 You Can't Stop Me From Dreaming ... Teddy Wilson 26. 10/16 2 Remember Me? .. . Bing Crosby 27. 11/06 3 Vieni, Vieni ... Rudy Vallee 28. 11/20 1 Once In A While .. . Tommy Dorsey 29. 11/27 7 The Dipsy Doodle .. . Tommy Dorsey Bob White 30. 11/27 6 (Whatcha Gonna Swing Tonight?)... Bing Crosby & Connee Boswell 1938 1. 1/01 1 Nice Work If You Can Get It ... Fred Astaire 2. 1/15 2 Rosalie ... Sammy Kaye 3. 1/22 5 Bei Mir Bist Du Schoen .. . Andrews Sisters 4. 1/29 1 You're A Sweetheart... Dolly Dawn 5. 2/26 4 Thanks For The Memory ... Shep Fields 6. 3/19 6 Ti-Pi-Pin ... Hoarce Heidt 7. 3/19 5 Don't Be That Way .. .Benny Goodman 8. 4/23 3 I Let A Song Go Out Of My Heart ... Duke Ellington 9. 5/07 2 Please Be Kind ... Red Norvo 10. 5/14 3 Love Walked In ... Sammy Kaye 11. 5/21 4 Cry, Baby, Cry ... Larry Clinton 12. 5/28 3 Cathedral In The Pines .. .Shep Fields 13. 6/11 1 I Let A Song Go Out Of My Heart ... Benny Goodman 14. 6/18 4 Says My Heart ... Red Norvo 15. 6/25 10 A-Tisket, A-Tasket... Ella Fitzgerald with Chick Webb 16. 7/16 6 Music, Maestro, Please...Tommy Dorsey 17. 9/17 2 Change Partners... Fred Astaire 18. 9/24 2 Alexander's Ragtime Band... Bing Crosby & Connee Boswell 19. 10/01 8 My Reverie ... Larry Clinton 20. 10/01 4 I've Got A Pocketful Of Dreams ... Bing Crosby 21. 10/15 2 Change Partners .. . Jimmy Dorsey 22. 10/29 2 I've Got A Pocketful Of Dreams ... Russ Morgan 23. 10/29 1 Heart And Soul... Larry Clinton 24. 11/05 6 Begin The Beguine .. . Artie Shaw 25. 12/17 2 Two Sleepy People .. . Fats Waller 26. 12/31 2 You Must Have Been A Beautiful Baby ... Bing Crosby 27. 12/31 2 I Won't Tell A Soul (I Love You)... Andy Kirk 1939 1. 1/07 2 They Say ... Artie Shaw 2. 1/14 5 Jeepers Creepers .. . Al Donohue 3 1/14 1 Thanks For Ev'rything .. .Artie Shaw 4 2/04 1 The Umbrella Man .. . Kay Kyser 5 2/ll 9 Deep Purple .. . Larry Clinton 6. 3/18 1 Penny Serenade .. . Guy Lombardo 7. 4/22 2 Heaven Can Wait... Glen Gray 8. 5/06 1 Our Love ... Tommy Dorsey 9. 5/13 5 And The Angels Sing .. .Benny Goodman 10. 5/20 2 Three Little Fishies .. . Kay Kyser 11. 6/03 4 Beer Barrel Polka .. . Will Glahe 12. 6/10 4 Wishing (Will Make It So)...Glenn Miller 13. 7/08 4 Stairway To The Stars .. .Glenn Miller 14. 8/12 4 Moon Love ... Glenn Miller 15. 8/12 2 Sunrise Serenade . .. Glen Gray 16. 9/09 7 Over The Rainbow .. . Glenn Miller 17. 9/09 3 The Man With The Mandolin... Glenn Miller 18. 9/30 1 Blue Orchids ... Glenn Miller 19. 10/21 1 Day In, Day Out... Bob Crosby 20. 11/04 5 South Of The Border (Down Mexico Way)... Shep Fields 21. 11/11 1 Address Unknown .. . Ink Spots 22. 11/25 8 Scatter-Brain ... Frankie Masters 1940 1. 1/27 2 All The Things Ton Are ...Tommy Dorsey 2. 2/03 5 Careless ... Glenn Miller 3. 2/10 12 In The Mood ... Glenn Miller 4. 2/24 1 Indian Summer ... Tommy Dorsey 5. 3/16 1 Darn That Dream ... Benny Goodman 6. 3/30 5 When You Wish Upon A Star ... Glenn Miller 7. 5/04 9 Tuxedo Junction ... Glenn Miller 8. 5/04 7 The Woodpecker Song ...Glenn Miller 9. 6/22 3 Imagination ... Glenn Miller 10. 7/10 2 Make-Believe Island...Mitchell Ayres 11. 7/20 1 Fools Rush In (Where Angels Fear To Tread)...Glenn Miller 12. 7/27 12 I'll Never Smile Again ...Tommy Dorsey 13. 8/24 2 Where Was I? ... Charlie Barnet 14. 9/07 1 The Breeze And I... Jimmy Dorsey 15. 9/14 4 Sierra Sue ... Bing Crosby 16. 10/19 9 Only Forever ... Bing Crosby 17. 