Help: Brogue Dictionary Required

Subject: Brogue Dictionary Required
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 08:24 PM

I know that a lot of singers have trouble with older Irish and particularly Scottish songs because the version of the English language used is hard to decipher and/or pronounce. Is anyone aware of a concise book related to this, or a compendium within a publication? I'm not necessarily chasing a tome on this, but rather a folk-singers guide. While this may be heresy to some it would also enpower performers to communicate better with audiences - if they wish to modernise the lyrics that's their choice. Regards, John

Subject: RE: Help: Brogue Dictionary Required
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 08:34 PM

For Scots, Chambers Scots Dictionary is very useful.  Chambers 20th Century Dictionarycontains a lot of the same material.  It's always better to "translate" into a form a person is comfortable with rather than attempt to sing a song in a language or dialect that they don't really understand.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Help: Brogue Dictionary Required
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 08:48 PM

I agree Malcolm. That is very sound advice. Also you run the risk of offending Irish or Scottish members in your audience if they misunderstand your intent and believe you're making fun rather than music. The tomes Malcolm recommends should be more than adequate. However if you want to get a feel for it Robert Burns wrote in Highland dialect and his poetry should give you fair insight to the Scots dialect. For the irish side of things i recommend you listen to see what the Irish folk singers are doing. I particularily recommend Christy Moore's stuff It's available on Green Linnet Records or his earlier work when he sang with Planxty, Reguards Neil

Subject: RE: Help: Brogue Dictionary Required
From: pastorpest
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 10:29 PM

The Wordsworth Poetry Library's "The Works of Robert Burns" has an excellent 17 page glossary which has been adequate for me. The book which is usually inexpensive, I paid $5 Canadian, about $3 US, is a good reference for checking Burns lyrics as well.

Subject: RE: Help: Brogue Dictionary Required
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 01:38 AM

Thanks to Malcom, Neil and PP for the references. I haven't tried the dictionaries yet - I'm still having trouble locating the exact Burns boof as nominated by PP. Was the title you gave close enough to exact? Do you have an author/editor's name and/or publication date please. My serach through a couple of major libraries here has drawn a blank. Regards, John

Subject: RE: Help: Brogue Dictionary Required
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 08:18 AM

For more recent Scots songs I heartily recommend a Glasgow Glossary called "The Patter" by Michael Munro..

BTW... Burns wrote in the Scots language often known as "Lallans" - Lowlands - i.e. not Highlands...

It is often said that the English spoken in the Highlands is less dialectical than most places in the UK, largely because English was such a late arrival to the region..

I agree on the need for a concise glossary. There are some words that are no longer used in Scots, or specific words used to describe farming tools, or occupations that no longer exist.

If you need a specific word translated, try me...

Cheers M'Dears...

P.S. in recent Glasgow a Chanty is a chamberpot.. so a chantywrassler is someone who umm handles chamberpots a lot... StevenC

Subject: RE: Help: Brogue Dictionary Required
From: pastorpest
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 05:33 PM

Hi, John in Brisbane!

Book Title: The Works of Robert Burns

Published 1994 by Wordsworth Editions Ltd. Cumberland House, Crib Street, Ware, Hertfordshire SG12 9ET

ISBN 1-85326-415-6

I purchased the book at Chapters which has a near strangle hold, unfortuneately, on book sales in Canada. Best of luck in finding a copy: it should not be difficult.

Subject: RE: Help: Brogue Dictionary Required
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 18 Mar 00 - 07:12 AM

Thanks PP. Regards, John