BS: Queens English??

Subject: BS: Queens English??
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 06:39 PM

Or is it Queen's English? It seems that the home of our allegedly common language has decided that using an apostrophe to mark a possessive noun is no longer necessary. What's next...or would that be whats next? More here.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 06:49 PM

Since when was Birmingham the 'home' of the English language?

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 07:04 PM

I've seen some novels which are completely without any quotation marks in the dialogue. Apparently that is a new trend and okay with some of the big publishers, etc! Imagine what would happen to journalism without them!

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: John O'L
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 08:36 PM

It's the Queen's English.

"England's second-largest city has decided to drop apostrophes from all its street signs, saying they're confusing and old-fashioned"

The're only confusing to the uneducated and there is no-one less educated than he who is proud of his ignorance.
Old fashioned they are. No harm in that.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 08:55 PM

Apostrophes are kind of like the US Constitution. Quaint, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 09:15 PM

But it takes SOOOOOOO much effort to use apostrophes and SOOOOOOOO much mental effort to know when and when not to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 10:19 PM

And it is SOOOOOOO a mark of elitism to be known to actually have *shudder* studied in school....that is, studied anything except 'how to get ahead without studying'.

The "dumbing down" of the great unwashed masses is proceeding apace.

(*note* my spell checker knows what 'apace' means)

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Gurney
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 10:46 PM

Brave, isn't it, for Brummies to decide that they don't have to write English proper.
Ar our kid!

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 10:59 PM

Apostrophe. Astral. Impetigo. Bacchanalia. Its. It's. Feral. Impediment. Corporeal. Regina. Saskatoon. Pithy. Pneumonia. Gladiola. Hyacinth. Hundredweight. Centennial. Pancreas. Strait. Straight. Homonym. Antonym. Pleurisy. Sacroiliac. Bodacious. Salacious. Diarrhea. Millipede.

Funny. I'll bet my spell checker is smarter than a lot of college graduates. Then again I also spelled them right the first time.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 11:50 PM

Morgan, my grandson, was playing a game on pbskids.org, today. It used characters from Sesame Street and one of them said "post haste" so it's not all being dumbed down. There were more examples, plus he's always asking what something means and we don't dumb it down for him. There are more of us out there. And, look at what a great example the Obamas are for education!

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 04:52 AM

Art Brooks, after Trevethick, it was Watts next.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 05:14 AM

Queens English is spoken in NY, isn't it? - I thought this was going to be a US thread!

Kitty (looking for her coat)

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 06:12 AM

Not quite true. The apostrophes are being dropped from street signs. It's already common practice to drop the apostrophe in place names.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 06:15 AM

BTW, wasn't Queens (NYC) originally Queen's County?

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Paul Burke
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 06:54 AM

Apostrophe's are 'stupid. They are only in the language by mi'stake, because'some 16th century grammarian's decided that the sole remaining trace of ca'se ending's in the Engli'sh langiage wa's in fact a contraction of "hi's". Totally erroneou's of cour'se. Practically every other language manages without them.

People witter about the possibility of confusion if they aren't used, these unobservant birds failing to note that at least 99% of the language is spoken, and you can't hear an apostrophe. We manage well enough without accents; the apostrophe should be treated as what it is, a way of allowing the lower-middle-classes to feel superior. There's probably no use for possessive apostrophe's. Now stop worrying about them and enjoy life.

Men's sana in corpore sano.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 07:11 AM

I don't think anyone else has made this observation,

and chances are that the mistake was deliberate,

but the "whats" in the "whats next" of the original post isn't possessive but an abbreviation of "what is" as in "what is next?"

The apostrophe exists to remove confusion and is really easy to understand.

You don't have to do anything you don't want to do, but if you don't learn soomething properly then don't complain when you can't understand it.

If someone has written you a note and they aren't present then an apostrophe can negate the need to ask them what they mean exactly. It removes ambiguity from a sentence or phrase and clarifies the intended meaning of a persons words.

That way we're speaking the same language.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 07:21 AM

or should that be "of a person's words"?

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: s&r
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 07:30 AM

I'd forgotten how particular my junior school teacher was about speech marks. Then I heard a teacher in one of the schools where I work saying "Remember, 66 to open the speech, and 99 to close it".

In common with I would guess 99% of the English speaking world I jus use two dashes. Just like the font on this.

What's the plural of photo?