11/23 1 Blueberry Hill... Glenn Miller 18.11/28 3 Ferryboat Serenade ...Andrews Sisters 19. 11/30 4 Trade Winds ... Bing Crosby 20. 12/21 13 Frenesi ... Artie Shaw John |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: JohnInKansas Date: 20 Feb 14 - 03:22 AM And: 1941 1. 1/18 3 We Three (My Echo, My Shadow, And Me)... Ink Spots 2. 2/08 3 There I Go ... Vaughn Monroe 3. 3/01 1 Dream Valley ... Sammy Kaye 4. 3/15 1 Song Of The Volga Boatmen ... Glenn Miller 5. 3/29 10 Amapola ... Jimmy Dorsey 6. 4/05 2 I Hear A Rhapsody ...Jimmy Dorsey 7. 4/19 4 There'll Be Some Changes Made ... Benny Goodman 8. 4/19 2 High On A Windy Hill...Jimmy Dorsey 9. 6/07 2 My Sister And I.. . Jimmy Dorsey 10. 6/14 6 Maria Elena ... Jimmy Dorsey 11. 6/21 8 Daddy ... Sammy Kaye 12. 6/28 1 Dolores ... Tommy Dorsey 13. 7/05 2 The Band Played On ... Guy Lombardo 14. 8/02 1 Intermezzo (Souvenir De Vienne)... Guy Lombardo 15. 8/30 4 Green Eyes ... Jimmy Dorsey 16. 9/27 1 Blue Champagne ... Jimmy Dorsey 17. 10/04 8 Piano Concerto In B Flat...Freddy Martin 18. 10/25 2 (Lights Out) 'Til Reveille ...Kay Kyser 19. 11/08 5 You And I... Glenn Miller 20. 11/29 9 Chattanooga Choo Choo ..Glenn Miller 21. 12/13 3 I Don't Want To Set The World On Fire ... Horace Heidt 22. 12/20 1 Elmer's Tune ... Glenn Miller 1942 1. 2/07 2 A String Of Pearls... Glenn Miller 2. 2/14 4 Blues In The Night...Woody Herman 3. 2/28 10 Moonlight Cocktail...Glenn Miller 4. 3/14 1 (There'll Be Bluebirds Over) The White Cliffs Of Dover ... Kay Kyser 5. 3/21 2 Rose O'Day (The Filla-Da-Gusha Song),.. Freddy Martin 6. 5/02 1 Deep In The Heart Of Texas... Alvino Rey 7. 5/09 6 Tangerine ... Jimmy Dorsey 8. 5/09 2 I Don't Want To Walk Without You ... Harry James 9. 6/06 3 Somebody Else Is Taking My Place ... Benny Goodman 10. 6/13 4 Jersey Bounce ... Benny Goodman 11. 6/20 4 Sleepy Lagoon ... Harry James 12. 7/18 8 Jingle, Jangle, Jingle...Kay Kyser 13. 7/25 2 Don't Sit Under The Apple Tree (With Anyone Else But Me)... Glenn Miller 14. 8/29 2 Who Wouldn't Love You ...Kay Kyser 15. 9/26 4 He Wears A Pair Of Silver Wings ... Kay Kyser 16. 10/24 8 (I've Got A Gal In) Kalamazoo ... Glenn Miller 17. 10/31 11 White Christmas... Bing Crosby 18. 12/19 1 My Devotion ... Vaughn Monroe 19. 12/26 2 Strip Polka... Kay Kyser 1943 1. 1/09 3 Praise The Lord And Pass The Ammunition!... Kay Kyser 2. 1/16 6 There Are Such Things ...Tommy Dorsey 3. 1/30 2 Mister Five By Five...Harry James 4. 2/13 3 When The Lights Go On Again (All Over The World)... Vaughn Monroe 5. 2/13 2 I Had The Craziest Dream... Harry James 6. 3/06 13 I've Heard That Song Before... Harry James 7. 4/17 2 Moonlight Becomes You ...Bing Crosby 8. 5/29 1 That Old Black Magic ...Glenn Miller 9. 6/12 3 Taking A Chance On Love... Benny Goodman 10. 6/26 4 As Time Goes By ... Rudy Vallee 11. 7/03 3 Comin'In On A Wing And A Prayer ... Song Spinners 12. 7/24 7 You'll Never Know ... DickHaymes 13. 7/24 3 Let's Get Lost... Vaughn Monroe 14. 8/21 3 In The Blue Of The Evening... Tommy Dorsey 15. 9/04 1 It Can't Be Wrong ... Dick Haymes 16. 9/11 7 Sunday, Monday, Or Always... Bing Crosby 17. 9/11 2 All Or Nothing At All...Frank Sinatra With Harry James 18. 10/30 8 Pistol Packin'Mama ... Al Dexter 19. 11/06 12 Paper Doll... Mills Brothers 1944 1. 1/15 9 Shoe-Shoo Baby ... Andrews Sisters 2. 1/29 5 My Heart Tells Me ... Glen Gray 3. 