Lyr Req: Siul a Ruin

Subject: sheet music for Suil a Ruin version in lord of td
From:
Date: 29 Aug 04 - 07:07 AM

I am planning my will and such, and would like to have a recording of me singing suil a ruin played at my funeral, but cannot find any sheet music for it. if you know where i can find this, i would be very grateful for your help.
thank you,
Mrs. Murphy

Subject: Lyr Add: JOHNNY IS GONE FOR A SOLDIER
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 10:04 AM

Mrs. Murphy: I've checked The Lester S. Levy Collection of Sheet Music and The Library of Congress American Memory Collection – usually the best sources for sheet music – but I've found only lyrics, not notes.

However, since I did find one version apparently not posted here before, I might as well post it for posterity:

Copied from http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/amss:@field(DOCID+@lit(as201910)) :

JOHNNY IS GONE FOR A SOLDIER

I'll trace these gardens o'er and o'er,
Meditate on each sweet flower,
Thinking of each happy hour.
Oh, Johnny is gone for a soldier.

CHORUS: Shool, Shool, Shool, agrah!
Time can only ease my woe,
Since the lad of my heart from me did go.
Oh, Johnny is gone for a soldier.

Some say my love is gone to France,
There his fortune to advance,
And if I find him, it's but a chance.
Oh, Johnny is gone for a soldier.

I'll sell my frock. I'll sell my wheel.
I'll by my love a sword of steel,
So in the battle he may reel.
Oh, Johnny is gone for a soldier.

I wish I was on yonder hill.
It's there I'd sit and cry my fill,
So every tear may turn a mill.
Oh, Johnny is gone for a soldier.

I'll dye my dress. I'll dye it red.
All over the world I'll beg my bread,
So my parents may think me dead.
Oh, Johnny is gone for a soldier.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Suil a Ruin
From:
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 08:29 PM

The version I learned in grade school should probably predate PP&M, but I am not sure. It would have been somewhere in the vicinity of 1960-1963.
Here I sit on Buttermilk Hill.
-------------- and cry my fill.
-----------------------------
Johnny's gone for a soldier.

Oh, my baby oh, my love,
Gone the rainbow gone the dove.
Your father was my only love.
Johnny's gone for a soldier.

Shool, shool shool aroon.
Shool a rack shack,
shool a bobba coo.
-------------------
Johnny's gone for a soldier.

There are some lines I can't remember and the rest is the recollection in my 50's of words I may have misinterpreted at 11 or 12. The word Buttermilk is what I remember, but may have been corrupted by later hearing the PP&M version. Does anyone esle remember this or any thing similar?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Suil a Ruin
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 09:59 PM

See the extensive list of links (top of the page) to other discussions here on the same subject. It's unlikely that there is anything new to add unless you can go back a century and more.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Suil a Ruin
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 10:37 PM

The Robert Louis Stevenson quotes mean little as the master of Ballantrae is from 1888. Well after the song became popular.
My own feelings are that it's a lovely, sentimental song written about the Napoleonics Wars. Going to France to seek one's fortune MAY be about the Wild Geese, but there are dozens of other, more likely possibilities. The Napoleonic Wars especially, as they were the most recent and vivid ones in people's imagination. Had been going on for generations. No need for historical convolutions like the Wild Geese, Jacobites or the Revolutionary War when the obvious stares you in the face.
Before anyone starts on about ordinary soldiers not carrying swords, take it as a bit of poetic licence.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Suil a Ruin
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 11:04 AM

I've looked through all of the threads on this song (I have to say, not terribly rigorously) and am amazed to find only one mention, of what I think to be, one of the greatest recordings of this song ever made: that of Elizabeth Cronin, of Macroom. Co. Cork, Ireland. This was made, in the early 1950s, by either Alan Lomax or Peter Kennedy (unfortunately, I've lost the notes to the record). The record is: The Folk Songs of Britain, Vol. 1: Songs of Courtship (Topic 12T157, 1968 - formerly issued by Caedmon Records, New York, 1961).
Mrs Cronin was very old when this recording was made, and the microphone had to be held very close to her lips, but her rendition of the song is beautiful and has haunted me for years.
I think that the recordings of Elizabeth Cronin may have been re-issued more recently than 1968, on CD (in Ireland?), but I don't have the details to hand.
If anyone has mentioned Mrs Cronin earlier, please accept my apologies and ignore this posting. On the other hand it may prompt someone to seek out the recordings of a truly great traditional singer and be inspired by them.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Suil a Ruin
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 02:17 PM