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 07:36 AM

You must be using a different font to me!

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: bobad
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 07:50 AM

Quebec was way ahead in outlawing apostrophes on public signs, they have been illegal there since 1974.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: greg stephens
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 07:58 AM

AS Manitas pointed out, this is a controversy about nothing. Apostrophes have been generally removed from placenames and road names ages ago(if they were ever there in the first place). Look on any OS map. Jacksons Lane, Malkins Bank, Charles Bottom, Hunters Way. A sample from places I know well, I am sure we can all produce hundreds. Obviously, in formal grammatical terms you would expect apostrophes, but custom dictates you don't use them in place names. That's the way it is. I am happy with that. I am not happy with "new potato's". or "its going to rain" It's all a qustion of usage and prejudice.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 08:40 AM

Apostrophes are also usually omitted from flu 'flu' = influenza
and bus 'bus = omnibus, which is Latin, meaning 'for all'

Maybe photo should be photo' = photograph, in which case the plural WOULD be photo's.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 10:21 AM

No, the plural of "photograph" is "photographs." And it is wrong, because both come from the Greek and it would mean "light writing." "Photoimage" would probably be more correct.

But why just ban the apostrophe?

lets ban all punctuation and rules silly and put adjectives and other descriptors after the noun like the romance languages do or even get back to the rootsenglish and create newwords by slamming existingwords together as the germans do after all so that were not troubled by sillystupiddumbgrammarrules which only serve to confuse us anyway we could even incorporate texting cutshorts into it and u cn c how all ths wd assist us in having clear n good commo

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 10:29 AM

It dont matter at all s long as they all says it same as wot I does. Y dooit eff to be don the propr way anyway? I ask yer?

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 12:11 PM

re: spellcheckers...

I can spell pretty well, but I am NOT a good typist, and I do some dyslexic stuff. It is a real boon to my life to have a spell checker working 'live' as I work. (I actually have two going part of the time.... 'TinySpell' is always there, beeping at questionable words, and in some browsers I have a 2nd one which underlines or highlights suspicious combinations.

As to punctuation: there are cases of legal documents being questioned because of misplaced apostrophes or commas. There are quite good reasons for making written words absolutely clear.

(One of MY complaints is scattering excessive punctuation about in seemingly random ways. I have seen sentences, with commas stuck in, which don't help, at all.)

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 12:28 PM

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment 3 - Quartering of Soldiers.

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment 5 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Talk about punctuation causing trouble!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: MartinRyan
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 12:52 PM

It's all about 'aving everything in its proper place - including lowly apostrophes.

There's a well known hostelry a few miles from here , known for generations as "Paddy Burkes". No doubt it had an apostrophe at one stage - but it has long since disappeared. They recently put up a sign on the entrance to their car park saying:

Reserved for Paddy Burkes's Customers

I like it!

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 02:06 PM

I don't like a'p'o's't'r'o'p'h'e's' and they don't like me.

We agree to differ, and we do that quite regularly.

Commas too.

Or should that be ,'s 2


Since I've been on the internet, I've realised that 's are actually Weapons of Grammasical Destruction, used by Grammar Terrorists who haunt messageboard's serching for misteaks' then rubbin' peoples's nose'ss's in 'em, as deep as, they, can.

I prefer Queen Elizabeth I'f Englifh, it'f' far more fun.

:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 02:06 PM

Rapaire, for a moment I thought you were seriously quoting the Constitution, but it got so weird that I had to Google to be sure that your tongue was firmly implanted in your cheek.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 02:09 PM

OOPF!

"Grammassical Destruction."

Fee? I alway's get it wrong..

Hmmmmm....maybe that fhould be Grammaffical Deftruction, if we're talkin' Queen'f Englifh..

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Rog Peek
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 02:23 PM

Someone should put Martin Mullaney right on a couple of things:

1. Punctuation is taught in Primary Schools, you don't need an A level Diploma. Furthermore, his ommisions on street signs are not exactly going to help the teaching of punctuation in Birmingham schools.

2. If we simply ignored and dismissed all those things that we find confusing, many of us would learn very little.

Rog

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: artbrooks
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 02:24 PM

Dave O: except for the headings, Rapaire's offerings are word-for-word and punctuation-by-punctuation.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 02:44 PM

I have never understood why anyone has problems with apostrophes. If I see them in the wrong place it's like waving a red flag just like incorrect spellings. I even put them into text messages.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 03:27 PM

If we simply ignored and dismissed all those things that we find confusing, many of us would learn very little.