3/04 7 Besame Mucho ... Jimmy Dorsey 4. 3/18 5 Mairzy Doats ... Merry Macs 5. 4/22 5 San Fernando Valley ...Bing Crosby 6. 4/22 2 It's Love-Love-Love ... Guy Lombardo 7. 5/06 5 I Love You ... Bing Crosby 8. 6/10 6 I'll Get By (As Long As I Have You)... Harry James 9. 7/01 4 I'll Be Seeing Yon ... Bing Crosby 10. 8/05 9 Swinging On A Star ... Bing Crosby 11. 8/05 2 G.I. Jive ... Louis Jordan 12. 10/07 5 You Always Hurt The One You Love ... Mills Brothers 13. 10/14 6 A Hot Time In The Town Of Berlin ... Bing Crosby & Andrews Sisters 14. 10/14 4 I'll Walk Alone... Dinah Shore 15. 12/02 2 Into Each Life Some Rain Must Fall... Ella Fitzgerald & Ink Spots 16. 12/09 2 I'm Making Believe ... Ella Fitzgerald & Ink Spots 17. 12/16 8 Don't Fence Me In ... Bing Crosby & Andrews Sisters 1945 1. 2/10 10 Rum And Coca-Cola...Andrews Sisters 2. 3/17 2 Ac-Cent-Tchu-Ate The Positive ... Johnny Mercer 3. 3/31 7 My Dreams Are Getting Better All The Time ...Les Brown 4. 3/31 1 Candy ... Johnny Mercer, Jo Stafford & Pied Pipers 5. 4/14 2 I'm Beginning To See The Light... Harry James 6. 5/05 1 Dream ... Pied Pipers 7. 5/12 6 There! I've Said It Again...Vaughn Monroe 8. 5/26 9 Sentimental Journey... Les Brown 9. 7/28 8 On The Atchison, Topeka, And The Santa Fe ...Johnny Mercer 10. 9/15 10 Till The End Of Time...Perry Como 11. 11/17 4 Chickery Chick... Sammy Kaye 12. 11/24 3 It's Been A Long, Long Time... Harry James 13. 12/08 2 It's Been A Long, Long Time... Bing Crosby with Les Paul Trio 14. 12/15 6 I Can't Begin To Tell You ... Bing Crosby 15. 12/29 2 White Christmas ... Bing Crosby 1946 1. 1/05 2 Symphony... Freddy Martin 2. 1/26 5 Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!... Vaughn Monroe 3. 2/09 2 Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief... Betty Hutton 4. 3/02 2 Personality... Johnny Mercer 5. 3/16 11 Oh! What It Seemed To Be ... Frankie Carle 6. 3/23 8 Oh! What It Seemed To Be ... Frank Sinatra 7. 4/27 1 I'm A Big Girl Now ...Sammy Kaye 8. 5/04 3 Prisoner Of Love ... Perry Como 9. 5/18 8 The Gypsy ... Dinah Shore 10. 5/25 13 The Gypsy ... Ink Spots 11. 8/03 8 To Each His Own ... Eddy Howard 12. 8/03 1 Surrender ... Perry Como 13. 8/31 2 To Each His Own ... Freddy Martin 14. 9/14 4 Five Minutes More ... Frank Sinatra 15. 9/21 1 To Each His Own ... Ink Spots 16. 10/19 9 Rumors Are Flying ...Frankie Carle 17. 12/14 2 Ole Buttermilk Sky ... Kay Kyser 18. 12/28 7 The Old Lamp-Lighter...Sammy Kaye 19. 12/28 6 (I Love You) For Sentimental Reasons .. .Nat "King" Cole 1947 1. 1/04 1 White Christmas .. . Bing Crosby 2. 2/08 2 Huggin' And Chalkin .. .Hoagy Carmichael 3. 2/22 3 Managua, Nicaragua .. .Freddy Martin 4. 2/22 1 Open The Door, Richard!...Count Basie 5. 3/01 1 Open The Door, Richard!...Three Flames 6. 3/08 2 Anniversary Song .. . Dinah Shore 7. 3/15 13 Heartaches ... Ted Weems 8. 3/15 1 Managua, Nicaragua .. . Guy Lombardo 9. 5/10 2 Linda ... Ray Noble featuring Buddy Clark 10. 5/31 1 Mam'selle ... Frank Sinatra 11. 6/07 2 Mam'selle ... Art Lund 12. 6/21 8 Peg O' My Heart...Harmonicats 13. 6/28 3 Chi-Baba, Chi-Baba (My Bambino Go To Sleep)...Perry Como 14. 6/28 1 Temptation (Tim-Tayshun)... Red Ingle 15. 7/05 6 Peg O' My Heart... Buddy Clark 16. 8/09 6 Smoke! Smoke! Smoke! (That Cigarette)... Tex Williams 17. 8/09 4 Peg O'My Heart... Three Suns 18. 8/30 17 Near You ... Francis Craig 19. 12/13 10 Ballerina ... Vaughn Monroe 1948 1. 