Is it on the Voice of the People perchance?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Suil a Ruin
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 02:39 PM

The Napoleonic Wars, as Le Scaramouche says, seems to be the logical origin of the lyrics. The first known printing, as noted by the late Bruce O near the beginning of this thread, is 1825.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Suil a Ruin
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 02:44 PM

It bugs me when people immediately assume that because her love has gone to France to seek his fortune he's with the Wild Geese.
Given the earliest date published, it's far more logical that he's a soldier fighting against Napoleon and company. Look at soldier songs from the same period, they use similar phrases.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Suil a Ruin
From: Willa
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 03:02 PM

Guest DB This link looks interesting http://www.mustrad.org.uk/articles/cronin.htm (Blickifier isn't working for me)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Suil a Gra
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 04:56 PM

Subject: Suil a Ruin / Shool Aroon / Shule Agra
From: Genie
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 05:35 AM

I'm wondering how the seeming nonsensical words used by PP& M (e.g., "shule a rack shack, shule a bobba coon") evolved from the original Gaelic words to Suil a Ruin or Suil Agra.    I can see how "suil" became "shool" of course, but there seem to be some missing links between the Gaelic versions posted here and the versions by PP&M, Chubby Parker, etc., that seem to use nonsense syllables in the chorus.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Suil a Ruin
From: GUEST,Celtic girl
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 09:22 PM

Here are the lyrics as I have them. This version either omits verses or others have been added later. As best as I can guess, the chorus (roughly translated into English) is "I wish, I wish, I wish in vain. I wish I had my heart again and vainly think I'd not complain". I read also that "Is go dté tú mo mhúirnín slán" means "And may you go safely my darling".


I wish I were on yonder hill
'Tis there I'd sit and cry my fill
'Til every tear would turn a mill
Is go dté tú mo mhúirnín slán

Chorus:
Siúil, siúil, siúil a rún
Siúil go sochair agus siúil go ciúin
Siúil go doras agus éalaigh liom
Is go dté tú mo mhúirnín slán

I'll sell my rock, I'll sell my reel
I'll sell my only spinning wheel
To buy my love a sword of steel         
Is go dté tú mo mhúirnín slán

Chorus

I'll dye my petticoats, I'll dye them red
And 'round the world I'll beg my bread
Until my parents shall wish me dead         
Is go dté tú mo mhúirnín slán

But now my love has gone to France
To try his fortune to advance
If he e'er comes back, 'tis but a chance         
Is go dté tú mo mhúirnín slán

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Suil a Ruin
From: Willa
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 02:46 PM

Celtic girl
see post from Philippa re chorus, Dec 03 (it's a long thread!)
Two extra verses I have:
I wish, I wish, I wish in vain.
Wish I had my heart again -
in vain,I think, I'd not complain
Is go dté tú mo mhúirnín slán

I sold my rock, sold my reel
Sold my only spinning wheel.
Now he's dead upon the field.
Is go dté tú mo mhúirnín slán

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Suil a Ruin
From: Suffet
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 10:13 PM

Greetings:

I just added a new anti-war song to my SoundClick music page. It gave it the poetic, symbolic title of Bring Our Soldiers Home, and I set it to the tune of Siúil a Rún, sometimes phonetically transliterated from the Gaelic as Shul Aroon. When you go to my SoundClick music page, it will be the first one at the top. You are welcome to listen to it on-line or download it for free. Here's a clickable link.

I drafted the song back in December. Joel Landy added the final verse, and Anne Price helped polish everything up. The three of us are therefore sharing the credit equally. Here are the words:

BRING OUR SOLDIERS HOME
Tune: Siúil a Rún (traditional)
New words: Steve Suffet, Joel Landy, and Anne Price ©2008

[Begin on chorus]
Home, home, bring our soldiers home.
When you stand for peace, you never stand alone.
Home, home, bring our soldiers home.
Let's bring our soldiers home,
From the army.