I myself wouldn't know anything at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Alice
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 03:33 PM

They call the apostrophe OLD FASHIONED!
What are they THINKING?

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Alice
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 03:50 PM

This dumbing down of language reminds me of the Republican party's habit , esp. Bush and DeLay recently, of using only the noun Democrat rather than the adjective Democratic. They didn't want the Democratic Party to be called by its name... the Democratic Party. Now they have promoted the misuse so much that I've even seen the grammatical error used in BBC news reports.

"Democrat as an adjective was still sometimes used by some twentieth-century Republicans as a campaign tool but was used with particular virulence by the late senator Joseph R. McCarthy of Wisconsin, a Republican who sought by repeatedly calling it the Democrat party to deny it any possible benefit of the suggestion that it might also be democratic." - wikipedia

Sorry for the bit of thread drift, but it irks me when people deliberately assume the language should change because they think people are too ignorant to use grammar correctly, or for manipulative reasons like Democrat for Democratic.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 03:55 PM

"AS Manitas pointed out, this is a controversy about nothing. Apostrophes have been generally removed from placenames and road names ages ago(if they were ever there in the first place). Look on any OS map. Jacksons Lane, Malkins Bank, Charles Bottom, Hunters Way. A sample from places I know well, I am sure we can all produce hundreds. Obviously, in formal grammatical terms you would expect apostrophes, but custom dictates you don't use them in place names. That's the way it is."

Indeed. I always have to remind myself to take the apostrophe out of Abbots Bromley...

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 04:09 PM

I alwayf have to remind myfelf not to take the apoftrophe piff out of Prattf Bottom'f

;0)

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 04:39 PM

Yes topsie ... thanks ... (gives dirty look)

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: HuwG
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 04:54 PM

I propose first to perform "Finnegan's Wake". I hope you all enjoy this traditional Irish ditty. I then intend to read "Finnegans Wake". By Chapter 4, you will probably need straitjackets. I hope you don't confuse the two works of art.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 05:15 PM

In the feventeenth and eighteenth centuries.. our fuper language used to fport a different appearance. In those days you could fuck your lollipop without anyone faying anything. How times have changed.. what are we worriyng about now.

GO ON fomeone fay fomething!

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Gervase
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 05:19 PM

Aye, I've had cause to rant at subs who've stuck an apostrophe into Finnegans Wake. Apart from that, however, I do like to use them. English is confusing enough as it is, without removing some of the little signposts and waymarkers.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 06:58 PM

if it were done when tis done then twere well it were done quickly if the assassination could trammel up the consequence and catch with his surcease success that but this blow might be the beall and the endall here but here upon this bank and shoal of time weld jump the life to come but in these cases we still have judgment here that we but teach bloody instructions which being taught return to plague the inventor this evenhanded justice commends the ingredients of our poisond chalice to our own lips hes here in double trust first as I am his kinsman and his subject strong both against the deed then as his host who should against his murderer shut the door not bear the knife myself besides this Duncan hath borne his faculties so meek hath been so clear in his great office that his virtues will plead like angels trumpettongued against the deep damnation of his takingoff and pity like a naked newborn babe striding the blast or heaven's cherubim horsed upon the sightless couriers of the air shall blow the horrid deed in every eye that tears shall drown the wind i have no spur to prick the sides of my intent but only vaulting ambition which oerleaps itself and falls on the other

I find punctuation and other grammatical tricks to be useful in reading....

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 07:16 PM

"I alwayf have to remind myfelf not to take the apoftrophe piff out of Prattf Bottom'f"

And I always have to remind myself not to respectfully suggest that certain posters smear mustard on it, call it a sausage, and shove it up their arse.

:)

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: John O'L
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 08:24 PM

What's the plural of photo?

My greengrocer assures me it's "photoes", but what would he know? He only knows about tomato's & potato's. Maybe even apple's.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Gurney
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 01:11 AM

Lizzie and Georgiansilver, have you read any old print documents? The original (in English, anyway) typeface had a lowercase 'S' that was very like an 'F,' except that the little crossing halfway up was only on one side of the upright element. It made the documents hard to read, especially to modern eyes, but it was still an 'S'.
I once read an archival early copy of Canterbury Tales. Pretty hard work.