2/21 5 I'm Looking Over A Four-Leaf Clover ... Art Mooney 2. 3/13 9 Manana (Is Soon Enough For Me)... Peggy Lee 3. 4/24 3 Now Is The Hour ... Bing Crosby 4. 5/08 8 Nature Boy ... Nat "King" Cole 5. 5/22 7 You Can't Be True, Dear .. .Ken Griffin 6. 7/03 6 Woody Woodpecker .. . Kay Kyser 7. 8/14 6 You Call Everybody Darlin'... Al Trace 8. 8/14 5 Love Somebody .. . Doris Day & Buddy Clark 9. 8/28 8 Twelfth Street Rag ... Pee Wee Hunt 10. 10/09 5 A Tree In The Meadow ...Margaret Whiting 11. 11/06 10 Buttons And Bows .. . Dinah Shore 12. 12/25 3 All I Want For Christmas (Is My Two Front Teeth)...Spike Jones 1949 1. 1/15 7 A Little Bird Told Me ...Evelyn Knight 2. 1/15 1 My Darling, My Darling .. .Jo Stafford & Gordon Macrae 3. 3/05 1 I've Got My Love To Keep Me Warm ... Les Brown 4. 3/05 1 Powder Tour Face With Sunshine ... Evelyn Knight 5. 3/12 7 Cruising Down The River .. .Blue Barron 6. 3/26 7 Cruising Down The River ...Russ Morgan 7. 4/30 1 Careless Hands .. . Mel Torme 8. 5/07 2 "A" - You're Adorable ...Perry Como 9. 5/14 12 Riders In The Sky (A Cowboy Legend)...Vaughn Monroe 10. 5/14 3 Forever And Ever ... Russ Morgan 11. 7/30 5 Some Enchanted Evening... Perry Como 12. 9/03 4 You're Breaking My Heart... Vic Damone 13. 9/10 2 Someday ... Vaughn Monroe 14. 10/01 8 That Lucky Old Sun .. .Frankie Laine 15.11/12 3 Slippin' Around ... Margaret Whiting & Jimmy Wakely 16.11/26 6 Mule Train ... Frankie Laine 1950 1. 1/07 1 Rudolph, The Red-Nosed Reindeer ... Gene Autry 2. 1/14 5 I Can Dream, Can't I? ...Andrews Sisters 3. 2/11 8 Chattanoogie Shoe Shine Boy ... Red Foley 4. 2/11 2 Rag Mop ... Ames Brothers 5. 3/11 2 The Cry Of The Wild Goose... Frankie Laine 6. 3/18 4 Music! Music! Music!...Teresa Brewer 7. 3/25 10 If I Knew Ton Were Comin' I'd've Baked A Cake .. .Eileen Barton 8. 4/29 11 The Third Man Theme...Anton Karas 9. 5/06 11 The Third Man Theme .. .Guy Lombardo 10. 6/03 2 Hoop-Dee-Doo .. . Perry Como with Fontane Sisters 11. 6/10 1 Sentimental Me... Ames Brothers 12. 6/24 2 I Wanna Be Loved ...Andrews Sisters 13. 7/08 8 Mona Lisa ... Nat "King" Cole 14. 8/19 13 Goodnight, Irene .. .Weavers with Gordon Jenkins 15. 10/28 5 All My Love ... Patti Page 16. 11/18 4 Harbor Lights... Sammy Kaye 17. 12/02 5 The Thing ... Phil Harris 18. 12/16 13 The Tennessee Waltz...Patti Page John |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: JohnInKansas Date: 20 Feb 14 - 03:24 AM And the end of the list: 1951 1. 3/03 8 If... Perry Como 2. 3/10 1 Be My Love ... Mario Lanza 3. 4/21 9 How High The Moon ... Les Paul & Mary Ford 4. 6/23 5 Too Toung ... Nat "King" Cole 5. 7/28 8 Come On-A My House...Rosemary Clooney 6. 9/08 10 Because Of You .. . Tony Bennett 7. 11/03 6 Cold, Cold Heart... Tony Bennett 8. 11/17 8 Sin (It's No Sin)... Eddy Howard 9. 12/29 11 Cry... Johnnie Ray 1952 1. 1/05 3 Slow Poke ... Pee Wee King 2. 3/15 10 Wheel Of Fortune... Kay Stan 3. 5/17 7 Kiss Of Fire... Georgia Gibbs 4. 5/17 5 Blue Tango .. . Leroy Anderson 5. 5/24 1 A Guy Is A Guy... Doris Day 6. 6/07 3 Here In My Heart... Al Martino 7. 7/05 1 Delicado ... Percy Faith 8. 7/12 9 AufWiederseh'n Sweetheart ... Vera Lynn 9. 7/26 3 Half As Much ... Rosemary Clooney 10. 9/06 1 Wish You Were Here ...Eddie Fisher 11. 9/13 12 You Belong To Me ... Jo Stafford 12. 9/27 10 I Went To Your Wedding...Patti Page 13. 11/22 2 It's In The Book... Johnny Standley 14. 