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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Richard Bridge Date: 10 Nov 10 - 06:17 PM So, Jack, why don't you read my explanation about a million posts above about the difference between liability for the negligence of an employee and liability for the negligence of a subcontractor, and then point us to the words of the lease that make BP liable for the damage caused by their subcontractors, or STFO? Or maybe you're a bigot? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Jack the Sailor Date: 10 Nov 10 - 06:26 PM yes, of course, I didn't read your post so I am a bigot. Makes as much sense as the premise of this thread. I once scolded an English setter for crapping on my lawn. That makes me a bigot to. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Arthur_itus Date: 10 Nov 10 - 06:34 PM Are you sure it was an English Setter or maybe it was an Irish Setter or a Black Welsh Setter, Jack The Sailor? Fancy having a go at a dog. You Yanks got it wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: robomatic Date: 10 Nov 10 - 06:41 PM I was irritated by the very public quote in which counsel said they'd studied the 'heck' out of the matter and: "We have not seen a single instance where a human being made a conscious decision to favour dollars over safety." Reason is, most executives don't make a conscious decision to 'do bad things'. I know plenty of BP folks (most of 'em in the US are American, BTW, and they don't get up in the morning saying "I'm going to foster corporate profits by endangering the lives of my fellow workers." However, BP corporate decisions led to the Texas City 'massacre' and at least one fatal accident on the North Slope and they for sure contributed to the Offshore debacle in this instance. They are not alone, but they are not wide-eyed innocents. They played with safety margins at the very least. Now they haven't got off scot free and I think they are entitled to seek co-payments from some of the other involved companies, but that counsel really irritated me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 10 Nov 10 - 09:17 PM Damage to coral may bode ill for Gulf Cain Burdeau, Associated Press, Nov. 6, 2010 Federal scientists have found damage to deep sea coral and other marine life on the ocean floor several miles from the blown-out BP well. Damage could be considerably greater than officials had acknowledged. Charles Fisher, biologist with Pennsylvania State Univ. who led the expedition aboard a National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Research vessel. "He said "There is an abundance of circumstantial data that suggests that what happened is related to the recent oil spill." Most of the bottom is muddy, but coral areas are oases for marine life. Will oil bring death to Gulf's rich web of life? Miami Herald-Tribune, Kate Spinner, Nov. 6, 2010. Worries voiced by David Hollander, chemical oceanographer, Univ. South Florida. The extent of damage to plankton may not be known for 1-2 years. Dr. William Rea, Environmental Health Center, Dallas, expert on chemical injury, has been featured in several articles concerning illnesses associated with the oil spill. A recent one, Nov. 11 on TV, concerns the dispersant used by BP. "Health impacts include headaches, vomiting, diarrhoea, abdominal pains, chest pains, respiratory system damage, skin sensitisation, hypertension, central nervous system (CNS) depression, neurotoxic effects, cardiac arrhythmia and cardiovascular damage. The chemicals are also teratogenic, mutagenic and carcinogenic." 1.9 million gallons were released. The impact may not be known for some time. Ingestion in food is a major worry. http://planetthrive.com/2010/11/dr-rea-treating-bp-oil-spill-victims/ From article by Dahr Jamail, Nov. 10, 2010. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Teribus Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:40 AM "However, BP corporate decisions led to the Texas City 'massacre'" What caused your Texas City 'massacre' was a decision taken 7 years before BP even owned the refinery, a decision taken the Amoco management of the day who did not lose their jobs, and who were not replaced by BP when they took over the refinery, so the place retained its working practices and safety culture - "business as usual". Go back and read through the coverage of the Deepwater Horizon Blow Out and count the articles where any of the other players are mentioned by name. Mind you for some it has been an education, after all at the start of this thread you have people insisting that it was BP doing the drilling. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 07 Dec 10 - 08:08 AM An internal safety review passed to the Today programme shows that Transocean - the company operating BP's Deepwater Horizon oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico - narrowly avoided a similar accident in the North Sea, four months earlier. The blowout happened on Shell's Sedco 711 platform on 23 December last year as the Transocean crew was preparing to switch from a drilling operation to production, bringing the reservoir in stream. The report, a nine-page safety review of the incident, details a series of errors and misjudgements that led to the blowout. In a marked parallel with the Deepwater Horizon disaster, key indicators that something was going badly wrong were either misinterpreted or discounted - in this case in favour of a positive pressure test from a valve at the base of the well. That valve had been dislodged, or damaged, in earlier operations and the report concludes: "The risk perception of barrier failure was blinkered by the positive inflow test." By the time the crew realised there was a problem oil and gas from the reservoir was forcing its way up the drill shaft and out onto the rig. Crucially there was not enough heavy mud available to pump back down into the well, counteracting the kick, or surge of gas and oil. A major spill was averted only when the BOP, or blowout preventer, was activated capping-off the well on the sea floor. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/today/tomfeilden/2010/12/a_near_miss_for_the_north_sea.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 07 Dec 10 - 03:52 PM An interesting review, much the same data discussed in several reports. There seems to be blame affixing to all participants, but of course the operator was responsible. The report of the Committee will be eagerly awaited. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: gnu Date: 03 Mar 12 - 08:09 PM $7.8B US settlement. Enough? And, of course, add to that the cost of all the cruise missiles and deaths and such. Enjoy yer time at the gas pumps. Go BP... straight to hell. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Teribus Date: 04 Mar 12 - 03:28 AM Rather confusing post there gnu. What the hell has BP got to do with cruise missiles and the like. Particularly liked the last bit: "Go BP...straight to hell" How idiotic - if it did, what would go to hell would be the pensions and retirement funds of millions of people - or do subscribe to Little Hawks ludicrous comic book notion of big evil companies and corporations that are planning global domination and the enslavement and destruction of the human race. Court cases over this are not over by a long shot and the real culprits Halliburton and Transocean will be rightly brought to task. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 04 Mar 12 - 05:29 AM " ... or do [you] subscribe to Little Hawks ludicrous comic book notion of big evil companies and corporations that are planning global domination and the enslavement and destruction of the human race." No, Teribus, but I do subscribe to the FACT that "big evil corporations" are recklessly destroying the biosphere - which will lead, inevitably, to the destruction of the human race. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Stu Date: 04 Mar 12 - 07:03 AM "but I do subscribe to the FACT that "big evil corporations" are recklessly destroying the biosphere" Well, capitalism is utterly incapable, and probably uninterested in regulating itself, and concerns itself with making money for the few, at the expense of the many. It's ever been thus and ever will be. The whole system is short-termist and unsustainable. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: gnu Date: 04 Mar 12 - 08:16 AM "What the hell has BP got to do with cruise missiles and the like." The wars are NOT about oil? Hmmm... |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Teribus Date: 04 Mar 12 - 10:19 AM "The wars are NOT about oil?" Nope. "Well, capitalism is utterly incapable, and probably uninterested in regulating itself, and concerns itself with making money for the few, at the expense of the many. It's ever been thus and ever will be. The whole system is short-termist and unsustainable." Capitalism hasn't done so bad so far, and has proved to be a damn sight more durable than any socialist utopia promised by many and delivered by no-one. Ah "making money for the few at the expense of the many2 What complete and utter crap, i can almost hear the violins in the background. Go and find out who "owns" most of the shares in any company or on any stock market in the world - unions, pension funds and insurance companies. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 04 Mar 12 - 04:34 PM The usual cloud 13 lefties have entered this thread, and may ruin it as they have so many, cluttering it with nonsense. To the point, BP has a new guide boss for their exploration; we hope that they have learned their lesson. As briefly noted by Terribus, the well-being of BP affects a great many people, including most of those posting here, if they have savings in banks, pension funds, or stocks of the many companies that depend on the resource industry. Anyone who looks into the resource companies knows that profits are seldom more than the 10 percent that any business hopes for, the bulk of income used to pay stockholders, thousands of employees, operations, and a small bit set aside for future needs. (Odd, few attack the current biggies, Apple and the like) Oil is important, but it is impossible to make a logical case for the resource companies being responsible for wars and their bombs, etc. The progress of restitution for damages in the Gulf is only beginning; BP itself has set aside 20 billion and may have to add to that if the U. S. government exacts penalties, and settlements are made for loss of revenue due to environmental damage, and consequent decisions by vacationers and businessmen to look elsewhere for their needs and interests. Terribus strongly supports UK business and seems to have a special love for BP; the company has made mistakes and must pay for them. BP, however, will continue to be strong, and develop its potential in other energy sources as well as in petroleum. I have raised the terrible ire of Teribus at times, but with regard to the importance and continuation of the world's current system of capitalism, I agree with his views. Controls and improvements will always be needed, but reversion to some form of communal living is impossible. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 05 Mar 12 - 11:17 AM ""To the point, BP has a new guide boss for their exploration; we hope that they have learned their lesson."" Me too, and the lesson I hope they've learned is to ditch the US companies and make and fit their own blowout preventers and move the rigs using their own people. That way they'll only foot the bill for their own mistakes. Looks as though we were right and the US firms are skating out from under on a teflon sleigh. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,jts Date: 05 Mar 12 - 11:37 AM Q, "the bulk of income used to pay stockholders, thousands of employees, operations, and a small bit set aside for future needs." You list "paying stock holders" first. Are you totally ignorant of how corporate business works or are you deliberately attempting to mislead? Profits belong to the stock holders. Simply put. Revenue minus expenses equals the stockholders return on investment. Dividends and other forms of shareholder payout have to be counted as profit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Don Firth Date: 05 Mar 12 - 03:30 PM "...but it is impossible to make a logical case for the resource companies being responsible for wars...." ??????? Q, you're dealing in extremes, here. It's not "either / or." Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 05 Mar 12 - 03:41 PM Of course the stockholders gain dividends in a well-run corporation, the dividends determined by the board based on profit, and they are reported as profit. The other payments are included in gross income, but most will appear as expenses in the tax forms. Not sure what its is trying to quarrel about; I have been an infinitesimal stockholder in a number of corporations, and know that any dividend I receive is based on profit after expenses, but these expenses include money withheld for future use in exploration, perceived increases in expenses, additions to base, acquisitions, etc. I was merely trying to point out this fact to those who look at the gross income of a company and regard that with dismay. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: gnu Date: 06 Mar 12 - 03:49 PM I hope you didn't include me, Q. I know how companies finance. I know companies employ. Fact is, I only was making comment on the fact that "I" believe big oil starts wars with their own resources and relies on government(s) military resources to back them up. People die. Countless thousands in a decade or so. I've said it before on other threads, including this one, I think. BP took a hit in The Gulf. BP, who was just setting up operations in Libya, wanted to renegoiate the RECENT deal with Quackdaffy and he said no, so... BOOM. Of course, that was after BP pulled out it's employees. A buddy of mine was in charge of those operations. Last time I heard from him was to let me know he was home safe and sound... just down the road from you. I understand, to an uneducated extent, war and I believe it has three valid purposes. Ensuring future existence, culling the population, and opposing oppression (far too seldom on the last one). That does not mean I have to like war. Of course, I realize that my standard of living WAS won and continues to be sustained with the barrel of a gun and that I would much rather be on the team that wins. Still, to see the horror sickens me. Perhaps I am a hypocrite? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Teribus Date: 07 Mar 12 - 01:07 AM "BP took a hit in The Gulf. BP, who was just setting up operations in Libya, wanted to renegotiate the RECENT deal with Quackdaffy and he said no, so... BOOM. Of course, that was after BP pulled out it's employees." Ludicrous. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: gnu Date: 15 Nov 12 - 01:33 PM NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- BP announced Thursday it settled criminal charges with the U.S. government over the 2010 Deepwater Horizon oil spill for $4.5 billion. But that won't resolve some of the biggest liabilities still facing the company. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: kendall Date: 15 Nov 12 - 01:51 PM The cost of doing business (in a half assed way). |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Richard Bridge Date: 15 Nov 12 - 04:33 PM You can't fight a witchhunt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: gnu Date: 15 Nov 12 - 06:06 PM "Witchhunt"? Ain't which about which witch spiled the oil. If your neighbour pisses on your flowers and destroys them, he owes you for the flowers. BTW, you might think otherwise when all that piss starts fouling YOUR shoreline. It's on it's way. Just a matter of time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: ollaimh Date: 15 Nov 12 - 11:17 PM poor suffering british petroleum just pead guilty to many criminal offences and there are still pending charges against some company officers. there is still a civil lawsuit. its so terribel this holocoust against the down trodden britsh |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 16 Nov 12 - 10:17 PM There are still possible criminal charges against some BP individuals. Hang 'em high! |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Ron Davies Date: 16 Nov 12 - 10:31 PM It is is certainly interesting that Mr.Bridge has such a soft spot for this firm. Read "blind spot". So even those who love to wave the Marxist flag have an amazing liking for some of the biggest capitalists going. One might even think there was a bit of hypocrisy here. Nah, not a chance. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 17 Nov 12 - 03:04 PM BP has offshore interests in Arctic Canada. Their sloppy, cost-cutting practices are a worry to all of us in Canada. Our regulations are abysmal, worse that those applied by the U.S. agencies. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,999 Date: 17 Nov 12 - 04:12 PM Ditto what Q said. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: michaelr Date: 17 Nov 12 - 08:03 PM Witch hunt? Really? These fuckers fouled hundreds of miles of coastline, killed untold wildlife, and ruined the livelihoods of thousands of Gulf Coast fishermen and tourism providers and employees. Richard Bridge, you are an idiot. |