I live in a suburb called Bucklands Beach. It was once a farm belonging to the Buckland family. SAD (Streetname Apostrophe Deletion) is spreading worldwide.
Removing the periods from acronyms is also gaining ground.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Paul Burke
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 06:17 AM

Sad to see you're all still scared of Teacher. You CAN hear a comma, by the way; just as you can hear a semicolon. And full stops. You can hear a colon too, especially if my brother's around.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: MartinRyan
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 06:27 AM

But how do I know you're Brother Surround?

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Arnie
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 07:07 AM

Will Queen's English become King's English when Charlie takes over? Just a thought. And another thought is that language constantly evolves, otherwise we'd still be saying things like 'Gadzooks, quoth the knave' or some such. Perhaps dropping the apostrophe is the next step in English language evolution?

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 08:22 AM

Gurney... I have read many old books which were available at my school and my interest in Antiques has allowed me to indulge the enjoyment I get from reading things written, not only with the pseudo f as s but with the kind of grammar that was prevalent in those days. People knew how to express themselves so much better... and without all the expletives that we see now. Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: bubblyrat
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 11:12 AM

"A woman,without her man,is nothing."

                  Or :

    "A Woman ; without her,Man is nothing."




And some of you want to get rid of punctuation marks in English altogether ??? Please, GET REAL !!! How on earth can we expect young people to cope with foreign languages if they are not taught the rules of grammar AND punctuation of their own ?? Must go now--got to make a 'phone-call about 'bus and 'plane tickets !!

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 11:21 AM

I think we have to be realistic here inasmuch as everything is evolving including language... New words are being introduced and old ones are disappearing from everyday use. The one thing that really does annoy me is how many... not just children.. but adults too, use the word 'of' instead of 'have'...... for instance... "He should have done it" has become "He should of done it" which in no way makes sense but I see the word of regularly used this way instead of have. We have to allow the language to evolve but I guess the rules ought to remain as they always have been.... or should they????????????

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 11:29 AM

"And I always have to remind myself not to respectfully suggest that certain posters smear mustard on it, call it a sausage, and shove it up their arse"


GADZOOKF!

You fhove muftard faufagef up your arfe?

(Utterly Fhocked Fmiley!)

Far better to fuck them, I'd' fay.

;0)

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: meself
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 11:30 AM

Shouldn't there be a limit on the number of question marks and exclamation points allowed at the end of sentences??!! Back in my day, people knew the value of a good question mark, while if you had an exclamation point to spare, you were considered a wealthy man!

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 12:13 PM

It is not "of" but the contraction of "should have" -- "He should've done it." The sound of the contraction leads to the error in writing.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 12:59 PM

ƒuprise
fuprise
suprise

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 02:33 PM

Bill, ifn't it furprifing to find there'f an 'r' in furprife? (???!!)

I love thif thread! It'f fo filly! :0) lol

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: gnu
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 03:01 PM

Indeed. One should try TO write correctly. If you try AND write correctly, you should be hung, drawn and quartered.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 04:42 PM

OOPF!

Can't' say 'hung', ifn't it 'hanged'? :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Gurney
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 05:15 PM

But Gnu, if you try, and write correctly, surely that should lead to a reduced sentence, although extended by a comma?

It has been many years since I read original print with the f-shaped s, but wasn't it mostly used as the first letter of a double s, as in "Pafs the safsafrafs!"??? (These for meself.)

If there's a good reason for change, then I'm in favour of it.
To change a language because some people are too idle, inattentive, impatient, or just too plain stupid to learn it, is not a good reason.

I can read TXT, but I can also read English. I prefer English.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: gnu
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 05:38 PM

Well, Gurney, your question would lead me to ask, "What are you trying?"

One cannot "Try and do... ". One can "Try to do...." If one were to "Try and do...", why would one try?... what would one do? I understand is it common vernacular, but that does not make it proper or logical. Actually, screw proper... if it is not logical, it is not language; not the Queen's nor any other.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: MartinRyan
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 06:15 PM

Read Gurney again, gnu! If you try, and write correctly..."

Me? I'd use a dash there. There!

Regards
p.s. There, there...

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Gurney
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 08:17 PM

Just a feeble try, er, attempt, at humour, Gnu. A play on the meanings of 'sentence.'
I do agree with you, and I'll bet I have even more grammatical bees in my bonnet than you have. I won't sing ungrammatical songs. They make me wince.