We shall not sit with tear drops in our eyes,
We shall not listen to their vicious lies,
We shall stand for peace, and we shall organize,
To bring our soldiers home,
From the army. [Repeat chorus]

We shall not bathe ourselves in bitter tears,
We shall not lose ourselves in darkest fears,
We shall stand up proud and fight the profiteers,
Let's bring our soldiers home,
From the army. [Repeat chorus]

We shall not lose when we are all as one,
And say forever that the war is done,
We shall save our every daughter and save our every son,
Let's bring our soldiers home,
From the army. [Repeat chorus twice]


With a little good luck, Bring Our Soldiers Home will soon be just a historic artifact. Let's hope so.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Suil a Ruin
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 01:28 PM

I've had a quick flick through this thread and nobody yet appears to have noted that at least 3 of the regular stanzas appeared on various Scottish broadsides of the 18thc century.
Rock and reel
Dye petticoats
Sad I sit on yonders hill
and should perhaps be considered as commonplaces/floaters. I f I remember rightly the last one is a commonplace even in Child ballads.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Suil a Ruin
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 14 Jul 09 - 08:33 PM

I was hoping to add this, but I see it's here. I found a nice version
of this song. The singer has a soft voice, and is playing the harp.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Suil a Ruin
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 14 Jul 09 - 08:33 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMROre57y18&feature=related

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Suil a Ruin
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 01:32 PM

Click here for an interesting article on one version of this song.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Suil a Ruin
From: MartinRyan
Date: 30 May 11 - 06:54 AM

Philippa's version consists of three verses from the five given in Clandillon's Songs of the Irish Gaels, rendered in modern irish spelling and script and with some small changes of angle i.e. use of second person where the other uses third etc.

The notes in the text are slightly confusing but imply that these are "Dr. Douglas Hyde's Gaelic words" i.e. that Hyde collected this set. I'll check later.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Suil a Ruin
From: MartinRyan
Date: 30 May 11 - 03:46 PM

In fact, it appears that what happened in Ireland is that the poet A P Graves published a collated version of the existing macaronic song, towards the end of the 19th C. The collector, poet and folklorist Douglas Hyde then produced a (loose) metrical translation into Irish - which became independently popular.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Siul a Ruin
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 06:05 AM

did you get any more info re Hyde, Martin? And I'd like to see the additional two verses from Clandillon (or from Hyde)

People are saying there is no proof that the song was sung in Ireland before the 19th century and that it may refer to the Napoleonic wars rather than the Wild Geese. Well, in Irish the song does refer to "d'imigh na géanna", the geese are gone. Admittedly a song may refer to something that happened well before the song was composed (whether we are talking about Wild Geese from Ireland or Buttermilk Hill and the American Revolution). From what I read on this discussion thread, the 19th century broadsides show that by then the song was widely disseminated in English language version in the British Isles. So it may have been sung in Irish for some time previously.

Buttermilk Hill was indeed the site of a battle in the American War of Independence according to this article about Early Pocantico History

My owm theory is that the song was brought to America by immigrants both before AND after the Irish famine, and disseminated from more than one immigrant source.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Siul a Ruin
From: MartinRyan
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 06:19 AM

Hi Philippa

I'll dig out Clandillon's book (Hmmmm.... Wonder if it's online at this stage?) and transcribe his verses.

Not sure where I picked up the info about Hyde's involvement - I'll try to check back.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Siul a Ruin
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 06:53 PM

reminder to Martin Ryan re Clandillon query

also question for Art Thieme: is the Chubby Parker version recognisably related to Siúl a Rúin or is it only your adaptation with verses from Buttermilk Hill (or Butternut Hill)that is similar to the Irish song?
I haven't heard the Parker song yet. The versions I know of Siúl A Ghrá, Siúl a Rúin and Buttermilk Hill/Johnny has gone for a Soldier all have fairly similar albeit not identical airs.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Siul a Ruin
From: MartinRyan
Date: 01 Mar 12 - 03:22 AM

Philippa

Apologies for the delay! The book is now precariously perched on my desk, open at the correct page - I'll transcribe or scan it later today. I promise! ;>)>

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Siul a Ruin
From: MartinRyan
Date: 01 Mar 12 - 04:04 AM

OK. Here is the text in Clandillon/Hannagan's book, including the note:

----------------------------------------------
SIUBHAL A GHRADH.
(SHULE A GRÁ.)
I
Oh bouchal mine, my heart you charm,
Your love was kind, your kiss was warm,
I'd wish to shield thee from all harm
Iss go day thoo avourneen slawn !*

Shule, Shule Shule a ghra,
Only death can heal my woe,
Since the boy of my heart from me did go,
Iss go day thoo avourneen dawn.


II.
' Twas often he'd court me on his knee,
And tales of love he'd tell to me,
But now my love is o'er the sea,
Iss go day thoo avourneen dawn.

Shule, Shule, etc.

III.
I'd sell my rock, I'd sell my reel,
I'd sell my only spinning wheel,
To buy my love a sword of steel
Iss go day thoo avourneenn dawn.

Shule, Shule, etc.