11/29 6 Why Don't Ton Believe Me... Joni James 15. 12/06 3 The Glow-Worm ... Mills Brothers 16. 12/27 2 I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus... Jimmy Boyd 1953 1. 1/10 5 Don't Let The Stars Get In Your Eyes ... Perry Como 2. 2/14 7 Till I Waltz Again With You... Teresa Brewer 3. 3/21 8 The Doggie In The Window... Patti Page 4. 5/16 10 Song From "Moulin Rouge" (Where Is Tour Heart)...Percy Faith 5. 7/04 7 I'm Walking Behind You ...Eddie Fisher 6. 8/08 11 Vaya Con Dios (May God Be With You)... Les Paul & Mary Ford 7. 8/15 4 No Other Love... Perry Como 8. 9/26 8 You You You ... Ames Brothers 9. 10/10 4 St. George And The Dragonet... Stan Freberg 10. 11/21 8 Rags To Riches ... Tony Bennett 1954 1. 1/02 8 Oh! My Pa-Pa... Eddie Fisher 2. 2/27 4 Secret Love ... Doris Day 3. 3/13 7 Make Love To Me!... Jo Stafford 4. 4/10 8 Wanted ... Perry Como 5. 6/05 9 Little Things Mean A Lot... Kitty Kallen 6. 7/24 1 Three Coins In The Fountain... Four Aces 7. 8/07 9 Sh-Boom ... Crew-Cuts 8. 9/25 6 Hey There ... Rosemary Clooney 9. 11/06 3 This Ole House... Rosemary Clooney 10. 11/13 3 I Need You Now... Eddie Fisher 11. 12/04 7 Mr. Sandman... Chordettes John |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Will Fly Date: 20 Feb 14 - 04:11 AM John - I read through your 100 most recorded songs post with great interest, counted up and reckoned I still play over half of them, and quite a few I've recorded as solos on YouTube. That's a quasi-jazz background for you... It seems to be some people over here in the UK who get hung up on the 1954 tradition, rather than our friends in the US. The borders between different styles of popular music in the US seem much more fluid, and the attitude much more relaxed. What I say is, if the 1954 definition fits your idea of what you want to play and sing, then go to it. If it doesn't, then go to it anyway. As my great-grandmother from Kildare used to say, "Have what you will - and pay for it." |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 20 Feb 14 - 04:35 AM the difference is I guess, that they've never had what we had in the 1960's - a healthy folkscene where anyone could get up and do a floorspot. in those days as a teenager I would have a twiddle on someone's guitar in the interval - and people would be quite concerned that I wasn't getting up there and giving it a bash. then came the 1970's when the traddie gauleiters started deciding who was folk music and who wasn't. and all this 1954 bollocks kicked in. in the states I get the feeling apart from out west, it was always if not a spectator sport - certainly a performance with great expectations game. the revival never belonged to the people in the same way as it did over here. perhaps that was something the skiffle era gave us. we had a revolution and a schism. god knows what they had - the memory of Greenwich village and central park seems very dear to them. but I don't think they had that time when there was afolk club in every hamlet and several in every town where anyone could get up and sing. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 20 Feb 14 - 05:02 AM correction that should Washington square - not central park |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Will Fly Date: 20 Feb 14 - 05:03 AM One of the interesting things about the recently shown 1984 documentary about the Everly Brothers was how, in the mining area that their family lived in, families and communities played and sang together and made music together - in church, in bars, at dances and in the home. It was just embedded in the community - with lots of home-grown talented singers and musicians. There wouldn't have been a need for "folk clubs" in that environment - and the music performed ranged from the traditional to the composed. Just music - without tags. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: IanC Date: 20 Feb 14 - 07:28 AM Sorry, I've started looking at this thread quite late ... About WWI (above), I don't think it's too surprising that there is no sign of popular war-oriented songs. These are US charts and the USA was not involved in WWI at all until April 1917. Even after that, there was no really significant battlefield presence by US forces until the spring of 1918, so they were only really there for 6 months. Total US troop deaths in WWI, by the way, amounted to 110,000 of which 43,000 were due to the flu epidemic (this killed 675,000 people in the USA during 1918/19). There don't seem to be any songs about that either. Ian |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 20 Feb 14 - 10:34 AM John, I believe you posted the wrong question right at the start of this thread. YOu are posing an Irrelevant When. Don't ask When a song gets to be folk, ask How. I would say that a song gets to be folk: 1. If it has a melody people can easily remember. 2. If it has repetition, such as a verse/refrain form 3. If it uses simple chords. Am, not A7aug6dim 4. If it deals with timeless events. Love, birth, death, beer. Not sportscars, texting or computers. ========== Once I was having a spat with the DH about another relative. I said, "Your sister said he only calls when he wants money," and the DH huffed himself up and demanded, "WHEN did she say that?" Right then I realized that when she said it didn't matter a bit. That's when I conceived the idea of the Irrelevant When. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 20 Feb 14 - 11:59 AM your comments rang a bell with me. I looked up what Eddie Condon was playing around that time at his first gigs keep the home fires burning, over there, how you gonna keep them down on the farm now that they've seen paree, Tiperary, Rose of no man's land, til we meet again, pack up your troubles in your old kit bag, liberty bell its time to ring again, oh how I hate to get up in the morning. ref; we called it music by eddie condon |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 20 Feb 14 - 12:22 PM Ian C, on 19 Feb 14, I posted the WW1 songs from 1917 that made the U. S. Billboard and were popular for several weeks. They number 11. Five of the top 10 Billboard listing are war or patriot oriented, and 9 of the top 20. This seems, to me, to be a goodly proportion. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Bert Date: 20 Feb 14 - 01:39 PM Very meaningful comments Leenia. We need a LIKE button here on Mudcat. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: JohnInKansas Date: 20 Feb 14 - 03:42 PM Leenia says: John, I believe you posted the wrong question right at the start of this thread That was deliberate, since I wanted to avoid immediately starting another debate about "what is folk." With the list now up here for everyone to see, that discussion is appropriate enough now that all the "evidence" is there for everyone to see, but could have stopped the whole thread if begun too quickly. Several have already noted that there is a significant difference between "what is folk" for one side of the sea and "what is folk" for those of us in the US, and that was really the puzzle I hoped would discussed - although not the only useful one to be welcomed DO NOTE, once more, that the lists posted are ONLY THE SONGS THAT GOT TO "NUMBER ONE" ON THE CHARTS. The book does provide "all of the songs that were on the charts," The organization (or lack of it) for the book didn't present a realistic prospect of extracting more useful and more complete information from that section, or from the "Artists" section, for posting here. The TABLE OF CONTENTS (slightly edited) for the book might be helpful: CONTENTS Introduction / Researching the Charts / Chart Synopsis /Chronology of Milestones in Popular Music History 1877-1954 (Approx 10 not very interesting pages) THE ARTISTS (Approx 460 pages) An alphabetical listing by artist of every record to make America's popular music charts from 1890 through 1954 THE SONGS (Approx 200 pages) An alphabetical listing by song title of every record to make America's popular music charts from 1890 through 1954 THE ACHIEVEMENTS (beginning page 621) The Top 100 Artists 1890-1954 (beginning page 623) The Top 10 Artists By Decade (beginning page 625) Top Artist Achievements [Most Charted Records; Most #1 Records; Longest Chart Careers] (page 626) The Top 100 Hits 1890-1954 (page 627) The Top 10 Hits By Decade (page 629) The Biggest-Selling Records 1890-1954 (page 631) The Most-Recorded Songs (Pre-1955) (page 632) The Best-Selling Sheet Music Songs 1890-1954 (page 634) The Academy Award-Winning Songs (page 635) National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences Hall of Fame (page 636) Billboard Disc Jockey Polls: All-Time Favorite Records, All-Time Favorite Songs (page 638) Billboard College Surveys: Favorite Bands and Band Singers (page 640) The #1 Hits (Listed Chronologically) 1890-1954 642 The last entry, The #1 Hits, is the main one posted here, and even that one looked shorter (and simpler) than it turned out to be. The main two sections of the book, The Artists and The Songs, are listed alphabetically without regard to when the artist/song hit the charts. Organizing information from these two would have been a very large task that I'm not prepared to take on immediately. Most of the other sections are perhaps short enough to post, if someone wants to pose an applicable (IMO) question, although I can't promise instant response. John |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: JennieG Date: 20 Feb 14 - 04:40 PM Some folk festivals in Oz have a "Rock 'n' Roll Night", when well known performers get up on stage with a backing band and perform the songs of their youth.....I once saw Eric Bogle sing 'Heartbreak Hotel' and have a great time doing it.....and they are always great fun concerts. Rob Willis, a well known and respected music and folklore collector, once said to me "rock music is our folk music"; he was talking about a generational thing (we're of a similar age, we were teenagers in the 60s) but he's right, you know. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: GUEST,LynnH Date: 21 Feb 14 - 01:28 PM It gets to be 'folk' when a song or tune is introduced as 'traditional' or 'an old folk song'............ |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 21 Feb 14 - 01:39 PM When people play or sing songs they like, not knowing, or having forgotten, and not caring about the source. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Bert Date: 22 Feb 14 - 02:40 AM Yes Q, that is about what I do. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 22 Feb 14 - 10:45 AM John, I know what you mean. Here at the Mudcat there are far more arguers than players, that's for sure. Q, I was going to say that, but words failed me. You expressed it better. Cute story: Last year my sis-in-law asked me to demonstrate the dulcimer for her sophisticated friends. I was both wary and leery; they were looking at me as if I were some mysterious animal that had just emerged from a burrow. But I felt that I should oblige my sis-in-law, so I played a couple of things. My husband suggested 'My Grandfather's Clock,' and they all denied ever having heard of it. I thought to myself, "Television generation..." but started playing. When I got to the chorus, they all chimed in! They knew it, they just didn't know they knew it. All ended well, and I think we can say that that 1850's parlor song is now a folk song. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: MGM·Lion Date: 22 Feb 14 - 01:19 PM But, Q ~~ I always know, and remember, and care about the source of any song I sing -- folk or otherwise. Isn't that allowed? Does that prevent its being folk, if that is what it is? Everybody seems to be sycophantically going on about what a great insight that is of yours. But ~~ sorry to be the ☠ at the feast ~~ it seems great nonsense to me. ~M~ |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: Bert Date: 22 Feb 14 - 03:12 PM That is allowed ~M~. There are many definitions that are appropriate for a particular song, singer or local environment. That is why there are always these long arguments. It is not that the 1954 definition is wrong, just that some of us think that it is incomplete. It also suffers from the fact that some researchers, like Bruce Olsen, have found earlier published versions of many folk songs which once would have met the 1954 criteria. Another indication that a song may be headed in the direction of Folk, is when a member of the audience requests it. It means that a song is memorable enough at that location that somebody wants to hear it again. |
Subject: RE: When Does it Get to Be Folk? From: keberoxu Date: 05 Nov 15 - 08:05 PM Will Fly's post about an documentary on the Everly Brothers struck a chord with me. Myself, I arrived in the world with the television generation. I had relatives two generations back, however, who recalled life without cinema or television, and precious little radio. These elders remembered being part of a community in which it was rare to go out and attend something like theater, a concert, or any unruly combination thereof. They remembered when families stayed at home and entertained themselves and each other. Music was a big part of this, although it was not limited expressly to music. And there were no gramophones or record players then. Sorry if this sounds like a digression. But it does make one reflect. |
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