People who write such songs DON'T CARE, though.

I'm not a grammarian. Just someone who likes English, as you do yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 09:56 PM

People have been hanged, pictures have been hung. Of course, one who is hanged could also be hung.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 10:08 PM

Mrs. Duck -- I'm with you. I use apostrophes when they are needed and I don't think they are that difficult.......I think it would be much more confusing without them

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: eddie1
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 02:06 AM

Paul Burke – re hearing punctuation, Pronouncing punctuation, as in the wonderful recording by Victor Borge, should be taught at all schools. There would then be no possible misunderstanding. My colons are heard on a regular, and effusive basis. Am I related to your brother?

Use of the "f" instead of "s" continued in German script for much later than in the UK. This resulted in the oft-misunderstood poem by Matt McGinn about an event in the German city of Essen (or Effen)

The Big Effen Bee
(Matt McGinn)

He kept bees in the old town of Effen,
An Effen beekeeper was he,
And one day this Effen beekeeper,
Was stung by a big Effen bee.

Now this big Effen beekeeper's wee Effen wife,
For the big Effen polis she ran,
For there's nobody can sort out a big Effen bee,
Like a big Effen polisman can.

This big Effen polisman he came right away,
And he ran down the main Effen street,
In his hand was a big Effen baton,
He had big Effen boots on his feet.

He grabbed the big Effen bee round its big Effen neck
And he choked it till it grew Effen pale
But the big Effen bee had the last Effen laugh
It had two Effen stings in its tail.

Now they're both in the Effen museum,
Where the Effen folk often come see,
The remains of the big Effen polis,
Stung to death by the big Effen bee.

That's the end of that wee Effen story,
'Tis an innocent wee Effen tale,
But if you ever tell it in Effen,
You'll end up in the old Effen jail.

Eddie

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: eddie1
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 02:10 AM

Try here:-

Phonetic Punctuation


Eddie

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 04:51 AM

Who led the Pedants' Revolt ?

Which Tyler.

(I'll get my Barbour . . . )

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 05:50 AM

Wat????????

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: bubblyrat
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:42 AM

When people say to me " Can I ask you a question?", I always reply "What? Another one ?".
My wife used to say to me "The lawn needs cutting badly !" to which I invariably riposted " No ! It needs cutting WELL !"
                     I remember reading all the "Saint" books,by Leslie Charteris. He always wrote "The Saint lighted another cigarette" , never "lit" !! (The cigarette was indeed "lit",because the Saint "lighted" it ! )
                I cannot STAND it when people say " I was sat in a chair" instead of "I was sitting in a chair", or "I was stood in the road" instead of "I was standing in the road". " I stood", or "I sat" are both fine,of course, but not ,ever,with "WAS" .I wonder how many so-called "teachers" actually know that ( or even care ??).

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 11:23 AM

One of MY complaints is scattering excessive punctuation about in seemingly random ways. I have seen sentences, with commas stuck in, which don't help, at all.) Rap

Rapaire, you missed a comma. There should be one here: "with commas, stuck in,"

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: gnu
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 12:50 PM

Sorry about the tone of my posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: bubblyrat
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 01:15 PM

Monday,02/02/09, 1810 hrs.   I have just watched,with total incredulity,an item on the main BBC 6 o'clock evening news,featuring the effect of the recent catastrophic half-inch of paralysing snow upon the entire nation,where,apparently,a major London hospital has cancelled, I quote, several " CLINIC'S " ------So,just what are "CLINIC'S" ?? Are they similar to "CLINICS" ( the generally accepted plural of the word "CLINIC" ) ??? Unbelievable !!

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: bubblyrat
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 01:29 PM

The point is----it's not so much a question of getting people to USE apostrophes, but,rather,to STOP them from using them (until they know how to !!).

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 03:01 PM

:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 03:21 PM

Ebbie, I don't, remember, writing or, saying, that;

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: s&r
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:09 PM

Space before punctuation marks or after?

Why isn't Mr M'r?

How do you dot your i's and cross your t's?

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Queens English??
From: Gurney
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 09:39 PM

Wondered that myself, s&r, but all titles are. Mr., Mrs., Ms., Dr. And, after I've finished writing that word, with plain dots and extravagant crossings.