IV.
King James was routed in the fray
The " wild-geese" went with him away,
My boy went too, that dreary day
Iss go day thoo avourneen dawn.

Shine, Shule, etc.

* Iss go day, etc. : May you go, my love, in safety
! Shule a ghra: Come, beloved.

NOTE:
This Waterford version of Siubhal a Ghradh has never been published. It was usually sung in English to "I wish I were on yonder Hill". I have sung it repeatedly using Dr. Hyde's Gaelic words, to which it is here set. This version is major. Two minor variants have been published. Both in the lah mode. My mother used to sing this air to the English Words.

M ni A (Mairead ní Annagain)

------------------------------------------
Looking back at the thread, the GAELIC version in Clandillon appears to be the "Hyde version" referred to earlier. I'll follow that up also ...... eventually!

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Siul a Ruin
From: MartinRyan
Date: 01 Mar 12 - 04:38 AM

A quick glance at the five verse GAELIC set in Clandillon (Hyde's set as described in the note) suggests that Philippa's version from Risteard MacGabhann (1998) is a subset of Hyde, with minor changes. I'll transcribe it all .... eventually (tá sé sa sean-chló!).

Regards

p.s. Of course, now we need to find out where Clandillon's ENGLISH words came from! The note appears to refer to the tune?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Siul a Ruin
From: Felipa
Date: 02 Mar 12 - 08:05 AM

Chubby Parker doesn't have verses related to Siúl a rúin
I can't make out the nonsense third line of his chorus, it's not what Art Thieme sings about finding a pretty bobolink. Maybe someone with better ears or better headphones could transcribe the chorus for Mudcat
enjoyable listening at http://www.archive.org/details/ChubbyParker-01-20

and can anyone find us the tune to this Missouri version of Siúl a rúin/ shule aroon with nonsense chorus?:
@displaysong.cfm?SongID=5315?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Siul a Ruin
From: MartinRyan
Date: 02 Mar 12 - 11:19 AM

Here's the Gaeilge version in Clandillon:
------------------------------------------

A bhuachaillín aobhínn alainn óg
Ba leathan do chroí, ba dheas do phóg
Mo léangan mise leat féin go deo
Is go dté tú a mhúirnín slán

chorus:
Siúl,Siúl,Siúl a ghrá
Níl leigheas ar fáil ach leigheas an bháis
Ó d'fhag tú mise is bocht mo chás
Is go dté tú a mhúirnín slán


Is minic do bhréag sé mé ar a ghlúin
Ag cur a scéal dom féin in iúl
Ach chaill mé é agusé mo rún
Is go dté tú a mhúirnín slán

Do shníomh mé líon is díol mé é
Is dhíol mé dhó mo thúirnín féin
'S cheannaigh mé claidheamh do ghrá mo chléibh
Is go dté tú a mhúirnín slán

Ach, chuireadh ar Rí Shéamais ruaig
Is d'imigh na géanna leis ar luais
Is d'imigh mo bhuachaill leo, mo nuar
Ó go dté tú a mhúirnín slán

Do shuí mé síos ar thulaigh mhóir
Ag dearcadh ar a loing fé sheól
D'iompóinn muileann le gach deór
Is go dté tú a mhúirnín slán

-----------------------------------------------

I've roughly modernised the spelling on-the-fly.

Regards

Ref.:
"Londubh an Chairn"
being
Songs of the Irish Gaels
in staff and sol-da
With English Metrical Translations

Edited by
Maighread ni Annagain agus Seamus de Chlanndiolúin
(1927)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Siul a Ruin
From: MartinRyan
Date: 04 Mar 12 - 04:30 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Siul a Ruin
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 12 - 05:08 PM

I'm wondering about that red-dyed petticoat. Just as, you know, a fashion choice, it doesn't make sense to buy dye when you've sold everything else for your soldier-boy. ;)

I haven't done my research (sorry!) but I'd expect normally expect it to be a badge of prostitution - both as advertising and because many cities/cultures required all prostitutes to wear some kind of clear token, like red shoes or a yellow hat or whatever, both to mark their shame and to help the guys find the pros without accidentally waylaying honest women by mistake.

And prostitution would shame and horrify one's parents more than begging would.

Or am I wrong and it's just a way to fill out a rhyming line?

--Nonie

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Siul a Ruin
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 07 Aug 20 - 08:37 AM

Lengthy essay on this song at, of all places, chess.com: https://www.chess.com/blog/batgirl/johnny-has-gone-for-a-soldier
I don't know how long it will be there.